this...
"X: Put X Counters on <NAME>.
Remove X Counters from <NAME>: Gain X Life."
equals this... X: Gain X life.
therefore, i doubt this is the answer.
Not True.
The result? Absolutley not.
With Everlasting Torment in play, it's trash. With Stigma Lasher, who says a hit player CANT gain life, you can't even filter mana into it. At least your version. With my version and the counters, you can build up to gain the life in one shot, when it's convenient. Also, Gilder Bairn works with my version..
Sure- it's probably broken, but it could work.
And "Total" - It could say "At the beginning of your upkeep, if you have 100 or more life, you win the game" or some variant around it.
Something like "reveal your library. if you have 100 or more colored mana symbols on the cards in your libarary you win the game"? Maybe they would have to be of the same color though? Such a card seems pretty rediculous, but i think it fits.
That sounds very tedious in casual play. But I agree with your assessment.
It's so ridiculous that it will be spoiled on MtG.com.
I was suprised that no one on this tread mentioned Devin Low's article from Friday on magicthegathering.com. He discussed Chroma and in the article said this
I don't believe we've seen any cards that do this yet and a card that counted mana symbols in your library would probably have to be a large number, so maybe this is the 100?
Something like "reveal your library. if you have 100 or more colored mana symbols on the cards in your libarary you win the game"? Maybe they would have to be of the same color though? Such a card seems pretty rediculous, but i think it fits.
Check the text I posted with the updated orb search list several posts ago. If what I posted isn't almost exactly the same as the actual card, I'll eat a Tarmogoyf.
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Check the text I posted with the updated orb search list several posts ago. If what I posted isn't almost exactly the same as the actual card, I'll eat a Tarmogoyf.
I'm keeping your word on this one....
Haha...Although you gotta start typing in random words to get names for those counters...
With Everlasting Torment in play, it's trash. With Stigma Lasher, who says a hit player CANT gain life, you can't even filter mana into it. At least your version.
Uh, sure you can. The ability will resolve and you will fail to gain any life. Neither Stigma Lasher nor Everlasting Torment will stop you from playing the ability. They simply don't allow you to gain the life.
The name I used was just relating to the illustration.
I actually don't have the name of the card at all, or the type of counters, which I suspect only to be charge counters.
LOL - really
Well, considering that Helix is still unused and that art is a Helix, we can assume that's in the card name.
And I think it's at the beginning of the upkeep because we have those words left over in the orb hit crunch.
I'm still working on the name of the counters. It's not charge or storage, as we don't get orb hits. Whatever it is, it will hit twice, once for the ability and the second for the check. See my speculated card text above.
By the way, Seingalt, are you certain about shroud? That would be pretty awesome.
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Enchantment
Shroud
:xmana:: Put X something counters on Helix Cardname.
At the beginning of your upkeep, if there are 100 something counters on Helix Cardname, you win the game.
This is what it will be. All we have left to find is the rest of the card name and the name of the counters.
It will be either _____ Helix or Helix ________. The counter name may be related to the rest of the name?
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How are you sure it has Shroud? I think WotC would not want this card be invulnerable to most enchant destruction.
I think they would. Think about it: This is much different than the Odyssey block win conditions. This one requires you to invest mana into it in the form of counters on it - imagine if it were Disenchanted at 90 counters! That's 91 mana and a card destroyed by 2 mana and a card. 1/45 of the investment. It makes sense that they want this to be more resilient than those.
I just realized a trick with it, too!
Gilder Bairn.
They even included a nice interaction within the set for us to play with.
The Oros Commander Project: A blog featuring a fully Japanese foil commander deck, updated frequently with insight on acquiring unique and rare cards, the commander format, and whatever else is relevant! Follow me on Twitter!
How are you sure it has Shroud? I think WotC would not this card be invulnerable to most enchant destruction.
I'd have to disagree. Making a card like this easily destroyable would make it completely unplayable. With shroud, it at least has a chance to survive. I mean, putting 100 mana into one card to win the game but it getting killed by a Krosan Grip would really just be horrible.
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but in terms of flavor applying to the card art, the art reminded me of this part of the Eventide novel:
WARNING: SPOILER FOR THE EVENTIDE NOVEL AHEAD. IF YOU DO NOT WISH TO KNOW, DON'T CLICK THE BUTTON!
"Hello," Eidren said. "Are you through toying with the children? The forest wishes to speak to you."
What happened next Brigid could hardly credit later, but then she'd never seen an entire forest - canker-ridden treefolk, living trees, elves, birds, rabbits, springjacks, everything that lived and died in the Wilt-Leaf - grant their own power to a single individual elf. Nor had she ever seen a vision of what the elves called "glory," the highest and most divine form of beauty, until she saw Eidren wield that power against a force of complete destruction...
