dose anyone other than me feel that (some) the pro players are being selfish? i know that is suck that there is one less PT location. but did u really need to form a union over it? i was reading there forums and a lot of the posters were saying that by cutting a PT that it would be the end of magic. which i find very hard to believe. plus a lot of them (them meaning the posters) are upset that they cant make a living off playing magic. I'm not trying to be mean when i say this but cant u just get a job like the rest of the magic players?
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I love the women and im a dude, so what get over yourselfs!
Tarmogoyf costs $50, so he has to be played in your tournament deck. Otherwise everyone will laugh at you. You will be brought to the head judge's table where they will publicly humiliate you over the PA. You will have "LOL...WTF!" stamped on your DCI card in big red letters at the door on your way out.
You find a job that would allow the traveling being a pro such as Kenji Tsumura does, and I'm sure they would. Finding a job that would allow level 7 and 8 pros to do what they need to being on that level is a huge commitment to traveling. You can't play the game, see the world if your boss won't give you time off, and that time off would be hard to get given current views of TCGs.
I don't mind them starting a union (being selfish is a virtue in my book). I'm just wondering what's the point. What are they going to do to pressure WotC, go on strike? LOL Yeah, that's going to work.
I don't sympathize with those who expect WOTC to give them a career playing MTG. Nobody has that 'right', and MTG, like golf, is a game where you have to play well just to get a shot at winning money. WOTC is not in the business of providing full-time jobs for players. (Ie. "I only play MTG for the $ and pro tour")
Now, I do understand that many pros and non-pros are angry that WOTC is so poor in their communication of big announcements. When PT events get cancelled, and so forth, WOTC doesn't make a clear announcement.
Companies, internally and externally (I have experienced this a LOT) are afraid of communicating bad news. Thus, they try to hide it, or keep it somewhat quiet, in the hopes that bad news doesn't spread. WOTC must fear that major 'we cancelled a pro tour' announcement would send the rats scurrying.
The fact is that people CAN deal with bad news. What makes people nervous is when they don't know what WOTC is up to. Since WOTC is so secretive, people will speculate and rumors will abound about financial troubles, PT troubles, etc etc ... if WOTC was just clear about WHAT and WHY they do what they do, people wouldn't have to spend time worrying and just make whatever adjustments are necessary in their lives.
I think it is commendable that the players are trying to form a unified voice to communicate with WOTC. It's obvious that WOTC/Hasbro doesn't talk to the players enough, and there is a big lack of two-way communication. It'll be good for both sides to hear the whole story.
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and why shouldn't they be able to make a living playing magic. What is so wrong with that. KUDOS to them if they can do it. I wish I could.
Ask yourself if you were at the level these players are, wouldn't you want to try to make a living playing magic. Sounds like a bit of jealous to me
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and why shouldn't they be able to make a living playing magic. What is so wrong with that. KUDOS to them if they can do it. I wish I could.
Ask yourself if you were at the level these players are, wouldn't you want to try to make a living playing magic. Sounds like a bit of jealous to me
It's not jealousy, it's just reality. I have no PT aspirations, nor did that come up in my comment.
If people can be so good as to consistantly make a good career out of playing MTG, then good for them. It's rare, it's hard, and that is why so few can do it.
The fact is, however, that
1. They (pro tour players) have no guaranteed income, and should not expect as such. Each pro tour stop is a singular event, and apart from whatever bonuses a top player might get (Free flights, etc), each players income for attending any event always starts at $0. Again, think of ye olde golf tournament. Each player is playing for the right to fight for money.
2. Nobody has a 'right' to make money playing MTG. It's a privledge. Unlike a 'real' job, MTG is contingent on beating a string of competitors at individual events.
3. MTG is a game, and was originally made for people to have 'fun' with. I cannot sympathise with those that simply play the game for money.
4. Some PT players seem to think the game will die without them. The facts? There are plenty of good players, and plenty of players willing to take their place, and plenty of players to attend local tournaments.
