Here is how I interpret the information given in the press release.
Your guild pack will contain 2x [RTR] boosters (one standard, one guild booster), 2x [GTC] boosters (one standard, one guild booster) and 2x [DGM] boosters (both standard boosters).
Advantages:
* Re-uses the previously manufactured guild boosters, saving costs for WotC;
* Guarantees four guildgates for mana-fixing, at least one of which is in your chosen guild (assuming you don't get any shocks in your DGM packs);
* Follows the 2x [1ST], 2x [2ND], 2x [3RD] booster package format as seen in previous final small set prereleases.
If the above is true, then this leaves three possibilities for the off-guild guild booster. Either:
(1) Your off-guild booster randomly shares a colour, i.e. you choose Azorius, you might get Dimir (25%), Simic (25%), Orzhov (25%) or Boros (25%), but not Gruul (0%).
(2) Your off-guild booster is random, i.e. Azorius is chosen, each of the GTC guilds appear with a 20% chance
(3) Your off-guild booster is predetermined, i.e. you chose Azorius, that's got a control-style mechanic, so WotC has fixed every Azorius guildpack with a Orzhov guild booster, which is the most control style mechanic from GTC.
I'm inclined to think WotC will go with option (3). Option (1) might also be possible, but I doubt they would go option (2) because the Azorius player who gets a Gruul guild booster is going to be disappointed.
If they go option (3), then I predict the following pairings:
* Azorius/Orzhov, for the control-style player and mechanics;
* Golgari/Simic, for players who like to make their creatures bigger, and both use +1/+1 counters;
* Rakdos/Dimir, because both mechanics are against blocking relative to attacking;
* Selesnya/Boros, because both mechanics function only if creatures are already on the board;
* Izzet/Gruul, a less obvious pairing, but I see this as the 'combat tricks' pairing.
The above assumes that regardless of whether you pick Azorius or Orzhov, you get the same package except for the dice and the other non-essential bonuses.
Alternatively, WotC may make the pairings non-symmetric, giving ten predetermined guild packs. For example:
* You picked Dimir, you get Azorius off-guild (100%) because Detain will help your Ciphers to go through
* You picked Azorius, you get Orzhov off-guild (100%) because both are control mechanics
* You picked Orzhov, you get Golgari off-guild
* You picked Golgari, you get Simic, because of the +1/+1 token synergy
* You picked Simic, you get Izzet
* You picked Izzet, you get Gruul
* You picked Gruul, you get Selesnya
* You picked Selesnya, you get Boros off-guild, because your extra tokens will help trigger battalion
* You picked Boros, you get Rakdos, because both favor attacking
* You picked Rakdos, you get Dimir, because both favor attacking
This latter option would make for a much more varied prerelease, but I'm having trouble finding a cycle of ten pairings that makes sense logically.
Sorry for the length of this post. My key point is about the selection of six boosters. Given the printing cost saved by reusing previous boosters, I really can't see them doing anything else, especially as this fits in exactly with what they describe in the press release.
There are ten guild packs, but they all support two different guilds? That's weird. Makes me wonder if they meant "two different colours" and not "two different guilds."
Though, I would love playing a Boros/Selesnya deck!
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The shocklands will drop in price, probably in half. So many of these cards will be open. Even if the frequency is something like 2 or 3 a box ( I would imagine it is more like 4 to 5 shocklands a box). Then it is going to be super fun to draft Dragon's Maze on MTGO. So much potential for mana fixing/value.
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I just want people who redraft to admit this:
"I can't draft objectively unless I am able to guarantee that I receive at least 3 rares. I am also better than most average/new players so I want to make sure that I get the best rares and they end up with worse ones. I care more about the monetary value of cards than actually playing the game for decent prizes."
Wow, all 10 shocks in DGM? What a way to sell the set.
The prize as a foil basic land is so weird. It must be something special, like the 6th land type. I guess that's the 20th anniversary gimmick, the 6th land type.
You also won't be able to get a foil shockland in DGM afaik.
As far as we know currently you can't. All we know is no basic lands in the "land slot" in packs. We know that the Gates/Shocks will be there. I imagine there will be a "Maze" card in this slot as well as the mythic land that was mentioned.
