to the person that spams "idiot" ty, sue me for assuming best intentions of people.
only reason it really annoys me is that card wouldve been good seed money for deckbuilding, next week i finally complete my first standard type 2 legal deck in over a year. that card coulda sped it up lol.
Friendly suggestion: I know it is time consuming to price out all your cards, especially considering 90% of them will be worth close to nothing, but an easy way to get an idea of what might be valuable is to take a look at what decks are winning tournaments and from there you might see that for example a huge number of decks in legacy, vintage, and modern play 4x Tarmogoyf then you say oh I've got one I wonder what it's worth if it's getting that much play. Not a foolproof way but it'll help you narrow down what might be valuable. Also friends and judges or store owners are a good way to figure out if your stuff is valuable. I for one if I am going through someones stuff and it seems they don't really know the value of their stuff might point out this card is $40 oh hey this card is $20 etc, especially if they have a tarmogoyf sitting in a binder between two fifty cent rares.
The easiest way to figure out what cards you need to look up is to look at a website's buylist - if SCG isn't buying it, it's probably bulk.
aedan - it's fine to be annoyed and you were victimized. It's just that you can completely avoid this, 100%, by doing a little research beforehand.
To trust some dude you've never met before to accurately know the value of YOUR cards is foolish at best - even if there is no malice he could still be completely wrong. ergo trusting the other person to know the value of your cards makes you an idiot.
But you can take this experience and learn from it and not get taken advantage of again. It could have been worse - you could have been the guy who learned this trading away his beta wheel.
Finally, to answer the initial question - I have felt ripped off once. This was when someone whom I knew and had traded with several times prior's boyfriend claimed to look up the SCG price of a card and tell me it was $10 higher than it was.
To answer the ancillary question - I do not often make trades that are strictly dollar for dollar 'fair.' There are two values on cards - liquidity and retail price. The reality is that I can move an M12 Garruk or Jace much more easily than I can 20 $2 cards, so I'm not going to trade an M12 Jace for 15 $2 cards - I'm going to trade it for more dollars than it retails for.
Likewise, if I'm trying to get into something big, I understand I might have to put more cards into it. That's ok.
The notion that retail value is the only value a card has and is objective is hilariously mistaken and naive at best, and outright intentional ignorance at the worst.
something ill have to remember from now on to be sure. i had attended this shop on a semi regular basis a year or so back, this guy is a regular, id hate to be seen as a complainer.
any reason hes worth that much btw? seems like he wouldnt get that big in the end.
He's playable in casual, EDH, modern and most importantly, Legacy. He's a rare and in the last set of an out of print block.
Asking the owner or others shouldn't be seen as complaining. If they do view it that way, it's in your best interest to play somewhere else.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Current Game: Bioshock: Infinite
Mabbz on MTGO | Demgrinds on Twitch & Twitter | Helpdesk
You had a beta wheel of fortune? For a second I thought it was just a basic revised or perhaps unlimited wheel of fortune. But you had a beta card and didn't know what it was worth? And anyone should be able to tell on a card like wheel of fortune that it isn't just some random crap card. 3 mana to draw 7? Huh, wonder if that's good and good cards usually equate to higher value.
It's your job to know the value of your cards. If its any consolation there's a pretty good chance that goyf will somehow get reprinted, lowering the value tremendously to something like the 30 dollars you traded it away at.
But you should ALWAYS know your card values while trading, or at least carry a smartphone or some way to check prices with you when you trade. That's what a lot of people do nowadays.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
It is disgusting how some people try to justify this kind of ripping off.
Something like "He got cards he will actually use and have fun with. That Tarmogoyf was just wasting away in his binder" is TOTAL crap.
It is your responsibility to know your values, but at the same time, it is extremely immoral to rip someone off like that. I dont care how many times sharks try to say that the other side is happy with the cards they got.
I could trade a box of crayons for a special ed kid's lunch money, but it would be okay because he'd have fun and be happy with the box of crayons. Essentially, the uninformed player/new player is "special ed" and should not be taken advantage of
My suggestion: Learn your prices. If you ever see him trading again, call him out. Tell the other guy "CHECK YOUR PRICES. THIS GUY RIPPED ME OFF ONCE"
It's attemts to justify ripping people off that soured me on ever trading again. He could have eBay;ed that Tarm for $75 EASY and gotten more than double the number of cards he wantd. He was taken advantage of by someone wlse who fradulently misrepresented the cards value to an uninformed trader.