5. PT participation is fluid. One year's top player might not be good enough to qualify next year. There are plenty of competitors vying for the same spot. Unlike a 'real' job (I hate that term, but you know what I mean), competitors are easily replaceable parts.
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1. They (pro tour players) have no guaranteed income, and should not expect as such.
No-one else is allowed to expect a guaranteed income (just in general) unless they have a tenured job at a university or some such. I can't believe anyone seriously suggests that pro Magic players are; but then again, maybe I shouldn't be surprised given the ever-growing wannabe-pro circle-jerk that is the internet.
I take that time, energy, and intellengence and do something constructive... or get a job that makes me more money with it.... Not play a card game.
Plus its better then going to a reunion and telling people I play cards for a living.....
Have you ever seen poker players? Some play it for a living. I think if your at such a level you should get a nice compensation for it. Now, I think that current rates are just dandy but can WoTC make it easier for players to travel? Cause I think that would make it a bit better.
No-one else is allowed to expect a guaranteed income (just in general) unless they have a tenured job at a university or some such. I can't believe anyone seriously suggests that pro Magic players are; but then again, maybe I shouldn't be surprised given the ever-growing wannabe-pro circle-jerk that is the internet.
I seriously disagree with that, People who work in the U.S. have the right to property (abriged means pursuit of happiness). This means that the people need the ability to have a job and earn an honest wage, and not have their employer deny them their wages. The problem with the Pro-tour jerks is that they seem to belive that the pro-tour is garunteed and that without it they won't maintain their livelyhoods. The problem is that wizards says they will have card tournement in a location, cancels it, then tells people too late, after they have booked and paid for their flights/lodging. That is pretty deceptive of Wizards, and kind of dishonest.
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"Wizards could put $100 bills in packs and people would complain about how they were folded."
Irish_Pirate, the right to propeerty was intentionally altered from Locke's original inalienable rights because that would be the antithesis of a capitalist society. We have the right to work for things and attain them but we are not by any means guaranteed them. We are expected to utilize the opportunities afforded us by living in this country to attain them on our own merits and effort. Guaranteeing property is, by definition, a Marxist belief.
I said this in another thread, but I think my rant works here too.
Here's my two cents thrown in for throwing in purposes.
1. The Pro-Players Union is a poor choice of a name. If they don't want to be thought of as that type of Union they should of named themselves something like Pro-Player United or something along those lines. A union is not the right kind of image that I think they want to portray. No one is going to take a pro-player strike seriously and I think it would be in bad taste to do so. Also like Wal-Mart and other big business, Hasbro does not like the idea of Unions and I think this whole thing may cause a backlash that will effect us all. They can't fire them cause they're not employees (which by the way you can't fire employees for being pro-union anyway), but by being part of this Union they many have screwed any chance of being hired by WotC for anything in the future. Also, since Hasbro makes the rules, they can change the rules and hand-out bans for being anti-Hasbro. Yes it wouldn't be fair and it might result in some backlash, but they could do it if they wanted to.
2. If they did strike for some reason, it would probably help WotC more then it would hurt them. In every strike there are things called Scabs. Scabs get paid better then they employees ever did and they rape the benefits of a strike. If you ever gone to a GP or any other event where Pro's show up you get a sense of dread when you get paired against one. It's like a reverse bi for a non-pro. If all the Pros refused to attend an event, that would just make the non-pros go "What? No Pros?!? You mean my chances of winning just went up?" Mark my words they're will be scabs, many many scabs.
3. Some people keep stating that Poker is a card game that people can play and make a living off of and compared this to magic. The counter to this is that Poker is not a trademarked game whose events are only being held by one company. There are many different poker competitions and only a few Magic ones. If you really want to make money playing a CCG in the same way poker players do, then why don't you play more CCGs? Do you think professional video game players sit around and earn their living playing only one game? No, you've gotta branch out and play Halo and Super Smash Brothers. Until now Pros were lucky enough to be able to concentrate on Magic, but I don’t think it’s unfair to make them branch out to make their money. I’m just upset I’ve never been able to make money by being a professional comic book reader.
