If you look at other x cost counters like Broken Ambitions or Condescend, they had better secondary abilities....
Even if you just made x=1, there are still far better, less played counters in standard than this thing. It didn't even see any action in any decks during it's initial printing in Odyssey. It didn't work then, and it won't work now. So, yes, I still call it useless.
Actually, Broken Ambitions didn't see play for its Clash ability, which was... interesting, but basically a wash. Ambitions was played because it was the best/only counter that could hit anything on turn 2 in that format, and everyone was already maxed out on Cryptic Commands.
Syncopate was in a similar position in its first printing. It was a counter that could hit whatever random two-drops they had with some slight upside (as well as marginal late-game utility), and since you could only play four Counterspell and Circular Logic needed help, decks that wanted more of this effect ended up playing a few copies of Syncopate.
If it weren't for the, uh, structural elements of the format making counterspells basically terrible, Syncopate would definitely see tons of play as the best turn-two counter in postrotation standard. As it stands, it might just be edged out by Negate/Izzet Charm/[something we haven't seen yet] mainboard and Dissipate or another hardcounter sideboard.
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I agree; blue not having an instant that can stop every spell type in existence is complete crap when every other color can do it while white/green gets a buff creature that will get chumped all day. WotC is unfair!
Man, Wizards just took a **** on Liliana of the Veil
lmao, my thoughts exactly...
Whats up with so much "Cannot be countered" stuff...I dont like counter magic any more than the next red mage but it seems excessive. Maybe blue is overdue for the next cryptic command? A new staple counterspell?
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Whats up with so much "Cannot be countered" stuff...I dont like counter magic any more than the next red mage but it seems excessive. Maybe blue is overdue for the next cryptic command? A new staple counterspell?
Comparing it to Mana Leak again; in order to get a similar effect, i.e. unless they pay 3, you would have to make Syncopate cost 4. At that point, you might as well be playing Rewind instead. If you look at other x cost counters like Broken Ambitions or Condescend, they had better secondary abilities. For the exile ability, Dissipate would still see play before this. Mana leak still gets advantage because they have to pay 3 to your 2 (cost of Mana Leak). Late game, you would have to practically tap out for it to be effective. It's just not worth spending all that mana on it.
Even if you just made x=1, there are still far better, less played counters in standard than this thing. It didn't even see any action in any decks during it's initial printing in Odyssey. It didn't work then, and it won't work now. So, yes, I still call it useless.
Broken Ambitions was actually pretty painful to cast sometimes, since Unearth and Demigod of Revenge were legal.
That being said...Syncopate is MUCH MUCH better than Broken Ambitions since exiling cards is better than milling them in most conceivable Standard formats.
Understand, Dredge is not really a Magic: The Gathering deck. When a card is playable in it, it doesn't mean it's a tournament playable card. It means it's playable in whatever crazy fantasy world that Dredge operates in.
Broken Ambitions was good because it could also let you filter away a card, which was a pretty nice ability. Nonetheless, Syncopate's exiling ability is not to be discounted (though many players in this thread have done so) considering some of the best cards in the previous Block have Flashback or relevant graveyard based abilities. I imagine many players wanting a 2 mana counter are going to be happy when they can Syncopate a Lingering Souls and not have to worry about the two tokens coming out via Flashback.
And at the end of the day, more and more players are tapping out each turn (as the game becomes more involved with player interaction at the permanent level) for their best cards, meaning that Syncopate won't have to cost you a fortune, and if it does, Mana Leak probably wouldn't have been any help anyways.
Broken Ambitions was good because it could also let you filter away a card, which was a pretty nice ability. Nonetheless, Syncopate's exiling ability is not to be discounted (though many players in this thread have done so) considering some of the best cards in the previous Block have Flashback or relevant graveyard based abilities. I imagine many players wanting a 2 mana counter are going to be happy when they can Syncopate a Lingering Souls and not have to worry about the two tokens coming out via Flashback.
And at the end of the day, more and more players are tapping out each turn (as the game becomes more involved with player interaction at the permanent level) for their best cards, meaning that Syncopate won't have to cost you a fortune, and if it does, Mana Leak probably wouldn't have been any help anyways.
This is a really good point. And Syncopate never goes dead late game, which can be really important against R or B aggro decks with weenies.
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Seeing as blue had just lost Rune Snag, Delay, Mana Leak, and a slew of other situational counters, Broken Ambitions was one of the only options worth running that countered most spells. The only other real options were Cryptic Command, which cost 4, and Cancel/Faerie Trickery which just weren't good enough compared to all the turn two counters.
