The problem with that is that it is a non binding internal decision from the company, pretty sure they have printed things they said they would never print again. And who is to stop them from making arbitrary decisions like what to print and for what reasons. Trust me they are a company, if they think they can make money off of it and it is the good of the company it will be reprinted list or no. If the company ever tanked and they needed money i would bet you would see dual lands and power nine again. So just take those lists with a grain of salt.
A previous version of this policy allowed premium versions of cards on the reserved list to be printed. Starting in 2011, no cards on the reserved list will be printed in either premium or non-premium form.
I'm pretty sure a lot of people would quit magic if they reprinted anything on the reserve list.
I'm pretty sure anyone who would get that outraged doesn't even play anymore, if they ever did.
WotC won't be making any more money off those people, anyway,
so their reasons for keeping that "promise" will continue to dwindle.
FWIW, I own all the Revised Duals and most of the P9,
and I wouldn't really give a rat's ass if they reprinted the lot,
so long as they gave plenty of warning so I didn't spend $250 on another Moat right beforehand.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
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.
FWIW, I own all the Revised Duals and most of the P9,
and I wouldn't really give a rat's ass if they reprinted the lot,
so long as they gave plenty of warning so I didn't spend $250 on another Moat right beforehand.
I don't think reprinting from the Reserved List would cause a lot of current players to leave magic....it would however, cause a lot of the collectors and speculators to quit Magic.
I wouldn't mind myself if they did get rid of the Reserve List...but maybe give a 2 year notice to collectors. This might be something they could consider doing in ther future if there was sufficient momentum for such a policy change...
Pretty sure that by just having the reserved list policy printed on their web site opens them up to huge legal issues should they ever decide to break it. Even if they could successfully defend it in court they would probably have to spend a huge amount of money just fighting it in the legal system. You know damn well that some people out there are just itching to sue them for this. I'm betting the EV is waaaay in the negative from a business point of view for them to ever consider this.
I don't think reprinting from the Reserved List would cause a lot of current players to leave magic....it would however, cause a lot of the collectors and speculators to quit Magic.
I wouldn't mind myself if they did get rid of the Reserve List...but maybe give a 2 year notice to collectors. This might be something they could consider doing in ther future if there was sufficient momentum for such a policy change...
^ this. I agree, the barier to legacy shouldnt be a $2000 entry
There's no right to be able to play a specific format, and nor should there be.
...and there are no extant placental mammals native to Australia, as long as we are commenting on things people did not say. He did not say he had a right to play Legacy, all he said is that the investment required to play in Legacy should not be as high as it is. Even MaRo and AaFo agree with that, though they feel powerless to change it. Any format has a monetary investment associated with entering it, that is a given fact, but Legacy's is going to strangle it till it is as dusty and unplayed as Vintage.
The problem with that is that it is a non binding internal decision from the company, pretty sure they have printed things they said they would never print again. And who is to stop them from making arbitrary decisions like what to print and for what reasons. Trust me they are a company, if they think they can make money off of it and it is the good of the company it will be reprinted list or no. If the company ever tanked and they needed money i would bet you would see dual lands and power nine again. So just take those lists with a grain of salt.
Yes, they could make an arbitrary decision to renege, but they updated the policy recently enough to close loopholes like you had mentioned. It's highly unlikely.
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As soon as Hasbro/Wizards decides that the amount of money they can gain by breaking the reprint policy is greater than the amount of money lost from breaking it, be it legal fee's or whatever other costs are associated with it, they will drop the reserve list like nobody's business.
I don't think that it's there yet, so there's not going to be any reserve list cards in FTV: Realms. The day is coming though, as legacy picks up steam the amount of money available from breaking the reserve list goes up.
I don't think reprinting from the Reserved List would cause a lot of current players to leave magic....it would however, cause a lot of the collectors and speculators to quit Magic.
I wouldn't mind myself if they did get rid of the Reserve List...but maybe give a 2 year notice to collectors. This might be something they could consider doing in ther future if there was sufficient momentum for such a policy change...
That would be good for the game, less demand=less cost.
The reserved list doesn't help anyone that purchases product from WotC. I don't understand why they are protecting a few people sitting on some old cards.
I wish FTV really was from the vault, but it never will while that list exists that they have 100% power over getting rid of...
I don't see how, is there another Mountain that is single handily destroyed by a card that can't hit any other Mountain? In a legal set I mean.
PICTURE THE FOLLOWING
your opponent controls a bunch of Moxen and casts Annex on your Mountain; by your Telepathy you know they hold Animate Land and you're on 1 life with no way to deal with a 3/3. if you control City in a Bottle you'd rather it was the arabian nights mountain
The reserved list doesn't help anyone that purchases product from WotC. I don't understand why they are protecting a few people sitting on some old cards.
