Anyone notice that all Gatecrash mechanics are related to creatures? Seemed a bit strange to me... Though I do love cipher.
Also - what happens when you copy a spell with cipher? Can you "encode" the copy as well?
MaRo mentioned this during the RTR preview season. Extort isn't a creature mechanic, it's a permanents and spells mechanic.
Intuitively you would not be able to encode the copy. I suspect the official rules entry will outline that "encoding" is an action that only instant/sorcery cards can preform.
& to Atheistgod - yea youre right about extort - I didnt think about that extort can be on non-creature permanents as well. Though it might be because I do not feel too impressed with extort at first glance (hopefully that feeling will pass once I actually start playing w the mechanic).
Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
This isn't necessarily asynergistic with snapcaster mage; check it: a cheap, instant speed spell with cipher gets played, choose not to encode the first time, snap it, as it resolves encode it onto snaps or w/e and you've got at least a 2 for 1 AND hit encode, ciphering as part of the spell's resolution and therefore circumventing the other half of flashback.
This isn't necessarily asynergistic with snapcaster mage; check it: a cheap, instant speed spell with cipher gets played, choose not to encode the first time, snap it, as it resolves encode it onto snaps or w/e and you've got at least a 2 for 1 AND hit encode, ciphering as part of the spell's resolution and therefore circumventing the other half of flashback.
Though I could be wrong.
Very valid point. This makes things very interesting.
Another thing to think about is manlands like inkmoth nexus. If it exiles to [currently creature] and persists, you could do stupid things with the right tools.
I think I'd look at the full art first before taking judgments any further. The fundamentals of art are a thing to look at, but I don't see any major breakages here, even allowing for style. I realise that this is one of the more radical departures from MtG's normal style, which I assume is everyone's foremost qualm with the art. It may just be me being overprotective of the art because I quite like the new art direction.
That's pretty much what I mean by 'opinion up to a certain extent'. After assessing the fundamentals, it's style and preference that decide whether the viewer enjoys the artwork or not. I'll admit I'm being a tad stubborn because I'm quite like the art, but I've hopefully looked at the composition. I can tell you've looked at it and thought about it clearly, and chosen your opinion on your observations and preferences, as anybody would. It's those who only base their opinions on preferences that annoys me. When entering a subject you know less about, it's perhaps a little foolish to judge straight away and being, perhaps, ignorant.
Regarding your observations, I do agree with them, but I think they're minor issues on what is otherwise a very well done piece. I think I'm perceiving the warp of the fisheye effect as stronger than others, which is why perspective seems fine to me. I'd ask to check leading lines again, allowing for a stronger distortion. I agree that the light source within the skull is a little off, but it does shine a visible light on the subject: search around the index finger of the left hand and the sheen upon his head.
I'm sure it's not a sign of the overall direction Magic art is taking, because of its fantasy roots, but I found this an interesting experiment to see how this style was received.
Yay, I'm glad we're getting towards a mutual understanding. I agree with your admittances and observations above almost 100%. For you and your personal taste it doesnt bother you, (I happen to be an illustrator who does spot art and editorial work for several clients and therein lies my bias against fisheye and poorly executed perspective affects, which I have seen handed in to several clients and immediately get rejected.)
I agree with the notion that this is Clint experimenting, as you can see in syncopate, and as a trend in some of his other recent pieces. I dont see this experimentation everywhere, or even with that many of the pther new magic artists. It seems to be allowances of the Art Director to let Cearley loose a bit to see what happens. Don't take this as a sign of how things as a whole will move, as this was not amongst the first images of art shown, which are usually what they consider to be the most appealing to the consumer.
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Anyone notice that all Gatecrash mechanics are related to creatures? Seemed a bit strange to me... Though I do love cipher.
It's just part of the way design keeps going towards, which is creature-centric. Remember Alara block? The only shard ability that wasn't creature related was Esper's thing with coloured artifacts.
It would have been surprising if RtR hadn't been as creature focused in terms of abilities, since that's the safest way of making a bunch of different abilities that don't make Timmy sad because it changes how he has to think about playing (Forecast), do something with spells they don't like right now (Transmute), make spells undesirable through effects (Radiance), accidentally turn the a game sideways (Dredge), or generally have the cards with them played based on their own merits rather than the ability's "worth" (Hellbent, Convoke).
If the art is indicating that the Dimir are subtly getting their ideas from the subliminal influence of malevolent spirits, then the explicit desire its leader has to take over the Izzet implies that Izzet's mad scientists are still too sane to be part of the Dimir's plans, but maybe the whispering madness will change their minds, literally and figuratively. Or maybe I am reading way too much into some generic art commissioned to be a generic representation of magical madness. In that case, I must apologize for assuming that things aren't meaningless, even though I should know better by now.