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I just want people who redraft to admit this:
"I can't draft objectively unless I am able to guarantee that I receive at least 3 rares. I am also better than most average/new players so I want to make sure that I get the best rares and they end up with worse ones. I care more about the monetary value of cards than actually playing the game for decent prizes."
Curious why people think the price of shocks will drop that much? It is just one more set and since its all 10 the number pulled should be half of either RTR or GTC. So shouldn't the price fall less? I don't play paper magic(yet..) but I fail to see how the value would halve from what the RTR stabilized prices are?
I'm guessing that the foil basic land might be full-art. People have been clamoring for full-art lands in every set since Zendikar, but especially for Return to Ravnica, which already has gorgeous basic land art. They don't want to use full-art lands often to keep them something special, but as a promo for one event they would certainly keep that specialness.
I'm guessing that the foil basic land might be full-art. People have been clamoring for full-art lands in every set since Zendikar, but especially for Return to Ravnica, which already has gorgeous basic land art. They don't want to use full-art lands often to keep them something special, but as a promo for one event they would certainly keep that specialness.
But what color u chose 1 u alienate 4 you choose purple city and the world gets turn on its head.
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Loving this announcement. I was wondering what they were going to do to keep the mana bases stable for drafting DGM - GTC - RTR when they had already used the Shocks and Gates in the first two sets.
Re-printing both Shocks and Gates in the basic land slot is a stroke of genius and something that makes a ton of sense once you're open to the idea.
I'm guessing that the foil basic land might be full-art. People have been clamoring for full-art lands in every set since Zendikar, but especially for Return to Ravnica, which already has gorgeous basic land art. They don't want to use full-art lands often to keep them something special, but as a promo for one event they would certainly keep that specialness.
The full art would be amazing on the Mythic Rare land...
Here is how I interpret the information given in the press release.
Your guild pack will contain 2x [RTR] boosters (one standard, one guild booster), 2x [GTC] boosters (one standard, one guild booster) and 2x [DGM] boosters (both standard boosters).
Advantages:
* Re-uses the previously manufactured guild boosters, saving costs for WotC;
* Guarantees four guildgates for mana-fixing, at least one of which is in your chosen guild (assuming you don't get any shocks in your DGM packs);
* Follows the 2x [1ST], 2x [2ND], 2x [3RD] booster package format as seen in previous final small set prereleases.
This has been what I've been thinking. Though note that they can't use the same exact guild boosters, since they'll need to remove the guild promos. I also suspect that there will be some form of guild pack that includes DGM cards, since it would be silly to not support your guild decision with the new cards for that guild.
If the above is true, then this leaves three possibilities for the off-guild guild booster. Either:
(1) Your off-guild booster randomly shares a colour, i.e. you choose Azorius, you might get Dimir (25%), Simic (25%), Orzhov (25%) or Boros (25%), but not Gruul (0%).
(2) Your off-guild booster is random, i.e. Azorius is chosen, each of the GTC guilds appear with a 20% chance
(3) Your off-guild booster is predetermined, i.e. you chose Azorius, that's got a control-style mechanic, so WotC has fixed every Azorius guildpack with a Orzhov guild booster, which is the most control style mechanic from GTC.
I'm inclined to think WotC will go with option (3). Option (1) might also be possible, but I doubt they would go option (2) because the Azorius player who gets a Gruul guild booster is going to be disappointed.
If they go option (3), then I predict the following pairings:
* Azorius/Orzhov, for the control-style player and mechanics;
* Golgari/Simic, for players who like to make their creatures bigger, and both use +1/+1 counters;
* Rakdos/Dimir, because both mechanics are against blocking relative to attacking;
* Selesnya/Boros, because both mechanics function only if creatures are already on the board;
* Izzet/Gruul, a less obvious pairing, but I see this as the 'combat tricks' pairing.
The above assumes that regardless of whether you pick Azorius or Orzhov, you get the same package except for the dice and the other non-essential bonuses.
I suspect (1) but hope for (3). However, I disagree with your examples--why give a control-style mechanic to a guild that already has one? If we're looking for actual variety, it would make much more sense to choose a supporting guild that has different strengths and weaknesses, rather than more of the same.
