Well the nice thing is with most of the removal being at least pillar of flame or higher. This card does not have to exist in a standard where gut shot can remove it for 0 mana and 2 life.
The only color that can easily remove this without spending at least 2+ mana is red barring bounce or something.
Tragic Slip makes it DOA even without morbid. So yeah, black can take it out relitively easy as well.
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There is buried treasure everywhere...in a graveyard.
I like how Geist of Saint Traft curves pefectly into this. turn 2 or three geist followed by flux the next turn, attack with geist angel comes in, get a card
Well the nice thing is with most of the removal being at least pillar of flame or higher. This card does not have to exist in a standard where gut shot can remove it for 0 mana and 2 life.
The only color that can easily remove this without spending at least 2+ mana is red barring bounce or something.
The thing is I'm okay with spending 2 Mana to kill your 4 drop. A 4 mana 1/1 is in no way constructed playable. People saying that people said the same thing about delver and look at delver need to evaluate the cards. Noone ever thought that a 3/2 flyer for 1 mana was bad they thought that it wouldn't be possible to build a deck where he would reliably be a 3/2 by turn 3. People who said JTMS was unplayable when he was spoilered were no entirely wrong. JTMS wasn't heavily played until cawblade.and Scars block.
Tragic Slip makes it DOA even without morbid. So yeah, black can take it out relitively easy as well.
I haven't seen a Tragic Slip cast since before rotation so yeah... I think the amount of relevant X/1s has reduced the viability of that card. I guess if X/1s take off though then sure Tragic Slip could be coming back.
Even some decks that easily activate morbid seem to rather play Brimstone Volley.
Design
Love it! Not only is it one of the most Simic card I've seen, but I love the fact that the Simic will do more stuff with the +1/+1 counters than Rakdos and Golgari did in RTR (next to nothing...) The fact that the only other known Simic card has great synergy with the Fathom Mage is amazing!
Limited
Well, it's no Mercurial Chemister... At turn 4, the games start heating up, and it just isn't the time to play a 1/1. The card is odd in that you want to play it after having stabilized the board, but you also need it in play as soon as possible, while you still got juice in hand. It depends how much more synergy with +1/+1 counters the Simic has, but as of now, I can see myself picking a powerful uncommon over it pretty easily.
Standard
I don't think it's good. Like, not at all. Playing a 1/1 on turn 3 or 4 is awful. If your only way to draw cards is by playing big creatures, you might as well play Garruk's Packleader. If you are hoping to get a bunch of +1/+1 counters on it through Increasing Savagery, that's just too slow, and you want your two-cards combos to be very close to winning you the game, especially if it's a fragile one that requires a creature (a 1/1, nonetheless.)
Well the nice thing is with most of the removal being at least pillar of flame or higher. This card does not have to exist in a standard where gut shot can remove it for 0 mana and 2 life.
The only color that can easily remove this without spending at least 2+ mana is red barring bounce or something.
Quick to forget tragic slip are we? How about crippling blight?
I think the secret to breaking this mechanic will be instant speed token swarms producing a lot of evolve triggers at once.
However the creature is very fragile and that will be its downfall. If you can't play it and grow it on the same turn it's basically a wasted turn.
Or AoGR, AoGR is good too.
The problem with the token swarm is that each token needs to be bigger than the last. If you get two 2/2 Wolves, the mage triggers twice, after resolution of the first trigger, the mage is a 2/2 and because of the intervening if, it checks the trigger again, and see the other 2/2 Wolf is the same size and fails.
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She wants a ride on the pony, dude.
Mafia Stats
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Issue with my shooting? Please visit my helpdesk and help me learn to aim!
I am not saying this card is at all playable in the current standard, but the meta shifts going on right now are strange enough to allow cards that die to everything stay on the field. I remember the Craterhoof Behemoth reanimator/ramp deck coming into standard from nowhere because people were simply playing mana dorks into thragtusks to beat the zombie decks instead of packing removal main board. Somberwald Sage was one of the strange cards in the deck that would, in a usual competitive constructed environment, die to everything before it got a chance to do anything, but since the meta shift at the time called for thragtusks and card-advantage-angels instead of actual removal, the Sage got to do some real work.
