I think a lot of people misjudge this card. Your strategy will not depend on this card; this card will simply be a backup solution if your main strategy fails. A backup solution that is virtually free*.
*Adding this to your deck has negligible impact on your main strategy.
This is no barbarian ring.... it takes 3 turns to set up and use which in red deck is a death sentence because you're using all your mana to set up a 4/4 which can be blocked. It's a colorless land which red doesn't want a lot of since it wants to play multiple things a turn and colorless lands will hold them back. In short.... will see play briefly while people try it but won't make the cut.
I think a lot of people misjudge this card. Your strategy will not depend on this card; this card will simply be a backup solution if your main strategy fails. A backup solution that is virtually free*.
*Adding this to your deck has negligible impact on your main strategy.
Full marks for you.
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This thing might work in modern jund. This is a new manland really
No marks for you. Jund doesnt need more colourless land.
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I think a lot of people misjudge this card. Your strategy will not depend on this card; this card will simply be a backup solution if your main strategy fails. A backup solution that is virtually free*.
*Adding this to your deck has negligible impact on your main strategy.
Yeah, if I played RDW, I would run this for the same reason I play Haunted Fengraf in my mono blue bounce (so fun :)) deck. So what it produces colorless? It enters untapped and my deck is mono colored. Having lands that can do more than just produce mana is a huge advantage.
If I want a 4/4 hasty, I want it to surprise my opponent, not spend two turns clearly visibly setting it up to all opponents. Also, I can't spring this on anyone early either because it can't activate any sooner than turn 3 even with ramp since it can't pay it's own activation cost. This land is unplayable in constructed.
If I want a 4/4 hasty, I want it to surprise my opponent, not spend two turns clearly visibly setting it up to all opponents. Also, I can't spring this on anyone early either because it can't activate any sooner than turn 3 even with ramp since it can't pay it's own activation cost. This land is unplayable in constructed.
Its a late game land, it will prolly see more play in modern then standard. When u have nothing to play, put a counter on it, and make a hellion late game. Its not bad as a man land. I wish it produced a red instead of colorless, thats dumb though
I personally love this card. This is nice in a midrange build, which allows you to, when not curving up, actually put your mana towards something rather than it just sit there useless. Opponents EOT, activate the ability since you didn't cast anything, and next EOT activate it for a creature to equip with a sword. It's an extra body that doubles for mana, it's no Dryad Arbor of course, but still good, makes me want to play red.
If I want a 4/4 hasty, I want it to surprise my opponent, not spend two turns clearly visibly setting it up to all opponents. Also, I can't spring this on anyone early either because it can't activate any sooner than turn 3 even with ramp since it can't pay it's own activation cost. This land is unplayable in constructed.
That's a brave statement considering constructed now is not going to look anything like constructed in just over 3 months time. At virtually no cost (this produces colorless instead of red), this gives you yet another way to use ALL of your mana as efficiently as possible every single turn. It lets you hold mana open all the way until the end of your opponents turn without wasting it- considering that you're playing a red deck, just about any card in your hand can effectively bluff a burn spell, just like blue decks have been bluffing counterspells and bounce for years.
No, this card isn't going to go and set the world on fire, but it strikes me as INCREDIBLY premature to say it won't see competitive play ever.
In fact, I REALLY hope RTR makes it possible to play some variant of counter-burn again, as I'm pretty sure that deck-style would adore this card.
Paying 2 or 3 over multiple turns is a much easier investment to make than paying 6 straight up. It's easier to leave 3 untapped than 6 for surprise blocks, and you could actually setup more than one of these at a time.
it's actually 9 mana cause it taps itself as part of the cost. 9 mana over 3 turns is really terrible for a 4/4 hasty creature who's no surprise to anyone. Compared to Hell's Thunder this card is REALLY terrible. Just cause it's a land that gives you some effect doesn't automatically make it playable.
If you're looking for a reason that the mana investment over multiple turns is important, ask yourself why Think Twice sees play instead of Divination. The flashback cost is just as high as it, but the instant speed means you can play it at the end of somebody's turn if you have leftover mana from leaving a counter open with no net loss.
It loses to Snag pretty badly, but I doubt Unsummon or Silent Departure will see the same amount of play once it rotates. There are plenty of metas in which this is a very good card.
it's actually 9 mana cause it taps itself as part of the cost. 9 mana over 3 turns is really terrible for a 4/4 hasty creature who's no surprise to anyone. Compared to Hell's Thunder this card is REALLY terrible. Just cause it's a land that gives you some effect doesn't automatically make it playable.
