There are several problems with Rewind in current control builds. It's pretty much bad against everything. You just can't afford to sit on 4 mana against aggro, especially in the presence of Cavern. At the crucial turn 4 your main concern is to deal with what's already killing you on the board. You don't have the luxury to maybe counter something with Rewind and flashback a Think Twice for free. The mana advantage is just irrelevant in this situation.
On the other hand, control MUs are not so explosive and are all about hitting land-drops and tapping-out at the appropriate time. Tools like Negate and Dissipate allow one to cast walkers with counter back-up as early, as turn 6-7. (Say, cast a Jace for 4, hold 2 up for Negate). If one is packing Rewinds instead Jace can safely hit the board on turn 8+, which is a huge difference.
To sum it all up, Rewind comes from the dark ages of 16-counterspells monoblue decks. At the time, one of the major ways to fight the permission veil was to present several threats in one turn, and Rewind gave the blue mage an opportunity to counter those threats one after another.
Nowadays, the threats are cheaper and more deadly (GOST, Delver, Messenger) and one can no longer take a few hits from an early drop, than Capsize it and counter on the way back.
So, if you want a hard counter, just go for Dissipate.
There are several problems with Rewind in current control builds. It's pretty much bad against everything. You just can't afford to sit on 4 mana against aggro, especially in the presence of Cavern. At the crucial turn 4 your main concern is to deal with what's already killing you on the board. You don't have the luxury to maybe counter something with Rewind and flashback a Think Twice for free. The mana advantage is just irrelevant in this situation.
On the other hand, control MUs are not so explosive and are all about hitting land-drops and tapping-out at the appropriate time. Tools like Negate and Dissipate allow one to cast walkers with counter back-up as early, as turn 6-7. (Say, cast a Jace for 4, hold 2 up for Negate). If one is packing Rewinds instead Jace can safely hit the board on turn 8+, which is a huge difference.
To sum it all up, Rewind comes from the dark ages of 16-counterspells monoblue decks. At the time, one of the major ways to fight the permission veil was to present several threats in one turn, and Rewind gave the blue mage an opportunity to counter those threats one after another.
Nowadays, the threats are cheaper and more deadly (GOST, Delver, Messenger) and one can no longer take a few hits from an early drop, than Capsize it and counter on the way back.
So, if you want a hard counter, just go for Dissipate.
yeah, that's what i thought. with all the digging r/u can do and the utility/redundancy (on everything you want to do as r/u) provided by the charm i was hoping i could squash it in there. the couple times i could stick a snipe or talrand and rewind something i was very happy, but more burn is what i need...
do people got any sugestions, shuld it just be a counter-burn deck, when you goal is to burn him out? want to get some help becouse i want to make this deck work.
Only have few good burn currently in standard : searing spear, brimstone volley, pillar of flame, geistflame, annihilating fire. Which is still not good enough.
yeah, that's what i thought. with all the digging r/u can do and the utility/redundancy (on everything you want to do as r/u) provided by the charm i was hoping i could squash it in there. the couple times i could stick a snipe or talrand and rewind something i was very happy, but more burn is what i need...
The problem with ur still the same : the hand is run out very quickly. You have to deal with that problem 1st before going further.
===================
What do you think splashing green jusst for 1-2 alchemist refugee?
You played JESUS?!?! I heard none of his guys stay in the graveyard, and once you think you have him beat he ALWAYS comes back to win within three turns. I like...WORSHIP him.
An actor without a director is but a mannequin.
While a director without a writer is unemployed.
But ultimately a writer without words is dead.
~R. D. Newman
"7,015 creatures in existence. They all die to removal."
Never before has a boy wanted more...zombie slaying.
Well I going to be playing UW control and maybe full around with Bant once Gatecrash comes out. I already ordered all the good Rares and Mythics for UW control. I figure most of the stuff will only go up and its nice not having to get jacked at the Pre-Release.
