Gemstone Caverns
Legendary Land
If Gemstone Caverns is in your opening hand and you're not playing first, you may begin the game with Gemstone Caverns in play with a luck counter on it. If you do, remove a card in your hand from the game.
Tap: Add 1 to your mana pool. If Gemstone Caverns has a luck counter on it, instead add one mana of any color to your mana pool.
I think this card is great for sideboards when you lose game 1 or 2. People are almost garanteed to "Play first" these days, but maybe not so much anymore. I think that the "risk" of not having this in your opening hand, like the Leylines, might be too much to make it playable, or perhaps the "remove a card in your hand from the game" clause.
I dunno, discuss.
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Getting the last word does not mean that you win the argument.
Like I said in the other thread, if this card was only legendary when it had a luck counter, then it would be savage since multiples drawn later wouldn't be dead. As it stands right now, you want to run 4 and go second, but you would only want to draw 1 of them. If you got an opening hand of 4 of them and no other lands, you would probably have to mulligan it. So it is really a hard card to figure out. probably need to see what the TS environment will be like.
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Honestly, I think this card will be good. What with Compulsive Research already around for pitching lands and lightning storm getting all sort of love, it makes late game draws not useless. I'm sure other colors will be able to think of ways to use it (although green wont need it, so that leaves Black and White to 'break' it).
i think this card is Freakin' awesome just imagine zoo with this even on the draw u flex "Nutz" any mana drawing the extra card u can pitch and turning up the gas on tempo and it still taps for mana easily a 3 of most likely a 4 of
i think this card is Freakin' awesome just imagine zoo with this even on the draw u flex "Nutz" any mana drawing the extra card u can pitch and turning up the gas on tempo and it still taps for mana easily a 3 of most likely a 4 of
i think this card is Freakin' awesome just imagine zoo with this even on the draw u flex "Nutz" any mana drawing the extra card u can pitch and turning up the gas on tempo and it still taps for mana easily a 3 of most likely a 4 of
Ahem:
"I think is card is quite solid. When you're on the draw, you can use it to "sieze the tempo" and go back on the aggro, hitting a two-drop before your opponent. I feel that the card will probably be a 3-of in aggro decks; likely, a four-of."
...I think.
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Bah, my idea: Trade them off for a huge value after you get them Then laugh at noob who traded them from you and look at their prize after 3 weeks from their legallitity
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The Sage is occupied with the unspoken
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
Gemstone Caverns
Legendary Land
If Gemstone Caverns is in your opening hand and you're not playing first, you may begin the game with Gemstone Caverns in play with a luck counter on it. If you do, remove a card in your hand from the game.
Tap: Add 1 to your mana pool. If Gemstone Caverns has a luck counter on it, instead add one mana of any color to your mana pool.
I think this card is great for sideboards when you lose game 1 or 2. People are almost garanteed to "Play first" these days, but maybe not so much anymore. I think that the "risk" of not having this in your opening hand, like the Leylines, might be too much to make it playable, or perhaps the "remove a card in your hand from the game" clause.
I dunno, discuss.
With certain decks you always want to go first. With this card you are "essentially" going first even if you lose the dice roll.
This card is gonna be somewhere in between the sentiments of everyone who's posted so far. It's not OMGZ!@!!! great but it's not horrible either. It WILL be a one of (and only a one of) in every single deck since if you get it it'll be really really good - a la the Kamigawa Legendary Lands. So don't expect to see this at really high demand but still wanted for decks.
I know one deck that would, could, and will play this card: Magnivore. That deck thrives on going first, and by running 2-3 Gemstone Mines, you have the ability to go first even when you go second(sometimes).
It's a crap rare. I already stated this in the other thread, but there honestly isn't a ton of reason to play this over even like a basic land or something. You have to be playing second for it to work well at all, and then you don't want multiples either. I just don't think this card is worth the risks attached to it.
i think this card is Freakin' awesome just imagine zoo with this even on the draw u flex "Nutz" any mana drawing the extra card u can pitch and turning up the gas on tempo and it still taps for mana easily a 3 of most likely a 4 of
Quote from ThatGuyThere »
Ahem:
"I think is card is quite solid. When you're on the draw, you can use it to "sieze the tempo" and go back on the aggro, hitting a two-drop before your opponent. I feel that the card will probably be a 3-of in aggro decks; likely, a four-of."
...I think.
That was a rabid spike to english translation, if there was no 500 char limit on the sig, it would so be there. :XD: lol!