A good example of what I would consider a solid combination would be an Izzet pack having Boros as the secondary guild. Izzet can have big, splashy effects from its spells, but didn't play well in limited. The aggressive nature of Boros cards would let the Izzet player stay in the game long enough to take advantage of what the guild has to offer.
Alternatively, WotC may make the pairings non-symmetric, giving ten predetermined guild packs. For example:
* You picked Dimir, you get Azorius off-guild (100%) because Detain will help your Ciphers to go through
* You picked Azorius, you get Orzhov off-guild (100%) because both are control mechanics
* You picked Orzhov, you get Golgari off-guild
* You picked Golgari, you get Simic, because of the +1/+1 token synergy
* You picked Simic, you get Izzet
* You picked Izzet, you get Gruul
* You picked Gruul, you get Selesnya
* You picked Selesnya, you get Boros off-guild, because your extra tokens will help trigger battalion
* You picked Boros, you get Rakdos, because both favor attacking
* You picked Rakdos, you get Dimir, because both favor attacking
This latter option would make for a much more varied prerelease, but I'm having trouble finding a cycle of ten pairings that makes sense logically.
The nature of the guild packs in the past two prereleases makes me think that nonsymmetrical pairings is going to be the name of the game, if they're predetermined. Again, I disagree with your specific examples, but that's probably a matter of personal taste.
I've been wracking my brain, trying to come up with ten two-guild combinations that gives us the ten three-color combinations, but nothing has been forthcoming. They need to break along the RTR and GTC lines, which is the primary difficulty I've been encountering. I can get to nine different combinations, but then always end up having to repeat one.
It's this difficulty that makes me suspect that we'll see a strange combination of the guild pack setups. We know that there were only eight different guild boosters for each guild in the RTR and GTC prereleases, and there are four possible ally guilds for each guild. If the guild boosters are divided into sets of two, each possible ally guild could be associated with two possible guild boosters. For example, Izzet boosters 1 and 2 could be associated with the Boros, while boosters 3 and 4 would be associated with the Simic, and so on. This would necessitate new guild boosters, as Izzet boosters 1 and 2 would have to be composed with the two possible Boros supporting boosters in mind.
You'd end up with 16 possible variations on a guild pack, with each guild booster having two possible ally boosters associated with it. It would mean that certain guild rares would only be found with specific ally guilds, but that could actually be addressed by having the ally boosters allocate the rares differently than the primary guild boosters. For example, while the Izzet guild booster containing Cyclonic Rift might always have Boros as its ally guild, the Izzet ally boosters found in Boros guild packs might not have it as an option.
Sorry for the length of this post. My key point is about the selection of six boosters. Given the printing cost saved by reusing previous boosters, I really can't see them doing anything else, especially as this fits in exactly with what they describe in the press release.
I'm really not sure on the reuse of guild boosters, both for the purpose of synergy with ally guild packs and because they'd need to remove the promo cards from them. But we shall see!
So, as someone who has been trading for Shocklands consistently, with the idea that they will increase in value to @$20 in a couple of years from the current prices posted, Dragon Maze absolutely crushed that speculation.
Oh well, time to rebuild.
On a related note, I am excited that Wizards is choosing to release so many of the shocklands in this block to pump up Modern. Modern is here to stay, and I look forward to them reprinting all of the staples in different formats. Flood the market, drop the price of entry, and people will play Modern.
I do worry, however, that this is just going to kill the price of people's Modern collections. Wizards has promised not to neuter the value of players' Modern collections with the release of Modern Masters, but this announcement about the Shocklands is somewhat terrifying for current Modern players who already have built decks at a significant cost for the PTQ season this year.
So, yay for cheaper Modern cards I don't own; boo for cheaper Modern cards I do own.
And Dragon Maze seems like it is going to be amazing.
I don't see the shock lands dropping in value as a problem. I paid 5/6 dollars for the ones I wanted back when RAV block cycled out. I've seen foils go for about 20/25 dollars depending for the longest time. Non-foil versions were like 8-15 dollars for the longest time as well. Shock lands shouldn't be a major investment and I believe the new art on the lands was an added favor to those who dropped some cash on the originals.
On another note, Modern isn't the only format to drive up fetch prices. I speculate that Onslaught fetches will make an appearance again down the line, simply because enemy fetches exist in Modern. It seems logical they would make a return. Even the Zendikar fetches are fair game again down the line.