Standard's meta was shifting really well after RTR came out and now that it's starting to harden again, the influx of new cards might just give this card the right standard meta to be competitive. As some people mentioned, it becomes card advantage for Geist based decks and maybe she'd work in angel reanimator, who knows?
...jk tho I REALLY want some genius to use cards like this in competitive magic.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
I haven't seen a Tragic Slip cast since before rotation so yeah... I think the amount of relevant X/1s has reduced the viability of that card. I guess if X/1s take off though then sure Tragic Slip could be coming back.
Even some decks that easily activate morbid seem to rather play Brimstone Volley.
I run B/G zombies and always pack in a few copies. In the last month alone I've hosed both a Rakdos and Seles deck thanks to playing that card intelligently. It's instant speed and face checks everything from turn one delver to turn four Rakdos.
Personally when it rotates I'll be sad! Id rather use it then most current death spells.
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There is buried treasure everywhere...in a graveyard.
I don't know what exactly the use will be for Fathom Mage. I guess someone will find use for it. I'm hoping this new set has some cards I can stick in my cube. I don't think I could use this card because most stuff that gives creatures +1/+1 counters would work best if your playing G/W not U/G.
if and only if a creature dies that turn and you have this card in play.
I still think this card is incredibly bad unless there are cheap 0/4 or greater that you can reliably cast at 1 or 2 mana that don't have defender. (possible because of Simic.)
Way too conditional of a card, doesn't effect the board when it drops, and you need to be playing a lot of creatures to make the card draw matter. This isn't competitive.
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I just want people who redraft to admit this:
"I can't draft objectively unless I am able to guarantee that I receive at least 3 rares. I am also better than most average/new players so I want to make sure that I get the best rares and they end up with worse ones. I care more about the monetary value of cards than actually playing the game for decent prizes."
Design
Love it! Not only is it one of the most Simic card I've seen, but I love the fact that the Simic will do more stuff with the +1/+1 counters than Rakdos and Golgari did in RTR (next to nothing...) The fact that the only other known Simic card has great synergy with the Fathom Mage is amazing!
Limited
Well, it's no Mercurial Chemister... At turn 4, the games start heating up, and it just isn't the time to play a 1/1. The card is odd in that you want to play it after having stabilized the board, but you also need it in play as soon as possible, while you still got juice in hand. It depends how much more synergy with +1/+1 counters the Simic has, but as of now, I can see myself picking a powerful uncommon over it pretty easily.
Standard
I don't think it's good. Like, not at all. Playing a 1/1 on turn 3 or 4 is awful. If your only way to draw cards is by playing big creatures, you might as well play Garruk's Packleader. If you are hoping to get a bunch of +1/+1 counters on it through Increasing Savagery, that's just too slow, and you want your two-cards combos to be very close to winning you the game, especially if it's a fragile one that requires a creature (a 1/1, nonetheless.)
For starters I agree completely with what you say about this card's design flavor. However, for what you have said about how it will do in Limited and Standard, I would like to make a counter argument.
In the case of limited, I do note their are better choices for card draw. This card is for the Simic decks that have Graft already in them. So the idea would be that when you play this lovely lady of the water, you would have three or more graft creatures waiting for her with open arms. The end result at the very least being that you would get a 4/4 for four cmc that would give you three new cards for a job well done, hence the rarity.
As for standard, I think that if some one wanted to they could find a way to make a deck that would make this lady shine, this is blue so counter and removal is a must. Add to the fact that we have only seen two Simic cards, which do have good synergy with one another. I concluded that we cannot make a true vote on how good she really is until we see the entire set. However if she turns out to be worthless, I will just have to eat my own words.
In the case of limited, I do note their are better choices for card draw. This card is for the Simic decks that have Graft already in them. So the idea would be that when you play this lovely lady of the water, you would have three or more graft creatures waiting for her with open arms. The end result at the very least being that you would get a 4/4 for four cmc that would give you three new cards for a job well done, hence the rarity.
This won't happen in limited because Graft is the mechanic from the last Ravnica and there will not be graft cards in this block. This is should still be an average playable card in draft and an above average card in sealed.
