Edit: BTW, the move towards a "creature turning sideways format" is probably the biggest reason why I gave up standard and now only play EDH / some modern... You can play with real cards in old formats. It's just super sad that when a good control creature (snappy) squeeks by the FFL and makes them decided to print specific hosers in like 5 sets in a row, while they are completely ok with 3 for a 4/4 uncounterable that is immune to discard... (which ironically is a key feature of one of the only other good control cards printed recently - liliana). Oh well, there're already goodies for pauper EDH and we're barely into the commons!
Oh... what have Billy and Brian done last week to deserve those previews?
I mean, the elephant is nice, but it's not "OMG!!!", and then... Syncopate?? Really?? A plain decent reprint?
They must have been really nasty boys...
Wizards probably had BDM spoil this piece of crap because of how many people are getting angry at the anti-blue theme of the set. It was easy to slip into his article about the GP schedule. In any case, it's not going to work. If there is not a Remand level counter in this set I will probably quite for awhile. I will definitely quite standard but might keep playing legacy.
Once again: This is about counters in general, not just control decks. The cards are examples of Wizard's anti counter mentality, which is why they are making me so angry. Also, this Loxodon Card and Abrupt Decat are going to be very good against control decks. Very good indeed. O-Ring was basically the only good answer to messenger that we had left.
There is still Terminus and probably other exile/tuck-based removal spells waiting to be spoiled. Loxodon Smiter is pretty much negligible. Which control deck nowadays don't play removal? Vanilla 3 mana 4/4 isn't really going to cut it.
Wraths have never been that good against tempo decks because they don't need to deploy one thread. If supreme verdict was in standard now players would just protect their geists with vapor snag rather than mana leak. I mean, it's good, but it is meh. It's not a super powerful 4/4 for three or a 2 mana removal spell that can hit almost any type of non-land permanent.
Think of it as a wrath that is great against aggro (since it is a wrath) and not actually terrible against Tempo.
It's still not colorless, and has no color. That's a paradox. So either you're a Zen master or an idiot, I'll assume the Zen master for sake of argument. This card will have no paradoxes because it has a clear paradox. Deep stuff man.
There are 2 types of players here who said : "blue players are whinning for counters, while control is not always counter matter"
1. They hate blue because in the past time their precious spells got countered.
2. They said this for the sake of a balance mtg.
I bet 99% here are number 1 type.
For those who say that control not just about counters : "please show / make me a T2 control deck list, that are competitive, and don't need any counterspell". If you can, then I'll accept your statement.
You played JESUS?!?! I heard none of his guys stay in the graveyard, and once you think you have him beat he ALWAYS comes back to win within three turns. I like...WORSHIP him.
There are 2 types of players here who said : "blue players are whinning for counters, while control is not always counter matter"
1. They hate blue because in the past time their precious spells got countered.
2. They said this for the sake of a balance mtg.
I bet 99% here are number 1 type.
For those who say that control not just about counters : "please show / make me a T2 control deck list, that are competitive, and don't need any counterspell". If you can, then I'll accept your statement.
There is a RGTrading Post deck in Worlds. Not sure you count it as competitive, but it is a control deck at heart that isn't blue.
It's still not colorless, and has no color. That's a paradox. So either you're a Zen master or an idiot, I'll assume the Zen master for sake of argument. This card will have no paradoxes because it has a clear paradox. Deep stuff man.
There is still Terminus and probably other exile/tuck-based removal spells waiting to be spoiled. Loxodon Smiter is pretty much negligible. Which control deck nowadays don't play removal? Vanilla 3 mana 4/4 isn't really going to cut it.
Terminus is too slow without library manipulation, and Wizards nerfed that because of Snapcaster Mage. I don't know if we will see any good exile or tuck removal, but a Path to Exile reprint is badly needed at this point. Wizards pushed creatures too far. 5/5 Haste Dragons are just the tip of the iceberg.
Think of it as a wrath that is great against aggro (since it is a wrath) and not actually terrible against Tempo.
It's horrible against the best aggro deck in the format (Zombies)
You played JESUS?!?! I heard none of his guys stay in the graveyard, and once you think you have him beat he ALWAYS comes back to win within three turns. I like...WORSHIP him.
Jesus people, they are printing Signets again. Terminus will not be too slow.
And even if it is, U/W is not the only thing that can be called control. Control is an archetype, not a color combination. This is exactly what I meant when earlier I said that people here think that "Counter target spell" is the only form of control.
Didn't Zac hill say that signets were too powerful? I don't think they are being reprinted.
It's still not colorless, and has no color. That's a paradox. So either you're a Zen master or an idiot, I'll assume the Zen master for sake of argument. This card will have no paradoxes because it has a clear paradox. Deep stuff man.
