I completely agree with you on this subject, but how do you explain Tamiyo being present in Avacyn Restored? The design team for the Innistrad block greatly emphasized how humans were the only major sentient race on that plane, to create an atmosphere of horror and desperation for them and to better portray tropes of classic horror stories, as well. Therefore, Tamiyo, a non-human planeswalker, was definitely out-of-place on the humans-only plane of Innistrad, which was very odd, in my mind.
Back when Tamiyo was first revealed, wasn't there an article saying that she was on Innistrad studying the moon and its effect on Innistrad? Wouldn't that be how they explained Tamiyo's presence there?
Edit: I will say that there is a tiny chance. But I consider it very very poor and Brady went out of his way to mention that she didn't fit the philosophical model they built the Simic around.
Considering they had no bones about flat-out telling us Bolas would NOT be in the block,
don't you find their dancing around the topic of Kiora
(as opposed to flat out saying "SHE IS NOT IN RTR BLOCK!")
at least a little suspicious?
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Considering they had no bones about flat-out telling us Bolas would NOT be in the block,
don't you find their dancing around the topic of Kiora
(as opposed to flat out saying "SHE IS NOT IN RTR BLOCK!")
at least a little suspicious?
One of the main things is that they usually say "never say never"
They are very reluctant to ever outright deny something. Bolas being missing is actually an exception to their normal modus operandi.
But I find it even more telling that they'd go out of their way to tell us that Kiora doesn't mesh rather than just beat around the bush like normal.
If Ral Zarek is a Planeswalker card, I don't even care if he's as bad as Tibalt, I will add him to my RU Modern Deck.
Good gods I hope he isn't that bad, but honestly I hope he isn't OMG TOURNEY worthy either. Else it will be a damnable bane to get my hands on him for my existent Ral deck.
Good gods I hope he isn't that bad, but honestly I hope he isn't OMG TOURNEY worthy either. Else it will be a damnable bane to get my hands on him for my existent Ral deck.
True.
As for your ral deck, do you mind telling me about it?
Looks like the "Dragon's Maze" announcement proves he's coming in Set #3. At least in card lore, doesn't look like PW card art to me.
The accompanying art usually means a planeswalker is coming with a different art. Examples: Liliana2.0 and Innistrad, Jace4.0 and RTR. Gideon is confirmed in GTC, but the art we have is obviously not PW card art.
I'm not saying it's 100 percent, but it wouldn't be unwise to put money on Zarek being in DGM and using a different art. The other existing picture has been shown to be a good fit for a PW card (as seen by all the fakes submitted during RTR spoiler season). It's quite possible that's the card we'll see.
Ral for one. You know, the guy who the thread is about.
noreally???? you don't say?
There are 5 walkers. We know 3, maybe 4. If not kiora, who else? We will still need a green or black walker, when its all said and done.
... You know the Design team isn't usually in charge of the walkers, right? That's creative's domain and Brady has outright stated that she isn't Simic.
And gideon isn't boros and Jace isn't izzet/azorius. The only walkers that can be justified as part of a guild are Vraska and Ral
No it's not... She doesn't share any of the philosophies that the Simic possess, nor the motivations. The ONLY thing she shares is their color identity and for totally different reasons. This would make Ravnica a TERRIBLE place to introduce her since it would completely muddy her characterization and confuse the issues of color identity and motivation.
.....
Aside from that, I can't help but get caught on the line "If not Kiora then who?" The reason why is that we've never had any indication at all that Kiora has even heard of Ravnica much less visited it. (Her duels of the planeswalker deck does not count, else she also commands ELDRAZI to do her bidding. Not viable nor canon.)
You are really hooked on the idea that if something is in ravnica it has to be alligned with a guild, arent you. Kiora doesn't have to work with simic or share any of their ideas, and still be green/blue
Her only traits I can think of, are that she likes leviathins.
----
If you bothered to read my earlier posts, I have actually said she isn't likely to come in if Ral is in by virtue of the requirement of multicolor.
