I really like Staggershock. It's pretty cool. I want to get a set of 4 foily versions of this card to accentuate the incredible Swanland art. He did a great job with this card and Vengevine in particular.
Stagger shock art is awsome still would have send money to maro if he had advocated a cost of RRR for 3 mana and suspend but that would be too good. All power to the red army.
edit: still keeping my fingers crossed for something like Ghostfire to be printed SCREW YOU WW.
Staggershock is brutal. Finally red players don't need to invest two cards from their hand against Baneslayer Angel. It won't happen too often, but if you're in desperation mode it could be very effective in taking out big creatures. Combos good with Earthquake against big creatures, too.
?? What do you mean? I guess with rebound you can add a lightning bolt to kill Baneslayer, but you still need a second spell to kill anything with a toughness>2.
A thought: how does Staggershock work with Surreal Memoir? Can you choose which to play first during your next upkeep, meaning you can return Staggershock with Surreal Memoir one turn and play it, then during your next upkeep, you can rebound Staggershock first and Surreal Memoir second, returning Staggershock from the grave again?
Yes, exactly. Would only work if that was the only other instant in the yard. The memoir is a random instant. Could get burst, bolt, or comet storm as easily.
Not that any of those would be bad.
if bolt is not reprinted in m11 it gone in october and burn we blaze are too conditional sure 2 damage for 2 is good blaze is only good if they have a creature out other wise pointless as hell
Searing Blaze is almost always good.. and when it's good, it's awesome. That's the only card I can see being somewhat replaced by Staggershock, and that's only if the meta becomes less aggro (like, wouldn't put my money on it).
The things that make Burst Lightning better than Staggershock....
- When do you want to kill a 2-toughness creature that's a threat? In the first two turns. Staggershock can't do that.
- Want to kill a 4-tuffy? Nah.
- Have you ever top-decked burn FTW in a jam? Staggershock says 'No, you cannot win right now.'
I could be misjudging, but I don't see a place for it right now. I'd rather play Forked Bolt (against mana dorks, etc.).
Searing Blaze is almost always good.. and when it's good, it's awesome. That's the only card I can see being somewhat replaced by Staggershock, and that's only if the meta becomes less aggro (like, wouldn't put my money on it).
The things that make Burst Lightning better than Staggershock....
- When do you want to kill a 2-toughness creature that's a threat? In the first two turns. Staggershock can't do that.
- Want to kill a 4-tuffy? Nah.
- Have you ever top-decked burn FTW in a jam? Staggershock says 'No, you cannot win right now.'
I could be misjudging, but I don't see a place for it right now. I'd rather play Forked Bolt (against mana dorks, etc.).
Also, I believe Bolt was confirmed for M11.
I like this as a 2 of somewhere in rdw. I can see it a few ways
"Shock target opponent and kill that creature you didn't want to waste bolt on"
or "Deal 4 damage to target player"
both are good, also after playing this your opponent will be hesitant about playing a x/2 creature. Good against planeswalkers too. Versatiliy is what will make this card good much like the reason burst lightning is good. i could see playing two searing blaze two of this and 3 burst lightning
So a common situation could be that i can kill your two drop before you play it, don't play anything else with power 2 else it dies. Removal is good even if you can't kill it right as its played, and you can get a 2 for 1
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EllE:
Because she's the hero standard deserves, but not the one it needs right now... and so we'll chase her... because she can take it... because she's not a hero... she's a silent guardian
Yes it does there called x spell banefire, comet storm, fire ball
No one runs any of those spells because Earthquake is better, and that doesn't hit the air. Also, you're spending 6+ to kill that 5/5. That's a little nuts and way above the mana curve for a mono-red deck.
Especially since those cards with toughness 4+ which give you the actual problems seem to hit the board turn 3-4 due to mana ramping with a card like Noble Heirarch. Hell, even Knight of the Reliquary hits the board being a 4/4 nine times out of ten.
Even if you only have 3 mana open and don't draw into more, you can always send 2 damage at the stupid Heirarch and on your turn shoot the 2 at the Rhox War Monk or the Knight and Quake/Bolt/Burst for the remainder.
