Reading about the investigation into a possibly fake Black Lotus got me thinking: Why exactly is the Black Lotus one of the most valuable cards in MTG? And what other cards are one the same level value-wise?
Scarity, Power Level, Goes into virtually any deck.
It was only printed in Alpha, Beta & Unlimited sets. (& Collectors/International Editions) Two of these, A & B are probably the lowest print runs of any set ever. Very old very few copies floating around..now more than ever (age). They will almost certainly NEVER print any more of them. So, supply only goes down over time = price goes up over time.
It costs and gives you a virtual 3-turn head start on an opponent. It does all this potentially on Turn 1. Powerful. Any deck, that's powerful.
It is colorless and goes into any deck you could build.
There are some cards that are more valuable. I think all of them are just on scarcity basis though, not power level.
Supply is limited, and it's busted all to hell. It would be hard to find a deck worse for including it. Imagine it in recent decks. Turn one Nocturnus seems good. Turn one JTMS seems good.
I have one and it's not even Type 1 legal, being a Collector's Edition one.
I wanted it for, as you say, collectability. This is 'the' acquisition that completes a collection habit. Often, that habit spans over a decade, and hundreds of secondary market purchases or trades. It feels like a 'summit' has been reached, even if you still have a ways to go, collection-wise.
I also wanted it for sheer power reasons. I like building powerful decks and this card is just totally dumb, power-wise. Almost anyone who plays this game for a long time gets around to building 'that one deck' that you keep squirreled away to absolutely crush any and all comers. For those players, here's a card that takes that deck (any of them, mind you) and basically straps a booster rocket on the side.
Card damage? Easy..I double-sleeve and I refuse to play with drinks on the table anyway. (So should everyone, honestly.)
Another reason to buy one is concentration of the value of your collection. When it comes time to liquidate one's collection, would you prefer to sell (list, package, ship) hundreds, maybe thousands, of low-dollar stuff or just one HUGELY valuable one? The logistics are entirely different. I converted a few 5-row boxes worth of bulk into the money to pay for my CE Black Lotus and I will never regret it. I'm still kinda stunned I could actually do that. You can keep the weight, I'll take the Lotus.
There was a time long long ago when the most expensive card was the Shivan Dragon. True story. I don't remember which price guide but I remember thinking that you had to be crazy to pay more than 30 dollars for a Magic card.
Of course it only took a matter of weeks before enough people figured out that there were better cards to correct the market values.
It is colorless and goes into any deck you could build.
^This nailed it.
It is hard to imagine a deck that is not made better with the inclusion of a Black Lotus. It works for every color and accelerates any deck to a ridiculous degree. It belongs in every deck it is legal in ever. This is the main reason. Even the entire rest of the P9 is color specific.
This article lists some of the rarest cards in MtG.
Black Lotus is #10 on that list.
The problem with this is that BL is exactly as rare as a slew of other ABU rare cards that are nowhere near close to the same value such as Natural Selection (about $40 for Beta). All of the other cards on there only exist in dozens or hundreds of copies. There were over 20,000 tournament legal lotuses printed. 4,300 if you only count Alpha/Beta. It doesn't belong on that list. I can think of dozens of better examples. It is only up there because of its value.
The problem with this is that BL is exactly as rare as a slew of other ABU rare cards that are nowhere near close to the same value such as Natural Selection (about $40 for Beta). All of the other cards on there only exist in dozens or hundreds of copies. There were over 20,000 tournament legal lotuses printed. 4,300 if you only count Alpha/Beta. It doesn't belong on that list. I can think of dozens of better examples. It is only up there because of its value.
I think it's more fun to compare it to Chaoslace from Beta. SCG sells NM/M Beta Chaoslace for $9.99, and NM/M Beta Black Lotus for $3499.99.
And while the Black Lotus is certainly the most expensive tournament legal card that is not a misprint (I'm looking at you, Blue Hurricane!), it is not the most powerful. The Moxen are arguable more powerful than the Lotus due to multiple uses, Time Vault is definitely more powerful since it generates infinite turns (with Voltaic Key or Tezzeret the Seeker), and Yawgmoth's Will didn't get the nickname Yawgmoth's Win for no reason. In fact, after the first few turns of the game...the Lotus is often a dead draw (except in a few corner cases, which I've had happen to me [seriously] only once or twice in all the years I've played Vintage).