4. My last complaint is that None of the Pros are looking for alternatives to the WotC teet. The most obvious one would be to go the way of Nascar and look for sponsors to supplement your playing. I mean really why don’t they do this? Get a deal with Deckmaster to get paid to use their sleeves in your event or wear a jacket with “Starcity Games” logo on it. I mean why not look to these other ways to make money with your fame? Heck they could even cut a deal to go to local card shops and get paid by the owners to sit around and give advice on drafting techniques at a FNM. My point is that you can’t realistically have expected WotC to fund you by themselves for your whole career. The big problem I see is that there are simply too many players going Pro and WotC just doesn’t have the budget to fund them all and they are just trying to stop the bleeding before it gets out of control. Looking to alternative means of income isn’t that much to ask is it?
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I know people who do make their living off magic. It's called owning a gaming store. Granted it's not exactly glamorous, but it definitely has benefits.
1. You have access to all the cards you need, which you can usually get at a discount. Most shops offer some form of store credit for chase rares and if they do offer money it's usually a lot cheaper than buying the single
2. You can take days off when needed. It's your store, so take off for the pro tour when you need to. Shut the shop down for a few days or have your employees run it while your gone.
3. You're surrounded by magic all the time. Having booster drafts and FNMs play out in front of you every week would be a great way to stay ontop of new cards and strategies.
I've played Magic since Invasion. I play the game because I love the game, not because I expect rewards. Rewards are always nice, but nobody pays me to raise my son, work out, or do any number of things I do for the love of doing them.
It's not jealousy, it's just reality. I have no PT aspirations, nor did that come up in my comment.
If people can be so good as to consistantly make a good career out of playing MTG, then good for them. It's rare, it's hard, and that is why so few can do it.
The fact is, however, that
1. They (pro tour players) have no guaranteed income, and should not expect as such. Each pro tour stop is a singular event, and apart from whatever bonuses a top player might get (Free flights, etc), each players income for attending any event always starts at $0. Again, think of ye olde golf tournament. Each player is playing for the right to fight for money.
2. Nobody has a 'right' to make money playing MTG. It's a privledge. Unlike a 'real' job, MTG is contingent on beating a string of competitors at individual events.
3. MTG is a game, and was originally made for people to have 'fun' with. I cannot sympathise with those that simply play the game for money.
4. Some PT players seem to think the game will die without them. The facts? There are plenty of good players, and plenty of players willing to take their place, and plenty of players to attend local tournaments.
5. PT participation is fluid. One year's top player might not be good enough to qualify next year. There are plenty of competitors vying for the same spot. Unlike a 'real' job (I hate that term, but you know what I mean), competitors are easily replaceable parts.
Football was originally a game to have fun with, as was baseball, poker, soccer, but people get paid millions to play these games now
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Most of the arguments that have been raised in this thread are fairly irrelevant to the purpose of the union. Basically, people have gotten the wrong idea as far as the goals of the group.
More than anything else, the pros (and non-pros) are organizing themselves in order to create an avenue through which communication can go both ways - players to WotC, as well as the converse - since up to this point, the communication has been all them to us. There are issues that the pros and nonpros alike wish to have some input into, and it truly is in the best long-term interest of Wizards to let those discussions take place. You can see that they agree based on their willingness to meet with the leaders on the union at open and closed door seesions at PT KL.
A lot of positive change has the potential to occur through these meetings, and continued open lines of communication between the player base and WotC. This isn't a group formed to increase wages, or secure benefits to people on the gravy train. It's purpose is to allow the voice of the players to be heard in a manner that isn't ranting on a message board, and I, for one, see that as an extremely important step forward.