The card has definitely versatility, the question is whether or not it will see play in Standard. If anything it's a Quenchable Fire that's instant and can't be avoided by a deck playing blue. 4 mana for 6 at sorcery speed or 3 mana for 4 at instant speed. As far as right now I can't see it doing much, but I can definitely see it taking Quenchable Fire's slot post-rotation. Seeing as it not only hits the player, but it can hit creatures it seems like it'd be solid creature removal and slight card advantage. Has solid synergy with Surreal Memoir as well.
I play comet storm in my red deck. The burn from ROE will push my deck forward in many ways. Mono red pyromancers acention could be very viable now. Just have the rare red rebound to see. If it is also burn the whole format changes. I just hoe its not another treason effect. That would be sooooooo lame.
I like brood .Seems to give eldrazi a alternate win con. Could see people siding monument with eldrazi.
As for stagger i like. Not flame jav or char good but limited playable .
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It wouldn't put triggers on your Ascension and when you exile the initial copy with Rebound. However, once you have one in your GY you can put it online in one go. I'm pretty sure after it gets exiled through rebound you can't get a copy from that. Otherwise if you could you would just get infinite copies of the spell. Once you copy it and use Rebound, when copies exile they disappear.
Granted with Pyromancer's online one Stagger shock hits for 8 at your opponents head, since it'll trigger twice.
Since it says you "cast this card from exile" I assume that it will hit the graveyard, since normally it would say "spell" instead of "card".
Yeah, I've been wondering about Pyromancer's ascension and rebound. I think it has potential. Double counters is always good. If there's another decent rebound burn spell, it could work.
Searing Blaze is almost always good.. and when it's good, it's awesome. That's the only card I can see being somewhat replaced by Staggershock, and that's only if the meta becomes less aggro (like, wouldn't put my money on it).
The things that make Burst Lightning better than Staggershock....
- When do you want to kill a 2-toughness creature that's a threat? In the first two turns. Staggershock can't do that.
- Want to kill a 4-tuffy? Nah.
- Have you ever top-decked burn FTW in a jam? Staggershock says 'No, you cannot win right now.'
I could be misjudging, but I don't see a place for it right now. I'd rather play Forked Bolt (against mana dorks, etc.).
Also, I believe Bolt was confirmed for M11.
Well, I have been messing around with the card a bit, and I would look at it this way:
-Staggershot may cost 3 mana but it is still easily 4 damage distributed in 2 seperate damage over 2 turns. AKA, EOT: kill your opponents Knight of the White Orchard, UPKeep: kill your opponents Noble Hierarch (or Insert Mana dorks name here/white weenie) You just cleared their blocker and mana accel for next turn. Now your Hellspark/Goblin Guide are going to be swinging in for the throat.
-Answer to a 4 tuffy = Staggershock + Goblin Guide (or even Hellspark Elemental). That kills a Wall of Omens and nets you the two dmg you lost last turn because of the wall. Burst Lightning wouldn't be able to take out a Wall or 4 tuffy anything until atleast turn 5. (I say atleast because mana screw does happen every now and then.)
-I understand that being able to tap 5 and deal an instant 4 dmg to the face is nice, but the utility Staggershot offers is going to net you more wins then being able to top deck a deal 4 dmg card is.
While this isn't the best Jund card ever, let's not forget why Jund is so hot right now; every card is a 2 for 1. And In my opinion burn (RDW/RbDW) just got a great 2 for 1.
hello burst light for 4 is the same as a fireball for 4 so burst lighting
fire ball 1 red and 4 colorless = 4 damage but wait it's a bane slayer i do red and 5 = dead bane slayer damn sprouting thorax tokens 1red and 6 and 3 dead tokens. fire ball suck to do 3 or less
burst lighting
1red = 2 great bolt better
1red 4 = 4 damage an thats it so any thats say burst lighting is good wtfe
at least the new is 4 damage to 2 targets 2x2
m11 is not spoiled yet and that meas nothing is confirmed if it was then this site would have it on it the m11 bop was a mistake and it is not even for sure
Well, I have been messing around with the card a bit, and I would look at it this way:
-Staggershot may cost 3 mana but it is still easily 4 damage distributed in 2 seperate damage over 2 turns. AKA, EOT: kill your opponents Knight of the White Orchard, UPKeep: kill your opponents Noble Hierarch (or Insert Mana dorks name here/white weenie) You just cleared their blocker and mana accel for next turn. Now your Hellspark/Goblin Guide are going to be swinging in for the throat.