I was driven from this once-great site by abusive mods and admins, who create rules out of thin air to punish people for breaking them (meaning the rule does not exist under forum rules) and selectively enforce the rules that are written on the forum rules. I am currently lurking while deleting 6 years and 2 months of posting history. I will return when ExpiredRascals, Teia Rabishu and Blinking Spirit are no longer in power.
I think it's more fun to compare it to Chaoslace from Beta. SCG sells NM/M Beta Chaoslace for $9.99, and NM/M Beta Black Lotus for $3499.99.
Lol. I would but Chaoslace was also printed in Revised and I wanted to draw an exact comparison to the total card availability. I'm sure that even if the laces weren't given that extra print it wouldn't affect much though. However, check what scarcity has done to the Alpha value of laces. If you want that Chaoslace to have slightly more rounded corners, SCG sells Alphas in NM for $100 and they are out of stock.
It's that value because of the short printings for Alpha/Beta/Unlimited. It's also a collector's item more than for its playability.
Harping on how great it is for game play is kind of pointless.
How many sanctioned formats is it legal in that WotC supports? None you say? Except the one Vintage tournament they run at Gen Con.
Other than that it is just a collector's piece. It's certainly not priced at that because it's good in casual play (c'mon!).
I think a lot of folks would back me up here when I say that Vintage is bigger than you think. Certainly the scarcity adds to the value but the demand isn't due just to collectors. Check the price for Bazaar of Baghdad, it is used in Vintage alone (banned in Legacy) and was a $5 rare before the archetype came along. It's not highly collectable, it only maintains its value because it is used in Vintage/Casual.
1: Collectors. If you want to collect complete sets, you will need 3.
2: Vintage players. If you want to play real vintage tournaments (they exist, its rumored!), you will need 1.
3: Some people can "just afford" to buy things like this.
4: The act of owning something rare.
Also the fact there are only 5000 or so tournament-legal ones makes it cost more. Also, the condition can play a role also. Finding a beat-to-hell unlimited Lotus that is playable in a sleeve (or 2) will cost so much less than a graded Alpha Black Lotus.
Rarity, thats about it. There aren't very many of them. It's not the rarest or even the best/most powerful card (Ancestral Recall, Yawgmoth's Will, Mox Sapphire, Mana Crypt) but it's symbolic of what magic used to be.
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Standard:
Bident Layers B Devotion RG Devotion UW Control Modern:
Jund
UW Control
Combo Pod Legacy: DeathBlade RUG Delver BUG Control
Also the fact there are only 5000 or so tournament-legal ones makes it cost more.
Despite the fact that actual print run information was not released for Unlimited, I believe it is estimated that there are upwards of 20,000 tournament-legal Black Lotuses printed. Naturally, that number is much smaller today. But if you go to any given Grand Prix, even a Standard or Limited one, you can find a hundred or so Black Lotuses in dealer cases despite Vintage not being a GP format (Oh, how I wish it was...I'd travel around the world for a Vintage GP).
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Despite the fact that actual print run information was not released for Unlimited, I believe it is estimated that there are upwards of 20,000 tournament-legal Black Lotuses printed. Naturally, that number is much smaller today. But if you go to any given Grand Prix, even a Standard or Limited one, you can find a hundred or so Black Lotuses in dealer cases despite Vintage not being a GP format (Oh, how I wish it was...I'd travel around the world for a Vintage GP).
Actual print information was released for every set through Ice Age including Unlimited.
Here are the numbers:
40 million Unlimited cards were printed. 33% starter decks, 67% booster packs.
18,500 per rare
68,000 per uncommon
244,500 per common
872,500 per land (per picture)
I think that this question can also be approached from another perspective: Why are some people ready to pay such exorbitant sums for this card? (After all, if nobody ever bought this card, it would make no sense to sell it for hundreds, if not even thousands of dollars.)
The only tournament format where this card is legal is vintage, and even there it's restricted to one per deck. In all other tournament formats it's banned, and hence unusable.
As for casual games, why would you want to use a thousand-dollar card in a casual deck (not to talk about using four of them, which would make the most sense)? Imagine something happened to your thousand-dollar card when playing with friends (or especially with strangers).