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@_@
Reprint Misdirection and Dominate . There, now you can you lose to your own cards instead of being mad at blue.
Orzhov isn't, Azorius's can effect all nonland permanents, and Overload is completely spell based.
and extort is the only one. also, the guy you quoted said gatecrash mechanics, not all 10 mechanics.
cipher attaches to a creature and needs combat damage,
bloodrush is pump spells,
battalion obviously needs creatures to trigger,
and evolve is for making creatures bigger.
and to top this off, I can see 3 of these (bloodrush, battalion, and evolve) being either all on creatures or MAYBE having one card thats not a creature.
Not so. Since Bloodrush and Battalion are ability words, they could go on noncreature permanents quite easily, and spells or abilities granting a keyword ability are most certainly not unexploreddesignspace.
maro said that bloodrush will give a bonus equal to the discarded creatures power and toughness .
battalion could go onto non-creature spells, but i doubt it.
maro said that bloodrush will give a bonus equal to the discarded creatures power and toughness .
battalion could go onto non-creature spells, but i doubt it.
It wouldn't be impossible to have a spell with Bloodrush on it. Maro only said "essentially" and specifically noted that he wasn't being rules tight. And then there was the post about him being wrong on at least two accounts. I can easily imagine a spell that does something or can be Bloodrushed for a small pump. It fits the flavor of forgetting something potentially useful in a raw display of power as well.
Battalion could easily also fit a similar role to Morbid or Fateful Hour on some spells as well. Like exalted, it could also potentially exist on some enchantments.
The only way this card and flashback work are as follows.
Cast Whispering Madness, choose not to use Cipher ability upon resolution. Then flashback with Snapcaster, and choose to use Cipher ability upon resolution of Whispering Madness. WM is then exiled due to its ability. Flashback ability checks upon resolving but there is no card to exile anymore, and thus fizzles.
I thought this was quite simple and easy to understand as soon as I read the new ability.
Like exalted, it could also potentially exist on some enchantments.
I think this notion is a touch mistaken, as the wording on Firemane Avenger says when she and 2 other creatures attack. Seeing as they tend to limit abilities and complexity in their first reveal. (See the complexity of Unleash on many cards) I doubt we'd see anything keyworded to have batliaon. But something similar to
WR
Attacking Creatures you control gain First Strike
Isn't too far out of the realm of possiblities.
Now Moving back to the concept of Cipher, other then the standard interaction of play spell encode creature, I will be intrigued to see how they take it to the next level. I mean they are very afraid of anything to warping, but I don't think a Time Warp with cipher is to unbelievable.
Everything should be cool now, there was a lil confusion because people were talking about when you have to discard for Whipsering Madness and if some of those cards had Cipher and being able to flash them back.
Plus as others have said just not Cipher the first time so you can get the use out of the card again for Snappy.
Why not just save your other spells for Snappy flashback instead because the point of Cipher is you getting the use out of the card anyway. Silly Snapcaster targets -_-
Everything should be cool now, there was a lil confusion because people were talking about when you have to discard for Whipsering Madness and if some of those cards had Cipher and being able to flash them back.
Plus as others have said just not Cipher the first time so you can the use out of the card again for Snappy.
Why not just save your other spells for Snappy flashback instead because the point of Cipher is you getting the use out of the card anyway. Silly Snapcaster targets -_-
Because you can cast them when you don't have a creature in play (or when you're planing on sweeping soon), then Snapcaster them back to encode onto a creature when you do have one
Because you can cast them when you don't have a creature in play (or when you're planing on sweeping soon), then Snapcaster them back to encode onto a creature when you do have one
How are you gonna quote me and not even read what I wrote. What part of this doesn't already mention what you quoted me on :
"Plus as others have said just not Cipher the first time so you can get the use out of the card again for Snappy. "
Well, this is not the Dimir prerelease card as all five of them have at least a power/toughness box on the GTC product page. Seems like the other four holiday previews are their respective PR cards though.
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Yeah it should work.
MaRo mentioned this during the RTR preview season. Extort isn't a creature mechanic, it's a permanents and spells mechanic.
Intuitively you would not be able to encode the copy. I suspect the official rules entry will outline that "encoding" is an action that only instant/sorcery cards can preform.
& to Atheistgod - yea youre right about extort - I didnt think about that extort can be on non-creature permanents as well. Though it might be because I do not feel too impressed with extort at first glance (hopefully that feeling will pass once I actually start playing w the mechanic).
Commander:
R Daretti, Scrap Savant
BR Olivia Voldaren
BRG Shattergang Brothers
GUR Riku of Two Reflections
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain
Ok there might be a lil confusion on this. Was you meaning have two copies of the same Cipher from two different casted cards of the same name?
if i were to cast 2 separate whispering madness cards onto the same single creature.
