We saw Duress in Divine VS Demonic with an atypically generic new art, and that ended up in M10. Then Voltaic Key showed up in M11 after Phyrexia VS The Coalition in much the same manner. Neither Swords to Plowshares or Mishra's Factory reference the conflicting forces of the set (DvD Faith's Fetters references the demonic, for example), nor are rares like Mutilate. Flipping through the EvT I picked up yesterday made me wonder whether that one of these two uncommons might be the next core set art plant.
Personally, I'd guess the Factory. After all, we saw Mutavault in Morningtide, and this is something that has synergy with artifact-matters cards, which is something Scars of Mirrodin seems to like too.
I hope StP is in 2012. It seems possible, they brought back Bolt and Duress. Maybe Swords will see the light of day in standard. Factory on the other hand, IMO too good in standard. I do not want to relive the days of mutavault again.
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A new standard for standard has been set with the WWK manlands, factory pretty much outclasses them all. Also the fact that its MISHRAS factory makes me think they will steer away from it, as its old storyline and not new player friendly.
Swords however is arguably less powerful than path which will have rotated by then. White has always seemed to have a 1 mana removal spell, and as of this moment they have 3 in standard (oust, path, condemn). I would suspect that if swords came back it would not do so until the rest of these 1 cost removal spells left, and even then I would say it's probably a long shot over condemn or oust coming back.
A new standard for standard has been set with the WWK manlands, factory pretty much outclasses them all. Also the fact that its MISHRAS factory makes me think they will steer away from it, as its old storyline and not new player friendly.
Swords however is arguably less powerful than path which will have rotated by then. White has always seemed to have a 1 mana removal spell, and as of this moment they have 3 in standard (oust, path, condemn). I would suspect that if swords came back it would not do so until the rest of these 1 cost removal spells left, and even then I would say it's probably a long shot over condemn or oust coming back.
This is a very logical argument. Actually, now that I think about it, maybe they'll reprint Swords after Path has rotated from Extended. Having 2 cards like that makes white really good.
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If StP happens, it won't be an uncommon (in spite of Voltiac Key). It would run rampant in Limited formats, to the point where White would be the only color to gun for in Draft/Sealed. That's extremely bad design (this is in spite of the fact that a certain color usually ends up being gunned for anyway).
Reprinting Path or StP at Rare (possibly a common Rare, ala Mana Barbs) would keep this from happening.
Same thing with Factory, only it ends up being a Mutavault situation.
It's possible, but two data points don't prove anything. Magic products tend to use simple, iconic cards, the kind you'd use in a core set.
I don't think M12 is finallized yet, nor do i think they plan these things out that far ahead.
I'm not sure if M12 is finished yet, but it's at least well in the works. And a decision about which big-ticket iconic cards to bring back, like Bolt in M10 is likely one of the first things they figure out. I suppose it's plausible, but I'm not sure it's probable.
interesting theorey, but i don't think it will happen. if it does, the reprinted card will be Thirst for Knowledge because you said it yourself all of these got new art for the duel decks.
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If StP happens, it won't be an uncommon (in spite of Voltiac Key). It would run rampant in Limited formats, to the point where White would be the only color to gun for in Draft/Sealed. That's extremely bad design (this is in spite of the fact that a certain color usually ends up being gunned for anyway).
Reprinting Path or StP at Rare (possibly a common Rare, ala Mana Barbs) would keep this from happening.
Same thing with Factory, only it ends up being a Mutavault situation.
Seriously, STP at uncommon wouldn't make white much more desirable as a color in limited. Sealed/draft are based highly on depth in the commons, not a single card, unless it's completely rediculous in limited, like Dralna or something. Now, I'd say you'd see quite a bit of splashing for white to run Swords, though. Lightning Bolt at common hasn't even really made red a highly drafted color. Now, if you mean bad drafters that make a first pick and stick to that color no matter what, then it makes white much more likely to be gunned for. Sure, good removal is good, but good players don't draft a color just because they picked up one good card from it.
Path to Exile is probably about as good as it's going to get for white. Swords is in a whole different league than Path, because life gain is far from the drawback as mana ramp is. I don't expect to see it reprinted.
Then again, this is the same Wizards that constantly assured us Lightning Bolt was just too overwhelmingly powerful to reprint.
M12 should be finished, or just wrapping up. Development has started on Shake, the next block, set to be released after M12. At least this is the vibe I got from MaRo over the past few weeks.
