percentages are percentages, though, regardless of sample size. 80% of a million or 80% of a thousand is still a huge majority.
and nobody cares, because the number of people rejoining the game and going to events now that the $400 stranglehold on the format has been loosened will more than likely outweigh the crybabies quitting over bannings. see post-affinity Standard era.
#1: ouch, my eyes.
#2: nobody is forcing anyone to buy expensive cards. if you are into the competitive scene and going to GPs and PTs, then that is a lifestyle choice yo uhave made and you just have to accept the nature of the game includes buying cards to be able to play whatever is the best deck at the time, and that the game is constantly in flux.
sets rotate, metagames shift, cards get banned and/or lose value. it's the nature of the game. if it is a problem, then maybe you should rethink whether or not it is worth the investment in relation to how much fun you are having and money you have to spend to "keep up" with the game.
so what interests you is playing with and against the same deck over and over week after week? that sounds way more boring than the loss of two cards out of several hundred in a format opening the door for innovation and variety.
as had been stated innumerable times over the years, they have no say or interest in the secondary market. also, as has also been stated several times in this thread already, tournament/event attendance had taken a hit recently, and these banning will more than likely garner more support from people coming back to the game. i haven't played standard in ages, but this is almost making me want to try to piece something together for an FNM...but i have no Titans, so prob won't happen.
^this.
Batterskull is a much weaker card without a two mana tutor that also allows you to save 3 mana on it's mana cost, as well as getting it in past counterspells. aggro decks stand a much better chance when the 'Skull isn't coming down on turn 3 or 4.
True, Batterskull itself is not ban worthy, but banning Batterskull and leaving Mystic allows WW and Boros to come back to the party. That's why I felt a temporary ban would be beneficial, it would allow aggro to flourish again because banning Batterskull enables more decks than banning SFM.
I'm watching Jace tank in value like at the end of Trading Spaces.
Yep. Perfect time to (finally) pick up Jace.
I wonder if they considered banning those cards from being in the same deck? It would have removed Caw-Blade as effectively as banning, and it would have allowed all the Tier 2 to swoop.
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"If you don't wear your seatbelt, the police will shoot you in the head."
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
I just lost hundreds of dollars. Valakut will dominate for the next few months. SO MUCH RAGE. F*** you WIZARDS. Why couldn't they ban one or the other? THIS IS BULL****
>_> ... I dunno .. Suck it up? I sucked it up when I came back to Magic 4 years later and found out my binder, once worth $1000 is now worth $10 ... I mean, Burning Tree Shaman was like $15 then $.50, and Char was then $12 now $.50 ..
The sparkmage shrieked, calling on the rage of the storms of his youth.
To his surprise, the sky responded with a fierce energy he'd never thought to see again.
>_> ... I dunno .. Suck it up? I sucked it up when I came back to Magic 4 years later and found out my binder, once worth $1000 is now worth $10 ... I mean, Burning Tree Shaman was like $15 then $.50, and Char was then $12 now $.50 ..
Towards the end Caw felt like Jund, not simply because it dominated, but because its represented numbers lead to such an inflated top 8 apperance. I was happy to see non Caw Blade decks succeed in recent weeks because I felt it would keep the ban hammer from dropping, because it showed people what myself and many others secretly knew, that Caw Blade was strong, but it was far from the Goliath that people made it out to be.
Forsythe's explanation of the bannings does give a clearer view of how they regard the results of torunaments as to the necessity of banning cards in Standard; if there is a clear deck dominance they first try to ease the problem with some last minute additions to an upcoming set that might be effective enough to remove the problem- New Phyrexia had Hex Parisite and Despise as answers to Jace- but if any of these solutions fail to work, and as a result tournament attendance drops, then the ban hammer is going to swing.
It is awesome that Cawblade was only 25-50% of the Top 8 of many of the more publicized events, but the attendance levels at FNMs, PTQs and even Magic Online were dropping. Wizards is less concerned with a single deck's competitive dominance because often the metagame shifts enough to compesate for one particular deck, but when it does not and people stop wanting to go out and play competitve Magic in the first place, it's an issue. Anyone yelling about wanting to quit is going to outvoiced many times by players that have quit playing competitive Magic because of the stale state of the format, and Wizards is going to be far more concerned with solving the imminent problem, not the one that might occur (and likely won't).