Football was originally a game to have fun with, as was baseball, poker, soccer, but people get paid millions to play these games now
Yeah, but people also televise and watch those. Once, a long time ago, Magic was on ESPN. But that was long ago and no one's getting televised advertising revinue off Pro-tours now. Also all those sports you mention have sponsorship and multiple organizations to help pay the players. Do you think all poker players and all poker tournaments are run by Bicycle cards? Find an example of any other sport or game where the players can make a living off of the rewards provided by one single company.
I said it before and i'll say it again. There's nothing wrong with trying to make what you love a job, but you can't expect to be funded from one source doing it. These pro's aren't trying to find other sources to suppliment their income like sponsers, writing articles, personal apperencies, et.c
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Disclaimer: this is a post made by my friend not me.... but i full heartedly agree with him. if you don't believe me he posts as shojeel.
The thing is I am not jealous. Don't get me wrong I am trying to go pro. The fact is that almost every tourney is held on the weekends. This gives them 5 days a week to work at least part time. I know that is what I would be doing. I mean, how much money do they make a year? I am sure I make more then hem and I still play magic. If I were to go Pro I certainly would not quit my 100k a year job. The Pro''s are being bum like fools. GET A JOB IF YOU ARE UPSET AND JOIN THE REST OF SOCIETY.
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I love the women and im a dude, so what get over yourselfs!
Tarmogoyf costs $50, so he has to be played in your tournament deck. Otherwise everyone will laugh at you. You will be brought to the head judge's table where they will publicly humiliate you over the PA. You will have "LOL...WTF!" stamped on your DCI card in big red letters at the door on your way out.
The whole Players Union spurred from the fact that money was being cut/taken from Pro's. If the money aspect was never changed there wouldn't be a discussion about this today. I agree that there needs to be communication, hell that is a great idea. But the fact this is basically a union born from greed and I have a feeling it will crash and burn.
If I tell you I have a box of cookies for you if you do all sorts of things by Christmas, then give you a pack on M&Ms when you complete the tasks I set out, would you feel cheated? I don't think any of the pros are asking for anything ridiculous prize wise. The want the money they were told they would be getting is all.
If I tell you I have a box of cookies for you if you do all sorts of things by Christmas, then give you a pack on M&Ms when you complete the tasks I set out, would you feel cheated? I don't think any of the pros are asking for anything ridiculous prize wise. The want the money they were told they would be getting is all.
Ah but if I read the fine print I'll find you clearly stated you have the right to change the cookies to any form of a snack as you choose without notice.
Also, it's more like your offering a box of cookies, but when I get it two are missing. Now I'm upset that I'm short two cookies, but then I look at all the people who are giving you cookies just to have the honor of trying to jump through your hoops and if I'm not an ass I'll relize how lucky I am just to get any cookies and move on.
Also, somepeople perfer M&M's.
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Just because I have a right to something doesn't make it the right thing to do. I think a lot of the issue could have been avoided if the changes had been announced in advance. Thats the main problem the Pros have.
Yeah, but people also televise and watch those. Once, a long time ago, Magic was on ESPN. But that was long ago and no one's getting televised advertising revinue off Pro-tours now. Also all those sports you mention have sponsorship and multiple organizations to help pay the players. Do you think all poker players and all poker tournaments are run by Bicycle cards? Find an example of any other sport or game where the players can make a living off of the rewards provided by one single company.
I said it before and i'll say it again. There's nothing wrong with trying to make what you love a job, but you can't expect to be funded from one source doing it. These pro's aren't trying to find other sources to suppliment their income like sponsers, writing articles, personal apperencies, et.c
people were making a living player poker long ago before it was Pop like it is now. The livings came off what they got from the pot. No guarantee income
next wizards is not one single company that does everything themselves. They have to have some print the cards, ship the cards, next a distributors ship the cards. I could go on. Hell wizards is part of Hasbro sow its not one single company
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I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration, that made lady sing the blues I'm the spark that makes your idea bright The same spark that lights the dark so that you can know your left from your right I am the ballot in your box; the bullet in the gun That inner glow that lets you know to call your brother "son" The story that just begun, the promise of what's to come And I'mma remain a soldier til' the war is won
people were making a living player poker long ago before it was Pop like it is now. The livings came off what they got from the pot. No guarantee income
See we agree on the first part. No guaranteed income. This seems like what is bugging the pro's the most, they fear not being able to count on being able to make a living off this. You seem to agree that even successful poker players don't have a guarantee.
