There is no solid reason to really ban him as far as I can tell.
As someone who plays him, he is not the wincon for me, more often then not it is on the back of Gideon, or Elspeth, even Ajani wins me plenty of games. Jace does win games, but not as often as the other walkers.
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UB - Tezzerator 2.0 - UB
8-3-0
(Decklist and blog updated 4/11/2011)
"Fun fact about me: I home brew my buddies meta deck. He went from having a much lower ranking then me to a significantly higher rating since I started doing this."
He's played in every deck that has even the smallest amount of blue in it. You can put him in any deck with blue and that deck gets better, no matter what that deck is trying to do.
But i'm ok with having a format warping broken card, as long as there are ways to beat it, but when shards rotates, idk...
jace does not win games in terms of bringing your opponent down 20 life, as gideon, elspeth or even ajani would, but jace's ca engine is incredibly powerful and ultimately what allows A LOT of games to be won.
Skullclamp wasn't strong because it gave +1 and killed opponents, it gave ridiculous card advantage (and triggered insane DOV triggers with dying artifacts when played in affinity).
I am not saying JMS should be banned, but his ability to CA you and/or prevent your opponent from drawing anything relevant 85% of the time is quite spectacular.
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Montreal, QC
Standard:
Retired.
Modern:
Blitzhelix! RW
EDH (1v1): I am a jerk! RG Tiny Leaders (1v1): BURN! R
As someone who plays him, he is not the wincon for me, more often then not it is on the back of Gideon, or Elspeth, even Ajani wins me plenty of games. Jace does win games, but not as often as the other walkers.
Well you're not using Jace to fateseal your oppoent until you can go ultamite, you use him differently. However, it is very easy to build a deck around protecting Jace, and even in an aggro deck that plays jace, you have to respect his ultimate. I played Mythic, and vs polymorph, i stuck jace turn 3, and just fatesealed until i had his ultimate.
It is indeed, the most powerful planeswalker card in this days.
Idk how would the meta evolve when SoM comes in and Alara leaves...that would be a factor to take for this card, if the environment motivates the card (jace rev. 2) to get overpowered, perhaps it gets restricted, but not banned.
He's the first card ive seen to control your drawings, thats pretty powerful when engined around control and using that ability let's him to "mill" you. That's the thing, he can make you win by itself.
If he gets to the point where every deck splashes for him and that is it, he might be banned, but I still doubt it. With bolts and burn and aggressive creature decks to keep Jace in check, it isn't worth the effort splashing for Jace.
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"Fun fact about me: I home brew my buddies meta deck. He went from having a much lower ranking then me to a significantly higher rating since I started doing this."
I love how everyone defending Jace has a Jace avatar.
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"Fun fact about me: I home brew my buddies meta deck. He went from having a much lower ranking then me to a significantly higher rating since I started doing this."
Not ban-worthy, but until we actually get Brainstorm or something similar in the format, people are going to keep kissing his cheeks all the time.
I have played against Jace, and yes, he is powerful. Ban-worthy? No. Great in other formats? Not really. Because Jace is pretty much the newer Cryptic Command: One of the very few bombshells blue has to offer.
Compare Jace to Cheat'n Sphinx, both well played cards, but one is obviously more powerful and gamebreaking then the other. The other is there just because it gives blue a half-decent finisher.
What do they both have in common? They are hard to deal with.
Finally, the big main difference? Out of the two hard to deal with cards, one of them gives you insane-in-an-almost-unfair-level card advantage. You pay nothing for three great effects turns prior to casting, while you pay 6 just to have a guy who can't be Path'ed.
This is why Jace is the "big bombshell" of blue, and it is why people want him in Standard because he does things that nothing else in Standard can do. There's no Brainstorm, no great card-advantage Unsummon, and no card that does the first ability without any other benefits.
So like Cryptic, they stick three great abilities into one card. The ultimate being for other formats like EDH.
All you have to do is find a way to beat him, such as playing Blue for your own Jace(#1?) and kill using the PW legend rule as one of my friends has done
Reminds me of Kamigawa times, when people sideboarded Jittes in order to destroy the opponent jitte.
