3 mana counterspell. Either barely playable or unplayable.
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Affinity EDH W Akroma GBW Ghave BRU Thrax GR Ruric I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
I'd set this card in the same boat as counterflux. It could be playable if the format if right, but otherwise it's just a 3cmc counterspell with a tricky mana cost.
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Luck isn't the only reason I win. Just most of the reason.
Firstly, OK, it's a counterspell with a slightly more restrictive mana cost than Dissipate or Cancel. However, the only time it's better than either of those is when your opponent intends to play 2 or more spells in one turn, and is unable to do so at instant speed. Remember that your opponent can cast and resolve spells in response to Silence/Render Silent.
So, what kind of deck wants to play 2 spells per turn? I don't play Standard, but the best I can guess is one with Snapcaster Mage in it. In Modern, which I'm more interested in, engine combo decks do - but the only one left is Eggs (thanks for banning Storm and Elves, DCI), and that deck is already notoriously weak to counterspells.
Furthermore, 3 mana is pretty high for a counterspell in Modern. The only playable counterspells at 3 or more mana are Cryptic Command, Condescend and Spell Burst (the latter two only in Tron decks). History does not lend itself strongly to Render Silent being playable in Modern.
Lastly, Silence is not Time Walk. Your opponent can still draw, attack and activate abilities.
All in all, I think this card is merely a 3 mana counterspell with an extremely minor upside in exchange for a worse casting cost. Is that enough to see play? Again, I don't follow Standard, but I'd look to Counterflux for the answer. In Modern, no.
Thing is look at 3 mana counters. I'm not talking standard either. Are any good enough to see play outside a sideboard? I mean great its cancel with silence but last time I check neither had much in game relevance. Maybe the two together might see play... For counter magic to be really good its really gotta be 2 or less. I say this because when your playing your control you want to be playing other stuff too. At 3 mana your talking a reasonable turn 5 to be able to back your 2 mana play. I guess its ok defensively but again who really wants to go back to Draw/GO magic?
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Affinity EDH W Akroma GBW Ghave BRU Thrax GR Ruric I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
Render Silent is good against players who are trying to bait out a counter spell when playing 2 or more cards a turn. It may end up a sideboard card for Control VS Control matches in standard.
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So, what kind of deck wants to play 2 spells per turn? I don't play Standard, but the best I can guess is one with Snapcaster Mage in it. In Modern, which I'm more interested in, engine combo decks do - but the only one left is Eggs (thanks for banning Storm and Elves, DCI), and that deck is already notoriously weak to counterspells.
all of the aggro decks play multiple spells per turn, dropping multiple creatures. naya humans, naya blitz, R/x aggro, etc etc. they all play multiple spells per turn. this is in addition to Esper Control, Bant Control, etc etc, who also play multiple spells (snapcaster into a flashback, farseek and a dude, etc)
everyone is all in a huff about the mana cost. this is meant for Esper/Bant/etc Control, which runs U/W dual lands (in addition to U/G, W/G or U/B W/B) in abundance anyway. if you cant dig :symu::symu::symw: out during play, you have bigger problems than this card.
the bottom line, though, is that in Standard its not going to be as useful as it could be until Avacyn rotates out
So I play a creature, you counter with this, I bolt you to the face in response. Honestly this a slightly better cancel, that's it.
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Affinity EDH W Akroma GBW Ghave BRU Thrax GR Ruric I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
Counterspells are horrible against aggro, because your opponent can get creatures down faster than you can counter them. Your counterspell is 3 mana and your opponent's creatures are mostly 1-2 mana. Burning-Tree Emissary is 2 mana, for example.
Furthermore, you also have to consider that your opponent can Searing Spear in response to Render Silent, or Bloodrush a Ghor-Clan Rampager even after the first spell is countered.
Come on, you guys. One of the first tactics you learn when playing against Blue is how to bait out counterspells and push your critical spells through. That is one of the most basic, most pervasive strategies available and everyone and their mother has been using it for going on twenty years. This card shuts it down.
Of course it is better in the mid-to-late game when your opponent has a manabase sufficient to cast 3-4 spells a turn; the tempo loss suffered by being unable to cast anything can definitely swing the game in your favor.
I see this as a control gem, no reservations. Restrictive mana cost? Wow, I hear U/W control is a thing, and always has been. Oh, hey, might as well throw Bant and Esper midrange/control in as well. Oh, shoot, I forgot about American control. It's also fair to mention that there are no fewer than three full cycles of dual lands available to ease your concerns there.
Seems alright; Cancel with a very narrow but powerful upside. Won't see any Standard play while Dissipate is still in the format, because Dissipate has an easier mana cost and a MUCH better upside in the current environment.
After Dissipate rotates, the playable all-purpose counterspell options we know about will be:
Looking at that list, if UW, Esper, and/or Bant control is a thing this Fall, and we don't get anything better, I like either 4 or 5 depending on the metagame. So it's got a shot.