A column of green lightning slammed into the Destroyer, lifting her off the ground and sending her flying into the sky like a falling star returning home.
I think they would. Think about it: This is much different than the Odyssey block win conditions. This one requires you to invest mana into it in the form of counters on it - imagine if it were Disenchanted at 90 counters! That's 91 mana and a card destroyed by 2 mana and a card. 1/45 of the investment. It makes sense that they want this to be more resilient than those.
I just realized a trick with it, too!
They even included a nice interaction within the set for us to play with.
If it does have shroud, then this trick doesn't work.
I'd have to disagree. Making a card like this easily destroyable would make it completely unplayable. With shroud, it at least has a chance to survive. I mean, putting 100 mana into one card to win the game but it getting killed by a Krosan Grip would really just be horrible.
If you are going to make a deck around this card, you will likely use an infinite mana combo anyways, making that point somewhat moot.
We don't have any X left, so I think the ability will cost 1.
It would be funny if the counters were -1/-1 counters. No rule against that.
The win clause probably says "100 or more" or something like that.
Crap, that's right. Shroud. I always forget this kind of thing. =/
Dopamine, thanks for that bit of flavor. I wonder if we can glean something from that to get the name or the name of the counters.
fnord, good catch. Okay, let's try and get some updated card text up. I want to try and get this right when we see the real thing.
Helix Cardname
Enchantment
Shroud 1: Put 1 something counter on Helix Cardname.
At the beginning of your upkeep, if there are 100 or more something counters on Helix Cardname, you win the game.
The Oros Commander Project: A blog featuring a fully Japanese foil commander deck, updated frequently with insight on acquiring unique and rare cards, the commander format, and whatever else is relevant! Follow me on Twitter!
One problem with that, if the enchantment has shroud then gilder bairn can't target it.
Maybe "can't be the target of spells or abilities your opponents control"?
It could be, we still have 1 abilities and 1 spells left.
I'm calling it right now- worst rare in the set. Even good limited players will find better bombs at common and uncommon no sweat. Worst. Episode. Ever.
I really do predict this to be our worst rare in set award winner. I'd be happier opening a jar of eyeballs, so I think anything worse is highly unlikely. This card wont just have zero constructed potential, but not be significantly better than a mass of ghouls in a draft.
Enchantment
Shroud
:xmana:: Put X something counters on Helix Cardname.
At the beginning of your upkeep, if there are 100 something counters on Helix Cardname, you win the game.
Oops. Your own thread. I was looking in the mana section, not general mechanics.
Hehe, I see how that could be confusing. Anyhow, I think you guys have it, and I wouldnt really put this card having shroud from only opponents, it's just too big of a combo with gilder bairn not to have that. In the best case scenario (in extended and not missing a land drop) it could go like this:
Turn 1: Elves
Turn 2: Gilder Bairn
Turn 3: Helix + 3 counters (count: 3)
Turn 4: Doubling season
Turn 5: Pay 2 to add 4 counters, activate Gilder to put 14 (count: 21)
Turn 6: Pay 3 to add 6, activate Gilder to put 54 (count: 81)
Turn 7: Activate Gilder
Turn 8: Win
Still quite slow, I guess it's better off in a heavy control deck that can hold a war of atrition that in one trying to pull the quickest win, but I think the card has the same playability than Dark Depths :/
I'm calling it right now- worst rare in the set. Even good limited players will find better bombs at common and uncommon no sweat. Worst. Episode. Ever.
I really do predict this to be our worst rare in set award winner. I'd be happier opening a jar of eyeballs, so I think anything worse is highly unlikely. This card wont just have zero constructed potential, but not be significantly better than a mass of ghouls in a draft.
I am not sure why the speculation is so "honed in" on this one possibility, but I just don't see it. No way. That card would be 1)very bad, 2)very non-interactive, and 3)very boring.
Would we honestly expect them to print a card like that? Given their stated opinions on boring and non-interactive win cards?
See this Ask Wizards which someone posted earlier in this thread... the one from June 22, 2007:
Not True.
The result? Absolutley not.
With Everlasting Torment in play, it's trash. With Stigma Lasher, who says a hit player CANT gain life, you can't even filter mana into it. At least your version. With my version and the counters, you can build up to gain the life in one shot, when it's convenient. Also, Gilder Bairn works with my version..
Sure- it's probably broken, but it could work.
And "Total" - It could say "At the beginning of your upkeep, if you have 100 or more life, you win the game" or some variant around it.
It's so ridiculous that it will be spoiled on MtG.com.
Check the text I posted with the updated orb search list several posts ago. If what I posted isn't almost exactly the same as the actual card, I'll eat a Tarmogoyf.