Lastly, as to the notion of players quitting because of the price drops of Jace and Stoneforge Mystic; it was going to happen anyway, and everything freaking out about it is just going to make them drop even more than they might have had they not been banned in the first place but simply rotated out of Standard in the fall as per usual. The loss of the two cards in Standard for 3 months is made up by massive gains in a loosening of restrictive deck building, and as mentioned by Forsythe each enjoys play in multiple other formats in which they are legal; the very fact that Jace is good enough to play in Vintage should be a strong enough indicator that he might be too good to play in Standard.
I have been playing competitive and semi-competitive Magic since the Black Summer, and Cawblade's negative effect on Standard is only superceded by Affinity because games involving Affinity did not require the level of skill that Cawblade does, or Jund or Fae did. Someone was right that this is a sad day for Magic, because it breaks what was a pretty solid streak of keeping Magic a relatively healthy and enjoying format (though there will always be the ups and the downs), and you can bet your backsides that there are people at Wizards who feel the sting of shame over this just as strongly as some players feel their joy or outrage. Needing to ban a card, let alone two, is a Bad Thing, and we can atleast take some solace in that the decision came with great care and was done in a manner that did not take much away from either card's time in Standard.
3 months away from rotation...there should seriously be some thought into doing these things WHEN THEY NEED TO BE DONE... lol
Well, they saved the Regionals and Nationals tourneys, which is why I think they had to do something. Falling attendance for such important events is a problem, now more people will hopefully be encouraged to return for them. I know I am
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Tournament Victories:
Indianapolis Regionals 2009 (Standard)
Worldwake Gameday (Limited)
Too bad .. I had none of those .. SO SAD Ghost councils became $.50 .. It was $10 .. Call of the Herd became $.25, it was $10 .. Tooooo many examples !! Rumbling Slum! Loxodon Hierarch!! SO SAD .. ='( AND my best cards got ripped away from me by sharks when I just got back .. Like Foil Sliver Legion .. Tarmogoyf .. Vesuva .. Bridge from Below .. sad .
The sparkmage shrieked, calling on the rage of the storms of his youth.
To his surprise, the sky responded with a fierce energy he'd never thought to see again.
One last thing before I log out for the night: I was stunned that this thread was almost three pages before the first complaints emerged. I don't know if I could ever say I'm proud of MTGSally, but it was a pleasant and welcome surprise. Between that and the site's overall reaction to NPH, it almost feels like the website is somewhat reasonable and rational :p.
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Sufferer of EDHD
Commander - Currently Playing: RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G) RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B) WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
While i'm a bit sad to see them go from standard early, I fully understand the reasons why and applaud wizards for having the courage to ban both JTMS and Stoneforge. Banning just one would have simply led to a format dominated by the other and banning Batterskull would have only slightly weakened cawblade and barely affected the format at all.
I own a playset of both (in japanese even) so the drop in value hurts a bit, but since both are incredibly powerful and seeing play in extended and legacy i'll happily keep a hold of them.
My one concern with this is that we're going to go back to the pre cawblade Valakut metagame. Which would given a couple of weeks be just as annoying as the cawblade metagame. Hopefully though we've had enough new cards and strategies enabled since then(including a 2nd fast combo in splintertwin) that the metagame will diversify properly.
Well, they saved the Regionals and Nationals tourneys, which is why I think they had to do something. Falling attendance for such important events is a problem, now more people will hopefully be encouraged to return for them. I know I am
I bet it will be even better this year, because it will be an undefined meta game. The Top 8 will be all over the place, and it will be even more skill intensive than the pre-banning meta game, because you will have to play through anything and everything.
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"If you don't wear your seatbelt, the police will shoot you in the head."
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
One last thing before I log out for the night: I was stunned that this thread was almost three pages before the first complaints emerged. I don't know if I could ever say I'm proud of MTGSally, but it was a pleasant and welcome surprise. Between that and the site's overall reaction to NPH, it almost feels like the website is somewhat reasonable and rational :p.
lol, I don't see the banning having an effect on my local meta,as one pleyr only had the four jaces in a deck and he sold them.
I just lost hundreds of dollars. Valakut will dominate for the next few months. SO MUCH RAGE. F*** you WIZARDS. Why couldn't they ban one or the other? THIS IS BULL****
"WA WA WA! They banned cards that only competitive players used, knowing that we already naturally picked up and dropped cards depending on meta game shifts!"