Attitidues like that are why I never trade anymore. If I have a card worth anything, I sell it to a store for credit. If it's not worth anything and someone wants it, I just give it to them.
My response was not a justification of ripping, but was meant to be a message of "look on the bright side" in order to assuage the original poster's hurt feelings. I followed it up with good advice on how to potentially rectify the situation (talking to the trader again).
I have morals so if someone is trading me a card well under value I will inform them of such. Just like I couldn't be a slimy car dealer, I can't be a slimy card trader. A faster method, instead of looking up all your card prices, is have a knowledgeable friend browse your binder and point out all the valuable cards. Then familiarize yourself with the price ranges for those cards.
Some people are too righteous for their own good. Why would you spoil a good deal by making it "fair"? So what if someone doesn't know that their cards spiked recently. Not your problem that they want to give you $5 more in trade. Or do you not like free stuff?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Inside this spoiler is some very critical information about myself and how I feel about this forum...
MTGS - My Favorite forum to troll ALL DAY ERRY DAY
i mean - to a certain extent, the value of a card is more about how much you personally value it than how much it's fetching on eBay.
if you have a desirable rare that you never use and don't like very much, surely it's worth trading for a bunch of stuff you would use, giving both parties a good deal. the guy who wanted the desirable rare got a decent card for his decks.... and in return, you got a bunch of stuff you would enjoy and use in your decks.
knowing the rough market value for cards is handy because it establishes a baseline..... but if both parties are getting something they want, who's to say it's an unbalanced trade, even if the market values are completely mismatched?
cards are only worth their market value if you are going to sell them.... if you aren't - what's the problem?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
It is disgusting how some people try to justify this kind of ripping off.
Something like "He got cards he will actually use and have fun with. That Tarmogoyf was just wasting away in his binder" is TOTAL crap.
It is your responsibility to know your values, but at the same time, it is extremely immoral to rip someone off like that. I dont care how many times sharks try to say that the other side is happy with the cards they got.
I could trade a box of crayons for a special ed kid's lunch money, but it would be okay because he'd have fun and be happy with the box of crayons. Essentially, the uninformed player/new player is "special ed" and should not be taken advantage of
My suggestion: Learn your prices. If you ever see him trading again, call him out. Tell the other guy "CHECK YOUR PRICES. THIS GUY RIPPED ME OFF ONCE"
I have said this many times and i will say it again, if you get ripped of it is your fault. there is no reason not to know what your cards are worth with smartphones or just asking a third party and if you trade blindly and wind up butt hurt you traded a $100 staple for some .50 cent janks learn from your mistake or get over it.
Calling the guy out for a trade you willingly made is just a dick move, he didn't rip you off you ripped yourself off.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Currently Playing 1994 Magic The Rack Type 1: B/W Zombies Modern: Kuldotha Red Legacy: Pox, Oath Vintag: 10 Proxy Merfolk Pauper: Pestilence, UG Threshold EDH: Karn, Roon, Sliver Queen, Xiahou Dun, Arcanus
Some people are too righteous for their own good. Why would you spoil a good deal by making it "fair"? So what if someone doesn't know that their cards spiked recently. Not your problem that they want to give you $5 more in trade. Or do you not like free stuff?
A guy at my lgs sorts his tradeables by price and has a binder that is less than a dollar then 1-3 then 4-8 and 8+ last week I was looking for stuff for my modern deck and he had a playset of lotus bloom in the 4 dollar section. I traded for them then looked them up, they were at 10. At the next FNM I let him pull 24 dollars of stuff from my binders to make it fair. Im not out to take advantage of anyone.
That being said I check the prices of any card Im not sure about when trading. I have saved a few dollars by taking the time to go to Channel Fireball on my phone before finalizing a deal. I think everyone should be so cautious.