I do agree that JMS will not get banned, nor should he, but he is being splashed in decks for the hell of it. I agree with NeoItems, as long as lightning bolt is around, Jace won't be banned. But I wonder if there will ever be a planeswalker that'll be banned.
Reminds me of Kamigawa times, when people sideboarded Jittes in order to destroy the opponent jitte.
lol i run 5 jaces with 2 in the SB when i play UW-not often- becaue of all the jaces in my meta
drop jace1.0 turn 3 and draw, stops a turn 4 jace2.0, and adds a lot of removal/draw potential later. Works quite well.
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Montreal, QC
Standard:
Retired.
Modern:
Blitzhelix! RW
EDH (1v1): I am a jerk! RG Tiny Leaders (1v1): BURN! R
He's played in every deck that has even the smallest amount of blue in it. You can put him in any deck with blue and that deck gets better, no matter what that deck is trying to do.
Have you considered this might be because Grixis, Esper, and Bant are all partially blue? These decks are originally blue to begin with, it's not as if people were taking two colors and splashing blue for Jace.
It goes without saying UW Control would be using Jace, but why shouldn't the above mentioned decks run him?
Naya doesn't splash for him, Jund doesn't splash for him. Decks that don't run blue don't need to splash for him to win.
According to the rules for banning a card, Yes he should. However, i still think he shouldn't or should.
The rule for banning is, do you have to play with or, or plan against it in every deck. If so, it's banned. However, Wizards is a really insane group of people who do whatever they want and don't care about any of the rules they ever make so ya
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Arrest this man he talks in math
The Tea Party is the working class fighting against the man fighting for the working class.
It's called EDH kids, there is no such thing as commander.
Every tier 1 standard deck at the moment except Jund runs Jace. People still complain about Jund, but in reality it's the only thing keeping Jace in check because it has so many ways to deal with him, and keeps him from being played as a 4-of in every single Standard deck. You can quote me on this: when Alara rotates, Jace will skyrocket in price, and you will not be able to play Standard competitively if you do not have a playset of him. Will he be banned? Maybe, but he will be format warping for sure. (He already is, even.)
I hope he is banned. The problem is, he breaks the basic rule of Mythics. Wizards stated that they will NEVER print a mythic staple. However, could you bring a deck that uses blue but no Jace to a PTQ and not get laughed at? Of course not, because the Jaces are essential to any blue deck because they are the srongest card in T2. It provides card advantage similar to Skullclamp, meaning that it has to go.
Every tier 1 standard deck at the moment except Jund runs Jace. People still complain about Jund, but in reality it's the only thing keeping Jace in check because it has so many ways to deal with him, and keeps him from being played as a 4-of in every single Standard deck. You can quote me on this: when Alara rotates, Jace will skyrocket in price, and you will not be able to play Standard competitively if you do not have a playset of him. Will he be banned? Maybe, but he will be format warping for sure. (He already is, even.)
You all realize that if it was Brainstorm in Jaces place, the same decks that use Jace would run that instead right?
You would not be complaining then.
If Cryptic Command was in his place, the same decks would probably run it instead.
Probably would not complain about that either.
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8-3-0
(Decklist and blog updated 4/11/2011)
"Fun fact about me: I home brew my buddies meta deck. He went from having a much lower ranking then me to a significantly higher rating since I started doing this."
I hope he is banned. The problem is, he breaks the basic rule of Mythics. Wizards stated that they will NEVER print a mythic staple. However, could you bring a deck that uses blue but no Jace to a PTQ and not get laughed at? Of course not, because the Jaces are essential to any blue deck because they are the srongest card in T2. It provides card advantage similar to Skullclamp, meaning that it has to go.
Baneslayer is more or less the same thing, ofc than in a lower scale.
Wizards won't ban one of the faces of the game. They will leave Jace 2, the "new Baneslayer" of planeswalkers, as one whom represents the apex of awesome. They will print "answers" for a particular archetype that is associated with Mr. Mind Sculptor eventually... after he's been wreaking havoc in standard for months.