If you are playing competitively, don't try to bull**** us by raging over the banning of two cards. We all know that you would have dropped the cards in the bargain bin if a new best deck had popped up.
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"If you don't wear your seatbelt, the police will shoot you in the head."
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
I was gonna say something else, but really, it makes no difference. I cracked 2 jaces and a stoneforge from boosters, I bought the event deck, and now that both are banned I actually feel relieved.
This wasn't magic, this was "win through stoneforge, jace and those stupid birds".
So the people that feel cheated will rant, as I always say no one is forced to play this game, not even the pros. I was at Worlds in Chiba and with some other players the consensus was that there are far better ways to make money than to play magic. If you do this, it's because you like doing it or are too afraid of doing something else.
Every time one buys a card for expensive prices due to power reasons, there is an implicit gambit of it being banned or rotating or being trumped and plummeting, just like the guy that hoarded 4 Splinter twins because they were really cute suddenly had a small fortune. (I remember myself opening a scapeshift and cursing my luck)
Metagame was stale - yes it was.
The cards were too powerful - yes they were
Good riddance.
Go ahead, complain, get it out of your system. If you want to leave the game, just make sure to do it for good and let the rest of us have our fun. Cheers.
"When you show up to the Mirrodin Besieged Prerelease, you'll be asked to choose a faction: Mirran, Phyrexian, or Jaded A-Hole" Aaron Forsythe, on Twitter
Everything changes, nothing remains without a change - Buddha
"WA WA WA! They banned cards that only competitive players used, knowing that we already naturally picked up and dropped cards depending on meta game shifts!"
If you are playing competitively, don't try to bull**** us by raging over the banning of two cards. We all know that you would have dropped the cards in the bargain bin if a new best deck had popped up.
I think some people don't understand that the Mirrans are the bad guys. Arcbound Ravager is Mirran. Phyrexia are the good guys coming in to conquer an evil, evil world.
I and one of my friends skipped Game Day because of Caw-Blade.
I have been *****ing about Jace since his release and have lost interest in Standard since Caw-Blade started roflstomping it.
I am so incredibly psyched about this you have no idea. I was literally alone in the apartment, and I started cheering when I read this announcement.
I am glad to see that Wizards is not so blue-biased that they allowed this deck to live. This gives me some real faith in the caretakers of my favorite card game.
Is it cans be elves times nao? I like this, although I'll miss stoneforge quite a bit. I've had her for a while, ever since my first janky kor equipment deck, never traded my original playset. She had a place in a lot of alternative decks of mine, like tempered steel, but I guess that's the way things go.
On the other hand, RDW is gonna get a boost from this I think. With goblin grenade being reprinted, it might be koth's time to shine.
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Some of the 950 things Mr. Welch can no longer do during an RPG:
11. Not allowed to berserk for the hell of it, especially during royal masquerades.
54. Cannot pimp out other party members.
106. I do not have weapon proficiency in cat.
190. Duel wielding small animals is strictly forbidden.
222. Druids are not against my religion.
349. Power Word: Beer Me is not a real spell.
622. Paladins make poor vikings. And vice versa.
Dammit, I just got a second job so I can afford to compete in this format known in my area as "Whoever has the most expensive cards wins."
Guess I'll just buy full art Highborns instead.
Maybe now I can finally get a damn Jace for my Niv-Mizzet EDH deck... I was about to trade basically a Bayou for one, but now it'll probably have to be more than just a Jace for it. =)
This actually only hurts Koth and Aggro to a lesser extent. They've had a good chance to shine since Caw has spent less time trying to beat them and more time trying to beat the mirror and Twin decks. Valakut and Twin are much less affected by Koth than Jace decks were. That said post rotation, there probably isn't a more powerful card (save maybe Tempered Steel)
Every time one buys a card for expensive prices due to power reasons, there is an implicit gambit of it being banned or rotating or being trumped and plummeting, just like the guy that hoarded 4 Splinter twins because they were really cute suddenly had a small fortune. (I remember myself opening a scapeshift and cursing my luck)
Same thing happen to me with Scapeshift, Pithing Needle, Sovereigns of Lost Alara and many more but its all been great thanks to friends who would explain the finer details, frankly there's only one guy at are place that plays Caw and even he was getting sick.
Speaking as a blue-white player who owns four Jaces but as been out of standard in part because I did not want to be another caw-blade guy.
Shurg.