I don't see the shock lands dropping in value as a problem. I paid 5/6 dollars for the ones I wanted back when RAV block cycled out. I've seen foils go for about 20/25 dollars depending for the longest time. Non-foil versions were like 8-15 dollars for the longest time as well. Shock lands shouldn't be a major investment and I believe the new art on the lands was an added favor to those who dropped some cash on the originals.
On another note, Modern isn't the only format to drive up fetch prices. I speculate that Onslaught fetches will make an appearance again down the line, simply because enemy fetches exist in Modern. It seems logical they would make a return. Even the Zendikar fetches are fair game again down the line.
agreed 100% :thumbsup:. granting a better access to shocklands is a positive thing that will do good with all players. I have to admit Wizards has done a terrific job putting together RtR Block's Prereleases. Well Done
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Your guild pack will contain 2x [RTR] boosters (one standard, one guild booster), 2x [GTC] boosters (one standard, one guild booster) and 2x [DGM] boosters (both standard boosters).
Advantages:
* Re-uses the previously manufactured guild boosters, saving costs for WotC;
* Guarantees four guildgates for mana-fixing, at least one of which is in your chosen guild (assuming you don't get any shocks in your DGM packs);
* Follows the 2x [1ST], 2x [2ND], 2x [3RD] booster package format as seen in previous final small set prereleases.
If the above is true, then this leaves three possibilities for the off-guild guild booster. Either:
(1) Your off-guild booster randomly shares a colour, i.e. you choose Azorius, you might get Dimir (25%), Simic (25%), Orzhov (25%) or Boros (25%), but not Gruul (0%).
(2) Your off-guild booster is random, i.e. Azorius is chosen, each of the GTC guilds appear with a 20% chance
(3) Your off-guild booster is predetermined, i.e. you chose Azorius, that's got a control-style mechanic, so WotC has fixed every Azorius guildpack with a Orzhov guild booster, which is the most control style mechanic from GTC.
I'm inclined to think WotC will go with option (3). Option (1) might also be possible, but I doubt they would go option (2) because the Azorius player who gets a Gruul guild booster is going to be disappointed.
If they go option (3), then I predict the following pairings:
* Azorius/Orzhov, for the control-style player and mechanics;
* Golgari/Simic, for players who like to make their creatures bigger, and both use +1/+1 counters;
* Rakdos/Dimir, because both mechanics are against blocking relative to attacking;
* Selesnya/Boros, because both mechanics function only if creatures are already on the board;
* Izzet/Gruul, a less obvious pairing, but I see this as the 'combat tricks' pairing.
The above assumes that regardless of whether you pick Azorius or Orzhov, you get the same package except for the dice and the other non-essential bonuses.
Alternatively, WotC may make the pairings non-symmetric, giving ten predetermined guild packs. For example:
* You picked Dimir, you get Azorius off-guild (100%) because Detain will help your Ciphers to go through
* You picked Azorius, you get Orzhov off-guild (100%) because both are control mechanics
* You picked Orzhov, you get Golgari off-guild
* You picked Golgari, you get Simic, because of the +1/+1 token synergy
* You picked Simic, you get Izzet
* You picked Izzet, you get Gruul
* You picked Gruul, you get Selesnya
* You picked Selesnya, you get Boros off-guild, because your extra tokens will help trigger battalion
* You picked Boros, you get Rakdos, because both favor attacking
* You picked Rakdos, you get Dimir, because both favor attacking
This latter option would make for a much more varied prerelease, but I'm having trouble finding a cycle of ten pairings that makes sense logically.
Sorry for the length of this post. My key point is about the selection of six boosters. Given the printing cost saved by reusing previous boosters, I really can't see them doing anything else, especially as this fits in exactly with what they describe in the press release.
Though, I would love playing a Boros/Selesnya deck!
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3. Regurgitate things you read on Starcitygames or Channelfireball.
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The prize as a foil basic land is so weird. It must be something special, like the 6th land type. I guess that's the 20th anniversary gimmick, the 6th land type.
As far as we know currently you can't. All we know is no basic lands in the "land slot" in packs. We know that the Gates/Shocks will be there. I imagine there will be a "Maze" card in this slot as well as the mythic land that was mentioned.