Yeah for mythics dominating standard!!!
edit: nath'd about the mythic bit.. i see i'm not the only one with these concerns
Reminds me of Kamigawa times, when people sideboarded Jittes in order to destroy the opponent jitte.
Yeah, in Superfriends I play 2 Jace Beleren and 3 Jace TMS main. When you drop Jace 1, it locks them out of their Jaces and then you lock them out with Jace 2 once Jace 1 commits suicide. Fun stuff!
The problem with Jace is that he is getting to be over centralizing. He just makes every deck he's in so much better due to the variety of his abilities. He has a function in every matchup, and he excels at everything he does. Currently, he is kept in check by having Jace1 , Maelstrom Pulse, and Oblivion Ring as direct, efficient answers. Indirectly things like Bloodbraid Elf and Vengevine are also great at taking out Jace. I don't think we have to worry about this being a Jitte like fiasco, due to him still having a cost of 4, including double U. Although that doesn't stop him from being over centralizing, it certainly helps. As long as M11 and Scars of Mirrodin include good ways to deal with him, I think he'll be fine in Standard.
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Strictly, Precisely; exactly, restricted to something. When you're not an English major, don't pretend that you are.
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a thought occurred to me is that EVERYBODY is playing with JMS, and winning.
So I offer this question: Will JMS be the first planeswalker banned?
BUG DarkVine 12-2-2
As someone who plays him, he is not the wincon for me, more often then not it is on the back of Gideon, or Elspeth, even Ajani wins me plenty of games. Jace does win games, but not as often as the other walkers.
UB - Tezzerator 2.0 - UB
8-3-0
(Decklist and blog updated 4/11/2011)
"Fun fact about me: I home brew my buddies meta deck. He went from having a much lower ranking then me to a significantly higher rating since I started doing this."
WRONG!
He's played in every deck that has even the smallest amount of blue in it. You can put him in any deck with blue and that deck gets better, no matter what that deck is trying to do.
But i'm ok with having a format warping broken card, as long as there are ways to beat it, but when shards rotates, idk...
Skullclamp wasn't strong because it gave +1 and killed opponents, it gave ridiculous card advantage (and triggered insane DOV triggers with dying artifacts when played in affinity).
I am not saying JMS should be banned, but his ability to CA you and/or prevent your opponent from drawing anything relevant 85% of the time is quite spectacular.
Standard:
Retired.
Modern:
Blitzhelix! RW
EDH (1v1): I am a jerk! RG
Tiny Leaders (1v1): BURN! R
Well you're not using Jace to fateseal your oppoent until you can go ultamite, you use him differently. However, it is very easy to build a deck around protecting Jace, and even in an aggro deck that plays jace, you have to respect his ultimate. I played Mythic, and vs polymorph, i stuck jace turn 3, and just fatesealed until i had his ultimate.
Now this is a very true statement
Idk how would the meta evolve when SoM comes in and Alara leaves...that would be a factor to take for this card, if the environment motivates the card (jace rev. 2) to get overpowered, perhaps it gets restricted, but not banned.
He's the first card ive seen to control your drawings, thats pretty powerful when engined around control and using that ability let's him to "mill" you. That's the thing, he can make you win by itself.
BR RkDW-Aggro | UBR Cruel Grixis-Control
Legacy:
WW Soldier Tribal-Aggro| WW Stax-Control
Modern:
RW Artifact Boros-Aggro | GB The Rock-Midrange
If he gets to the point where every deck splashes for him and that is it, he might be banned, but I still doubt it. With bolts and burn and aggressive creature decks to keep Jace in check, it isn't worth the effort splashing for Jace.
UB - Tezzerator 2.0 - UB
8-3-0
(Decklist and blog updated 4/11/2011)
"Fun fact about me: I home brew my buddies meta deck. He went from having a much lower ranking then me to a significantly higher rating since I started doing this."
This.
It's not as if people see Jace hit the table and then think about scooping.
He's not even an automatic 4 of in many of the decks running him.
David Ochoa: "Mono-bacon!..."
