I was wondering, if Karn hits the table, is it better to use his -3 ability or to use his +4 ability?
If I use his +4 the opponent will have to find a way to deal 10 damage to get him out of board, but the profit might be nos as good if the opponent has an instant or sorcery spell in his hand, while if he starts to clean the table, exiling the opponets bigger threat with the -3, Karn will be within lightning bolt reach.
I think it really depends on your situation, a lot of the time when I see Karn used they use his -3 before his +4.
these are people acting out of desperation, obviously if something is going to kill you then you need to use the -3 first to remove it. in a even board there is not reason to use the -3 first, unless your swinging for the win.
"I would imagine the most common lines will be the following:
If they have one creature, exile it, get up, and do a victory lap. The game is yours!
If they have multiple guys and you have sufficient blockers, kill their best guy. They better have removal or they are dead.
If they have multiple guys and you don’t have blockers, but their power doesn’t add up to 10, +4 Karn. Not the ideal situation, but still decent.
If they have a bunch of guys you can’t stop, 10+ power, kill their best guy and use Karn to gain a few life. You sound behind; try and do better next time."
Whenever I use it, it's usually the -3 for removal, then proliferate enough to keep it constantly going like that. Rarely do I do the +4 and I have yet to do the ultimate.
I think the best way to use Karn is probably when someone knocks themselves down a few pegs (life) and then uses Soul Conduit. If you manage to survive, then you can just use his ultimate. I'm sure that'd peeve a few people off.
I would toss a few big baddies in your deck to use his +4 on yourself. Jin-Gitaxias and many others would work fantistically.
His ultimate is not something to be worked up to use on your own cards, its just a bad strategy, especially if he gets removed. If his ultimate is ever able to be used you're usually in a good enough situation already that it doesn't matter.
His ultimate is not something to be worked up to use on your own cards, its just a bad strategy, especially if he gets removed. If his ultimate is ever able to be used you're usually in a good enough situation already that it doesn't matter.
Why wouldn't you want to use your own cards? Why not use his ultimate the 3rd turn he's out? If he wasn't meant to be used this way they would have printed "opponent" and not "player" in his first ability.
If you can protect him for 2 turns and exile 2 great cards from your hand you've got the game. OR you can try to protect him for many more turns, like everyone else is suggesting, and hope he doesn't die AND your opponent is going to exile good cards from his or her hand and have great permanents out that he or she isn't going to protect...Hhhmmm! Yeah, the prior looks better than the latter.
Starting a new game the 3rd turn he's out with Praetor(s) and or (an) Eldrazi(s) sounds great to me!
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I would toss a few big baddies in your deck to use his +4 on yourself. Jin-Gitaxias and many others would work fantistically.
I wouldn´t build a deck around exiling my own cards, It is too much a risk, and too late game (Karn costs 7 to get down and only three turns later i would be able to ultimate him) but if i gitaxian probe the opponent and find out that it is better tio exile one land of mine rather than a preordain from him i would without a doubt.
these are people acting out of desperation, obviously if something is going to kill you then you need to use the -3 first to remove it. in a even board there is not reason to use the -3 first, unless your swinging for the win.
Isn't Karn just a win-more in any other situation? I can't imagine doing anything other than using his -3 over and over until you win.
when i use Karn i go Up,Up,down,down,left,right,left,right,B,A, select,start. gain infinite life, and go from there.
Stolen.
As far as Karn is concerned you almost always want to use the +4. If his -3 is the only way out for you to avoid losing then you should do something else with 7 mana.
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On the note of how to actually play Karn it all comes down to what the board state is. I played against 1 person in sealed, who got karn up to 16 and didnt want to restart the game. despite it probably winning him the game. His reasoning that it would more than likely push the game to time, and his general disapproval of the cards ability.
In the end i finally played through his karn despite having the same sort of situation you get when a Jace 2.0 is fatesealing you and you have no cards in hand.
Bottom line, don't be afraid to try and go for the restart. if your opp. only has 1 card in hand. you should probably exile it because it just might be their out. and if they only have 1 creature you should probably exile it.
Honestly I think Karn will see the best play right after a wrath, or just before an All is dust.