Broken Ambitions wasn't actually that good of a card, and neither is Syncopate. The only reason it would see play is if no other good counterspells are printed in the set -which, in all honesty, is actually somewhat likely. Wizards has decided to stop supporting its real playerbase as of late in favor of catering to children.
Wasn't there a counterspell that was something like "B+X to cast, counter target spell unless opponent pays X mana, opponent must tap lands in response to this spell regardless of whether he has enough to pay the cost X"
Am I crazy? Did that exist? I vaguely remember something like it.
Ok both these cards are great. Synco is an awesome counterspell. Exile for 1U on turn 2 is great. Punishes curve out decks and makes flasback spells useless. Great card. Then you can make people tapout when they play their spells to make sure you land your game changing spell. Expert card.
The smiter is awesome aswell. I like how its an answer to the most played pw in standard and modern. But not just that. It comes down turn 2 and is a 4/4. the uncounterability is just more of a plus.
On to the secondary topic here. Counterspells are considered boring by wotc. At any time they dominate a format it becomes undesirable for a ton of players. Thankfully there has only been about 3 times that a counter deck was the best deck. Remind me if im missing something. When force was released and keldoran outpost was out, Finkle made the deck forbidan and then an extreme counter deck placed top 4 at worlds around tempest times. Other than that and thankfully it never really dominated. Wizards try not to make a lot of good counters or else modern and extended will become miserable. Also I think that is why the amount of cant be countered spells are coming out. Probably rigjt now is the best time. Blue is an aggro color currently. Between delver and geist. You call it tempo. Its just aggro with a splash of control. Just a different style of control. BUT I think either a really good counter is cominf, like force and this is an early way to stop it from complete dominance or they are simply making these as they really dont matter at the moment incase a format controled by counters do come.
Wasn't there a counterspell that was something like "B+X to cast, counter target spell unless opponent pays X mana, opponent must tap lands in response to this spell regardless of whether he has enough to pay the cost X"
Am I crazy? Did that exist? I vaguely remember something like it.
Power sink , i believe is what you are thinking about.
Wasn't there a counterspell that was something like "B+X to cast, counter target spell unless opponent pays X mana, opponent must tap lands in response to this spell regardless of whether he has enough to pay the cost X"
Am I crazy? Did that exist? I vaguely remember something like it.
power sink its half of syncopate. Power sink and dissapate
I loved power sink back in the day, w/ mana drain and real cs. Life was grand.
And was in big blue. Probably the most dominate deck in history. Talking about time here. Was the deck from alpha to ice age basically. Yeah some other decks came and went but its the constant.
Its a good counterspell and all of the uncounterables could easily see play in different versions of control decks, helping them in their most difficult matchup: (currently) tempo.
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1) It's not how many total cards are in a set, it's how often we see them. We're definitely going to see the 1GW guy a lot. By ratio, Jace and SFM were only two cards out of Worldwake.
Yes, this is a problem. Creatures with EtB abilities used to be novel. But since about Lorwyn it seems like every creature is "spell-ture". Counterspells are the only effective counter to spelltures. When we had Blightning and BBE in their prime, people simply stopped playing counterspells because they were poor answers to the most popular threats. And when everyone's spells always resolved, Magic became predictable. And then maindeck Spreading Seas happened. NEVER AGAIN.
Feel free to rebut with "Well, the real problem is that Murder doesn't answer Snapcaster, Geist, or Engine."
Blue mages complaining about ETB is just hilarious - you think any other colour could stop ETB effects ever? It hurts to be treated like everyone else I guess
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Seeing as blue had just lost Rune Snag, Delay, Mana Leak, and a slew of other situational counters, Broken Ambitions was one of the only options worth running that countered most spells. The only other real options were Cryptic Command, which cost 4, and Cancel/Faerie Trickery which just weren't good enough compared to all the turn two counters.
Broken Ambitions wasn't actually that good of a card, and neither is Syncopate. The only reason it would see play is if no other good counterspells are printed in the set -which, in all honesty, is actually somewhat likely. Wizards has decided to stop supporting its real playerbase as of late in favor of catering to children.
If it is good enough to see play, it's a good card. Not being as good as another card does not mean a card is not good. It simply means there are better cards. Shock is not better than Lightning Bolt, but Shock has seen play when Lightning Bolt hasn't been an option. Syncopate may not be as good as Mana Leak, but if it's the best option availible for an otherwise viable archetype, it'll see play and people will praise how effective it is.