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But what color u chose 1 u alienate 4 you choose purple city and the world gets turn on its head.
Decks used- GGarruk vs LilianaB, WElsepth vs TezzeretU, WGKnights vs DragonsR
WGRAjani vs BolasRUB, WUVenser vs KothR, RUIzzet vs GolgariGB.
WBSorin vs TibaltBR, WRHeros vs Monsters RG
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Re-printing both Shocks and Gates in the basic land slot is a stroke of genius and something that makes a ton of sense once you're open to the idea.
The full art would be amazing on the Mythic Rare land...
Have all of them.
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Three sets for each shockland?!? Consider me... well... shocked.
If my guess is correct I'd assume players would get their choice of which basic land type they want (as availability allows).
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This has been what I've been thinking. Though note that they can't use the same exact guild boosters, since they'll need to remove the guild promos. I also suspect that there will be some form of guild pack that includes DGM cards, since it would be silly to not support your guild decision with the new cards for that guild.
I suspect (1) but hope for (3). However, I disagree with your examples--why give a control-style mechanic to a guild that already has one? If we're looking for actual variety, it would make much more sense to choose a supporting guild that has different strengths and weaknesses, rather than more of the same.
A good example of what I would consider a solid combination would be an Izzet pack having Boros as the secondary guild. Izzet can have big, splashy effects from its spells, but didn't play well in limited. The aggressive nature of Boros cards would let the Izzet player stay in the game long enough to take advantage of what the guild has to offer.
The nature of the guild packs in the past two prereleases makes me think that nonsymmetrical pairings is going to be the name of the game, if they're predetermined. Again, I disagree with your specific examples, but that's probably a matter of personal taste.
I've been wracking my brain, trying to come up with ten two-guild combinations that gives us the ten three-color combinations, but nothing has been forthcoming. They need to break along the RTR and GTC lines, which is the primary difficulty I've been encountering. I can get to nine different combinations, but then always end up having to repeat one.
It's this difficulty that makes me suspect that we'll see a strange combination of the guild pack setups. We know that there were only eight different guild boosters for each guild in the RTR and GTC prereleases, and there are four possible ally guilds for each guild. If the guild boosters are divided into sets of two, each possible ally guild could be associated with two possible guild boosters. For example, Izzet boosters 1 and 2 could be associated with the Boros, while boosters 3 and 4 would be associated with the Simic, and so on. This would necessitate new guild boosters, as Izzet boosters 1 and 2 would have to be composed with the two possible Boros supporting boosters in mind.
You'd end up with 16 possible variations on a guild pack, with each guild booster having two possible ally boosters associated with it. It would mean that certain guild rares would only be found with specific ally guilds, but that could actually be addressed by having the ally boosters allocate the rares differently than the primary guild boosters. For example, while the Izzet guild booster containing Cyclonic Rift might always have Boros as its ally guild, the Izzet ally boosters found in Boros guild packs might not have it as an option.
I'm really not sure on the reuse of guild boosters, both for the purpose of synergy with ally guild packs and because they'd need to remove the promo cards from them. But we shall see!
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Oh well, time to rebuild.
On a related note, I am excited that Wizards is choosing to release so many of the shocklands in this block to pump up Modern. Modern is here to stay, and I look forward to them reprinting all of the staples in different formats. Flood the market, drop the price of entry, and people will play Modern.
I do worry, however, that this is just going to kill the price of people's Modern collections. Wizards has promised not to neuter the value of players' Modern collections with the release of Modern Masters, but this announcement about the Shocklands is somewhat terrifying for current Modern players who already have built decks at a significant cost for the PTQ season this year.
So, yay for cheaper Modern cards I don't own; boo for cheaper Modern cards I do own.
And Dragon Maze seems like it is going to be amazing.
On another note, Modern isn't the only format to drive up fetch prices. I speculate that Onslaught fetches will make an appearance again down the line, simply because enemy fetches exist in Modern. It seems logical they would make a return. Even the Zendikar fetches are fair game again down the line.
agreed 100% :thumbsup:. granting a better access to shocklands is a positive thing that will do good with all players. I have to admit Wizards has done a terrific job putting together RtR Block's Prereleases. Well Done