Nobody said it was playable because it had an effect. I mean, Pirahna Marsh. What they ARE saying is that as a backup plan in a red deck, it's fine. And it is. I don't know if you've ever seriously played red, but I have and I can tell you it runs through cards fast...not mana though. Red is the king of undercosted aggressive cards. This card allows you to have a backup plan on those occasions where you're just getting mana flooded. This card provides that last 4 damage you need. The cost of running it is the simple cost of weakening your colored mana pool a wee bit...which isn't all that bad, considering.
If you're looking for a reason that the mana investment over multiple turns is important, ask yourself why Think Twice sees play instead of Divination. The flashback cost is just as high as it, but the instant speed means you can play it at the end of somebody's turn if you have leftover mana from leaving a counter open with no net loss.
It loses to Snag pretty badly, but I doubt Unsummon or Silent Departure will see the same amount of play once it rotates. There are plenty of metas in which this is a very good card.
Terrible comparison.... Instant speed draw is more powerful because it allows mana up for counters. Instant speed creatures (that your opponent can clearly see coming) aren't that big of a deal.
Nobody said it was playable because it had an effect. I mean, Pirahna Marsh. What they ARE saying is that as a backup plan in a red deck, it's fine. And it is. I don't know if you've ever seriously played red, but I have and I can tell you it runs through cards fast...not mana though. Red is the king of undercosted aggressive cards. This card allows you to have a backup plan on those occasions where you're just getting mana flooded. This card provides that last 4 damage you need. The cost of running it is the simple cost of weakening your colored mana pool a wee bit...which isn't all that bad, considering.
but it's not "that last 4 damage" because you've given your opponent 2+ turns to prepare for it. It's not direct damage which is what it needed to be. As it is I can answer it with creature removal, bounce, a creature of my own to block and land destruction. I ran red deck for a little while with tech edge to kill man-lands. And without fail those tech edges would cripple my ability to go all out because they weren't red. If this tapped for R I'd say it's a no brainer. As a colorless land I don't think it's that good.
but it's not "that last 4 damage" because you've given your opponent 2+ turns to prepare for it. It's not direct damage which is what it needed to be. As it is I can answer it with creature removal, bounce, a creature of my own to block and land destruction.
It's a creature when you don't have anything else to do. At no cost to your plan in deckbuilding. Using mana that otherwise does nothing. If it does ANYTHING, even just waste their cards, then it's done SOMETHING for the low-low cost of being efficient with your leftover mana. What don't you get about that?
It's a creature when you don't have anything else to do. At no cost to your plan in deckbuilding. Using mana that otherwise does nothing. If it does ANYTHING, even just waste their cards, then it's done SOMETHING for the low-low cost of being efficient with your leftover mana. What don't you get about that?
My point is what this adds to your "late game" in RDW is so marginal compared to the tempo loss if you're RR creatures have to come down later is not worth it in my book. If your RDW plan B is this guy you're in bad shape to begin with. I don't know exactly what RDW will be running after rotation but if it includes any RR creatures this will be hard to play. It's just not as good as everyone seems to think it is but that's ok you go right ahead and try it.
My point is what this adds to your "late game" in RDW is so marginal compared to the tempo loss if you're RR creatures have to come down later is not worth it in my book. If your RDW plan B is this guy you're in bad shape to begin with. I don't know exactly what RDW will be running after rotation but if it includes any RR creatures this will be hard to play. It's just not as good as everyone seems to think it is but that's ok you go right ahead and try it.
Tell me, if I'm playing red and I end a turn with three mana left over and nothing to do with it so I use it to place a counter on Crucible...how is that a tempo loss? It's using what you have to its best potential. I'm not saying that if you're using this card you HAVE to focus on getting counters on it...but when you got nothing better to do, why NOT get it ready? It's not a tempo loss if there isn't any tempo to BE lost. And how's this a bad backup? If you don't have anything, something is better than nothing. Ta-da.
M13 is full of good cards. Neither game breaking or complete trash. This card, in my opinion, will not see real tournament play after M12 rotates out. Also, if I am being flooded, I rather have something like a Devil's Play or the new Phoenix to feed, not a potential 4/4 after 2 turns. That said, like others have said, there is little harm in running this card. There are not many double red spells that are played.
Interesting, but very random... just like all of M13.
Could be useful in Boros to push through damage after a board wipe.