How does this card interact with The Mimeoplasm? If he copies her and exiles a Artisan of Kozilek, do I get to draw 10 cards? More precisely, does coming into play with counters count as having them "placed on" her?
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I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause!
Famliy Guy Emperor Says,
"Something, something something, DARK SIDE!
Something, something, something COMPLETE!" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHiUitciuJ8
:symrw::symrw::symrw::symrw::symrw::symrw: SPIKE GAYMER: not just a beatdown, a beatdown sung to the tune of "I Feel Pretty"!
How does this card interact with The Mimeoplasm? If he copies her and exiles a Artisan of Kozilek, do I get to draw 10 cards? More precisely, does coming into play with counters count as having them "placed on" her?
If the store owner says that I can't trade in the premises, I'll just go outside. If he says that I can't trade within 10m of his premises, I'll go to 11 meters. If he says that he doesn't want to see me trading, I will put a basket over his head and continue trading.
Yes, he's a local legend. He's only known to take his clothes off before he goes into the Ladies' Lockerroom. Nobody knows what he does in there because he's invisible, but it's almost certainly tons of masturbating.
121.6. If a spell or ability refers to a counter being "placed" on a permanent, it means putting a counter on that permanent while it's on the battlefield, or that permanent entering the battlefield with a counter on it as the result of an effect
Rules smackdown. Also, based on rubble hulk (generally), I think they are showing us guild promos. Makes sense to get scheming ahead of time based on the promo.
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My favorite flavor text: Time of Heroes
Feel free to tell me yours!
So, if a single spell/ability places multiple counters on her, would you draw a card for each individual counter? I'm inclined to say yes, but I can't recall any other abilities that trigger on placing +1/+1 counters to use as a precedent.
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EDH Decks
:boros:Gisela, Blade of Goldnight:boros:
:orzhov:Doran, the Siege Tower:golgari:
:azorius:Rasputin Dreamweaver:azorius:
:izzet:Melek, Izzet Paragon:izzet:
:simic:Edric, Spymaster of Trest:simic:
:gruul:Maelstrom Wanderer:simic:
So she works with Mimeoplasm. That is almost good enough for me, but I'm still going to see about fitting her in a standard deck. I'm done trying to convince anyone though. I will want 4 of her regardless of what other people think, so those 4 being easy to pick up will make me happy.
I think this card is a bit pricey and the best case scenario is a turn 3 drop and in standard you'll want to have something better on the battlefield. I can, however, see this being good in EDH. I might give it a try in my Riku deck, the card draw is nice and is something that will come in handy. There are only so many turns where you'll get a +1/+1 counter and then it'll stop and it really depends on your deck. It also depends on your opponent, how long will they let this stick around? Probably not long, I definitely see more use in EDH.
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Tragic Slip makes it DOA even without morbid. So yeah, black can take it out relitively easy as well.
There is buried treasure everywhere...in a graveyard.
The thing is I'm okay with spending 2 Mana to kill your 4 drop. A 4 mana 1/1 is in no way constructed playable. People saying that people said the same thing about delver and look at delver need to evaluate the cards. Noone ever thought that a 3/2 flyer for 1 mana was bad they thought that it wouldn't be possible to build a deck where he would reliably be a 3/2 by turn 3. People who said JTMS was unplayable when he was spoilered were no entirely wrong. JTMS wasn't heavily played until cawblade.and Scars block.
I haven't seen a Tragic Slip cast since before rotation so yeah... I think the amount of relevant X/1s has reduced the viability of that card. I guess if X/1s take off though then sure Tragic Slip could be coming back.
Even some decks that easily activate morbid seem to rather play Brimstone Volley.
Feel free to bid on my cards here!
Design
Love it! Not only is it one of the most Simic card I've seen, but I love the fact that the Simic will do more stuff with the +1/+1 counters than Rakdos and Golgari did in RTR (next to nothing...) The fact that the only other known Simic card has great synergy with the Fathom Mage is amazing!
Limited
Well, it's no Mercurial Chemister... At turn 4, the games start heating up, and it just isn't the time to play a 1/1. The card is odd in that you want to play it after having stabilized the board, but you also need it in play as soon as possible, while you still got juice in hand. It depends how much more synergy with +1/+1 counters the Simic has, but as of now, I can see myself picking a powerful uncommon over it pretty easily.