next wizards is not one single company that does everything themselves. They have to have some print the cards, ship the cards, next a distributors ship the cards. I could go on. Hell wizards is part of Hasbro sow its not one single company
Um, so hasbro is five companies now? While WotC might be involved with other companies, and they are owned by one big company, in the end they are still one source that is providing the Pro events. Yes they have alot of money, but so do Casinos and yet it still takes several dozen independently owned casinos to provide enough poker tournaments so pro poker players can make a living. I think you're just nitpicking here cause you can't think of an example of any other sport or game where the pro's make a living all from one source. I think one of the big problems here is that there are few other supporters holding big tourney's. Sure Starcity games has set a good precedent, but even that's not enough. If there were other sources of tournaments for these pros they might not be complaining as much when Wizards cut one PT. Also, please try to keep all further discussion in relation to snack foods, everything is nicer that way. It's hard to flame with cookies.
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Now, I do understand that many pros and non-pros are angry that WOTC is so poor in their communication of big announcements. When PT events get cancelled, and so forth, WOTC doesn't make a clear announcement.
Companies, internally and externally (I have experienced this a LOT) are afraid of communicating bad news. Thus, they try to hide it, or keep it somewhat quiet, in the hopes that bad news doesn't spread. WOTC must fear that major 'we cancelled a pro tour' announcement would send the rats scurrying.
The fact is that people CAN deal with bad news. What makes people nervous is when they don't know what WOTC is up to. Since WOTC is so secretive, people will speculate and rumors will abound about financial troubles, PT troubles, etc etc ... if WOTC was just clear about WHAT and WHY they do what they do, people wouldn't have to spend time worrying and just make whatever adjustments are necessary in their lives.
I think it is commendable that the players are trying to form a unified voice to communicate with WOTC. It's obvious that WOTC/Hasbro doesn't talk to the players enough, and there is a big lack of two-way communication. It'll be good for both sides to hear the whole story.
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Ask yourself if you were at the level these players are, wouldn't you want to try to make a living playing magic. Sounds like a bit of jealous to me
I take that time, energy, and intellengence and do something constructive... or get a job that makes me more money with it.... Not play a card game.
Plus its better then going to a reunion and telling people I play cards for a living.....
And just what is wrong with that?
It's not jealousy, it's just reality. I have no PT aspirations, nor did that come up in my comment.
If people can be so good as to consistantly make a good career out of playing MTG, then good for them. It's rare, it's hard, and that is why so few can do it.
The fact is, however, that
1. They (pro tour players) have no guaranteed income, and should not expect as such. Each pro tour stop is a singular event, and apart from whatever bonuses a top player might get (Free flights, etc), each players income for attending any event always starts at $0. Again, think of ye olde golf tournament. Each player is playing for the right to fight for money.
2. Nobody has a 'right' to make money playing MTG. It's a privledge. Unlike a 'real' job, MTG is contingent on beating a string of competitors at individual events.
3. MTG is a game, and was originally made for people to have 'fun' with. I cannot sympathise with those that simply play the game for money.
4. Some PT players seem to think the game will die without them. The facts? There are plenty of good players, and plenty of players willing to take their place, and plenty of players to attend local tournaments.
5. PT participation is fluid. One year's top player might not be good enough to qualify next year. There are plenty of competitors vying for the same spot. Unlike a 'real' job (I hate that term, but you know what I mean), competitors are easily replaceable parts.