I just read most of this thread and am amazed how spoiled we have become about this game. A few years ago if we got a 4/4 for 3 mana we would have been celebrating, today people actually write its not good. An uncounterable 4/4 for 3 mana is not that good..think about that.
Then blue players get a counterspell that hoses Snappy mirror matches and in my opinion is better then leak most of the game. Yet blue mages are still on the ...blue is getting hosed...kick.
Just sitting here shaking my head at the spoiled players in the game now.
Interesting stuff for a Friday... here's hoping for a spoiler dump like we always seem to have on these days... I don't know why people are complaining about a 4/4 for 3 mana. Does it really need abilities?
I just read most of this thread and am amazed how spoiled we have become about this game. A few years ago if we got a 4/4 for 3 mana we would have been celebrating, today people actually write its not good. An uncounterable 4/4 for 3 mana is not that good..think about that.
Then blue players get a counterspell that hoses Snappy mirror matches and in my opinion is better then leak most of the game. Yet blue mages are still on the ...blue is getting hosed...kick.
Just sitting here shaking my head at the spoiled players in the game now.
We got a 5/5 for three and a 5/4 for three in the last few years, neither of which saw Standard play.
I take issue with so much of the crap in this thread that I don't even know where to begin. Honestly, reading some of this drivel I'm embarrassed to be a Magic player.
Blue Hater: "Now blue knows what it's like to be crapped on"
Blue Lover: Blue is dead. This sucks.
Grow up! All of you.
And as for counterspells not being fun to play against.
"You bounced my 10/10 with trample that I just cheated into play. Not fun"
"You played Nevermore and named my key card. Not fun"
"You O-Ringed my Gideon Jura and alpha struck me. Not fun"
Do I need to go on?
When you lose, or are on the short end of the stick in Magic...NOTHING IS FUN.
Losing is never fun. And there are always going to be cards in this game that have NOTHING to do with counters that are going to make you just as pissed off as if you had someone tap 2 Islands and go "Countered."
Anybody who says otherwise is lying to the community and lying to themselves.
The stereotypical entitled Magic player wants to play their spells, whatever they are, and have them stick...PERMANENTLY. They hate removal of any kind. But boy, they sure love it in THEIR deck.
I'm a blue mage at heart. Blue is fine. Blue will survive. And if it's not tier 1 for 6 months, boo hoo kitty. So what?
1/50 of this set is uncounterable and blue mages are having a cow.
Really?
How about enjoying the great cards that we DO have in this set. I am salivating over some of this stuff. This may be the best set to have come out in years.
Don't like blue? Play another color for crying out loud. I will if I have to.
Why? Because I love the game more than I love saying "Countered." I think Golgari is going to be the nuts come October. I can't wait.
Today is a sad day to admit to being a Magic player if I go by some of the crap I've read here.
Syncopate is weak and isn't even close to a hard counter. Someone please tell me that is not the real art for it. If it is, I am voting worst card art ever
It's among the worst. Luckily it is a reprint and the old art, while bad, outclasses this by a mile.
We got a 5/5 for three and a 5/4 for three in the last few years, neither of which saw Standard play.
What creatures were those? I'm guessing the 5/4 was Wooly Thocter?
EDIT Ahhh that artifact lich guy and thoctar? Thanks.
Also if I may, I'm guessing that there will be a decent counterspell still coming. Only 2 blue cards revealed thus far. I'm guessing that next week will focus on Seleysna and Azorius more since this week we got a ton of Rakdos and Golgari, either that or more mono colored cards.
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I have had deliver players bring in counter magic against my red deck...why? When you net deck you don't know how to sideboard.
Want to see me in action? Check out my stream! Currently broadcasting Boros Burn in Standard. Full archive available.
Want to play better magic? Come join us at diestoremoval.com
I see what you did there...
Edit: BTW, the move towards a "creature turning sideways format" is probably the biggest reason why I gave up standard and now only play EDH / some modern... You can play with real cards in old formats. It's just super sad that when a good control creature (snappy) squeeks by the FFL and makes them decided to print specific hosers in like 5 sets in a row, while they are completely ok with 3 for a 4/4 uncounterable that is immune to discard... (which ironically is a key feature of one of the only other good control cards printed recently - liliana). Oh well, there're already goodies for pauper EDH and we're barely into the commons!
Edric | Skithiryx | Merieke | Talrand
--------------------------
Well except for pauper EDH
Garruk's Packleader | Inkfathom Witch | Gelectrode | Sigil Captain | Glider Barin | Sludge Strider | Paragon of the Ameshsa
Wizards probably had BDM spoil this piece of crap because of how many people are getting angry at the anti-blue theme of the set. It was easy to slip into his article about the GP schedule. In any case, it's not going to work. If there is not a Remand level counter in this set I will probably quite for awhile. I will definitely quite standard but might keep playing legacy.