JTMS is not a standard only card, this will correct him to $45-50 probably and there he will sit. Most rain and shine U/W people really impacted have had a set for ages and I hope they did not pay more than $50 per.
I just regret not taking the risk to sell and re-buy.
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Saki, Tsumo After Kon needed to be banned sadly. But I wish we could have kept Saki Miyanaga past the rotation.
I had 16 or so Stoneforges from when they were a dollar card and just waiting for good equipment (we KNEW swords were coming it was not a brain surgery investment. I just did not expect it to be this absurd) , so I made my investment there and would be an ass to get upset now. This was coming in 4 months anyway.
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Saki, Tsumo After Kon needed to be banned sadly. But I wish we could have kept Saki Miyanaga past the rotation.
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True, Batterskull itself is not ban worthy, but banning Batterskull and leaving Mystic allows WW and Boros to come back to the party. That's why I felt a temporary ban would be beneficial, it would allow aggro to flourish again because banning Batterskull enables more decks than banning SFM.
Yep. Perfect time to (finally) pick up Jace.
I wonder if they considered banning those cards from being in the same deck? It would have removed Caw-Blade as effectively as banning, and it would have allowed all the Tier 2 to swoop.
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
>_> ... I dunno .. Suck it up? I sucked it up when I came back to Magic 4 years later and found out my binder, once worth $1000 is now worth $10 ... I mean, Burning Tree Shaman was like $15 then $.50, and Char was then $12 now $.50 ..
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=6193029#post6193029
To his surprise, the sky responded with a fierce energy he'd never thought to see again.
Your confidants and doubling seasons went up!
Forsythe's explanation of the bannings does give a clearer view of how they regard the results of torunaments as to the necessity of banning cards in Standard; if there is a clear deck dominance they first try to ease the problem with some last minute additions to an upcoming set that might be effective enough to remove the problem- New Phyrexia had Hex Parisite and Despise as answers to Jace- but if any of these solutions fail to work, and as a result tournament attendance drops, then the ban hammer is going to swing.
It is awesome that Cawblade was only 25-50% of the Top 8 of many of the more publicized events, but the attendance levels at FNMs, PTQs and even Magic Online were dropping. Wizards is less concerned with a single deck's competitive dominance because often the metagame shifts enough to compesate for one particular deck, but when it does not and people stop wanting to go out and play competitve Magic in the first place, it's an issue. Anyone yelling about wanting to quit is going to outvoiced many times by players that have quit playing competitive Magic because of the stale state of the format, and Wizards is going to be far more concerned with solving the imminent problem, not the one that might occur (and likely won't).
Lastly, as to the notion of players quitting because of the price drops of Jace and Stoneforge Mystic; it was going to happen anyway, and everything freaking out about it is just going to make them drop even more than they might have had they not been banned in the first place but simply rotated out of Standard in the fall as per usual. The loss of the two cards in Standard for 3 months is made up by massive gains in a loosening of restrictive deck building, and as mentioned by Forsythe each enjoys play in multiple other formats in which they are legal; the very fact that Jace is good enough to play in Vintage should be a strong enough indicator that he might be too good to play in Standard.
I have been playing competitive and semi-competitive Magic since the Black Summer, and Cawblade's negative effect on Standard is only superceded by Affinity because games involving Affinity did not require the level of skill that Cawblade does, or Jund or Fae did. Someone was right that this is a sad day for Magic, because it breaks what was a pretty solid streak of keeping Magic a relatively healthy and enjoying format (though there will always be the ups and the downs), and you can bet your backsides that there are people at Wizards who feel the sting of shame over this just as strongly as some players feel their joy or outrage. Needing to ban a card, let alone two, is a Bad Thing, and we can atleast take some solace in that the decision came with great care and was done in a manner that did not take much away from either card's time in Standard.
3 months away from rotation...there should seriously be some thought into doing these things WHEN THEY NEED TO BE DONE... lol
Well, they saved the Regionals and Nationals tourneys, which is why I think they had to do something. Falling attendance for such important events is a problem, now more people will hopefully be encouraged to return for them. I know I am
Indianapolis Regionals 2009 (Standard)
Worldwake Gameday (Limited)
See my alters here: http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q16/jimmy2do/Cards/
Too bad .. I had none of those .. SO SAD Ghost councils became $.50 .. It was $10 .. Call of the Herd became $.25, it was $10 .. Tooooo many examples !! Rumbling Slum! Loxodon Hierarch!! SO SAD .. ='( AND my best cards got ripped away from me by sharks when I just got back .. Like Foil Sliver Legion .. Tarmogoyf .. Vesuva .. Bridge from Below .. sad .