I wish FTV really was from the vault, but it never will while that list exists that they have 100% power over getting rid of...
I agree. Never understood why on earth they'd patch this loophole. Nevermind the fact that it was a tremendous source of hype and speculation. It's a shame they don't do away with it entirely - but thats a discussion for another thread (and a dead horse at this point - it doesn't 'protect' any value - it just hurts the playability of the game)
This will have one flagship land in it - probably NOT wasteland - and be as mediocre as FTV:Legends was. Just look at the Venser/Koth lists to see Wizards doesn't understand any of their target audiences at all. (Casual, Hardcore, Collector or EDH....)
The reason they keep the list is psychological. If anything can be reprinted, it would become impossible to speculate. Therefore all the cards implicitly drop to thirty cent a piece.
When you pay $50 for a mythic rare piece of cardboard, there's a reason non-gamers mock you and wonder if you're crazy. It's cuz they think anyone could print a piece of cardboard. Cardboard doesn't cost $4 per fifteen. It's all in the brain.
Any mythic rares can be reprinted whether or not the reserved list exists, as no mythics are on the list.
Anyways, it doesn't really make sense to buy $50 cards anyways unless you play in big tournaments that actually have rewards. In casual play and FNM you should be ok with cheaper cards.
Also, I wonder why there hasn't been a "Chinese reprint" of those old cards on the reserved list. Counterfeiters fake ICs and transistors on eBay, why not Magic cards, which should be way easier to do, and more expensive? If they are indistinguishable enough from the real ones to be used on tournaments, they could even sell them as fakes for something like $10 easily.
What if WOTC was willing to buy reserved lists cards from the public over a period of time? Maybe even at slightly higher market value? Then after that period, the reserved list is dissolved. What would that do? They could dole them back out as prizes, if the condition of them is good enough.
The idea is absurd, definitely, but the issue here is keeping the people who have these cards as an investment happy, so that they don't sue. The way I see it, there are those who have dual lands because its a good cad, and those who have them because it's worth a lot.
Also, I wonder why there hasn't been a "Chinese reprint" of those old cards on the reserved list. Counterfeiters fake ICs and transistors on eBay, why not Magic cards, which should be way easier to do, and more expensive? If they are indistinguishable enough from the real ones to be used on tournaments, they could even sell them as fakes for something like $10 easily.
I understand that, but it's not like many Asian traders care about legality issues.
You're making the assumption there aren't *already* counterfeits out there,
which seems a bit unlikely to me.
As you've said yourself, it would be very easy, and they already counterfeit everything there as it is.
That's one of the reasons I never buy cards from Asia,
though I wouldn't be the tiniest bit surprised if I owned a fake or two.
In other news, the Reserve List is NOT a binding Legal Document!
They won't have to pay one dime in court fees if they reprint Black Lotus,
because the Reserve List is not a contract in any form-
it's just a promise, and promises are broken all the time with no legal repercussions.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Yeah, I keep hoping they reprint birds of paradise once or twice so those alpha ones come down to under a buck.
Classic guitars and records don't nosedive in price when they make replicas.
And if the cards currently in circulation are any indication, it wouldn't affect Magic either.
I wish I could upvote this, because the Birds example is perfect. I'm sure there would be some impact on pricing of reserved list items if they were ever reprinted, but I don't know that it would be the "TO THE GROUND" level that people are afraid of. Alpha and Beta will stay expensive (though having new black border options would diminish their appeal slightly). Revised and Unlimited may see more of a drop, but they aren't expensive on the level of A/B anyways.
In other news, the Reserve List is NOT a binding Legal Document!
They won't have to pay one dime in court fees if they reprint Black Lotus,
because the Reserve List is not a contract in any form-
it's just a promise, and promises are broken all the time with no legal repercussions.
I'd love to see some dubious claims on promissory estoppel arise from sensitive, fury-blinded investors, though.
In other news, the Reserve List is NOT a binding Legal Document!
They won't have to pay one dime in court fees if they reprint Black Lotus,
because the Reserve List is not a contract in any form-
it's just a promise, and promises are broken all the time with no legal repercussions.
Of course it's not a contract, there are no parties involved.
What it is is a company stating their intentions with written documents.
If people can sue McDonalds for getting burned on coffee in a cup that did not say "Caution: Hot" then I'm sure people can figure out a way to justify a law suit against WotC for a breach in company intentions. In fact the reason they re-visited and revised the list was probably due to all the "special" reprints they had come out at once, like Thawing Glaciers, Mox Diamond and Phyrexian Negator.
Of course it's not a contract, there are no parties involved.
What it is is a company stating their intentions with written documents.
If people can sue McDonalds for getting burned on coffee in a cup that did not say "Caution: Hot" then I'm sure people can figure out a way to justify a law suit against WotC for a breach in company intentions. In fact the reason they re-visited and revised the list was probably due to all the "special" reprints they had come out at once, like Thawing Glaciers, Mox Diamond and Phyrexian Negator.