Sucks, I would have at least traded you 40 dollars worth of stuff for it. Trades are trades, If you don't look up the value of the card then it is your fault. It is not my responsibility to tell you the prices of your cards and it wasn't his either. I just traded a guy a Dismember and a ponder for his foil Dismember. He came back after an hour and said he looked it up and wanted to trade back. I told him there was no way, that the foil dismember was worth way more than what he was offering me. He looked pretty shocked. I didn't want to be a jerk, I even liked the guy. However, the mistake is on him not me. I knew my prices and I was hustling thats what I do. That is what all traders do. Expect it, Do it yourself. You learn from your mistakes and you will never make that mistake again.
I kinda sympathize with you a little aedan. I to have made some pretty bad trades in the past but I have gotten much better. I at one point traded a box full of urza's block rares mostly with a spattering of every set previous in high value rares for a years long puget pass out in seattle. Now I only dumped about 900 bucks or so in cards in a 1500 count box. Now at the time I didn't realize I was trading 2500 or so in card value for a bus/train/water taxi/light rail pass that only cost around 1300.
Everyone I know would say I got the bad end of the trade and in hindsight yes they are right. However at the time the cards were just sitting in a box and I had quit playing for about a year so my need for them was pretty low but the value I got in trade was extremely high for me at least. So at least I ended up with some thing that was extremely useful for my box of cardboard.
Tl: DR version is always check your card values and if someone tell your that your trading a high value card for low value cards then absolutely rape the ever-loving gods out of their binder until they say please god stop because they know the value that they can get for your card and theirs and they are mostly likely trying to game you.
just feels...icky, ive had that card for YEARS and never checked its pricing for some reason, never used it either.
Yeah it sucks. But honestly if you've been gone from the game for that long, there is NO way you'd know. If you have a smart phone, I'd recommend finding a fast little app you can pull up. It helps, and even if you've got a Java phone with crappy web, you can still pull up findmagiccards. Worst case, if you're in a shop, see what they are selling it for.
If it helps, I traded away my Vesuva not realizing it doubled in price... and that was before the recent price bump even. But, I ended up getting 10 shock lands for about $8 a pop that day, and they've jumped bigtime as well... so win some, lose some.
We've all made bad trades, the key is to learn from them and move past them. I've been ripped off plenty of times, and I've also ripped people off. It's a cycle, it happens. Sometimes both parties misvalue a card, sometimes your trading partner wants a bunch of your smaller cards and will give you a straight up trade for their bigger card, sometimes you're unaware that a card spiked. The worst trade I've made that I can remember was my Engineered Explosives and Vedalken Shackles for 2 Goblin Guides. That trade was pretty terrible at the time, and it's even worse now. But I took those Goblin Guides and leveraged them towards a Tundra, which I gained value on in the long term. Yeah, you got ripped off, but its not the end of the world. Just realize what happened, know your prices, and move on.
How much of a margin is acceptable? I see lots of people here talking about "fair", but what is "fair"? Is fair equal values? What about people who have zero need for the cards they are acquiring? I ask because, as someone who makes a living buying and selling cards, I'm honestly curious what the average person considers fair. My standard rule is 10% on the trade, since I have no need of what I am being traded and am providing a service. On true bulk rares, I'll do an across the line even value trade because I make the 10% on selling the bulk. I traded several vintage/edh staples including a vamp tutor, a demonic tutor, a bayou, and other stuff for bulk rares. Did I get a metric ton of bulk rares, but both of us left happy. Financially will I get more out of it? Yes, but then again, I took the bulkiest of the bulk for it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Odds of pulling a JtMS from a WWK pack: 1:80
Odds of pulling any specific rare in 5th Edition: 1:133
So, on average, 1 JtMS every 2.222 boxes or 1 Bird of Paradise every 3.694 boxes. Yeah, I'll take my odds with Mythics, they are easier to get than old rares.
Want to support a LGS that finally branched into the selling online world? Send me a pm with your email for a $5 off coupon (usable on purchases of $10 or more) for a LGS that just recently got onto TCG player.
What is "fair" seems to always be what people are happy with. If both traders are fully informed about the relative prices of the cards they are trading then there doesn't seem to be a problem. I wouldn't have a problem with someone wanting to make X% on his trades as long as he understood that if X is a ridiculous markup then it will affect my wanting to trade with him unless I seriously need that card immediately.