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=6193029#post6193029
To his surprise, the sky responded with a fierce energy he'd never thought to see again.
RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR
WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG
GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG
GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G)
RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW
UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B)
WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
I own a playset of both (in japanese even) so the drop in value hurts a bit, but since both are incredibly powerful and seeing play in extended and legacy i'll happily keep a hold of them.
My one concern with this is that we're going to go back to the pre cawblade Valakut metagame. Which would given a couple of weeks be just as annoying as the cawblade metagame. Hopefully though we've had enough new cards and strategies enabled since then(including a 2nd fast combo in splintertwin) that the metagame will diversify properly.
Machius proudly supports R_E's right to Rumour!
I bet it will be even better this year, because it will be an undefined meta game. The Top 8 will be all over the place, and it will be even more skill intensive than the pre-banning meta game, because you will have to play through anything and everything.
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
me too. as i have my popcorn right beside me.
lol, I don't see the banning having an effect on my local meta,as one pleyr only had the four jaces in a deck and he sold them.
"WA WA WA! They banned cards that only competitive players used, knowing that we already naturally picked up and dropped cards depending on meta game shifts!"
If you are playing competitively, don't try to bull**** us by raging over the banning of two cards. We all know that you would have dropped the cards in the bargain bin if a new best deck had popped up.
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
This wasn't magic, this was "win through stoneforge, jace and those stupid birds".
So the people that feel cheated will rant, as I always say no one is forced to play this game, not even the pros. I was at Worlds in Chiba and with some other players the consensus was that there are far better ways to make money than to play magic. If you do this, it's because you like doing it or are too afraid of doing something else.
Every time one buys a card for expensive prices due to power reasons, there is an implicit gambit of it being banned or rotating or being trumped and plummeting, just like the guy that hoarded 4 Splinter twins because they were really cute suddenly had a small fortune. (I remember myself opening a scapeshift and cursing my luck)
Metagame was stale - yes it was.
The cards were too powerful - yes they were
Good riddance.
Go ahead, complain, get it out of your system. If you want to leave the game, just make sure to do it for good and let the rest of us have our fun. Cheers.
"When you show up to the Mirrodin Besieged Prerelease, you'll be asked to choose a faction: Mirran, Phyrexian, or Jaded A-Hole" Aaron Forsythe, on Twitter
Everything changes, nothing remains without a change - Buddha
Magic Rules Advisor
Torched him.
Nicely done
...And by burn in Hell I mean "see you the next time I play EDH. My blue decks love you so much Jace."
I have been *****ing about Jace since his release and have lost interest in Standard since Caw-Blade started roflstomping it.
I am so incredibly psyched about this you have no idea. I was literally alone in the apartment, and I started cheering when I read this announcement.
I am glad to see that Wizards is not so blue-biased that they allowed this deck to live. This gives me some real faith in the caretakers of my favorite card game.
On the other hand, RDW is gonna get a boost from this I think. With goblin grenade being reprinted, it might be koth's time to shine.
11. Not allowed to berserk for the hell of it, especially during royal masquerades.
54. Cannot pimp out other party members.
106. I do not have weapon proficiency in cat.
190. Duel wielding small animals is strictly forbidden.
222. Druids are not against my religion.
349. Power Word: Beer Me is not a real spell.
622. Paladins make poor vikings. And vice versa.
Guess I'll just buy full art Highborns instead.
Modern
RBig RedR
GMean GreenG
WWW AlliesW
BGScavengeBG
WUVenser SilenceWU
EDH
RWAurelia 1 vs 1RW
GWURoonGWU
GWSaffiGW
Edit:
Same thing happen to me with Scapeshift, Pithing Needle, Sovereigns of Lost Alara and many more but its all been great thanks to friends who would explain the finer details, frankly there's only one guy at are place that plays Caw and even he was getting sick.
Thanks to PurpleD from Left Play Designs for the banner:D
Shurg.
JTMS is not a standard only card, this will correct him to $45-50 probably and there he will sit. Most rain and shine U/W people really impacted have had a set for ages and I hope they did not pay more than $50 per.
I just regret not taking the risk to sell and re-buy.