Anyways, I think either card would be a welcome edition to standard, my money is on the factory as it plays well with Scars, and promotes inter-block synergy. There are already a lot of Swords like effects in Standard, so I would be more surprised to see it.
I also don't think the factory would outclass the manlands of WWK, they are drastically different in form and function, and it being in M12 would mean that they'd together in standard for like 2 months.
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i was going to explain how that's wrong but Surging Chaos beat me to it
Except neither of you did. Life ramp is a deterrent over mana ramp, format and match dependent. In something like Boros landfall bushwhacker, I would MUCH rather give my opponent a land they will never be able to us than life that will prevent me from putting them at 0, and likewise I think they would rather give me life than trigger landfall on something.
The game is not as black and white as all that, and considering things like serra's ascendant and survival cache are seeing play, swords not only becomes more of a double edged sword, the mana acceleration of path is going to be reduced in effectiveness as moxes and cheaper threats come out in mirridon.
Saying Path is more powerful than StP or the other way around is an incredibly ignorant way of thinking. In an aggro deck, Path is MUCH better as it lets you kill the opponent just as fast, while in control StP is much better because you don't want them getting ahead on land and life totals matter a lot less.
I might also point out that the 'drawback' of giving your opponent life for exiling his creature is rather meaningless when you don't attack his life total...
Now we even have aggro decks that can ignore StP's drawback.
Sinfire: Er, Path to Exile was printed at Uncommon (in a small set, no less). I don't exactly recall White running rampant because of it.
They did with it what they did with Eternal Witness: Called it an uncommon, but it was a really effing hard-to-find uncommon (both E. Witness and Path hit $5 at one point).
In other words, it was a rare with a silver symbol.
Warrior: That may be true in Constructed, but from a Limited perspective, I don't think there's as much difference. When you consider that the original Swords to Plowshares was Uncommon, and that cards that mimic it (albeit at a smaller power level) like Condemn, Oust, and Path to Exile were also all printed at Uncommon, I think you could argue that WotC R&D see the place of that kind of White removal (cheap exile creature removal as a one-off) as Uncommon.
I realize you're addressing the 'aggro vs. control' concern... so, I guess the questions are these:
1) Are there any decks that would prefer to lose their creature to PtE than StP?
2) Are there any decks that would prefer to give their opponent life rather than an extra basic land?
Personnally as a standard agro player I have a deck that stalls till turn 3 when I stabilize with garruk and a beast token playing t5 grave titan or gaeas revenge, if u path a grave titan yea, it hurts, but if you give me life, that sucks, cuz that land ramps me into bigger creatures faster, swords is better for T2 imo, that's why I'm sad to see path go.
Sinfire: Unless you're trying to imply that it was placed in the rare sheet, this is basically impossible by the way the cards are collated.
I know I got as many PtE as any other Uncommon in the boxes of Conflux I opened.
If an Uncommon hit that high, it would be because demand was higher than other Uncommons.
So, yeah, statistics works.
I dunno. I've seen entire boxes of Fifth Dawn go without a single Witness. Path was one or two a box, at most (whereas you can easily get 4 or 5 of some of the other uncommons).
Sinfire: Well, if you had the data, I could actually do the statistical analysis to see whether or not it's statistically distinct.
Y'know... that would be an interesting experiment. Know any game stores that are bound to open boxes of product to get singles (AFTER release)? If they tracked, per box, the levels of various uncommons, it should be rather easy to determine if there's some that are rarer than others. =)
However, the economics is pretty simple. If you assume that the supply of all uncommons is the same (which is how it should be, barring weird printing), the best Uncommons should sell for more. Maybe not $5 much, but more.
Swords to Plowshares is way overpowered by modern standards; you're not supposed to get unconditional 1-for-1 removal for CMC 1.
Path to Exile is strong but not overpowered -- it is card disadvantage -- and the name is a clever play on words. It's obviously a "fixed" Swords. Perhaps they'll reprint it someday.
As for Factory, I doubt seriously that it'll end up in a core set. Wizards has been very clear that they're filling the core sets with simple cards that have obvious in-world flavor. Mishra's Factory...
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Personally, I'd guess the Factory. After all, we saw Mutavault in Morningtide, and this is something that has synergy with artifact-matters cards, which is something Scars of Mirrodin seems to like too.