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No-one else is allowed to expect a guaranteed income (just in general) unless they have a tenured job at a university or some such. I can't believe anyone seriously suggests that pro Magic players are; but then again, maybe I shouldn't be surprised given the ever-growing wannabe-pro circle-jerk that is the internet.
Have you ever seen poker players? Some play it for a living. I think if your at such a level you should get a nice compensation for it. Now, I think that current rates are just dandy but can WoTC make it easier for players to travel? Cause I think that would make it a bit better.
I seriously disagree with that, People who work in the U.S. have the right to property (abriged means pursuit of happiness). This means that the people need the ability to have a job and earn an honest wage, and not have their employer deny them their wages. The problem with the Pro-tour jerks is that they seem to belive that the pro-tour is garunteed and that without it they won't maintain their livelyhoods. The problem is that wizards says they will have card tournement in a location, cancels it, then tells people too late, after they have booked and paid for their flights/lodging. That is pretty deceptive of Wizards, and kind of dishonest.
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Here's my two cents thrown in for throwing in purposes.
1. The Pro-Players Union is a poor choice of a name. If they don't want to be thought of as that type of Union they should of named themselves something like Pro-Player United or something along those lines. A union is not the right kind of image that I think they want to portray. No one is going to take a pro-player strike seriously and I think it would be in bad taste to do so. Also like Wal-Mart and other big business, Hasbro does not like the idea of Unions and I think this whole thing may cause a backlash that will effect us all. They can't fire them cause they're not employees (which by the way you can't fire employees for being pro-union anyway), but by being part of this Union they many have screwed any chance of being hired by WotC for anything in the future. Also, since Hasbro makes the rules, they can change the rules and hand-out bans for being anti-Hasbro. Yes it wouldn't be fair and it might result in some backlash, but they could do it if they wanted to.
2. If they did strike for some reason, it would probably help WotC more then it would hurt them. In every strike there are things called Scabs. Scabs get paid better then they employees ever did and they rape the benefits of a strike. If you ever gone to a GP or any other event where Pro's show up you get a sense of dread when you get paired against one. It's like a reverse bi for a non-pro. If all the Pros refused to attend an event, that would just make the non-pros go "What? No Pros?!? You mean my chances of winning just went up?" Mark my words they're will be scabs, many many scabs.
3. Some people keep stating that Poker is a card game that people can play and make a living off of and compared this to magic. The counter to this is that Poker is not a trademarked game whose events are only being held by one company. There are many different poker competitions and only a few Magic ones. If you really want to make money playing a CCG in the same way poker players do, then why don't you play more CCGs? Do you think professional video game players sit around and earn their living playing only one game? No, you've gotta branch out and play Halo and Super Smash Brothers. Until now Pros were lucky enough to be able to concentrate on Magic, but I don’t think it’s unfair to make them branch out to make their money. I’m just upset I’ve never been able to make money by being a professional comic book reader.
4. My last complaint is that None of the Pros are looking for alternatives to the WotC teet. The most obvious one would be to go the way of Nascar and look for sponsors to supplement your playing. I mean really why don’t they do this? Get a deal with Deckmaster to get paid to use their sleeves in your event or wear a jacket with “Starcity Games” logo on it. I mean why not look to these other ways to make money with your fame? Heck they could even cut a deal to go to local card shops and get paid by the owners to sit around and give advice on drafting techniques at a FNM. My point is that you can’t realistically have expected WotC to fund you by themselves for your whole career. The big problem I see is that there are simply too many players going Pro and WotC just doesn’t have the budget to fund them all and they are just trying to stop the bleeding before it gets out of control. Looking to alternative means of income isn’t that much to ask is it?
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Viva La Assembly!
Quotes:
1. You have access to all the cards you need, which you can usually get at a discount. Most shops offer some form of store credit for chase rares and if they do offer money it's usually a lot cheaper than buying the single
2. You can take days off when needed. It's your store, so take off for the pro tour when you need to. Shut the shop down for a few days or have your employees run it while your gone.