Of course someone could want to test with proxy cards to see how they can make the deck work, but proxies do not cost hundreds of dollars. Thus why would you spend hundreds of dollars on a card that you can't use in tournaments (with the exception of vintage, where its usability is limited), nor would you usually dare to use in casual.
Of course the answer that makes most sense is: Collector value. It's the same reason why people buy rare stamps, coins and other unusable paraphernalia for exorbitant sums of money.
Last sentence. I would think that the majority of people interested in the lotus would be guys like me that started when the game came out, enjoy the old cards and enjoy the art work as well.
Most of the new players have never seen one but heard about it. They have no need for it. If they find out you have one they ask to see it, look at it with the eyes of amazement and say, "wow!". Almost instantly after seeing it then It's back to playing magic and it wouldn't cross their mind again except maybe in a passing conversation later on. That and the vast majority of newer players can't justify trying to buy one card worth 1000+ bucks then only to find they need to drop another 3000+ on the rest of the 9 then 2500+ bucks on duals and finally thousands more on vintage staples. It's a never ending cycle that requires a very long term commitment, a simple desire to have them and/or a regret free check book I.e a wife that won't beat you for spending that kind of money on paper and not on her.
Despite the fact that actual print run information was not released for Unlimited, I believe it is estimated that there are upwards of 20,000 tournament-legal Black Lotuses printed. Naturally, that number is much smaller today. But if you go to any given Grand Prix, even a Standard or Limited one, you can find a hundred or so Black Lotuses in dealer cases despite Vintage not being a GP format (Oh, how I wish it was...I'd travel around the world for a Vintage GP).
I bought my black lotus at a GP... I believe there were about 4 total in all the dealers cases.
I bought my black lotus at a GP... I believe there were about 4 total in all the dealers cases.
I just got back from GP: Columbus (Modern this time), and I probably saw a good 30-40 Black Lotuses in all the vendor cases combined. And I remember back at the 2010 GP: Columbus (Legacy that time), SCG alone had a stack of at least 30 in their case, and another 30 or so across all the other vendors.
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I was driven from this once-great site by abusive mods and admins, who create rules out of thin air to punish people for breaking them (meaning the rule does not exist under forum rules) and selectively enforce the rules that are written on the forum rules. I am currently lurking while deleting 6 years and 2 months of posting history. I will return when ExpiredRascals, Teia Rabishu and Blinking Spirit are no longer in power.
I just got back from GP: Columbus (Modern this time), and I probably saw a good 30-40 Black Lotuses in all the vendor cases combined. And I remember back at the 2010 GP: Columbus (Legacy that time), SCG alone had a stack of at least 30 in their case, and another 30 or so across all the other vendors.
Solaran, how goes the P(ony)9? I hadn't seen any posts in the pimp thread in a while.
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Currently Playing: Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me! Legacy: RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R RGBelcherRG WSoldier StompyW BReanimatorB EDH: BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
Solaran, how goes the P(ony)9? I hadn't seen any posts in the pimp thread in a while.
They're done. Now I'm working on Guru Unlimited Duals and Four Seasons of Workshops. And then perhaps a backup set of Power Nine in case a hater convinces the judges at Worlds they are too altered - a Beta backup set, naturally.
My avatar is a cropped scan of the Lotus.
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I was driven from this once-great site by abusive mods and admins, who create rules out of thin air to punish people for breaking them (meaning the rule does not exist under forum rules) and selectively enforce the rules that are written on the forum rules. I am currently lurking while deleting 6 years and 2 months of posting history. I will return when ExpiredRascals, Teia Rabishu and Blinking Spirit are no longer in power.
It was only printed in Alpha, Beta & Unlimited sets. (& Collectors/International Editions) Two of these, A & B are probably the lowest print runs of any set ever. Very old very few copies floating around..now more than ever (age). They will almost certainly NEVER print any more of them. So, supply only goes down over time = price goes up over time.
It costs and gives you a virtual 3-turn head start on an opponent. It does all this potentially on Turn 1. Powerful. Any deck, that's powerful.
It is colorless and goes into any deck you could build.