Am I to believe that an Angel of Serenity (a 7 drop mediocre reanimation target) is going to have the SAME value as a Hallowed Fountain? 15 bucks each? Sorry, not going to happen. Not now, not ever.
6 bucks for a Sphinx's Revelation? The value will tank by at least 50% as most of the spells of it's nature (post-Stroke).
In 3 months, say January 1st, it will be interesting to see how much you overpaid.
Dude, sorry to say it, but you overpaid on some of those hardcore.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
*I COLLECT EHAN106 ALTERS. GOT ANY?*
An actor without a director is but a mannequin.
While a director without a writer is unemployed.
But ultimately a writer without words is dead.
~R. D. Newman
"7,015 creatures in existence. They all die to removal."
Never before has a boy wanted more...zombie slaying.
Well I going to be playing UW control and maybe full around with Bant once Gatecrash comes out. I already ordered all the good Rares and Mythics for UW control. I figure most of the stuff will only go up and its nice not having to get jacked at the Pre-Release.
Srsly dude? Unless you are collecting, there's no point of buying 4 serenity, since a deck won't want to have more than 2-3. This goes for sphinx's 1-2, and RIP 1-2 sideboard.
You are wasting a hefty sum of money there. Unless you have unlimited amount of cash.
You played JESUS?!?! I heard none of his guys stay in the graveyard, and once you think you have him beat he ALWAYS comes back to win within three turns. I like...WORSHIP him.
Well I going to be playing UW control and maybe full around with Bant once Gatecrash comes out. I already ordered all the good Rares and Mythics for UW control. I figure most of the stuff will only go up and its nice not having to get jacked at the Pre-Release.
Am I to believe that an Angel of Serenity (a 7 drop mediocre reanimation target) is going to have the SAME value as a Hallowed Fountain? 15 bucks each? Sorry, not going to happen. Not now, not ever.
6 bucks for a Sphinx's Revelation? The value will tank by at least 50% as most of the spells of it's nature (post-Stroke).
Same for a Supreme Verdict. Non-mythic rare AND a box topper? Notice Day of Judgment hit 2 bucks a pop. The inability to be countered doesn't make it triple in value. Wrath of God used to have a much higher value due to the fact it kept the board completely clean. (Pre-indestructible days)
I don't know if a rare O-ring will hit 10 bucks each. Perhaps here is where you could attach the 6 dollar price tag of the previously mentioned two cards.
Hallowed Fountain (15ish), Isperia (4...too high in my opinion), Pithing Needle (2), and Rest in Peace (4) are pretty much the only one's that you didn't over pay for. And two of them are reprints.
In 3 months, say January 1st, it will be interesting to see how much you overpaid.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
*I COLLECT EHAN106 ALTERS. GOT ANY?*
An actor without a director is but a mannequin.
While a director without a writer is unemployed.
But ultimately a writer without words is dead.
~R. D. Newman
"7,015 creatures in existence. They all die to removal."
Never before has a boy wanted more...zombie slaying.
Well I going to be playing UW control and maybe full around with Bant once Gatecrash comes out. I already ordered all the good Rares and Mythics for UW control. I figure most of the stuff will only go up and its nice not having to get jacked at the Pre-Release.
Wow bro I'm sorry You just got ripped off. where did you preorder your cards from?
I have also done some pre-ordering, getting full playsets for almost half of what you spent.
4 Detention Sphere $19.90
4 Isperia, Supreme Judge $7.50
4 (Chinese) Jace, AoT $75
and more
:o:o:o:o:D:D:D:D
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
:cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2:
1. Good Decks Play With Good Cards
2. Good Decks Have Good Plans
3. Good Decks Have Good Mana Bases
4. Good Decks Respect Their Opponents
5. Good Decks Have 75 Cards
6. Sometimes Even Good Decks Are Bad Choices
7. Sometimes Your 'Good Deck' Isn't
:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o
~Metamorph
Well I going to be playing UW control and maybe full around with Bant once Gatecrash comes out. I already ordered all the good Rares and Mythics for UW control. I figure most of the stuff will only go up and its nice not having to get jacked at the Pre-Release.