3. You're surrounded by magic all the time. Having booster drafts and FNMs play out in front of you every week would be a great way to stay ontop of new cards and strategies.
I've played Magic since Invasion. I play the game because I love the game, not because I expect rewards. Rewards are always nice, but nobody pays me to raise my son, work out, or do any number of things I do for the love of doing them.
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Football was originally a game to have fun with, as was baseball, poker, soccer, but people get paid millions to play these games now
More than anything else, the pros (and non-pros) are organizing themselves in order to create an avenue through which communication can go both ways - players to WotC, as well as the converse - since up to this point, the communication has been all them to us. There are issues that the pros and nonpros alike wish to have some input into, and it truly is in the best long-term interest of Wizards to let those discussions take place. You can see that they agree based on their willingness to meet with the leaders on the union at open and closed door seesions at PT KL.
A lot of positive change has the potential to occur through these meetings, and continued open lines of communication between the player base and WotC. This isn't a group formed to increase wages, or secure benefits to people on the gravy train. It's purpose is to allow the voice of the players to be heard in a manner that isn't ranting on a message board, and I, for one, see that as an extremely important step forward.
Yeah, but people also televise and watch those. Once, a long time ago, Magic was on ESPN. But that was long ago and no one's getting televised advertising revinue off Pro-tours now. Also all those sports you mention have sponsorship and multiple organizations to help pay the players. Do you think all poker players and all poker tournaments are run by Bicycle cards? Find an example of any other sport or game where the players can make a living off of the rewards provided by one single company.
I said it before and i'll say it again. There's nothing wrong with trying to make what you love a job, but you can't expect to be funded from one source doing it. These pro's aren't trying to find other sources to suppliment their income like sponsers, writing articles, personal apperencies, et.c
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The thing is I am not jealous. Don't get me wrong I am trying to go pro. The fact is that almost every tourney is held on the weekends. This gives them 5 days a week to work at least part time. I know that is what I would be doing. I mean, how much money do they make a year? I am sure I make more then hem and I still play magic. If I were to go Pro I certainly would not quit my 100k a year job. The Pro''s are being bum like fools. GET A JOB IF YOU ARE UPSET AND JOIN THE REST OF SOCIETY.
I love the women and im a dude, so what get over yourselfs!
Ah but if I read the fine print I'll find you clearly stated you have the right to change the cookies to any form of a snack as you choose without notice.
Also, it's more like your offering a box of cookies, but when I get it two are missing. Now I'm upset that I'm short two cookies, but then I look at all the people who are giving you cookies just to have the honor of trying to jump through your hoops and if I'm not an ass I'll relize how lucky I am just to get any cookies and move on.
Also, somepeople perfer M&M's.
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people were making a living player poker long ago before it was Pop like it is now. The livings came off what they got from the pot. No guarantee income
next wizards is not one single company that does everything themselves. They have to have some print the cards, ship the cards, next a distributors ship the cards. I could go on. Hell wizards is part of Hasbro sow its not one single company
See we agree on the first part. No guaranteed income. This seems like what is bugging the pro's the most, they fear not being able to count on being able to make a living off this. You seem to agree that even successful poker players don't have a guarantee.
Um, so hasbro is five companies now? While WotC might be involved with other companies, and they are owned by one big company, in the end they are still one source that is providing the Pro events. Yes they have alot of money, but so do Casinos and yet it still takes several dozen independently owned casinos to provide enough poker tournaments so pro poker players can make a living. I think you're just nitpicking here cause you can't think of an example of any other sport or game where the pro's make a living all from one source. I think one of the big problems here is that there are few other supporters holding big tourney's. Sure Starcity games has set a good precedent, but even that's not enough. If there were other sources of tournaments for these pros they might not be complaining as much when Wizards cut one PT. Also, please try to keep all further discussion in relation to snack foods, everything is nicer that way. It's hard to flame with cookies.
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