There are some cards that are more valuable. I think all of them are just on scarcity basis though, not power level.
Fully-powered 600-Card "Dream Cube" https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/dreamcube
450-Card "Artificer's Cube" https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/artificer
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Black Lotus is #10 on that list.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
Demand will always exceed supply.
Easy..it's fun.
I have one and it's not even Type 1 legal, being a Collector's Edition one.
I wanted it for, as you say, collectability. This is 'the' acquisition that completes a collection habit. Often, that habit spans over a decade, and hundreds of secondary market purchases or trades. It feels like a 'summit' has been reached, even if you still have a ways to go, collection-wise.
I also wanted it for sheer power reasons. I like building powerful decks and this card is just totally dumb, power-wise. Almost anyone who plays this game for a long time gets around to building 'that one deck' that you keep squirreled away to absolutely crush any and all comers. For those players, here's a card that takes that deck (any of them, mind you) and basically straps a booster rocket on the side.
Card damage? Easy..I double-sleeve and I refuse to play with drinks on the table anyway. (So should everyone, honestly.)
Another reason to buy one is concentration of the value of your collection. When it comes time to liquidate one's collection, would you prefer to sell (list, package, ship) hundreds, maybe thousands, of low-dollar stuff or just one HUGELY valuable one? The logistics are entirely different. I converted a few 5-row boxes worth of bulk into the money to pay for my CE Black Lotus and I will never regret it. I'm still kinda stunned I could actually do that. You can keep the weight, I'll take the Lotus.
Fully-powered 600-Card "Dream Cube" https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/dreamcube
450-Card "Artificer's Cube" https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/artificer
Cubing in Indianapolis...send me a PM!!
Of course it only took a matter of weeks before enough people figured out that there were better cards to correct the market values.
They are MTG's Honus Wagner.
I can make signatures
@Warp: I'm delighted at the discussion this post has generated!
^This nailed it.
It is hard to imagine a deck that is not made better with the inclusion of a Black Lotus. It works for every color and accelerates any deck to a ridiculous degree. It belongs in every deck it is legal in ever. This is the main reason. Even the entire rest of the P9 is color specific.
The problem with this is that BL is exactly as rare as a slew of other ABU rare cards that are nowhere near close to the same value such as Natural Selection (about $40 for Beta). All of the other cards on there only exist in dozens or hundreds of copies. There were over 20,000 tournament legal lotuses printed. 4,300 if you only count Alpha/Beta. It doesn't belong on that list. I can think of dozens of better examples. It is only up there because of its value.
There are more tournament legal Black Lotus in the world than Wood Elementals. FACT.
Every English card ever printed: 99.02%
Arabian Nights through Lorwyn: Complete
Alpha: 94.2% Beta: 95.0%
Unlimited through M10: Complete
Harping on how great it is for game play is kind of pointless.
How many sanctioned formats is it legal in that WotC supports? None you say? Except the one Vintage tournament they run at Gen Con.
Other than that it is just a collector's piece. It's certainly not priced at that because it's good in casual play (c'mon!).
I think it's more fun to compare it to Chaoslace from Beta. SCG sells NM/M Beta Chaoslace for $9.99, and NM/M Beta Black Lotus for $3499.99.
And while the Black Lotus is certainly the most expensive tournament legal card that is not a misprint (I'm looking at you, Blue Hurricane!), it is not the most powerful. The Moxen are arguable more powerful than the Lotus due to multiple uses, Time Vault is definitely more powerful since it generates infinite turns (with Voltaic Key or Tezzeret the Seeker), and Yawgmoth's Will didn't get the nickname Yawgmoth's Win for no reason. In fact, after the first few turns of the game...the Lotus is often a dead draw (except in a few corner cases, which I've had happen to me [seriously] only once or twice in all the years I've played Vintage).
Lol. I would but Chaoslace was also printed in Revised and I wanted to draw an exact comparison to the total card availability. I'm sure that even if the laces weren't given that extra print it wouldn't affect much though. However, check what scarcity has done to the Alpha value of laces. If you want that Chaoslace to have slightly more rounded corners, SCG sells Alphas in NM for $100 and they are out of stock.
