I searched the forums and couldn't find the answer I am looking for. I know player's are allowed to write down their opponent's hand when it becomes public knowledge (i.e. Gitaxian Probe, Surgical Extraction, etc.) However, I don't know the EXACT rule that says this.
The reason I ask is because I was playing at FNM the other night and I cast Gitaxian Probe, my opponent reveals his hand, I begin to write it down, and he picks it up. I ask him to wait and he spews off some angry response of "you're not allowed to write it down while it's revealed, you have to remember it then write it down". I just looked at him in awe at how dumb it sounded. I called a judge, got it resolved. But I want to know the rule that says a player is allowed to write it down, in case it comes up in the future.
Wow, I'm curious about this too. I've never heard of someone writing down what was in the other person's hand. It feels a bit too encumbersome and time-consuming, especially when you're playing a timed event like FNM.
Was it really THAT crucial to aiding your victory?
I can understand the player being annoyed too, but I guess it depends on the rules actually work.
Players are allowed to take written notes during a match and may refer to those notes while that match is in progress. At the beginning of a match, each player’s note sheet must be empty and must remain visible throughout the match. Players do not have to explain or reveal notes to other players. Judges may ask to see a player’s notes and/or request that the player explain his or her notes. Players may not refer to outside notes during games. This includes notes from previous matches.
Basiclly, as long as you do it reasonably fast, it's completely legal.
Wow, I'm curious about this too. I've never heard of someone writing down what was in the other person's hand. It feels a bit too encumbersome and time-consuming, especially when you're playing a timed event like FNM.
Was it really THAT crucial to aiding your victory?
I can understand the player being annoyed too, but I guess it depends on the rules actually work.
What did the Judge do to resolve the situation?
Yes. Perfect knowledge is irreplaceable. It lets you know whether or not they have a leak for your win con. It also lets you know what their turn structure is going to look like. It's pretty brutal.
And the judge just told the player that it's public knowledge, and since I wasn't taking long to write it down, there wasn't a problem with it.
That player was simply nerdraging for apparently no reason. I have never seen other players rage when they show me their hand and I'm writing it down. Just make sure you write it fast by respect to the other player. If you're not done and he's picking the cards, he's wrong (unless, obviously, you have moved on and you are tapping mana or whatever..)
You see all kind of people playing magic, some are cheaters, some are unhappy, some are ragers, some are idiots, some are smart, friendly, etc.
You can write down public knowledge. You could theorically write down his deck when searching his library (with memoricide for example), but it would be stalling. You can take notes however about a few win-cons or silver bullets you may encounter.
This is the key point. You can make notes about any public information, that's fine, you just have to be reasonably quick about it. At nationals this year I overheard a guy a couple of tables down from me asking a judge if it would be acceptable to write out the contents of his opponent's entire library whilst he was resolving a Surgical Extraction. The answer, unsurprisingly, was no.
i thought you are allowed to as long as you do it quickly
at the top8 of pro tour charleston, i remember one of the players used mimeofacture to look through his opponents deck, sorted everything, and then deduced what was in their hand. there was a crowd of judges watching, but it was fine since he did it within the time limit
You can definitely always do this, at least for cards that reveal the hand, not sure about the library I always write down what I see from Gitaxian Probe, Cabal Therapy, Thoughtseize, etc.
i thought you are allowed to as long as you do it quickly
at the top8 of pro tour charleston, i remember one of the players used mimeofacture to look through his opponents deck, sorted everything, and then deduced what was in their hand. there was a crowd of judges watching, but it was fine since he did it within the time limit
I thought that event wasn't even timed, but Tomohiro Kaji received a slow play warning for it anyway. If so, there is that precedent for judges to fall back on.
At nationals this year I overheard a guy a couple of tables down from me asking a judge if it would be acceptable to write out the contents of his opponent's entire library whilst he was resolving a Surgical Extraction. The answer, unsurprisingly, was no.
The problem isn't the act of writing down the decklist while searching your opponent's library; the problem is with how fast it's possible to do so.
If you could somehow do it fast enough, there's no problem with copying down your opponent's decklist. The likelihood of being able to do that within a reasonable time frame for performing the search... is close to 0.
I searched the forums and couldn't find the answer I am looking for. I know player's are allowed to write down their opponent's hand when it becomes public knowledge (i.e. Gitaxian Probe, Surgical Extraction, etc.) However, I don't know the EXACT rule that says this.
The reason I ask is because I was playing at FNM the other night and I cast Gitaxian Probe, my opponent reveals his hand, I begin to write it down, and he picks it up. I ask him to wait and he spews off some angry response of "you're not allowed to write it down while it's revealed, you have to remember it then write it down". I just looked at him in awe at how dumb it sounded. I called a judge, got it resolved. But I want to know the rule that says a player is allowed to write it down, in case it comes up in the future.
Thanks,
Ryan
Was it really THAT crucial to aiding your victory?
I can understand the player being annoyed too, but I guess it depends on the rules actually work.
What did the Judge do to resolve the situation?
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=409478
Basiclly, as long as you do it reasonably fast, it's completely legal.
Currently Playing:
I don't even know right now.
Yes. Perfect knowledge is irreplaceable. It lets you know whether or not they have a leak for your win con. It also lets you know what their turn structure is going to look like. It's pretty brutal.
And the judge just told the player that it's public knowledge, and since I wasn't taking long to write it down, there wasn't a problem with it.
You see all kind of people playing magic, some are cheaters, some are unhappy, some are ragers, some are idiots, some are smart, friendly, etc.
You can write down public knowledge. You could theorically write down his deck when searching his library (with memoricide for example), but it would be stalling. You can take notes however about a few win-cons or silver bullets you may encounter.
i thought you are allowed to as long as you do it quickly
at the top8 of pro tour charleston, i remember one of the players used mimeofacture to look through his opponents deck, sorted everything, and then deduced what was in their hand. there was a crowd of judges watching, but it was fine since he did it within the time limit
I thought that event wasn't even timed, but Tomohiro Kaji received a slow play warning for it anyway. If so, there is that precedent for judges to fall back on.
The Modal Cube is also on Cube Tutor!
GWEDH Asmira's WrathGW
If you could somehow do it fast enough, there's no problem with copying down your opponent's decklist. The likelihood of being able to do that within a reasonable time frame for performing the search... is close to 0.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)