By using his +4, you just forced your opponent to dedicate all his resources to Karn to prevent a game reset. So while they spend turn after turn hopelessly sending all thier creatures at Karn, you just keep taking turns and drawing cards and setting up your win. Seriously, once Karn hits and yo ustart +4'ing, it;s going to feel like you are goldfishing, your opponent will bo doing nothing to you. Then you can see what is getting exiled and decide if you want to reboot and win or just win in the current game.
The only reason to use his -3 is if they have something that's going to kill you next turn.
While there have been several arguments for both sides, the best I can say is it depends on the situation.
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Last night I was playing a draft and I played Karn when I was behind, +4-ing him to exile Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger. In retrospect, I shouldn't have done that and just dropped him next turn, but the psychological effect that potentially restarting the game with a HUGE threat forces some players to do strange things.
Despite the fact that my opponent could have likely killed me by chipping away with infect, he dedicated all of his resources to getting rid of Karn, and then scooped when he realized he wasn't going to kill him if I kept +4-inghim, and I was going to get my restart eventually. I'll admit that I probably could have played Karn better, but I was so enamored with the idea of restarting the game that I just went for it.
Whether or not you think its constructed playable, its a hell of a lot of fun to play with!
Despite the fact that my opponent could have likely killed me by chipping away with infect, he dedicated all of his resources to getting rid of Karn, and then scooped when he realized he wasn't going to kill him if I kept +4-inghim, and I was going to get my restart eventually. I'll admit that I probably could have played Karn better, but I was so enamored with the idea of restarting the game that I just went for it.
Just like I said. The specter of his ultimate is so powerful, after you drop him, it's almost always the game, even if you never use it.
It seems like you're not taking this for serious, so I might explain this a little further.
Let's say you want to use Karn to exile your own fatties from your hand. That means first of all, you have to pack Karn and a bunch of fatties in your deck which is a bad idea in the first place since you might end up with Karn, an Eldrazi and 2 of the Praetors and 3 lands for example in your opening 7 more often than not. It will result in lots of mulligans for you due to unplayable hands. Because if you're not packing all this stuff in your deck together, it's very unlikely that you even draw Karn and 2-3 other fatties in a timely manner.
Now being a little more optimistic, let's say you manage to survive with this deck until turn 5-7 where Karn hits the field with some acceleration and you still have enough fatties in your hand. Now you still don't do anything to your opponent except losing a card each turn. We're not playing Solitaire, so we have to assume your opponent is going to either kill you or at least your Planeswalker if you're not able to put anything to the board.
Valarin pretty much nailed it with his post. You're going to play Karn's +4 most of the time because +4 every turn is an amount of loyality that your opponent has to deal with somehow. But you're not using it on yourself and pray that your opponent is dumb enough to watch you going off 3 turns later. I mean, you're not exiling the cards face down so your opponent can see what you're exiling and will instantly know what you're up to. You should +4ing him and take away cards from your opponent. Now take a look at what your opponent might usually exile.
• Land (meh, not so great but at least something to start with when you're going ultimate)
• Instant / Sorcery (that's ok I guess, one possible troublesome card less, even though we don't have any advantage when we go ultimate)
• Everything else pretty much says "you're screwed" to your opponent because he has to exile possible threats, making it more likely for you to go ultimate with Karn eventually AND we get to start with those threats when the game resets.
And I really fail to see where the advantage over this is, when you just exile a bunch of otherwise useless fatties and not doing anything to your opponent.
You know! Maybe you are right. May I?
1.) If your opponent is railing you with a big nasty get rid of it.
2.) If your opponent has a few cards in hand why not take the card advantage and force him or her to make that tough decision of what to scrap.
3.) ...Nah'. I like my idea better.
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If I use his +4 the opponent will have to find a way to deal 10 damage to get him out of board, but the profit might be nos as good if the opponent has an instant or sorcery spell in his hand, while if he starts to clean the table, exiling the opponets bigger threat with the -3, Karn will be within lightning bolt reach.
What do you guys think.
Ahhhhh! Purrrrfect! Thx!
these are people acting out of desperation, obviously if something is going to kill you then you need to use the -3 first to remove it. in a even board there is not reason to use the -3 first, unless your swinging for the win.