People keep citing that case as an example of a so-called frivolous law suit being successful in court without realizing that the plaintiff in that case had every reason to sue, as McDonald's serves their coffee at a temperature much higher than necessary, and it spilling in her lap caused severe third degree burns. She was well within her right to sue them.
Whiny collectors complaining about the price of their cardboard dropping because Wizards actually had the brains to make format staples available to a wider range of people on the other hand have no legal foot to stand on. NONE.
People keep citing that case as an example of a so-called frivolous law suit being successful in court without realizing that the plaintiff in that case had every reason to sue, as McDonald's serves their coffee at a temperature much higher than necessary, and it spilling in her lap caused severe third degree burns. She was well within her right to sue them.
Except if the same case happened now, it would be thrown out because they carry a disclaimer on every hot beverage container the hand out to customers.
So it's not a case of justification, it's a case nomenclature missing on items handed out to customers, which was thought to be common sense. Coffee is hot, but because it wasn't stated on the cup, it was viable grounds, not because of self injury.
Whiny collectors complaining about the price of their cardboard dropping because Wizards actually had the brains to make format staples available to a wider range of people on the other hand have no legal foot to stand on. NONE.
First off, I'd like to say I do not approve of the Reserved list, but your attitude towards it baffles me.
First of all, you have no idea if it was collectors or not who complained. In fact everyone I know (including myself) who own dual lands and cards on the reserved list, could care less if they reprint said cards, more for me. So do not think for a second that because you think it's collectors, it's collectors that are preaching the list.
For all you know it could be people trying to exploit Hasbro as a company.
And I will state again, I do not know the legal precedents for companies making company knowledge public, but I would think if a law suit appeared, the Reserved list being in writing, would not help WotC in the least.
Think of it as a guarantee of sorts. When business' don't upheld guarantees, customers backlash, and could, in sense, take legal action.
Again, I am not an advocate of the Reserved list, nor do I know enough about American business practice, these are only my opinions, but I am not naive enough to think the reserved was revised and upheld just because of a few "whiny" collectors.
A previous version of this policy allowed premium versions of cards on the reserved list to be printed. Starting in 2011, no cards on the reserved list will be printed in either premium or non-premium form.
http://www.wizards.com/magic/tcg/article.aspx?x=magic/products/reprintpolicy
I'm pretty sure a lot of people would quit magic if they reprinted anything on the reserve list.
I'm pretty sure anyone who would get that outraged doesn't even play anymore, if they ever did.
WotC won't be making any more money off those people, anyway,
so their reasons for keeping that "promise" will continue to dwindle.
FWIW, I own all the Revised Duals and most of the P9,
and I wouldn't really give a rat's ass if they reprinted the lot,
so long as they gave plenty of warning so I didn't spend $250 on another Moat right beforehand.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
I don't think reprinting from the Reserved List would cause a lot of current players to leave magic....it would however, cause a lot of the collectors and speculators to quit Magic.
I wouldn't mind myself if they did get rid of the Reserve List...but maybe give a 2 year notice to collectors. This might be something they could consider doing in ther future if there was sufficient momentum for such a policy change...
S
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^ this. I agree, the barier to legacy shouldnt be a $2000 entry
There's no right to be able to play a specific format, and nor should there be.
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
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Yes, they could make an arbitrary decision to renege, but they updated the policy recently enough to close loopholes like you had mentioned. It's highly unlikely.
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I don't think that it's there yet, so there's not going to be any reserve list cards in FTV: Realms. The day is coming though, as legacy picks up steam the amount of money available from breaking the reserve list goes up.
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That would be good for the game, less demand=less cost.
I wish FTV really was from the vault, but it never will while that list exists that they have 100% power over getting rid of...
PICTURE THE FOLLOWING
your opponent controls a bunch of Moxen and casts Annex on your Mountain; by your Telepathy you know they hold Animate Land and you're on 1 life with no way to deal with a 3/3. if you control City in a Bottle you'd rather it was the arabian nights mountain
I agree. Never understood why on earth they'd patch this loophole. Nevermind the fact that it was a tremendous source of hype and speculation. It's a shame they don't do away with it entirely - but thats a discussion for another thread (and a dead horse at this point - it doesn't 'protect' any value - it just hurts the playability of the game)
This will have one flagship land in it - probably NOT wasteland - and be as mediocre as FTV:Legends was. Just look at the Venser/Koth lists to see Wizards doesn't understand any of their target audiences at all. (Casual, Hardcore, Collector or EDH....)
Any mythic rares can be reprinted whether or not the reserved list exists, as no mythics are on the list.
Anyways, it doesn't really make sense to buy $50 cards anyways unless you play in big tournaments that actually have rewards. In casual play and FNM you should be ok with cheaper cards.