Wisdomseyes1
You are really hooked on the idea that if something is in ravnica it has to be alligned with a guild, arent you. Kiora doesn't have to work with simic or share any of their ideas, and still be green/blue
Just going to point out that since Zendikar they did a lot to give flavor justification as to why said PW is their.
Zendikar-Sarkahn sent by Bolas,Jace and Gidoen following Chandra,Sorin returning to seal Eldrazi,Nissa's native plane
Scars of Mirrodin-Koth's native plan,ask Elspeth to help,forces Vesner to help,Tezzzeret sent by Bolas,Karn creator of the plane exiling himself there
Innistrad-Sorin & Tibalt's native plane,Liliana hunting one of her demons,Garruk huntin Liliana,Tamiyo finding a plane with a moon that has an effect on its denizens.
RtR-Jace's adopted home,Vraska & Ral's native plane plus being guild affiliated.Gideon looking for help against the Eldrazi and working with the Boros while hes on the plane.
Kiora could show up in GtC,but not because of the Simic since the head of creative said she dosen't share idiology with them.She could be there to gain a new big creature summons.
Wisdomseyes1
There are 5 walkers. We know 3, maybe 4. If not kiora, who else? We will still need a green or black walker, when its all said and done.
With the announcment of Dragons Maze we know 4.Vraska covers both black and green.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
WOut of the ground,I rise to grace...W BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
Kiora could show up in GtC,but not because of the Simic since the head of creative said she dosen't share idiology with them.She could be there to gain a new big creature
That was my thought too, especially after that Simic "Dragon" art appeared yesterday.
Stealing one of their prized experiments would fulfill Brady's statement rather well, IMO
(as well as being a rather GU thing to do)
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
It's unknown if that's card art, but it has a lot of visual similarities with Speaker Zegana.
I thought it was a Sea Serpent at first, but the full pic makes it rather obvious it's a dragon.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
It's unknown if that's card art, but it has a lot of visual similarities with Speaker Zegana.
I thought it was a Sea Serpent at first, but the full pic makes it rather obvious it's a dragon.
It was shown to be most likely NOT a card art. It's just the mat from GP Toronto.
So Raymond Swanland is just making art for any old group now?
I would think his main employers (WotC) might take issue with him selling art to someone else.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
So Raymond Swanland is just making art for any old group now?
I would think his main employers (WotC) might take issue with him selling art to someone else.
... Why would you think that?
They don't have an exclusive contract with him.
Do you understand how pay for work artists function?
Swanland does a lot of work for them, but he's free to sell his work and talents to anybody that will pay.
... Why would you think that?
They don't have an exclusive contract with him.
Do you understand how pay for work artists function?
Swanland does a lot of work for them, but he's free to sell his work and talents to anybody that will pay.
As a working artist, I know a few things about such dealings,
though admittedly I don't sell my work on a piece-by-piece basis.
All the same, I'd be highly surprised if he isn't under some sort of contractual obligation from WotC.
That usually comes with the paycheck.
I know if I were to create and sell artwork that could be mistaken for something owned by my employer, for example,
It could become a rather unpleasant, job-ending situation.
However, if WotC *does* own that artwork, they could certainly choose to allow it on the mat.
It would help your counter-argument if you could produce an official playmat with non-Magic artwork by a known Magic artist.
All the ones I can find use either official card art,
or random fantasy art of a questionable caliber.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
As a working artist, I know a few things about such dealings,
though admittedly I don't sell my work on a piece-by-piece basis.
All the same, I'd be highly surprised if he isn't under some sort of contractual obligation from WotC.
That usually comes with the paycheck.
I know if I were to create and sell artwork that could be mistaken for something owned by my employer, for example,
It could become a rather unpleasant, job-ending situation.
Lots of the artists that work for Wizards don't have an exclusive contract. I've spoken with a handful of them. They're contracted to do a set number of pieces in the sets, but outside of those promised commissions, they don't have any obligations to not produce any other artwork that they might be contacted to produce. Raymond Swanland, just to use him, produces artwork for book covers all the time, such as the Black Company anthology and a few others produced by Glen Cook.