Follow me on Twitter!
I'm keeping your word on this one....
Haha...Although you gotta start typing in random words to get names for those counters...
Uh, sure you can. The ability will resolve and you will fail to gain any life. Neither Stigma Lasher nor Everlasting Torment will stop you from playing the ability. They simply don't allow you to gain the life.
Well, considering that Helix is still unused and that art is a Helix, we can assume that's in the card name.
And I think it's at the beginning of the upkeep because we have those words left over in the orb hit crunch.
I'm still working on the name of the counters. It's not charge or storage, as we don't get orb hits. Whatever it is, it will hit twice, once for the ability and the second for the check. See my speculated card text above.
By the way, Seingalt, are you certain about shroud? That would be pretty awesome.
Follow me on Twitter!
Helix Cardname
Enchantment
Shroud
:xmana:: Put X something counters on Helix Cardname.
At the beginning of your upkeep, if there are 100 something counters on Helix Cardname, you win the game.
This is what it will be. All we have left to find is the rest of the card name and the name of the counters.
It will be either _____ Helix or Helix ________. The counter name may be related to the rest of the name?
Follow me on Twitter!
I think they would. Think about it: This is much different than the Odyssey block win conditions. This one requires you to invest mana into it in the form of counters on it - imagine if it were Disenchanted at 90 counters! That's 91 mana and a card destroyed by 2 mana and a card. 1/45 of the investment. It makes sense that they want this to be more resilient than those.
I just realized a trick with it, too!
Gilder Bairn.
They even included a nice interaction within the set for us to play with.
Follow me on Twitter!
I'd have to disagree. Making a card like this easily destroyable would make it completely unplayable. With shroud, it at least has a chance to survive. I mean, putting 100 mana into one card to win the game but it getting killed by a Krosan Grip would really just be horrible.
WARNING: SPOILER FOR THE EVENTIDE NOVEL AHEAD. IF YOU DO NOT WISH TO KNOW, DON'T CLICK THE BUTTON!
What happened next Brigid could hardly credit later, but then she'd never seen an entire forest - canker-ridden treefolk, living trees, elves, birds, rabbits, springjacks, everything that lived and died in the Wilt-Leaf - grant their own power to a single individual elf. Nor had she ever seen a vision of what the elves called "glory," the highest and most divine form of beauty, until she saw Eidren wield that power against a force of complete destruction...
A column of green lightning slammed into the Destroyer, lifting her off the ground and sending her flying into the sky like a falling star returning home.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=115407
If it does have shroud, then this trick doesn't work.
It would be funny if the counters were -1/-1 counters. No rule against that.
The win clause probably says "100 or more" or something like that.
Practice for Khans of Tarkir Limited:
Draft: (#1) (#2) (#3) (#4) (#5)
Dopamine, thanks for that bit of flavor. I wonder if we can glean something from that to get the name or the name of the counters.
fnord, good catch. Okay, let's try and get some updated card text up. I want to try and get this right when we see the real thing.
Helix Cardname
Enchantment
Shroud
1: Put 1 something counter on Helix Cardname.
At the beginning of your upkeep, if there are 100 or more something counters on Helix Cardname, you win the game.
Follow me on Twitter!
It could be, we still have 1 abilities and 1 spells left.
EDIT: Where you get we have no Xs left?
Oops. Your own thread. I was looking in the mana section, not general mechanics.
Practice for Khans of Tarkir Limited:
Draft: (#1) (#2) (#3) (#4) (#5)
SwDS?!?! IT'S OFF THE CHARTS!!
Hehe, I see how that could be confusing. Anyhow, I think you guys have it, and I wouldnt really put this card having shroud from only opponents, it's just too big of a combo with gilder bairn not to have that. In the best case scenario (in extended and not missing a land drop) it could go like this:
Turn 1: Elves
Turn 2: Gilder Bairn
Turn 3: Helix + 3 counters (count: 3)
Turn 4: Doubling season
Turn 5: Pay 2 to add 4 counters, activate Gilder to put 14 (count: 21)
Turn 6: Pay 3 to add 6, activate Gilder to put 54 (count: 81)
Turn 7: Activate Gilder
Turn 8: Win
Still quite slow, I guess it's better off in a heavy control deck that can hold a war of atrition that in one trying to pull the quickest win, but I think the card has the same playability than Dark Depths :/
Would we honestly expect them to print a card like that? Given their stated opinions on boring and non-interactive win cards?
See this Ask Wizards which someone posted earlier in this thread... the one from June 22, 2007:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/askwizards/0607
Edit: Well, it was just spoiled as such. Congrats on the speculation, tho I still think the card is bad, boring, and non-interactive.