There is still Terminus and probably other exile/tuck-based removal spells waiting to be spoiled. Loxodon Smiter is pretty much negligible. Which control deck nowadays don't play removal? Vanilla 3 mana 4/4 isn't really going to cut it.
Think of it as a wrath that is great against aggro (since it is a wrath) and not actually terrible against Tempo.
The only colour with a 99/99
Signature by Spongy Pengwin
UBR: Sedris
1. They hate blue because in the past time their precious spells got countered.
2. They said this for the sake of a balance mtg.
I bet 99% here are number 1 type.
For those who say that control not just about counters : "please show / make me a T2 control deck list, that are competitive, and don't need any counterspell". If you can, then I'll accept your statement.
My 180 Modern Bordered Only Cube
There is a RG Trading Post deck in Worlds. Not sure you count it as competitive, but it is a control deck at heart that isn't blue.
The only colour with a 99/99
Signature by Spongy Pengwin
UBR: Sedris
Terminus is too slow without library manipulation, and Wizards nerfed that because of Snapcaster Mage. I don't know if we will see any good exile or tuck removal, but a Path to Exile reprint is badly needed at this point. Wizards pushed creatures too far. 5/5 Haste Dragons are just the tip of the iceberg.
It's horrible against the best aggro deck in the format (Zombies)
Opposite of what? Those card you mention is all combat centered.
Dunno, I can't see it, because I'm using my phone. Can you paste the list here? But back there I mean of course an Ux control deck.
IMHO, it's better and simpler to ban SCM and print good counters, rather than not printing good counters.
My 180 Modern Bordered Only Cube
Didn't Zac hill say that signets were too powerful? I don't think they are being reprinted.
I'll believe it when I see it
It is hard to get into combat efficiently against those cards.
Here is the link: http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/wmc12/video5
The only colour with a 99/99
Signature by Spongy Pengwin
UBR: Sedris
Then blue players get a counterspell that hoses Snappy mirror matches and in my opinion is better then leak most of the game. Yet blue mages are still on the ...blue is getting hosed...kick.
Just sitting here shaking my head at the spoiled players in the game now.
We got a 5/5 for three and a 5/4 for three in the last few years, neither of which saw Standard play.
Blue Hater: "Now blue knows what it's like to be crapped on"
Blue Lover: Blue is dead. This sucks.
Grow up! All of you.
And as for counterspells not being fun to play against.
"You bounced my 10/10 with trample that I just cheated into play. Not fun"
"You Doom Bladed my fatty. Not fun"
"You wiped my whole board. Not fun"
"You played Nevermore and named my key card. Not fun"
"You O-Ringed my Gideon Jura and alpha struck me. Not fun"
Do I need to go on?
When you lose, or are on the short end of the stick in Magic...NOTHING IS FUN.
Losing is never fun. And there are always going to be cards in this game that have NOTHING to do with counters that are going to make you just as pissed off as if you had someone tap 2 Islands and go "Countered."
Anybody who says otherwise is lying to the community and lying to themselves.
The stereotypical entitled Magic player wants to play their spells, whatever they are, and have them stick...PERMANENTLY. They hate removal of any kind. But boy, they sure love it in THEIR deck.
"Mwaa, ha ha. Kill that!"
But have it done to them?
"You SOB, you exiled my Griselbrand"
The hypocrisy in this game is laughable.
I'm a blue mage at heart. Blue is fine. Blue will survive. And if it's not tier 1 for 6 months, boo hoo kitty. So what?
1/50 of this set is uncounterable and blue mages are having a cow.
Really?
How about enjoying the great cards that we DO have in this set. I am salivating over some of this stuff. This may be the best set to have come out in years.
Don't like blue? Play another color for crying out loud. I will if I have to.
Why? Because I love the game more than I love saying "Countered." I think Golgari is going to be the nuts come October. I can't wait.
Today is a sad day to admit to being a Magic player if I go by some of the crap I've read here.
It's among the worst. Luckily it is a reprint and the old art, while bad, outclasses this by a mile.
I am assuming one is the Lich that carries conditions for coming in. Cant think of the other.
Think of this as an easier to cast Wolly thats uncounterable. I feel it will see play.
What creatures were those? I'm guessing the 5/4 was Wooly Thocter?
EDIT Ahhh that artifact lich guy and thoctar? Thanks.
Also if I may, I'm guessing that there will be a decent counterspell still coming. Only 2 blue cards revealed thus far. I'm guessing that next week will focus on Seleysna and Azorius more since this week we got a ton of Rakdos and Golgari, either that or more mono colored cards.
Hard counters come in the 3 cmc variety. Have you not read the memo?
Except Wolly saw play.