An important thing to remember as well is that Magic doesn't own the concept of a dragon or any other such concept. If someone contacted Steve Argyle to draw them an awesome dragon, Wizards would have no claim to it just because it was a dragon. The only time this comes up is when someone is profiting off of one of their recognizable characters or existing artwork.
(For the record, I'm a freelance graphic artist myself.)
I so, so, SO hope that every single one of Ral's abilities involves flipping a coin.
No, just no.
It's already a mana investment casting a planeswalker that is most likely going to get targeted, so why have any of its ability dependent entirely on
luck?
With the announcment of Dragons Maze we know 4.Vraska covers both black and green
The sheer fact Vraska covers black and green is WHY we have to have another black *or* green planeswalker.
Assuming Ral is in the block:
We cover blue twice (jace and Ral)
We cover white once (Gideon)
We cover black once (vraska)
We cover green once (Vraska)
We cover red once or twice (ral and Gideon potentially... but more than 2 mutlicolor planeswalkers in a set is unlikely. Though it is ravnica)
Also, since the announcement of dragons maze? Is that not how this thread got started? We don't *know* Ral is in the set, he is just extremely likely.
Just going to point out that since Zendikar they did a lot to give flavor justification as to why said PW is their.
Zendikar-Sarkahn sent by Bolas,Jace and Gidoen following Chandra,Sorin returning to seal Eldrazi,Nissa's native plane
Scars of Mirrodin-Koth's native plan,ask Elspeth to help,forces Vesner to help,Tezzzeret sent by Bolas,Karn creator of the plane exiling himself there
Innistrad-Sorin & Tibalt's native plane,Liliana hunting one of her demons,Garruk huntin Liliana,Tamiyo finding a plane with a moon that has an effect on its denizens.
RtR-Jace's adopted home,Vraska & Ral's native plane plus being guild affiliated.Gideon looking for help against the Eldrazi and working with the Boros while hes on the plane.
Kiora could show up in GtC,but not because of the Simic since the head of creative said she dosen't share idiology with them.She could be there to gain a new big creature summons.
This has literally nothing to do with what I said.
Yes, we all know *why* planeswalkers are on their planes. What you quoted was me saying she doesn't need to be a part of the guild to share a color identity.
Kiora doesn't have to be simic to be simic colors and still make sense.
Wisdomseyes1
Also, since the announcement of dragons maze? Is that not how this thread got started? We don't *know* Ral is in the set, he is just extremely likely.
Kiora doesn't have to be simic to be simic colors and still make sense.
No.This thread was started two months ago meaning its impossible for this thread to have been started on information we got two weeks ago.And some of us don't need to held by the hand to justify confirmation.Liliana 2.0,Sorin 2.0,Jace 4.0 & Gideon 2.0 all show up on announcment promo art for the set they show up in.Then we get another announcment promo art with art that look almost exactly like Ral Zarek art from DotP and you still don't know he was in?Your eyes aren't using wisdom thats for sure.
Im guessing you didn't understand what i said.I was agreeing with you.I was just stating that flavor justification of why a planeswalker being on a plane they are on at the time is how they decide what PW will be there.It would be incredibly dumb for Kiora to show on Ravnica and then do nothing at all with the story.Her being U,G or GU has nothing to do with it.Just like Venser show up on Mirrodin because Koth forced him to go even though he wanted to stay and finish his work on planar ships.Sarkhan going to Zendikar for Bolas even though he himself dosen't have much intreset in the plane.Sorin showing that he cares about something besides vengance.All of those things are justifited by flavor not themes or mechanics of a set.Two of those sets didn't have anything to do with multicolor and the one that did have some in it the PW wasn't even in supported colors.
Being GU and haveing merfolk appear on the plane aren't justifiable if she isn't going to do anything with said guild.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
WOut of the ground,I rise to grace...W BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
Red should be burn, Goblins, Dragons, draw/discard, and Standard-unplayable 5CMC cards with insane, lengthy effects that take 10 minutes to figure out what they do and another 20 to actually make their effects work on the field.