UB - Tezzerator 2.0 - UB
8-3-0
(Decklist and blog updated 4/11/2011)
"Fun fact about me: I home brew my buddies meta deck. He went from having a much lower ranking then me to a significantly higher rating since I started doing this."
I have played against Jace, and yes, he is powerful. Ban-worthy? No. Great in other formats? Not really. Because Jace is pretty much the newer Cryptic Command: One of the very few bombshells blue has to offer.
Compare Jace to Cheat'n Sphinx, both well played cards, but one is obviously more powerful and gamebreaking then the other. The other is there just because it gives blue a half-decent finisher.
What do they both have in common? They are hard to deal with.
Finally, the big main difference? Out of the two hard to deal with cards, one of them gives you insane-in-an-almost-unfair-level card advantage. You pay nothing for three great effects turns prior to casting, while you pay 6 just to have a guy who can't be Path'ed.
This is why Jace is the "big bombshell" of blue, and it is why people want him in Standard because he does things that nothing else in Standard can do. There's no Brainstorm, no great card-advantage Unsummon, and no card that does the first ability without any other benefits.
So like Cryptic, they stick three great abilities into one card. The ultimate being for other formats like EDH.
Reminds me of Kamigawa times, when people sideboarded Jittes in order to destroy the opponent jitte.
BR RkDW-Aggro | UBR Cruel Grixis-Control
Legacy:
WW Soldier Tribal-Aggro| WW Stax-Control
Modern:
RW Artifact Boros-Aggro | GB The Rock-Midrange
lol i run 5 jaces with 2 in the SB when i play UW-not often- becaue of all the jaces in my meta
drop jace1.0 turn 3 and draw, stops a turn 4 jace2.0, and adds a lot of removal/draw potential later. Works quite well.
Standard:
Retired.
Modern:
Blitzhelix! RW
EDH (1v1): I am a jerk! RG
Tiny Leaders (1v1): BURN! R
Have you considered this might be because Grixis, Esper, and Bant are all partially blue? These decks are originally blue to begin with, it's not as if people were taking two colors and splashing blue for Jace.
It goes without saying UW Control would be using Jace, but why shouldn't the above mentioned decks run him?
Naya doesn't splash for him, Jund doesn't splash for him. Decks that don't run blue don't need to splash for him to win.
David Ochoa: "Mono-bacon!..."
The rule for banning is, do you have to play with or, or plan against it in every deck. If so, it's banned. However, Wizards is a really insane group of people who do whatever they want and don't care about any of the rules they ever make so ya
I'd be worried if ALL the meta splashes for blue, then I'd rise my hand and say "HEY, he's everywhere, BAN HIM!"
I run Black-Blue control and don't play him, but well, thats personal.
BR RkDW-Aggro | UBR Cruel Grixis-Control
Legacy:
WW Soldier Tribal-Aggro| WW Stax-Control
Modern:
RW Artifact Boros-Aggro | GB The Rock-Midrange
- whhhhhaaat?
Standard Decks:
UBRGrixis ControlRBU
You all realize that if it was Brainstorm in Jaces place, the same decks that use Jace would run that instead right?
You would not be complaining then.
If Cryptic Command was in his place, the same decks would probably run it instead.
Probably would not complain about that either.
UB - Tezzerator 2.0 - UB
8-3-0
(Decklist and blog updated 4/11/2011)
"Fun fact about me: I home brew my buddies meta deck. He went from having a much lower ranking then me to a significantly higher rating since I started doing this."
Baneslayer is more or less the same thing, ofc than in a lower scale.
BR RkDW-Aggro | UBR Cruel Grixis-Control
Legacy:
WW Soldier Tribal-Aggro| WW Stax-Control
Modern:
RW Artifact Boros-Aggro | GB The Rock-Midrange
Yeah for mythics dominating standard!!!
edit: nath'd about the mythic bit.. i see i'm not the only one with these concerns
Yeah, in Superfriends I play 2 Jace Beleren and 3 Jace TMS main. When you drop Jace 1, it locks them out of their Jaces and then you lock them out with Jace 2 once Jace 1 commits suicide. Fun stuff!
No they didn't. Just stop.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.