Syncopate was in a similar position in its first printing. It was a counter that could hit whatever random two-drops they had with some slight upside (as well as marginal late-game utility), and since you could only play four Counterspell and Circular Logic needed help, decks that wanted more of this effect ended up playing a few copies of Syncopate.
If it weren't for the, uh, structural elements of the format making counterspells basically terrible, Syncopate would definitely see tons of play as the best turn-two counter in postrotation standard. As it stands, it might just be edged out by Negate/Izzet Charm/[something we haven't seen yet] mainboard and Dissipate or another hardcounter sideboard.
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lmao, my thoughts exactly...
Whats up with so much "Cannot be countered" stuff...I dont like counter magic any more than the next red mage but it seems excessive. Maybe blue is overdue for the next cryptic command? A new staple counterspell?
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It's 5 cards in a 274 card block. Real excessive.
Broken Ambitions was actually pretty painful to cast sometimes, since Unearth and Demigod of Revenge were legal.
That being said...Syncopate is MUCH MUCH better than Broken Ambitions since exiling cards is better than milling them in most conceivable Standard formats.
Modern:
Something new every week
Legacy:
Something new everyweek
And at the end of the day, more and more players are tapping out each turn (as the game becomes more involved with player interaction at the permanent level) for their best cards, meaning that Syncopate won't have to cost you a fortune, and if it does, Mana Leak probably wouldn't have been any help anyways.
This is a really good point. And Syncopate never goes dead late game, which can be really important against R or B aggro decks with weenies.
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Broken Ambitions wasn't actually that good of a card, and neither is Syncopate. The only reason it would see play is if no other good counterspells are printed in the set -which, in all honesty, is actually somewhat likely. Wizards has decided to stop supporting its real playerbase as of late in favor of catering to children.
Am I crazy? Did that exist? I vaguely remember something like it.
The smiter is awesome aswell. I like how its an answer to the most played pw in standard and modern. But not just that. It comes down turn 2 and is a 4/4. the uncounterability is just more of a plus.
On to the secondary topic here. Counterspells are considered boring by wotc. At any time they dominate a format it becomes undesirable for a ton of players. Thankfully there has only been about 3 times that a counter deck was the best deck. Remind me if im missing something. When force was released and keldoran outpost was out, Finkle made the deck forbidan and then an extreme counter deck placed top 4 at worlds around tempest times. Other than that and thankfully it never really dominated. Wizards try not to make a lot of good counters or else modern and extended will become miserable. Also I think that is why the amount of cant be countered spells are coming out. Probably rigjt now is the best time. Blue is an aggro color currently. Between delver and geist. You call it tempo. Its just aggro with a splash of control. Just a different style of control. BUT I think either a really good counter is cominf, like force and this is an early way to stop it from complete dominance or they are simply making these as they really dont matter at the moment incase a format controled by counters do come.
Power sink , i believe is what you are thinking about.
It would've been cool if syncopate was an upgraded power sink.
I loved power sink back in the day, w/ mana drain and real cs. Life was grand.
And was in big blue. Probably the most dominate deck in history. Talking about time here. Was the deck from alpha to ice age basically. Yeah some other decks came and went but its the constant.
RGGruul Aggro
WSoul Sisters
WBTokens
BUGRRestore Balance
BMono-Black Infect
EDH:
RGWMayael, the Anima
GWURoon of the Hidden Realm
BDrana, Kalastria Bloodchief
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I have no problem with the cycle, I said I'd quit if they dropped counter spells like they dropped land destruction.
1) It's not how many total cards are in a set, it's how often we see them. We're definitely going to see the 1GW guy a lot. By ratio, Jace and SFM were only two cards out of Worldwake.
2) Kind of related to #1, Cavern of Souls.
Yes, this is a problem. Creatures with EtB abilities used to be novel. But since about Lorwyn it seems like every creature is "spell-ture". Counterspells are the only effective counter to spelltures. When we had Blightning and BBE in their prime, people simply stopped playing counterspells because they were poor answers to the most popular threats. And when everyone's spells always resolved, Magic became predictable. And then maindeck Spreading Seas happened. NEVER AGAIN.
Feel free to rebut with "Well, the real problem is that Murder doesn't answer Snapcaster, Geist, or Engine."
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If it is good enough to see play, it's a good card. Not being as good as another card does not mean a card is not good. It simply means there are better cards. Shock is not better than Lightning Bolt, but Shock has seen play when Lightning Bolt hasn't been an option. Syncopate may not be as good as Mana Leak, but if it's the best option availible for an otherwise viable archetype, it'll see play and people will praise how effective it is.