Back when Tamiyo was first revealed, wasn't there an article saying that she was on Innistrad studying the moon and its effect on Innistrad? Wouldn't that be how they explained Tamiyo's presence there?
Considering they had no bones about flat-out telling us Bolas would NOT be in the block,
don't you find their dancing around the topic of Kiora
(as opposed to flat out saying "SHE IS NOT IN RTR BLOCK!")
at least a little suspicious?
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
One of the main things is that they usually say "never say never"
They are very reluctant to ever outright deny something. Bolas being missing is actually an exception to their normal modus operandi.
But I find it even more telling that they'd go out of their way to tell us that Kiora doesn't mesh rather than just beat around the bush like normal.
Avatar by Ace5301 at Ace of Spades Studio.
Good gods I hope he isn't that bad, but honestly I hope he isn't OMG TOURNEY worthy either. Else it will be a damnable bane to get my hands on him for my existent Ral deck.
True.
As for your ral deck, do you mind telling me about it?
I wonder type of 'walker he is.
Avatar by Ace5301 at Ace of Spades Studio.
The accompanying art usually means a planeswalker is coming with a different art. Examples: Liliana2.0 and Innistrad, Jace4.0 and RTR. Gideon is confirmed in GTC, but the art we have is obviously not PW card art.
I'm not saying it's 100 percent, but it wouldn't be unwise to put money on Zarek being in DGM and using a different art. The other existing picture has been shown to be a good fit for a PW card (as seen by all the fakes submitted during RTR spoiler season). It's quite possible that's the card we'll see.
noreally???? you don't say?
There are 5 walkers. We know 3, maybe 4. If not kiora, who else? We will still need a green or black walker, when its all said and done.
And gideon isn't boros and Jace isn't izzet/azorius. The only walkers that can be justified as part of a guild are Vraska and Ral
You are really hooked on the idea that if something is in ravnica it has to be alligned with a guild, arent you. Kiora doesn't have to work with simic or share any of their ideas, and still be green/blue
Her only traits I can think of, are that she likes leviathins.
----
If you bothered to read my earlier posts, I have actually said she isn't likely to come in if Ral is in by virtue of the requirement of multicolor.
Just going to point out that since Zendikar they did a lot to give flavor justification as to why said PW is their.
Zendikar-Sarkahn sent by Bolas,Jace and Gidoen following Chandra,Sorin returning to seal Eldrazi,Nissa's native plane
Scars of Mirrodin-Koth's native plan,ask Elspeth to help,forces Vesner to help,Tezzzeret sent by Bolas,Karn creator of the plane exiling himself there
Innistrad-Sorin & Tibalt's native plane,Liliana hunting one of her demons,Garruk huntin Liliana,Tamiyo finding a plane with a moon that has an effect on its denizens.
RtR-Jace's adopted home,Vraska & Ral's native plane plus being guild affiliated.Gideon looking for help against the Eldrazi and working with the Boros while hes on the plane.
Kiora could show up in GtC,but not because of the Simic since the head of creative said she dosen't share idiology with them.She could be there to gain a new big creature summons.
With the announcment of Dragons Maze we know 4.Vraska covers both black and green.
BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
That was my thought too, especially after that Simic "Dragon" art appeared yesterday.
Stealing one of their prized experiments would fulfill Brady's statement rather well, IMO
(as well as being a rather GU thing to do)
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
This thing
It's unknown if that's card art, but it has a lot of visual similarities with Speaker Zegana.
I thought it was a Sea Serpent at first, but the full pic makes it rather obvious it's a dragon.
It's probably better to discuss in that thread...
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
It was shown to be the mat from GP Toronto.
Whether it's card art is just speculation.
So Raymond Swanland is just making art for any old group now?
I would think his main employers (WotC) might take issue with him selling art to someone else.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
... Why would you think that?
They don't have an exclusive contract with him.
Do you understand how pay for work artists function?