What is "fair" seems to always be what people are happy with. If both traders are fully informed about the relative prices of the cards they are trading then there doesn't seem to be a problem. I wouldn't have a problem with someone wanting to make X% on his trades as long as he understood that if X is a ridiculous markup then it will affect my wanting to trade with him unless I seriously need that card immediately.
Hence why I feel 10% is fair.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Odds of pulling a JtMS from a WWK pack: 1:80
Odds of pulling any specific rare in 5th Edition: 1:133
So, on average, 1 JtMS every 2.222 boxes or 1 Bird of Paradise every 3.694 boxes. Yeah, I'll take my odds with Mythics, they are easier to get than old rares.
Want to support a LGS that finally branched into the selling online world? Send me a pm with your email for a $5 off coupon (usable on purchases of $10 or more) for a LGS that just recently got onto TCG player.
For everyone who doesn't want to keep track of what their cards are worth, why are you trading? Do you expect other players to be 100% honest in thier dealings?
Keep a smaller binder. You don't have to go all John Medina and memorize 3 store buylists every morning, but you certainly could use tricks like organizing your binder based on card values.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
only reason it really annoys me is that card wouldve been good seed money for deckbuilding, next week i finally complete my first standard type 2 legal deck in over a year. that card coulda sped it up lol.
aedan - it's fine to be annoyed and you were victimized. It's just that you can completely avoid this, 100%, by doing a little research beforehand.
To trust some dude you've never met before to accurately know the value of YOUR cards is foolish at best - even if there is no malice he could still be completely wrong. ergo trusting the other person to know the value of your cards makes you an idiot.
But you can take this experience and learn from it and not get taken advantage of again. It could have been worse - you could have been the guy who learned this trading away his beta wheel.
Finally, to answer the initial question - I have felt ripped off once. This was when someone whom I knew and had traded with several times prior's boyfriend claimed to look up the SCG price of a card and tell me it was $10 higher than it was.
To answer the ancillary question - I do not often make trades that are strictly dollar for dollar 'fair.' There are two values on cards - liquidity and retail price. The reality is that I can move an M12 Garruk or Jace much more easily than I can 20 $2 cards, so I'm not going to trade an M12 Jace for 15 $2 cards - I'm going to trade it for more dollars than it retails for.
Likewise, if I'm trying to get into something big, I understand I might have to put more cards into it. That's ok.
The notion that retail value is the only value a card has and is objective is hilariously mistaken and naive at best, and outright intentional ignorance at the worst.
He's playable in casual, EDH, modern and most importantly, Legacy. He's a rare and in the last set of an out of print block.
Asking the owner or others shouldn't be seen as complaining. If they do view it that way, it's in your best interest to play somewhere else.
Mabbz on MTGO | Demgrinds on Twitch & Twitter | Helpdesk
It's your job to know the value of your cards. If its any consolation there's a pretty good chance that goyf will somehow get reprinted, lowering the value tremendously to something like the 30 dollars you traded it away at.
But you should ALWAYS know your card values while trading, or at least carry a smartphone or some way to check prices with you when you trade. That's what a lot of people do nowadays.
Currently Playing:
Retired
Something like "He got cards he will actually use and have fun with. That Tarmogoyf was just wasting away in his binder" is TOTAL crap.
It is your responsibility to know your values, but at the same time, it is extremely immoral to rip someone off like that. I dont care how many times sharks try to say that the other side is happy with the cards they got.
I could trade a box of crayons for a special ed kid's lunch money, but it would be okay because he'd have fun and be happy with the box of crayons. Essentially, the uninformed player/new player is "special ed" and should not be taken advantage of
My suggestion: Learn your prices. If you ever see him trading again, call him out. Tell the other guy "CHECK YOUR PRICES. THIS GUY RIPPED ME OFF ONCE"
WUBEsper-Blade
EDH: Savra, Queen of the GolgariBG
My response was not a justification of ripping, but was meant to be a message of "look on the bright side" in order to assuage the original poster's hurt feelings. I followed it up with good advice on how to potentially rectify the situation (talking to the trader again).