Standard
I don't think it's good. Like, not at all. Playing a 1/1 on turn 3 or 4 is awful. If your only way to draw cards is by playing big creatures, you might as well play Garruk's Packleader. If you are hoping to get a bunch of +1/+1 counters on it through Increasing Savagery, that's just too slow, and you want your two-cards combos to be very close to winning you the game, especially if it's a fragile one that requires a creature (a 1/1, nonetheless.)
Quick to forget tragic slip are we? How about crippling blight?
The problem with the token swarm is that each token needs to be bigger than the last. If you get two 2/2 Wolves, the mage triggers twice, after resolution of the first trigger, the mage is a 2/2 and because of the intervening if, it checks the trigger again, and see the other 2/2 Wolf is the same size and fails.
Mafia Stats
Kill shot: BB
Issue with my shooting? Please visit my helpdesk and help me learn to aim!
Standard's meta was shifting really well after RTR came out and now that it's starting to harden again, the influx of new cards might just give this card the right standard meta to be competitive. As some people mentioned, it becomes card advantage for Geist based decks and maybe she'd work in angel reanimator, who knows?
...jk tho I REALLY want some genius to use cards like this in competitive magic.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
I run B/G zombies and always pack in a few copies. In the last month alone I've hosed both a Rakdos and Seles deck thanks to playing that card intelligently. It's instant speed and face checks everything from turn one delver to turn four Rakdos.
Personally when it rotates I'll be sad! Id rather use it then most current death spells.
There is buried treasure everywhere...in a graveyard.
if and only if a creature dies that turn and you have this card in play.
I still think this card is incredibly bad unless there are cheap 0/4 or greater that you can reliably cast at 1 or 2 mana that don't have defender. (possible because of Simic.)
Way too conditional of a card, doesn't effect the board when it drops, and you need to be playing a lot of creatures to make the card draw matter. This isn't competitive.
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For starters I agree completely with what you say about this card's design flavor. However, for what you have said about how it will do in Limited and Standard, I would like to make a counter argument.
In the case of limited, I do note their are better choices for card draw. This card is for the Simic decks that have Graft already in them. So the idea would be that when you play this lovely lady of the water, you would have three or more graft creatures waiting for her with open arms. The end result at the very least being that you would get a 4/4 for four cmc that would give you three new cards for a job well done, hence the rarity.
As for standard, I think that if some one wanted to they could find a way to make a deck that would make this lady shine, this is blue so counter and removal is a must. Add to the fact that we have only seen two Simic cards, which do have good synergy with one another. I concluded that we cannot make a true vote on how good she really is until we see the entire set. However if she turns out to be worthless, I will just have to eat my own words.
This won't happen in limited because Graft is the mechanic from the last Ravnica and there will not be graft cards in this block. This is should still be an average playable card in draft and an above average card in sealed.
Famliy Guy Emperor Says,
"Something, something something, DARK SIDE!
Something, something, something COMPLETE!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHiUitciuJ8
:symrw::symrw::symrw::symrw::symrw::symrw:
SPIKE GAYMER: not just a beatdown, a beatdown sung to the tune of "I Feel Pretty"!
Simply put: no. Not the same thing.
However, I do think it's one mana too much of being even remotely playable.
Oran-Rief, the Vastwood and Llanowar Reborn are obvious choices.
Quest for the Gemblades is interesting.
Are you sure?
........................
Rules smackdown. Also, based on rubble hulk (generally), I think they are showing us guild promos. Makes sense to get scheming ahead of time based on the promo.
Feel free to tell me yours!
:boros:Gisela, Blade of Goldnight:boros:
:orzhov:Doran, the Siege Tower:golgari:
:azorius:Rasputin Dreamweaver:azorius:
:izzet:Melek, Izzet Paragon:izzet:
:simic:Edric, Spymaster of Trest:simic:
:gruul:Maelstrom Wanderer:simic:
So she works with Mimeoplasm. That is almost good enough for me, but I'm still going to see about fitting her in a standard deck. I'm done trying to convince anyone though. I will want 4 of her regardless of what other people think, so those 4 being easy to pick up will make me happy.