This card could make some waves in the control mirrors, though. If you're both up a bazillion mana and you're not into milling, often players are looking to play multiple spells (win cons) in one turn in order to force one through. This stops that, ensuring that the matches will be even more exciting.
Fixed your post for you. =)
I'm looking forward to this card, oh how many times I've countered a spell just to have them drop a creature, or countering a creature and having them drop another creature. This locks that down, no more Naya human multiple drops per turn!
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Render Silent would be good stopping for stopping EGGS if you get it off fast enough. Thinking about the meta in Standard; it would only really slow down Burningtree emissary plays or burn. Doesn't really hurt Jund midrange or Junk Reanimator. Looks like its better for control versus control.
I wonder if each guild will have completed its own 3 CMC rares in intants from each set in RTR block with Dragon Maze additions?
Can you respond before the resolve of the cascade trigger of lets say Bloodbraid Elf and counter BBE w/ Render Silent and then the cascaded spell can NOT be cast?
EDIT: Pretty sure I am correct as BBE does not say As you cast it, it says when, for cascade.
People are reaaaally overvaluing the Orim's Chant effect. It's really only relevant pretty late into the game. Not sure you'd want it over Counterflux (assuming you can play either one).
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I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
You keep telling yourself that
Sure it's not broken or anything but it's pretty powerful
A prohibitive mana arrangement at 3 mana? You've gotta be kidding me, WoTC. This is the best you can do for control?
Firstly, OK, it's a counterspell with a slightly more restrictive mana cost than Dissipate or Cancel. However, the only time it's better than either of those is when your opponent intends to play 2 or more spells in one turn, and is unable to do so at instant speed. Remember that your opponent can cast and resolve spells in response to Silence/Render Silent.
So, what kind of deck wants to play 2 spells per turn? I don't play Standard, but the best I can guess is one with Snapcaster Mage in it. In Modern, which I'm more interested in, engine combo decks do - but the only one left is Eggs (thanks for banning Storm and Elves, DCI), and that deck is already notoriously weak to counterspells.
Furthermore, 3 mana is pretty high for a counterspell in Modern. The only playable counterspells at 3 or more mana are Cryptic Command, Condescend and Spell Burst (the latter two only in Tron decks). History does not lend itself strongly to Render Silent being playable in Modern.
Lastly, Silence is not Time Walk. Your opponent can still draw, attack and activate abilities.
All in all, I think this card is merely a 3 mana counterspell with an extremely minor upside in exchange for a worse casting cost. Is that enough to see play? Again, I don't follow Standard, but I'd look to Counterflux for the answer. In Modern, no.
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I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
Standard
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Ghost Council of Orzhova
Vela the Night-Clad
all of the aggro decks play multiple spells per turn, dropping multiple creatures. naya humans, naya blitz, R/x aggro, etc etc. they all play multiple spells per turn. this is in addition to Esper Control, Bant Control, etc etc, who also play multiple spells (snapcaster into a flashback, farseek and a dude, etc)
everyone is all in a huff about the mana cost. this is meant for Esper/Bant/etc Control, which runs U/W dual lands (in addition to U/G, W/G or U/B W/B) in abundance anyway. if you cant dig :symu::symu::symw: out during play, you have bigger problems than this card.
the bottom line, though, is that in Standard its not going to be as useful as it could be until Avacyn rotates out
TBD...
Is it good? Not really.
Does that matter to me? Nope, still an awesome design, and some beautiful art
Shout out to commandercast for keeping me entertained.
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I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
Furthermore, you also have to consider that your opponent can Searing Spear in response to Render Silent, or Bloodrush a Ghor-Clan Rampager even after the first spell is countered.
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Of course it is better in the mid-to-late game when your opponent has a manabase sufficient to cast 3-4 spells a turn; the tempo loss suffered by being unable to cast anything can definitely swing the game in your favor.
I see this as a control gem, no reservations. Restrictive mana cost? Wow, I hear U/W control is a thing, and always has been. Oh, hey, might as well throw Bant and Esper midrange/control in as well. Oh, shoot, I forgot about American control. It's also fair to mention that there are no fewer than three full cycles of dual lands available to ease your concerns there.
Seriously, what is it you all want, anyhow?
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After Dissipate rotates, the playable all-purpose counterspell options we know about will be:
1) Cancel
2) Counterflux
3) Syncopate
4) Render Silent
5) Don't Bother
Looking at that list, if UW, Esper, and/or Bant control is a thing this Fall, and we don't get anything better, I like either 4 or 5 depending on the metagame. So it's got a shot.
Fixed your post for you. =)
I'm looking forward to this card, oh how many times I've countered a spell just to have them drop a creature, or countering a creature and having them drop another creature. This locks that down, no more Naya human multiple drops per turn!
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I wonder if each guild will have completed its own 3 CMC rares in intants from each set in RTR block with Dragon Maze additions?
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EDIT: Pretty sure I am correct as BBE does not say As you cast it, it says when, for cascade.
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