Azorious... Because of Terminus and Supreme Verdict. You are in HUGE trouble with Izzet if the player is aggro that isn't zombies. G/W is looking to be one of those decks and I can't see Izzet having a very easy time with cards like Wolfir Silverheart and restoration angel, heck even Armada Wurm. Your removal isn't very efficient but your finishers are strong. So maybe something like a Mid-Range Izzet is viable.... but until then I think its best to say that Azorious is better as a CONTROL deck. I personally am working on a deck that is U/W/R control and it has worked out very well.
Am I to believe that an Angel of Serenity (a 7 drop mediocre reanimation target) is going to have the SAME value as a Hallowed Fountain? 15 bucks each? Sorry, not going to happen. Not now, not ever.
6 bucks for a Sphinx's Revelation? The value will tank by at least 50% as most of the spells of it's nature (post-Stroke).
In 3 months, say January 1st, it will be interesting to see how much you overpaid.
Am I to believe that an Angel of Serenity (a 7 drop mediocre reanimation target) is going to have the SAME value as a Hallowed Fountain? 15 bucks each? Sorry, not going to happen. Not now, not ever.
6 bucks for a Sphinx's Revelation? The value will tank by at least 50% as most of the spells of it's nature (post-Stroke).
Same for a Supreme Verdict. Non-mythic rare AND a box topper? Notice Day of Judgment hit 2 bucks a pop. The inability to be countered doesn't make it triple in value. Wrath of God used to have a much higher value due to the fact it kept the board completely clean. (Pre-indestructible days)
I don't know if a rare O-ring will hit 10 bucks each. Perhaps here is where you could attach the 6 dollar price tag of the previously mentioned two cards.
Hallowed Fountain (15ish), Isperia (4...too high in my opinion), Pithing Needle (2), and Rest in Peace (4) are pretty much the only one's that you didn't over pay for. And two of them are reprints.
In 3 months, say January 1st, it will be interesting to see how much you overpaid.
whoa dude. i nearly buying those will-drop-a-lot cards. thanks for telling me
I only perordering 4 Hallowed Fountain, 4 Lyev Skyknight so far.
Hallowed Fountain's price will go up i think, coz the RAV version is $23 dollar worth. lol.
Wow bro I'm sorry You just got ripped off. where did you preorder your cards from?
I have also done some pre-ordering, getting full playsets for almost half of what you spent.
4 Detention Sphere $19.90
4 Isperia, Supreme Judge $7.50
4 (Chinese) Jace, AoT $75
and more
:o:o:o:o:D:D:D:D
Azorious... Because of Terminus and Supreme Verdict. You are in HUGE trouble with Izzet if the player is aggro that isn't zombies. G/W is looking to be one of those decks and I can't see Izzet having a very easy time with cards like Wolfir Silverheart and restoration angel, heck even Armada Wurm. Your removal isn't very efficient but your finishers are strong. So maybe something like a Mid-Range Izzet is viable.... but until then I think its best to say that Azorious is better as a CONTROL deck. I personally am working on a deck that is U/W/R control and it has worked out very well.
Yes i have decided it. so i'll change the 1st post.
You played JESUS?!?! I heard none of his guys stay in the graveyard, and once you think you have him beat he ALWAYS comes back to win within three turns. I like...WORSHIP him.
Moz I got the preorders off of ebay. Seriously what I do is stay away from overhyped cards and order cards before they get hyped by Pro players and writers. I preordered 4x Chinese Jace architect of thought for $75, when everyone dismissed the card as mediocre. I managed to flip those Jace's into 4x Hallowed Fountain, Olivia voldaren, Geist of st traft, Angel of resturation, 2 pithing needles, silverblade paladin, 3 KMC Sleeve packs, and 10 bucks.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
:cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2:
1. Good Decks Play With Good Cards
2. Good Decks Have Good Plans
3. Good Decks Have Good Mana Bases
4. Good Decks Respect Their Opponents
5. Good Decks Have 75 Cards
6. Sometimes Even Good Decks Are Bad Choices
7. Sometimes Your 'Good Deck' Isn't
:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o
~Metamorph
Am I to believe that an Angel of Serenity (a 7 drop mediocre reanimation target) is going to have the SAME value as a Hallowed Fountain? 15 bucks each? Sorry, not going to happen. Not now, not ever.