Swanland does a lot of work for them, but he's free to sell his work and talents to anybody that will pay.
As a working artist, I know a few things about such dealings,
though admittedly I don't sell my work on a piece-by-piece basis.
All the same, I'd be highly surprised if he isn't under some sort of contractual obligation from WotC.
That usually comes with the paycheck.
I know if I were to create and sell artwork that could be mistaken for something owned by my employer, for example,
It could become a rather unpleasant, job-ending situation.
However, if WotC *does* own that artwork, they could certainly choose to allow it on the mat.
It would help your counter-argument if you could produce an official playmat with non-Magic artwork by a known Magic artist.
All the ones I can find use either official card art,
or random fantasy art of a questionable caliber.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Lots of the artists that work for Wizards don't have an exclusive contract. I've spoken with a handful of them. They're contracted to do a set number of pieces in the sets, but outside of those promised commissions, they don't have any obligations to not produce any other artwork that they might be contacted to produce. Raymond Swanland, just to use him, produces artwork for book covers all the time, such as the Black Company anthology and a few others produced by Glen Cook.
An important thing to remember as well is that Magic doesn't own the concept of a dragon or any other such concept. If someone contacted Steve Argyle to draw them an awesome dragon, Wizards would have no claim to it just because it was a dragon. The only time this comes up is when someone is profiting off of one of their recognizable characters or existing artwork.
(For the record, I'm a freelance graphic artist myself.)
No, just no.
It's already a mana investment casting a planeswalker that is most likely going to get targeted, so why have any of its ability dependent entirely on
luck?
Alternatively, each side could trigger a different effect.
The sheer fact Vraska covers black and green is WHY we have to have another black *or* green planeswalker.
Assuming Ral is in the block:
We cover blue twice (jace and Ral)
We cover white once (Gideon)
We cover black once (vraska)
We cover green once (Vraska)
We cover red once or twice (ral and Gideon potentially... but more than 2 mutlicolor planeswalkers in a set is unlikely. Though it is ravnica)
Also, since the announcement of dragons maze? Is that not how this thread got started? We don't *know* Ral is in the set, he is just extremely likely.
This has literally nothing to do with what I said.
Yes, we all know *why* planeswalkers are on their planes. What you quoted was me saying she doesn't need to be a part of the guild to share a color identity.
Kiora doesn't have to be simic to be simic colors and still make sense.
No.This thread was started two months ago meaning its impossible for this thread to have been started on information we got two weeks ago.And some of us don't need to held by the hand to justify confirmation.Liliana 2.0,Sorin 2.0,Jace 4.0 & Gideon 2.0 all show up on announcment promo art for the set they show up in.Then we get another announcment promo art with art that look almost exactly like Ral Zarek art from DotP and you still don't know he was in?Your eyes aren't using wisdom thats for sure.
Im guessing you didn't understand what i said.I was agreeing with you.I was just stating that flavor justification of why a planeswalker being on a plane they are on at the time is how they decide what PW will be there.It would be incredibly dumb for Kiora to show on Ravnica and then do nothing at all with the story.Her being U,G or GU has nothing to do with it.Just like Venser show up on Mirrodin because Koth forced him to go even though he wanted to stay and finish his work on planar ships.Sarkhan going to Zendikar for Bolas even though he himself dosen't have much intreset in the plane.Sorin showing that he cares about something besides vengance.All of those things are justifited by flavor not themes or mechanics of a set.Two of those sets didn't have anything to do with multicolor and the one that did have some in it the PW wasn't even in supported colors.
Being GU and haveing merfolk appear on the plane aren't justifiable if she isn't going to do anything with said guild.
BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
I'd say this is a pretty big hint, it set off red flags for me everywhere.
That couldn't be anymore obvious of a clue. So Ral Zarak is basically 99% confirmed.
Only an idiot, its the true.
Of course he will be in DGM, and of course he will be a crappy PW, cause he has R in his cost :(.
Oh ****, just remember that has U in his cost... mmmm
Maybe he would be nice....