"I would imagine the most common lines will be the following:
If they have one creature, exile it, get up, and do a victory lap. The game is yours!
If they have multiple guys and you have sufficient blockers, kill their best guy. They better have removal or they are dead.
If they have multiple guys and you don’t have blockers, but their power doesn’t add up to 10, +4 Karn. Not the ideal situation, but still decent.
If they have a bunch of guys you can’t stop, 10+ power, kill their best guy and use Karn to gain a few life. You sound behind; try and do better next time."
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His ultimate is not something to be worked up to use on your own cards, its just a bad strategy, especially if he gets removed. If his ultimate is ever able to be used you're usually in a good enough situation already that it doesn't matter.
Why wouldn't you want to use your own cards? Why not use his ultimate the 3rd turn he's out? If he wasn't meant to be used this way they would have printed "opponent" and not "player" in his first ability.
If you can protect him for 2 turns and exile 2 great cards from your hand you've got the game. OR you can try to protect him for many more turns, like everyone else is suggesting, and hope he doesn't die AND your opponent is going to exile good cards from his or her hand and have great permanents out that he or she isn't going to protect...Hhhmmm! Yeah, the prior looks better than the latter.
Starting a new game the 3rd turn he's out with Praetor(s) and or (an) Eldrazi(s) sounds great to me!
I wouldn´t build a deck around exiling my own cards, It is too much a risk, and too late game (Karn costs 7 to get down and only three turns later i would be able to ultimate him) but if i gitaxian probe the opponent and find out that it is better tio exile one land of mine rather than a preordain from him i would without a doubt.
Isn't Karn just a win-more in any other situation? I can't imagine doing anything other than using his -3 over and over until you win.
Thank you, I will!:) Hopefully I will be a good player someday!:D
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Stolen.
As far as Karn is concerned you almost always want to use the +4. If his -3 is the only way out for you to avoid losing then you should do something else with 7 mana.
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In the end i finally played through his karn despite having the same sort of situation you get when a Jace 2.0 is fatesealing you and you have no cards in hand.
Bottom line, don't be afraid to try and go for the restart. if your opp. only has 1 card in hand. you should probably exile it because it just might be their out. and if they only have 1 creature you should probably exile it.
Honestly I think Karn will see the best play right after a wrath, or just before an All is dust.
Gfast animals slow shildrenG
51-18-4 (retired as of 6-4-11)
By using his +4, you just forced your opponent to dedicate all his resources to Karn to prevent a game reset. So while they spend turn after turn hopelessly sending all thier creatures at Karn, you just keep taking turns and drawing cards and setting up your win. Seriously, once Karn hits and yo ustart +4'ing, it;s going to feel like you are goldfishing, your opponent will bo doing nothing to you. Then you can see what is getting exiled and decide if you want to reboot and win or just win in the current game.
The only reason to use his -3 is if they have something that's going to kill you next turn.
Spam Infraction.
Odds of pulling any specific rare in 5th Edition: 1:133
So, on average, 1 JtMS every 2.222 boxes or 1 Bird of Paradise every 3.694 boxes. Yeah, I'll take my odds with Mythics, they are easier to get than old rares.
Want to support a LGS that finally branched into the selling online world? Send me a pm with your email for a $5 off coupon (usable on purchases of $10 or more) for a LGS that just recently got onto TCG player.
Despite the fact that my opponent could have likely killed me by chipping away with infect, he dedicated all of his resources to getting rid of Karn, and then scooped when he realized he wasn't going to kill him if I kept +4-inghim, and I was going to get my restart eventually. I'll admit that I probably could have played Karn better, but I was so enamored with the idea of restarting the game that I just went for it.
Whether or not you think its constructed playable, its a hell of a lot of fun to play with!
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Just like I said. The specter of his ultimate is so powerful, after you drop him, it's almost always the game, even if you never use it.
You know! Maybe you are right. May I?
1.) If your opponent is railing you with a big nasty get rid of it.
2.) If your opponent has a few cards in hand why not take the card advantage and force him or her to make that tough decision of what to scrap.
3.) ...Nah'. I like my idea better.