The sacrifice feels superfluous - it's not like one 4/4 for six mana every three turns would be game breaking...
Edit: 9 mana, really, since the crucible itself is a land drop.
*Adding this to your deck has negligible impact on your main strategy.
Full marks for you.
No marks for you. Jund doesnt need more colourless land.
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Yeah, if I played RDW, I would run this for the same reason I play Haunted Fengraf in my mono blue bounce (so fun :)) deck. So what it produces colorless? It enters untapped and my deck is mono colored. Having lands that can do more than just produce mana is a huge advantage.
Its a late game land, it will prolly see more play in modern then standard. When u have nothing to play, put a counter on it, and make a hellion late game. Its not bad as a man land. I wish it produced a red instead of colorless, thats dumb though
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Yea i dont understand why its colorless instead of red, that part does suck.
That's a brave statement considering constructed now is not going to look anything like constructed in just over 3 months time. At virtually no cost (this produces colorless instead of red), this gives you yet another way to use ALL of your mana as efficiently as possible every single turn. It lets you hold mana open all the way until the end of your opponents turn without wasting it- considering that you're playing a red deck, just about any card in your hand can effectively bluff a burn spell, just like blue decks have been bluffing counterspells and bounce for years.
No, this card isn't going to go and set the world on fire, but it strikes me as INCREDIBLY premature to say it won't see competitive play ever.
In fact, I REALLY hope RTR makes it possible to play some variant of counter-burn again, as I'm pretty sure that deck-style would adore this card.
it's actually 9 mana cause it taps itself as part of the cost. 9 mana over 3 turns is really terrible for a 4/4 hasty creature who's no surprise to anyone. Compared to Hell's Thunder this card is REALLY terrible. Just cause it's a land that gives you some effect doesn't automatically make it playable.
What Modern format are you playing where 21 mana over six turns for a pair of hasty 4/4's is anything resembling a deal?
It loses to Snag pretty badly, but I doubt Unsummon or Silent Departure will see the same amount of play once it rotates. There are plenty of metas in which this is a very good card.
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Nobody said it was playable because it had an effect. I mean, Pirahna Marsh. What they ARE saying is that as a backup plan in a red deck, it's fine. And it is. I don't know if you've ever seriously played red, but I have and I can tell you it runs through cards fast...not mana though. Red is the king of undercosted aggressive cards. This card allows you to have a backup plan on those occasions where you're just getting mana flooded. This card provides that last 4 damage you need. The cost of running it is the simple cost of weakening your colored mana pool a wee bit...which isn't all that bad, considering.
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Terrible comparison.... Instant speed draw is more powerful because it allows mana up for counters. Instant speed creatures (that your opponent can clearly see coming) aren't that big of a deal.
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but it's not "that last 4 damage" because you've given your opponent 2+ turns to prepare for it. It's not direct damage which is what it needed to be. As it is I can answer it with creature removal, bounce, a creature of my own to block and land destruction. I ran red deck for a little while with tech edge to kill man-lands. And without fail those tech edges would cripple my ability to go all out because they weren't red. If this tapped for R I'd say it's a no brainer. As a colorless land I don't think it's that good.
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It's a creature when you don't have anything else to do. At no cost to your plan in deckbuilding. Using mana that otherwise does nothing. If it does ANYTHING, even just waste their cards, then it's done SOMETHING for the low-low cost of being efficient with your leftover mana. What don't you get about that?
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My point is what this adds to your "late game" in RDW is so marginal compared to the tempo loss if you're RR creatures have to come down later is not worth it in my book. If your RDW plan B is this guy you're in bad shape to begin with. I don't know exactly what RDW will be running after rotation but if it includes any RR creatures this will be hard to play. It's just not as good as everyone seems to think it is but that's ok you go right ahead and try it.
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Tell me, if I'm playing red and I end a turn with three mana left over and nothing to do with it so I use it to place a counter on Crucible...how is that a tempo loss? It's using what you have to its best potential. I'm not saying that if you're using this card you HAVE to focus on getting counters on it...but when you got nothing better to do, why NOT get it ready? It's not a tempo loss if there isn't any tempo to BE lost. And how's this a bad backup? If you don't have anything, something is better than nothing. Ta-da.
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Could be useful in Boros to push through damage after a board wipe.
The sacrifice feels superfluous - it's not like one 4/4 for six mana every three turns would be game breaking...
Edit: 9 mana, really, since the crucible itself is a land drop.