I almost feel that Grave Titan will be incredibly useful comboed with Green to get him out early...(say turn 3) to use his built in CA to dominate face.
The green vs Non-Green argument is mind boggling..
A multi-colored card, like Pulse, is Green AND Black.
Putrid Leech is Green AND Black, thus why Doom Blade can not target it.
Because pulse is BOTH Green AND Black, it is not Non-Green.
Having black in it's CC does not make it NOT Green, it just makes it ALSO black.
You are wrong.
Pulse has G in it's casting cost, therefore pulse is Green. (It also happens to be black.)
A green spell can not be nongreen. (The spell is both green and black.)
Therefore, pulse can target revenge.
If a spell has G in the casting cost, it is green. If it has other symbols it will be those colors as well, but it does not stop being green, it just becomes other colors as well. Thrinax is 3 colors, one of which is black, so it can't be killed by doom blade, which says nonblack. It can, however, be killed by deathmark, which says green or white. It is not only green, but it is partly green, so it can be targeted by deathmark.
Pulse has G in it's casting cost, therefore pulse is Green. (It also happens to be black.)
A green spell can not be nongreen. (The spell is both green and black.)
Therefore, pulse can target revenge.
If a spell has G in the casting cost, it is green. If it has other symbols it will be those colors as well, but it does not stop being green, it just becomes other colors as well. Thrinax is 3 colors, one of which is black, so it can't be killed by doom blade, which says nonblack. It can, however, be killed by deathmark, which says green or white. It is not only green, but it is partly green, so it can be targeted by deathmark.
Umm you just said the same thing he did with different words...and called him wrong...your both saying the spell is Green + Black= still green
Because pulse is BOTH Green AND Black, it is not Non-Green.
This is where I no longer agree. He says in one breath that it is green, and then in the next breath, it is nongreen. Obviously it can't be both. Since we know 100% it is green, then there shouldn't really be anything else to discuss beyond that.
The heart of the issue, and the reason that people are arguing it both ways, is because that we interpret "nongreen" differently. When I see nongreen, to me that says "does not include green," while others see that as "is any color other than green." That is the fundamental point of confusion, and I suppose we will need ruling from Wizards before we can be 100% sure, unless there is precedent somewhere.
Deathtouch isn't really evasion. I feel evasion on a 6/6 creature is overrated to begin with anyway: what's there that can block a 6/6 and live, as opposed to blocking a 6/6 with deathtouch? Deathtouch is awesome on small recurring (or regenerating) creatures, or on creatures that can deal damage in some other way (read: basilisk collar on goblin sharpshooter).
Grave Titan would be awesome with Noxious ghoul, but since it's not a zombie itself you'd attack with a 4/4 instead of a 6/6. Still, recurring sweeper effects are awesome.
Perhaps they're afraid to build a linear deck for us: you know, the complaint with affinity... Personally I don't mind that they don't put all those cards in the same set/format, as it's nice to pick up different pieces from different sets if you're a casual deckbuilder. And face it, zombies wouldn't be top tier if all the zombie cards were in M11 and Grave Titan was a proper zombie titan...
Besides that, I'd like to hear from Wizards what the difference is between zombies and vampires, and why vampires is blacks premier race now. I loved Sengir Vampire back in the day, and I'm happy vampires get more support. I'm not so thrilled by a card like Bloodghast (or Reassembling Skeleton), a card with what's clearly a zombie mechanic (or perhaps a "nether" mechanic). Zombies come back from the grave, Vampires eat little girls. That's a pretty obvious distinction.
get grave titan into the gy then bring it back with rise from the grave then you get the -1/-1 from it nor you get it from the zombies the grave titan spits out. oh yea fixed too
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I can't tell you guys which country- that would ruin everything about my job.
Also that photo may or may not be me.
Trust me guys. I know lots of spy things.
I even said I am a spy so obviously I am a spy.
This is where I no longer agree. He says in one breath that it is green, and then in the next breath, it is nongreen. Obviously it can't be both. Since we know 100% it is green, then there shouldn't really be anything else to discuss beyond that.
You weren't not confused by his double negative. Never happens none of the time.
I remember the same argument made with Eyeblight's Ending VS a Changeling. Difference is that people took this to a more extreme measure because of a card that's going to rotate out of Standard in 3 months and the ruling is near-comparible to Doom Blade Vs. a multicolored creature with black.
His grammar is a little rough, but I'm still ok with this
This is where I no longer agree. He says in one breath that it is green, and then in the next breath, it is nongreen. Obviously it can't be both. Since we know 100% it is green, then there shouldn't really be anything else to discuss beyond that.
The heart of the issue, and the reason that people are arguing it both ways, is because that we interpret "nongreen" differently. When I see nongreen, to me that says "does not include green," while others see that as "is any color other than green." That is the fundamental point of confusion, and I suppose we will need ruling from Wizards before we can be 100% sure, unless there is precedent somewhere.