6 bucks for a Sphinx's Revelation? The value will tank by at least 50% as most of the spells of it's nature (post-Stroke).
In 3 months, say January 1st, it will be interesting to see how much you overpaid.
LOL more like its interesting to see how much profit I made. Serenity went up to $25 and I sold them there. Revelation is now $18 to $20.
Am I to believe that an Angel of Serenity (a 7 drop mediocre reanimation target) is going to have the SAME value as a Hallowed Fountain? 15 bucks each? Sorry, not going to happen. Not now, not ever.
6 bucks for a Sphinx's Revelation? The value will tank by at least 50% as most of the spells of it's nature (post-Stroke).
In 3 months, say January 1st, it will be interesting to see how much you overpaid.
LOL more like its interesting to see how much profit I made. Serenity went up to $25 and I sold them there. Revelation is now $18 to $20.
Funny how card evaluation skills are handy =] I also made 40 dollars profit by buying early when people actually thought it would not be the standard's ultimate finisher.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard - Serious BGU Control R Aggro
Standard - For Fun BG Auras
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On the other hand, control MUs are not so explosive and are all about hitting land-drops and tapping-out at the appropriate time. Tools like Negate and Dissipate allow one to cast walkers with counter back-up as early, as turn 6-7. (Say, cast a Jace for 4, hold 2 up for Negate). If one is packing Rewinds instead Jace can safely hit the board on turn 8+, which is a huge difference.
To sum it all up, Rewind comes from the dark ages of 16-counterspells monoblue decks. At the time, one of the major ways to fight the permission veil was to present several threats in one turn, and Rewind gave the blue mage an opportunity to counter those threats one after another.
Nowadays, the threats are cheaper and more deadly (GOST, Delver, Messenger) and one can no longer take a few hits from an early drop, than Capsize it and counter on the way back.
So, if you want a hard counter, just go for Dissipate.
yeah, that's what i thought. with all the digging r/u can do and the utility/redundancy (on everything you want to do as r/u) provided by the charm i was hoping i could squash it in there. the couple times i could stick a snipe or talrand and rewind something i was very happy, but more burn is what i need...
Too mana intensive.
Only have few good burn currently in standard : searing spear, brimstone volley, pillar of flame, geistflame, annihilating fire. Which is still not good enough.
The problem with ur still the same : the hand is run out very quickly. You have to deal with that problem 1st before going further.
===================
What do you think splashing green jusst for 1-2 alchemist refugee?
My 180 Modern Bordered Only Cube
Syncopate / Dissipate > Rewind
An actor without a director is but a mannequin.
While a director without a writer is unemployed.
But ultimately a writer without words is dead.
~R. D. Newman
"7,015 creatures in existence. They all die to removal."
Never before has a boy wanted more...zombie slaying.
GP Vegas: It was once in a lifetime!
On Vault of the Archangel
I Pre-Ordered
4 Angel of Serenity $59.96
4 Detention Sphere $39.96
4 Hallowed Fountain $59.96
2 Isperia, Supreme Judge $7.98
2 Pithing Needle $3.98
4 Rest in Peace $15.96
4 Sphinx's Revelation $23.96
4 Supreme Verdict $23.96
Came to $245.61 with UPS Ground.
An actor without a director is but a mannequin.
While a director without a writer is unemployed.
But ultimately a writer without words is dead.
~R. D. Newman
"7,015 creatures in existence. They all die to removal."
Never before has a boy wanted more...zombie slaying.
GP Vegas: It was once in a lifetime!