Anyhoo, about the Caverns, I have to say while the idea is realy solid, it has been poorly exicuted. Its not bad because it is legendary, its not bad because
it's power is porportional to turn order, and it's not bad because it requires one to pitch a card: Its poor because it requires all three to be "good." Wizards just had to make sure that this wasn't the next Mox. (ZOMG!)
It's not terrible but it will take a very imaginative spike (a rarity indeed) to make this card viable in any format.
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Sets in Progress:
Genesis Complete!!! 306/306
(Land centered mechanics Affinity for lands; Synergy with lands (Affinity for activated abilities)
(Extended-ish Power level) PM me if you are interested
Awakening ?/180: Features Domain, with more land comes more mastery over the elements. Channel and Growth are expanded making landcasting more interesting.
Turn 1 You play a land, make a 1-mana play.
Turn 2 Opponent draws, plays a land, makes a 1-mana play. Turn 3 You draw, play a land, make a 2-mana play.
Turn 4 Opponent draws, plays a land, makes a 2-mana play.
Going second without Gemstone Caverns:
Turn 1 Opponent plays a land, makes a 1-mana play. Turn 2 You draw, play a land, make a 1-mana play.
Turn 3 Opponent draws, plays a land, makes a 2-mana play.
Turn 4 You draw, play a land, make a 2-mana play.
Going second with Gemstone Caverns:
Turn 1 Opponent plays a land, you begin with Gemstone Caverns in play, opponent makes a 1-mana play. Turn 2 You draw, play a land, make a 2-mana play.
Turn 3 Opponent draws, plays a land, makes a 2-mana play.
Turn 4 You draw, play a land, make a 3-mana play.
See the difference? Going second with Gemstone Caverns is equivalent to going first without having an additional 1-mana play. Going second without Gemstone Caverns makes you play catch-up since all your plays will be 1 mana less than the opponent's (this is in exchange for the extra card you draw, which, if compared to Obsessive Search, might be equivalent to the 1-mana play you missed).
Mulliganing also reduce your starting hand size but will probably give you a better or at least more consistent hand. This card also reduces your hand size and gives you mana fixing and land acceleration (worth at least 2 mana like Rampant Growth, StE, Farseek, etc.) When it is good, it is REALLY good, and when it isn't good, it's not much worse than many special lands people are playing already.
If you have 2 of it in hand, you can remove the second to use the first. The manabase of R/G wasn't ruined by an extra Skargg or so, and U/R still plays a whopping 12+ colorless lands without ruining its manabase. When not used, a land that just taps for 1 isn't terrible when compared to some others that CIP tapped or whatnot.
If you have 2 of it in hand, you can remove the second to use the first. The manabase of R/G wasn't ruined by an extra Skargg or so, and U/R still plays a whopping 12+ colorless lands without ruining its manabase. When not used, a land that just taps for 1 isn't terrible when compared to some others that CIP tapped or whatnot.
Wow, that's actually fairly brilliant; I'm surprised I hadn't though of that myself. Still, while I think this card is very good, I don't think it's an 'auto' anything; some of the biggest parts about it is that it takes a lot of thought to use. I expect it will see play in some good decks, and not in others... honestly, I'm not sure I'd touch it with a 10 ft pole in a competitive sense without a math degree, though.
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Possibly the last remaining member of the Banana Clan (+1)
Banana of the Month Feb '05 Cool stuff here.
Its interesting that, despite doing one of the most basic things in the game (creating mana), Gemstone Cavern will require so much thought and deck design to be good.
I'm really seeing a U/X(/x?) control deck using this, with the much mentioned Compulsive Research as well as Trade Routes to dispose of extra copies.
If you're playing this at all, you should be playing second every game. You also want 4 copies. You want it (obviously) in your opening hand, and ideally you want 2 in your opening hand (pitch the 2nd for the 1st). Anything less than 4 gives you little chance of this. There is no reason to play 1 or 2 of these (unless your intention is a pseudo-Wasteland against your opponents Cavern). With 1 or 2, the chances are weighted far too heavily towards it being a generic land.
If you're playing this at all, you should be playing second every game.
Look at my analysis on the last page and you'll see that this lets you almost go first even if you go second. If you win the flip, why in the world would you want to go second?!?
This is complete crap. I fully expect this card to be the next Pillar of the Paruns; liked in the beginning, laughed at later on.
1. Have to go second??? I can't remember one constructed deck that wanted to draw first.
2. Remove a card in hand? Granted it's any card you want, regardless of type. But then it's no better than Chrome Mox. And I don't remember Chrome Mox as an auto-include.
3. Have to have it in opening hand while being legendary? That right there kills the card. I don't think I have to explain why it's contradictory.