Actually he said "not nongreen" ergo green...his grammar is a bit off but yea
i toke the liberty to be the true nerd and called wotc helpline and asked about the ruling about gaea's revenge. he answered that they can not release the ruling untill the prerelease july 10th. meaning that any ruling about the card is only speculation. itll only be settled untill the prelease when wotc releases the rulings.
i toke the liberty to be the true nerd and called wotc helpline and asked about the ruling about gaea's revenge. he answered that they can not release the ruling untill the prerelease july 10th. meaning that any ruling about the card is only speculation. itll only be settled untill the prelease when wotc releases the rulings.
There is nothing to settle. This forum is filled with experienced magic veterans, many of whom are rules advisers, that have told you (in several threads) the correct ruling on the card. The fact that you refuse to believe them does not suggest that there is any real debate over how the card works.
i did not post that bc im still confused but to post help for possible solutions. all rulings are only speculations even from those experienced players. i might b new and make mistakes about the game, i just fight battles for the better good.
i came in here absolutely awestruck by the black titan, i expected a sac'ing titan, and was honestly confused about whether the red one is still the best or would it have to go to w/b recursion/generation. Until I saw the strength of Gaea's Revenge.
OMG wow.
As a true r/g player, note the name, this is by far one of the best color pie hate abilities i've ever seen. it is a tier below protection, but a tier above because green's prot looks like great sable stag. truly. this branches off to white and red also, making me very happy.
this is true hate (next to troll shroud, yay for my new pet wolf!).
green is going to boom this year round. undeniably.
pretty sure i still prefer pelakka wurm over gaea's revenge md, but it will def be in my sb next to plummet and combustion/manaleak. No lie, Gx decks will ravage this time around.
still cant believe they put khalni hydra and this new overrun in the same meta. now this. ty WOTC. =]
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~Intelligence is Bliss; Ignorance is Denial.
Skill is an ability that relates more so to the type of deck that's built and how said player pilots it. It also relates to the ability to assess the board and use the cards available to you in the most optimal way relative to each situation.
When a deck is filled with above par cards and every play is solid, there comes a diminishing need to "think" for the lack of wanting to use a better word.
i toke the liberty to be the true nerd and called wotc helpline and asked about the ruling about gaea's revenge. he answered that they can not release the ruling untill the prerelease july 10th. meaning that any ruling about the card is only speculation. itll only be settled untill the prelease when wotc releases the rulings.
Wizards does not determine how morphology works!
There is no change that could occur between now and July 10th that would make it true that something green could count as being nongreen. Nothing! The set of green things will always and invariably be the exact complement of the set of things that are not green, and hence, nongreen. Nongreenness is precisely the lack of greenness. Nongreen things are all and only those which fail to be green. What is green can't be nongreen.
(This is actually kind of fun.)
And, Wizards does not determine how semantics work.
If there is a blue circular disc, that the disc is blue does not make it untrue that the disc can be said to be circular! If I asked if the disc is circular, it can suffice to tell me that it is. You may appease me with just the statement that it is, or the word 'yes', and forgo any report about its blueness! Because the concern is if the disc is circular, or not.
IN. OTHER. WORDS., Gaea's Revenge can be the target of a spell only if that spell is green.
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Revenge can be killed with Maelstrom pulse or any card with a hint of green in it's mana cost bc if it's dual colored then its a green and black spell in the case if maelstrom pulse.
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There is no change that could occur between now and July 10th that would make it true that something green could count as being nongreen. Nothing! The set of green things will always and invariably be the exact complement of the set of things that are not green, and hence, nongreen. Nongreenness is precisely the lack of greenness. Nongreen things are all and only those which fail to be green. What is green can't be nongreen.
(This is actually kind of fun.)
...
IN. OTHER. WORDS., Gaea's Revenge can be the target of a spell only if that spell is green.
There is no change that could occur between now and July 10th that would make it true that something green could count as being nongreen. Nothing! The set of green things will always and invariably be the exact complement of the set of things that are not green, and hence, nongreen. Nongreenness is precisely the lack of greenness. Nongreen things are all and only those which fail to be green. What is green can't be nongreen.
(This is actually kind of fun.)
And, Wizards does not determine how semantics work.
If there is a blue circular disc, that the disc is blue does not make it untrue that the disc can be said to be circular! If I asked if the disc is circular, it can suffice to tell me that it is. You may appease me with just the statement that it is, or the word 'yes', and forgo any report about its blueness! Because the concern is if the disc is circular, or not.
IN. OTHER. WORDS., Gaea's Revenge can be the target of a spell only if that spell is green.
I love this arguement!!!! I am quoting you in my sig for sure!
Anyways, Grave Titan seems really nice. Gaea's Revenge, I think, is a sb card for control because they have such a hard time killing it, and it jumps out and murders a walker.
It's understandable blue control players would be shocked and in denial at the notion of this card, since their decks have been dominating multiple formats for an eternity yet they've curiously never once had to deal with any counter-hosers that weren't ineffectual, narrow CRAP.