I don't think M12 is finallized yet, nor do i think they plan these things out that far ahead.
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A new standard for standard has been set with the WWK manlands, factory pretty much outclasses them all. Also the fact that its MISHRAS factory makes me think they will steer away from it, as its old storyline and not new player friendly.
Swords however is arguably less powerful than path which will have rotated by then. White has always seemed to have a 1 mana removal spell, and as of this moment they have 3 in standard (oust, path, condemn). I would suspect that if swords came back it would not do so until the rest of these 1 cost removal spells left, and even then I would say it's probably a long shot over condemn or oust coming back.
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This is a very logical argument. Actually, now that I think about it, maybe they'll reprint Swords after Path has rotated from Extended. Having 2 cards like that makes white really good.
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Reprinting Path or StP at Rare (possibly a common Rare, ala Mana Barbs) would keep this from happening.
Same thing with Factory, only it ends up being a Mutavault situation.
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I'm not sure if M12 is finished yet, but it's at least well in the works. And a decision about which big-ticket iconic cards to bring back, like Bolt in M10 is likely one of the first things they figure out. I suppose it's plausible, but I'm not sure it's probable.
Seriously, STP at uncommon wouldn't make white much more desirable as a color in limited. Sealed/draft are based highly on depth in the commons, not a single card, unless it's completely rediculous in limited, like Dralna or something. Now, I'd say you'd see quite a bit of splashing for white to run Swords, though. Lightning Bolt at common hasn't even really made red a highly drafted color. Now, if you mean bad drafters that make a first pick and stick to that color no matter what, then it makes white much more likely to be gunned for. Sure, good removal is good, but good players don't draft a color just because they picked up one good card from it.
Then again, this is the same Wizards that constantly assured us Lightning Bolt was just too overwhelmingly powerful to reprint.
i was going to explain how that's wrong but Surging Chaos beat me to it
Anyways, I think either card would be a welcome edition to standard, my money is on the factory as it plays well with Scars, and promotes inter-block synergy. There are already a lot of Swords like effects in Standard, so I would be more surprised to see it.
I also don't think the factory would outclass the manlands of WWK, they are drastically different in form and function, and it being in M12 would mean that they'd together in standard for like 2 months.
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Except neither of you did. Life ramp is a deterrent over mana ramp, format and match dependent. In something like Boros landfall bushwhacker, I would MUCH rather give my opponent a land they will never be able to us than life that will prevent me from putting them at 0, and likewise I think they would rather give me life than trigger landfall on something.
The game is not as black and white as all that, and considering things like serra's ascendant and survival cache are seeing play, swords not only becomes more of a double edged sword, the mana acceleration of path is going to be reduced in effectiveness as moxes and cheaper threats come out in mirridon.
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Now we even have aggro decks that can ignore StP's drawback.
They did with it what they did with Eternal Witness: Called it an uncommon, but it was a really effing hard-to-find uncommon (both E. Witness and Path hit $5 at one point).
In other words, it was a rare with a silver symbol.
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I know I got as many PtE as any other Uncommon in the boxes of Conflux I opened.
If an Uncommon hit that high, it would be because demand was higher than other Uncommons.
So, yeah, statistics works.
I realize you're addressing the 'aggro vs. control' concern... so, I guess the questions are these:
1) Are there any decks that would prefer to lose their creature to PtE than StP?
2) Are there any decks that would prefer to give their opponent life rather than an extra basic land?
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I dunno. I've seen entire boxes of Fifth Dawn go without a single Witness. Path was one or two a box, at most (whereas you can easily get 4 or 5 of some of the other uncommons).
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Y'know... that would be an interesting experiment. Know any game stores that are bound to open boxes of product to get singles (AFTER release)? If they tracked, per box, the levels of various uncommons, it should be rather easy to determine if there's some that are rarer than others. =)
However, the economics is pretty simple. If you assume that the supply of all uncommons is the same (which is how it should be, barring weird printing), the best Uncommons should sell for more. Maybe not $5 much, but more.
Path to Exile is strong but not overpowered -- it is card disadvantage -- and the name is a clever play on words. It's obviously a "fixed" Swords. Perhaps they'll reprint it someday.
As for Factory, I doubt seriously that it'll end up in a core set. Wizards has been very clear that they're filling the core sets with simple cards that have obvious in-world flavor. Mishra's Factory...