On Vault of the Archangel
Exactly
Srsly dude? Unless you are collecting, there's no point of buying 4 serenity, since a deck won't want to have more than 2-3. This goes for sphinx's 1-2, and RIP 1-2 sideboard.
You are wasting a hefty sum of money there. Unless you have unlimited amount of cash.
Lol. So true.
My 180 Modern Bordered Only Cube
Now that I'm on a laptop instead of my phone...
Am I to believe that an Angel of Serenity (a 7 drop mediocre reanimation target) is going to have the SAME value as a Hallowed Fountain? 15 bucks each? Sorry, not going to happen. Not now, not ever.
6 bucks for a Sphinx's Revelation? The value will tank by at least 50% as most of the spells of it's nature (post-Stroke).
Same for a Supreme Verdict. Non-mythic rare AND a box topper? Notice Day of Judgment hit 2 bucks a pop. The inability to be countered doesn't make it triple in value. Wrath of God used to have a much higher value due to the fact it kept the board completely clean. (Pre-indestructible days)
I don't know if a rare O-ring will hit 10 bucks each. Perhaps here is where you could attach the 6 dollar price tag of the previously mentioned two cards.
Hallowed Fountain (15ish), Isperia (4...too high in my opinion), Pithing Needle (2), and Rest in Peace (4) are pretty much the only one's that you didn't over pay for. And two of them are reprints.
In 3 months, say January 1st, it will be interesting to see how much you overpaid.
An actor without a director is but a mannequin.
While a director without a writer is unemployed.
But ultimately a writer without words is dead.
~R. D. Newman
"7,015 creatures in existence. They all die to removal."
Never before has a boy wanted more...zombie slaying.
GP Vegas: It was once in a lifetime!
On Vault of the Archangel
Wow bro I'm sorry You just got ripped off. where did you preorder your cards from?
I have also done some pre-ordering, getting full playsets for almost half of what you spent.
4 Detention Sphere $19.90
4 Isperia, Supreme Judge $7.50
4 (Chinese) Jace, AoT $75
and more
:o:o:o:o:D:D:D:D
:cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2:
1. Good Decks Play With Good Cards
2. Good Decks Have Good Plans
3. Good Decks Have Good Mana Bases
4. Good Decks Respect Their Opponents
5. Good Decks Have 75 Cards
6. Sometimes Even Good Decks Are Bad Choices
7. Sometimes Your 'Good Deck' Isn't
:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o
~Metamorph
I take a wager you bought AoS from SCG ? Seriously, I think u overpaid for Angel of Serenity, Hallowed Fountain and Sphinx's Revelation.
Ebay is ur pal for this. Check out my attachments to check some of the bargains I snagged.
Back on topic. I agree with your choices for WU control, it is turning out to be solid(just not at those prices).
whoa dude. i nearly buying those will-drop-a-lot cards. thanks for telling me
I only perordering 4 Hallowed Fountain, 4 Lyev Skyknight so far.
Hallowed Fountain's price will go up i think, coz the RAV version is $23 dollar worth. lol.
Where do you preorder cards which not a playset?
Sphinx's Revelation maybe yes. Hallowed Fountain? I don't think so.
Yes i have decided it. so i'll change the 1st post.
My 180 Modern Bordered Only Cube
:cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2:
1. Good Decks Play With Good Cards
2. Good Decks Have Good Plans
3. Good Decks Have Good Mana Bases
4. Good Decks Respect Their Opponents
5. Good Decks Have 75 Cards
6. Sometimes Even Good Decks Are Bad Choices
7. Sometimes Your 'Good Deck' Isn't
:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o
~Metamorph
LOL more like its interesting to see how much profit I made. Serenity went up to $25 and I sold them there. Revelation is now $18 to $20.
Funny how card evaluation skills are handy =] I also made 40 dollars profit by buying early when people actually thought it would not be the standard's ultimate finisher.
BGU Control
R Aggro
Standard - For Fun
BG Auras