I think a lot of folks would back me up here when I say that Vintage is bigger than you think. Certainly the scarcity adds to the value but the demand isn't due just to collectors. Check the price for Bazaar of Baghdad, it is used in Vintage alone (banned in Legacy) and was a $5 rare before the archetype came along. It's not highly collectable, it only maintains its value because it is used in Vintage/Casual.
Every English card ever printed: 99.02%
Arabian Nights through Lorwyn: Complete
Alpha: 94.2% Beta: 95.0%
Unlimited through M10: Complete
2: Vintage players. If you want to play real vintage tournaments (they exist, its rumored!), you will need 1.
3: Some people can "just afford" to buy things like this.
4: The act of owning something rare.
Also the fact there are only 5000 or so tournament-legal ones makes it cost more. Also, the condition can play a role also. Finding a beat-to-hell unlimited Lotus that is playable in a sleeve (or 2) will cost so much less than a graded Alpha Black Lotus.
WBG Karador GBW
R Daretti R
RG Omnath GR
WRG Modern Burn GRW
WB Modern Tokens BW
DCI Rules Advisor as of 5/18/2015
Bident Layers
B Devotion
RG Devotion
UW Control
Modern:
Jund
UW Control
Combo Pod
Legacy:
DeathBlade
RUG Delver
BUG Control
Despite the fact that actual print run information was not released for Unlimited, I believe it is estimated that there are upwards of 20,000 tournament-legal Black Lotuses printed. Naturally, that number is much smaller today. But if you go to any given Grand Prix, even a Standard or Limited one, you can find a hundred or so Black Lotuses in dealer cases despite Vintage not being a GP format (Oh, how I wish it was...I'd travel around the world for a Vintage GP).
I bet a significant % are sitting in landfills now.
Fully-powered 600-Card "Dream Cube" https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/dreamcube
450-Card "Artificer's Cube" https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/artificer
Cubing in Indianapolis...send me a PM!!
You're a tad off. 22,800 is the actual figure of tournament-legal Black Lotus printed.
Actual print information was released for every set through Ice Age including Unlimited.
Here are the numbers:
40 million Unlimited cards were printed. 33% starter decks, 67% booster packs.
18,500 per rare
68,000 per uncommon
244,500 per common
872,500 per land (per picture)
Every English card ever printed: 99.02%
Arabian Nights through Lorwyn: Complete
Alpha: 94.2% Beta: 95.0%
Unlimited through M10: Complete
Last sentence. I would think that the majority of people interested in the lotus would be guys like me that started when the game came out, enjoy the old cards and enjoy the art work as well.
Most of the new players have never seen one but heard about it. They have no need for it. If they find out you have one they ask to see it, look at it with the eyes of amazement and say, "wow!". Almost instantly after seeing it then It's back to playing magic and it wouldn't cross their mind again except maybe in a passing conversation later on. That and the vast majority of newer players can't justify trying to buy one card worth 1000+ bucks then only to find they need to drop another 3000+ on the rest of the 9 then 2500+ bucks on duals and finally thousands more on vintage staples. It's a never ending cycle that requires a very long term commitment, a simple desire to have them and/or a regret free check book I.e a wife that won't beat you for spending that kind of money on paper and not on her.
I bought my black lotus at a GP... I believe there were about 4 total in all the dealers cases.
I just got back from GP: Columbus (Modern this time), and I probably saw a good 30-40 Black Lotuses in all the vendor cases combined. And I remember back at the 2010 GP: Columbus (Legacy that time), SCG alone had a stack of at least 30 in their case, and another 30 or so across all the other vendors.
Solaran, how goes the P(ony)9? I hadn't seen any posts in the pimp thread in a while.
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me!
Legacy:
RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R
RGBelcherRG
WSoldier StompyW
BReanimatorB
EDH:
BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB
BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
How much did you pay, if you don't mind sharing?
They're done. Now I'm working on Guru Unlimited Duals and Four Seasons of Workshops. And then perhaps a backup set of Power Nine in case a hater convinces the judges at Worlds they are too altered - a Beta backup set, naturally.
My avatar is a cropped scan of the Lotus.
1. It's perceived to the best Magic card ever printed.
2. It's among the rarest cards ever printed.
That's it!
About (1), perception isn't far from reality. There are very few cards that can claim to hold this title.