MTGS - My Favorite forum to troll ALL DAY ERRY DAY
i mean - to a certain extent, the value of a card is more about how much you personally value it than how much it's fetching on eBay.
if you have a desirable rare that you never use and don't like very much, surely it's worth trading for a bunch of stuff you would use, giving both parties a good deal. the guy who wanted the desirable rare got a decent card for his decks.... and in return, you got a bunch of stuff you would enjoy and use in your decks.
knowing the rough market value for cards is handy because it establishes a baseline..... but if both parties are getting something they want, who's to say it's an unbalanced trade, even if the market values are completely mismatched?
cards are only worth their market value if you are going to sell them.... if you aren't - what's the problem?
I have said this many times and i will say it again, if you get ripped of it is your fault. there is no reason not to know what your cards are worth with smartphones or just asking a third party and if you trade blindly and wind up butt hurt you traded a $100 staple for some .50 cent janks learn from your mistake or get over it.
Calling the guy out for a trade you willingly made is just a dick move, he didn't rip you off you ripped yourself off.
Currently Playing
1994 Magic The Rack
Type 1: B/W Zombies
Modern: Kuldotha Red
Legacy: Pox, Oath
Vintag: 10 Proxy Merfolk
Pauper: Pestilence, UG Threshold
EDH: Karn, Roon, Sliver Queen, Xiahou Dun, Arcanus
O.o...your kinda a jerk arent ya? o.O
a prime example of capitalism i suppose.
RGGruul Aggro
WSoul Sisters
WBTokens
BUGRRestore Balance
BMono-Black Infect
EDH:
RGWMayael, the Anima
GWURoon of the Hidden Realm
BDrana, Kalastria Bloodchief
That being said I check the prices of any card Im not sure about when trading. I have saved a few dollars by taking the time to go to Channel Fireball on my phone before finalizing a deal. I think everyone should be so cautious.
Everyone I know would say I got the bad end of the trade and in hindsight yes they are right. However at the time the cards were just sitting in a box and I had quit playing for about a year so my need for them was pretty low but the value I got in trade was extremely high for me at least. So at least I ended up with some thing that was extremely useful for my box of cardboard.
Tl: DR version is always check your card values and if someone tell your that your trading a high value card for low value cards then absolutely rape the ever-loving gods out of their binder until they say please god stop because they know the value that they can get for your card and theirs and they are mostly likely trying to game you.
Yeah it sucks. But honestly if you've been gone from the game for that long, there is NO way you'd know. If you have a smart phone, I'd recommend finding a fast little app you can pull up. It helps, and even if you've got a Java phone with crappy web, you can still pull up findmagiccards. Worst case, if you're in a shop, see what they are selling it for.
If it helps, I traded away my Vesuva not realizing it doubled in price... and that was before the recent price bump even. But, I ended up getting 10 shock lands for about $8 a pop that day, and they've jumped bigtime as well... so win some, lose some.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=341469
:EDH:
WR Gisela, Blade of Goldnight (HOLD/100) WR
WB Teysa, Orzhov Scion (HOLD/100) WB
Odds of pulling any specific rare in 5th Edition: 1:133
So, on average, 1 JtMS every 2.222 boxes or 1 Bird of Paradise every 3.694 boxes. Yeah, I'll take my odds with Mythics, they are easier to get than old rares.
Want to support a LGS that finally branched into the selling online world? Send me a pm with your email for a $5 off coupon (usable on purchases of $10 or more) for a LGS that just recently got onto TCG player.
Hence why I feel 10% is fair.
Odds of pulling any specific rare in 5th Edition: 1:133
So, on average, 1 JtMS every 2.222 boxes or 1 Bird of Paradise every 3.694 boxes. Yeah, I'll take my odds with Mythics, they are easier to get than old rares.
Want to support a LGS that finally branched into the selling online world? Send me a pm with your email for a $5 off coupon (usable on purchases of $10 or more) for a LGS that just recently got onto TCG player.
Keep a smaller binder. You don't have to go all John Medina and memorize 3 store buylists every morning, but you certainly could use tricks like organizing your binder based on card values.
Right, cause that's TOTALLY outrageous Actually trusting someone not to be a thief? What kind of society do you think we live in?
I'd say he's being a realist considering human nature.
:EDH:
WR Gisela, Blade of Goldnight (HOLD/100) WR
WB Teysa, Orzhov Scion (HOLD/100) WB