Orzhov isn't, Azorius's can effect all nonland permanents, and Overload is completely spell based.
When you copy a spell with Cipher, you can't exile it, because there is no card to exile when the copy resolves.
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
Yeah it would work.
Though I could be wrong.
This is a Shivan Ampersand
Very valid point. This makes things very interesting.
This is a Shivan Ampersand
Yay, I'm glad we're getting towards a mutual understanding. I agree with your admittances and observations above almost 100%. For you and your personal taste it doesnt bother you, (I happen to be an illustrator who does spot art and editorial work for several clients and therein lies my bias against fisheye and poorly executed perspective affects, which I have seen handed in to several clients and immediately get rejected.)
I agree with the notion that this is Clint experimenting, as you can see in syncopate, and as a trend in some of his other recent pieces. I dont see this experimentation everywhere, or even with that many of the pther new magic artists. It seems to be allowances of the Art Director to let Cearley loose a bit to see what happens. Don't take this as a sign of how things as a whole will move, as this was not amongst the first images of art shown, which are usually what they consider to be the most appealing to the consumer.
Avid teacher of Magic to new players.
Flavor enthusiast, Storyteller, and Illustrator
Red Blue aligned Mage
I play limited, casual modern, and keep several standard decks on hand.
In process of writing articles about MTG as a subculture delving into it from a sociological standpoint. If you know of a mtg site looking for a column like that, please private message me. Thanks
It's just part of the way design keeps going towards, which is creature-centric. Remember Alara block? The only shard ability that wasn't creature related was Esper's thing with coloured artifacts.
It would have been surprising if RtR hadn't been as creature focused in terms of abilities, since that's the safest way of making a bunch of different abilities that don't make Timmy sad because it changes how he has to think about playing (Forecast), do something with spells they don't like right now (Transmute), make spells undesirable through effects (Radiance), accidentally turn the a game sideways (Dredge), or generally have the cards with them played based on their own merits rather than the ability's "worth" (Hellbent, Convoke).
Reprint Misdirection and Dominate . There, now you can you lose to your own cards instead of being mad at blue.
and extort is the only one. also, the guy you quoted said gatecrash mechanics, not all 10 mechanics.
cipher attaches to a creature and needs combat damage,
bloodrush is pump spells,
battalion obviously needs creatures to trigger,
and evolve is for making creatures bigger.
and to top this off, I can see 3 of these (bloodrush, battalion, and evolve) being either all on creatures or MAYBE having one card thats not a creature.
maro said that bloodrush will give a bonus equal to the discarded creatures power and toughness .
battalion could go onto non-creature spells, but i doubt it.
It wouldn't be impossible to have a spell with Bloodrush on it. Maro only said "essentially" and specifically noted that he wasn't being rules tight. And then there was the post about him being wrong on at least two accounts. I can easily imagine a spell that does something or can be Bloodrushed for a small pump. It fits the flavor of forgetting something potentially useful in a raw display of power as well.
Battalion could easily also fit a similar role to Morbid or Fateful Hour on some spells as well. Like exalted, it could also potentially exist on some enchantments.
The only way this card and flashback work are as follows.
Cast Whispering Madness, choose not to use Cipher ability upon resolution. Then flashback with Snapcaster, and choose to use Cipher ability upon resolution of Whispering Madness. WM is then exiled due to its ability. Flashback ability checks upon resolving but there is no card to exile anymore, and thus fizzles.
I thought this was quite simple and easy to understand as soon as I read the new ability.
I think this notion is a touch mistaken, as the wording on Firemane Avenger says when she and 2 other creatures attack. Seeing as they tend to limit abilities and complexity in their first reveal. (See the complexity of Unleash on many cards) I doubt we'd see anything keyworded to have batliaon. But something similar to
WR
Attacking Creatures you control gain First Strike
Isn't too far out of the realm of possiblities.
Now Moving back to the concept of Cipher, other then the standard interaction of play spell encode creature, I will be intrigued to see how they take it to the next level. I mean they are very afraid of anything to warping, but I don't think a Time Warp with cipher is to unbelievable.
Everything should be cool now, there was a lil confusion because people were talking about when you have to discard for Whipsering Madness and if some of those cards had Cipher and being able to flash them back.
Plus as others have said just not Cipher the first time so you can get the use out of the card again for Snappy.
Why not just save your other spells for Snappy flashback instead because the point of Cipher is you getting the use out of the card anyway. Silly Snapcaster targets -_-
Because you can cast them when you don't have a creature in play (or when you're planing on sweeping soon), then Snapcaster them back to encode onto a creature when you do have one
How are you gonna quote me and not even read what I wrote. What part of this doesn't already mention what you quoted me on :
"Plus as others have said just not Cipher the first time so you can get the use out of the card again for Snappy. "