Maybe if it wasn't legendary, that might warrant consideration like Tendo Ice Bridge received. This would be no better than if Tendo was made legendary...
Look at my analysis on the last page and you'll see that this lets you almost go first even if you go second. If you win the flip, why in the world would you want to go second?!?
Because with even with 4 there's a 60% chance that it won't be in your starting hand.
But you'll hopefully not be maindecking 4 because this card is trash after you have one out.
The way I see it, I'll probably get two, and through then into every deck I own. Then its a just a little buffer if I have to go second. You can't "Build a Deck" around this card. It will always be a "maybe" when people talk about its use. I see at as one of the random aspects of magic.
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When I was young, the smallest trick of light,
Could catch my eye,
Then life was new and every new day,
I thought that I could fly.
I believed in what I hoped for,
And I hoped for things unseen,
I had wings and dreams could soar,
I just don't feel like flying anymore.
hey,
remember when there was that U/W cloupost based control deck during onslaught mirrodin type 2 that always chose to go second due weathered wayfarere among other reasons. this could be a good combo,
u could prob put this in a deck along with wayfarers and tron and one ghost quarter, etc, I think its a playable card, certainly for control if not aggro because decks like vore thrive when they go first because they 2 land before their opponent and this card essentially gurantees u that first turn boomerand or eye for the small cost of maybe a hammer, sleight or something,
Personally id wanna get a set of these becasue there prob really good combos with these
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who is the one that is supposed to watch the one that is supposed to watch the other one?
-a great mind
I still don't understand why it was nerfed to hell. The original version was not legendary and you didn't have to remove a card from your hand. Now, the original was kinda broken if you got multiples.
However, they decided to nerf it not once, but twice. Just making it legendary would have made it unbroken, as you can never have a multiple. But adding the "RFG a card" line just made it unplayable, in my mind. Either one of those would have made it playable, but not nearly broken. But since they did both, I just don't see it being played.
Has anyone thought to proxy it into a deck and test it to chek if it's useful or not? ALot of talk about this card's use in aggro, so stick some of these into a Gruul Beats deck and see if they end up as dead cards, or prve useful.
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{:: ::}
"The means justify the ends."
- Vince McMahon
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Legendary Land
If Gemstone Caverns is in your opening hand and you're not playing first, you may begin the game with Gemstone Caverns in play with a luck counter on it. If you do, remove a card in your hand from the game.
Tap: Add 1 to your mana pool. If Gemstone Caverns has a luck counter on it, instead add one mana of any color to your mana pool.
I think this card is great for sideboards when you lose game 1 or 2. People are almost garanteed to "Play first" these days, but maybe not so much anymore. I think that the "risk" of not having this in your opening hand, like the Leylines, might be too much to make it playable, or perhaps the "remove a card in your hand from the game" clause.
I dunno, discuss.
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Can somebody translate that please?
Ahem:
"I think is card is quite solid. When you're on the draw, you can use it to "sieze the tempo" and go back on the aggro, hitting a two-drop before your opponent. I feel that the card will probably be a 3-of in aggro decks; likely, a four-of."
...I think.
Azerbaijan is strong in the Google-Fu. He is my hero!
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
With certain decks you always want to go first. With this card you are "essentially" going first even if you lose the dice roll.
No Deck Needs 8 ***'s.
The Bible = Tech
That was a rabid spike to english translation, if there was no 500 char limit on the sig, it would so be there. :XD: lol!
Anyhoo, about the Caverns, I have to say while the idea is realy solid, it has been poorly exicuted. Its not bad because it is legendary, its not bad because
it's power is porportional to turn order, and it's not bad because it requires one to pitch a card: Its poor because it requires all three to be "good." Wizards just had to make sure that this wasn't the next Mox. (ZOMG!)
It's not terrible but it will take a very imaginative spike (a rarity indeed) to make this card viable in any format.
Genesis Complete!!! 306/306
(Land centered mechanics Affinity for lands; Synergy with lands (Affinity for activated abilities)
(Extended-ish Power level) PM me if you are interested
Awakening ?/180: Features Domain, with more land comes more mastery over the elements. Channel and Growth are expanded making landcasting more interesting.
Going first without Gemstone Caverns:
Turn 1 You play a land, make a 1-mana play.
Turn 2 Opponent draws, plays a land, makes a 1-mana play.
Turn 3 You draw, play a land, make a 2-mana play.
Turn 4 Opponent draws, plays a land, makes a 2-mana play.
Going second without Gemstone Caverns:
Turn 1 Opponent plays a land, makes a 1-mana play.