Also, I wonder why there hasn't been a "Chinese reprint" of those old cards on the reserved list. Counterfeiters fake ICs and transistors on eBay, why not Magic cards, which should be way easier to do, and more expensive? If they are indistinguishable enough from the real ones to be used on tournaments, they could even sell them as fakes for something like $10 easily.
The idea is absurd, definitely, but the issue here is keeping the people who have these cards as an investment happy, so that they don't sue. The way I see it, there are those who have dual lands because its a good cad, and those who have them because it's worth a lot.
Because selling proxies is illegal.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=203629
Read up on that if you don't understand why selling fakes would be illegal.
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Tempo Thresh: Primer
Yeah, I keep hoping they reprint birds of paradise once or twice so those alpha ones come down to under a buck.
Classic guitars and records don't nosedive in price when they make replicas.
And if the cards currently in circulation are any indication, it wouldn't affect Magic either.
I understand that, but it's not like many Asian traders care about legality issues.
You're making the assumption there aren't *already* counterfeits out there,
which seems a bit unlikely to me.
As you've said yourself, it would be very easy, and they already counterfeit everything there as it is.
That's one of the reasons I never buy cards from Asia,
though I wouldn't be the tiniest bit surprised if I owned a fake or two.
In other news, the Reserve List is NOT a binding Legal Document!
They won't have to pay one dime in court fees if they reprint Black Lotus,
because the Reserve List is not a contract in any form-
it's just a promise, and promises are broken all the time with no legal repercussions.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
lmao, ok, let me put it in other terms.
Do you play Legacy? Have you ever looked into buying Dual lands?
Off the top of your head, do you know what languages cards from revised come in?
I'll give you hint, Chinese, or any Asian language, is not one of them.
Perhaps that's the reason they don't make Chinese fakes?
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig.
NO RUG: Primer
Tempo Thresh: Primer
I wish I could upvote this, because the Birds example is perfect. I'm sure there would be some impact on pricing of reserved list items if they were ever reprinted, but I don't know that it would be the "TO THE GROUND" level that people are afraid of. Alpha and Beta will stay expensive (though having new black border options would diminish their appeal slightly). Revised and Unlimited may see more of a drop, but they aren't expensive on the level of A/B anyways.
I'd love to see some dubious claims on promissory estoppel arise from sensitive, fury-blinded investors, though.
Of course it's not a contract, there are no parties involved.
What it is is a company stating their intentions with written documents.
If people can sue McDonalds for getting burned on coffee in a cup that did not say "Caution: Hot" then I'm sure people can figure out a way to justify a law suit against WotC for a breach in company intentions. In fact the reason they re-visited and revised the list was probably due to all the "special" reprints they had come out at once, like Thawing Glaciers, Mox Diamond and Phyrexian Negator.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig.
NO RUG: Primer
Tempo Thresh: Primer
People keep citing that case as an example of a so-called frivolous law suit being successful in court without realizing that the plaintiff in that case had every reason to sue, as McDonald's serves their coffee at a temperature much higher than necessary, and it spilling in her lap caused severe third degree burns. She was well within her right to sue them.
Whiny collectors complaining about the price of their cardboard dropping because Wizards actually had the brains to make format staples available to a wider range of people on the other hand have no legal foot to stand on. NONE.
UBBreya's Toybox (Competitive, Combo)WR
RGodzilla, King of the MonstersG
-Retired Decks-
UBLazav, Dimir Mastermind (Competitive, UB Voltron/Control)UB
"Knowledge is such a burden. Release it. Release all your fears to me."
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Except if the same case happened now, it would be thrown out because they carry a disclaimer on every hot beverage container the hand out to customers.
So it's not a case of justification, it's a case nomenclature missing on items handed out to customers, which was thought to be common sense. Coffee is hot, but because it wasn't stated on the cup, it was viable grounds, not because of self injury.
First off, I'd like to say I do not approve of the Reserved list, but your attitude towards it baffles me.
First of all, you have no idea if it was collectors or not who complained. In fact everyone I know (including myself) who own dual lands and cards on the reserved list, could care less if they reprint said cards, more for me. So do not think for a second that because you think it's collectors, it's collectors that are preaching the list.
For all you know it could be people trying to exploit Hasbro as a company.
And I will state again, I do not know the legal precedents for companies making company knowledge public, but I would think if a law suit appeared, the Reserved list being in writing, would not help WotC in the least.
Think of it as a guarantee of sorts. When business' don't upheld guarantees, customers backlash, and could, in sense, take legal action.
Again, I am not an advocate of the Reserved list, nor do I know enough about American business practice, these are only my opinions, but I am not naive enough to think the reserved was revised and upheld just because of a few "whiny" collectors.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig.
NO RUG: Primer
Tempo Thresh: Primer