Another problem i had with this, is the fact vampires already filled the role of midrange flyers ala Senger Vamp, skeletal vamp, morroi andso forth.
zombies where the swarming/bear/utility dudes and could be because of teh fact that zombie is a rather broad definition.
Vampires where the midrange flyers.
Demons where the big finishers.
Horrors could fill any of these roles.
Now vamps are both the midranger and the swarming dudes.
Fo shame wizards.
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—Volrath
I like it
A multi-colored card, like Pulse, is Green AND Black.
Putrid Leech is Green AND Black, thus why Doom Blade can not target it.
Because pulse is BOTH Green AND Black, it is not Non-Green.
Having black in it's CC does not make it NOT Green, it just makes it ALSO black.
You are wrong.
Pulse has G in it's casting cost, therefore pulse is Green. (It also happens to be black.)
A green spell can not be nongreen. (The spell is both green and black.)
Therefore, pulse can target revenge.
If a spell has G in the casting cost, it is green. If it has other symbols it will be those colors as well, but it does not stop being green, it just becomes other colors as well. Thrinax is 3 colors, one of which is black, so it can't be killed by doom blade, which says nonblack. It can, however, be killed by deathmark, which says green or white. It is not only green, but it is partly green, so it can be targeted by deathmark.
Umm you just said the same thing he did with different words...and called him wrong...your both saying the spell is Green + Black= still green
The problem is that Diz was confused. Observe:
Yes, this is correct
His grammar is a little rough, but I'm still ok with this
This is where I no longer agree. He says in one breath that it is green, and then in the next breath, it is nongreen. Obviously it can't be both. Since we know 100% it is green, then there shouldn't really be anything else to discuss beyond that.
The heart of the issue, and the reason that people are arguing it both ways, is because that we interpret "nongreen" differently. When I see nongreen, to me that says "does not include green," while others see that as "is any color other than green." That is the fundamental point of confusion, and I suppose we will need ruling from Wizards before we can be 100% sure, unless there is precedent somewhere.
get grave titan into the gy then bring it back with rise from the grave then you get the -1/-1 from it nor you get it from the zombies the grave titan spits out. oh yea fixed too
You weren't not confused by his double negative. Never happens none of the time.
But yeah, you guys said the same thing.
Seriously.
Actually he said "not nongreen" ergo green...his grammar is a bit off but yea
There is nothing to settle. This forum is filled with experienced magic veterans, many of whom are rules advisers, that have told you (in several threads) the correct ruling on the card. The fact that you refuse to believe them does not suggest that there is any real debate over how the card works.
i came in here absolutely awestruck by the black titan, i expected a sac'ing titan, and was honestly confused about whether the red one is still the best or would it have to go to w/b recursion/generation. Until I saw the strength of Gaea's Revenge.
OMG wow.
As a true r/g player, note the name, this is by far one of the best color pie hate abilities i've ever seen. it is a tier below protection, but a tier above because green's prot looks like great sable stag. truly. this branches off to white and red also, making me very happy.
this is true hate (next to troll shroud, yay for my new pet wolf!).
green is going to boom this year round. undeniably.
pretty sure i still prefer pelakka wurm over gaea's revenge md, but it will def be in my sb next to plummet and combustion/manaleak. No lie, Gx decks will ravage this time around.
still cant believe they put khalni hydra and this new overrun in the same meta. now this. ty WOTC. =]
Skill is an ability that relates more so to the type of deck that's built and how said player pilots it. It also relates to the ability to assess the board and use the cards available to you in the most optimal way relative to each situation.
When a deck is filled with above par cards and every play is solid, there comes a diminishing need to "think" for the lack of wanting to use a better word.
Wizards does not determine how morphology works!
There is no change that could occur between now and July 10th that would make it true that something green could count as being nongreen. Nothing! The set of green things will always and invariably be the exact complement of the set of things that are not green, and hence, nongreen. Nongreenness is precisely the lack of greenness. Nongreen things are all and only those which fail to be green. What is green can't be nongreen.
(This is actually kind of fun.)
And, Wizards does not determine how semantics work.
If there is a blue circular disc, that the disc is blue does not make it untrue that the disc can be said to be circular! If I asked if the disc is circular, it can suffice to tell me that it is. You may appease me with just the statement that it is, or the word 'yes', and forgo any report about its blueness! Because the concern is if the disc is circular, or not.
IN. OTHER. WORDS., Gaea's Revenge can be the target of a spell only if that spell is green.
Awesome avatar provided by Krashbot @ [Epic Graphics].
Anyway, love the art on Gaea's Revenge and Grave Titan.
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This argument gave me some hearty laughters
I love this arguement!!!! I am quoting you in my sig for sure!
Anyways, Grave Titan seems really nice. Gaea's Revenge, I think, is a sb card for control because they have such a hard time killing it, and it jumps out and murders a walker.
- whhhhhaaat?
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=] Yey.