Turn 2 You draw, play a land, make a 1-mana play.
Turn 3 Opponent draws, plays a land, makes a 2-mana play.
Turn 4 You draw, play a land, make a 2-mana play.
Going second with Gemstone Caverns:
Turn 1 Opponent plays a land, you begin with Gemstone Caverns in play, opponent makes a 1-mana play.
Turn 2 You draw, play a land, make a 2-mana play.
Turn 3 Opponent draws, plays a land, makes a 2-mana play.
Turn 4 You draw, play a land, make a 3-mana play.
See the difference? Going second with Gemstone Caverns is equivalent to going first without having an additional 1-mana play. Going second without Gemstone Caverns makes you play catch-up since all your plays will be 1 mana less than the opponent's (this is in exchange for the extra card you draw, which, if compared to Obsessive Search, might be equivalent to the 1-mana play you missed).
Mulliganing also reduce your starting hand size but will probably give you a better or at least more consistent hand. This card also reduces your hand size and gives you mana fixing and land acceleration (worth at least 2 mana like Rampant Growth, StE, Farseek, etc.) When it is good, it is REALLY good, and when it isn't good, it's not much worse than many special lands people are playing already.
If you have 2 of it in hand, you can remove the second to use the first. The manabase of R/G wasn't ruined by an extra Skargg or so, and U/R still plays a whopping 12+ colorless lands without ruining its manabase. When not used, a land that just taps for 1 isn't terrible when compared to some others that CIP tapped or whatnot.
Wow, that's actually fairly brilliant; I'm surprised I hadn't though of that myself. Still, while I think this card is very good, I don't think it's an 'auto' anything; some of the biggest parts about it is that it takes a lot of thought to use. I expect it will see play in some good decks, and not in others... honestly, I'm not sure I'd touch it with a 10 ft pole in a competitive sense without a math degree, though.
Possibly the last remaining member of the Banana Clan (+1)
Banana of the Month Feb '05
Cool stuff here.
I'm really seeing a U/X(/x?) control deck using this, with the much mentioned Compulsive Research as well as Trade Routes to dispose of extra copies.
If you're playing this at all, you should be playing second every game. You also want 4 copies. You want it (obviously) in your opening hand, and ideally you want 2 in your opening hand (pitch the 2nd for the 1st). Anything less than 4 gives you little chance of this. There is no reason to play 1 or 2 of these (unless your intention is a pseudo-Wasteland against your opponents Cavern). With 1 or 2, the chances are weighted far too heavily towards it being a generic land.
Yes.
Will it see play in some sideboards possibly?
Yes.
Is it an auto-include?
No.
Would it see a lot more play it it weren't legendary?
Yes.
My Altered Art Gallery
Look at my analysis on the last page and you'll see that this lets you almost go first even if you go second. If you win the flip, why in the world would you want to go second?!?
1. Have to go second??? I can't remember one constructed deck that wanted to draw first.
2. Remove a card in hand? Granted it's any card you want, regardless of type. But then it's no better than Chrome Mox. And I don't remember Chrome Mox as an auto-include.
3. Have to have it in opening hand while being legendary? That right there kills the card. I don't think I have to explain why it's contradictory.
Maybe if it wasn't legendary, that might warrant consideration like Tendo Ice Bridge received. This would be no better than if Tendo was made legendary...
Because with even with 4 there's a 60% chance that it won't be in your starting hand.
But you'll hopefully not be maindecking 4 because this card is trash after you have one out.
My Altered Art Gallery
Could catch my eye,
Then life was new and every new day,
I thought that I could fly.
I believed in what I hoped for,
And I hoped for things unseen,
I had wings and dreams could soar,
I just don't feel like flying anymore.
remember when there was that U/W cloupost based control deck during onslaught mirrodin type 2 that always chose to go second due weathered wayfarere among other reasons. this could be a good combo,
u could prob put this in a deck along with wayfarers and tron and one ghost quarter, etc, I think its a playable card, certainly for control if not aggro because decks like vore thrive when they go first because they 2 land before their opponent and this card essentially gurantees u that first turn boomerand or eye for the small cost of maybe a hammer, sleight or something,
Personally id wanna get a set of these becasue there prob really good combos with these
-a great mind
Awesome banner by R & Doom
However, they decided to nerf it not once, but twice. Just making it legendary would have made it unbroken, as you can never have a multiple. But adding the "RFG a card" line just made it unplayable, in my mind. Either one of those would have made it playable, but not nearly broken. But since they did both, I just don't see it being played.
"The means justify the ends."
- Vince McMahon