-Answer to a 4 tuffy = Staggershock + Goblin Guide (or even Hellspark Elemental). That kills a Wall of Omens and nets you the two dmg you lost last turn because of the wall. Burst Lightning wouldn't be able to take out a Wall or 4 tuffy anything until atleast turn 5. (I say atleast because mana screw does happen every now and then.)
-I understand that being able to tap 5 and deal an instant 4 dmg to the face is nice, but the utility Staggershot offers is going to net you more wins then being able to top deck a deal 4 dmg card is.
While this isn't the best Jund card ever, let's not forget why Jund is so hot right now; every card is a 2 for 1. And In my opinion burn (RDW/RbDW) just got a great 2 for 1.
uhh why did we bring Goblin Guide into this? Burst Lightning can kill a 4-toughness creature on turn 2 with a Goblin Guide... I don't see your point there. Also, you're assuming a White Weenie match up, which is the best possible application for Staggershock since all the creatures have 2 toughness. How about Naya or Bant? Killing a Noble Hierarch on turn three or four is a little late. It's ramped them and it doesn't matter by then. I don't see how Staggershock nets you more wins... it certainly won't be replacing Burst Lightning any time soon imo.
uhh why did we bring Goblin Guide into this? Burst Lightning can kill a 4-toughness creature on turn 2 with a Goblin Guide... I don't see your point there. Also, you're assuming a White Weenie match up, which is the best possible application for Staggershock since all the creatures have 2 toughness. How about Naya or Bant? Killing a Noble Hierarch on turn three or four is a little late. It's ramped them and it doesn't matter by then. I don't see how Staggershock nets you more wins... it certainly won't be replacing Burst Lightning any time soon imo.
Ok, before I start, I just want to mention that reading and comprehension skills will net you more wins in the future than any Burst Lightning or Staggershot combined. And I'm talking IRL too folks.
-"We" brought Goblin Guide into this because Burst Lightning can't kill a 4-toughness creature on turn 2 and deal 2 damage to your Opponents next creature/face on your next upkeep for free. Do you see my point now?
-While you assume that all I'm thinking of is the "White Weenie Ideal situation," try out Bloodbraid Elf while you are at it too. Or maybe even Putrid Leech in response to a pump. Or maybe, if you dare, consider a Ranger of Eos and the Scute Mob he grabbed and played. Burst Lightning has that covered right? Both the Scute Mob and the Ranger? They call that 2 for 1ing. And you can do it against more than White Weenie it turns out.
-How about Naya or Bant? Your not running Lightning bolt? what about Searing Blaze? If this is the RDW deck then you are atleast running Lightning Bolt. So go ahead and deal with the Noble Hierarch now, and the 2 damage you overkilled with it, Staggershot will make up for you later.
-I don't know how it came down to replacing a Burst Lightning, but it certainly does more damage and offers more utility then Burst Lightning. Well, that is unless your game starts with 5 Mana for each player.
i like these cards,green red eldrazi i think will see play at your local fnm's because of the brood warden.(kind of like a back up plan to a possible turn 3 hand of emrakul)
as for the debate about staggershock, i love this card the same reason why i love forked bolt,it can split the damage or be a all in spell, its a 2 for 1 spell,i cant wait to aim it at a putrid leech the first time and if they pay the two life a second time during my upkeep,"take four anyways or a red hideous end?" i cant wait to ask that question ,it will be awsome.
this card will see standard play you can even quote me on that and put it in your signature.
i cant wait to aim it at a putrid leech the first time and if they pay the two life a second time during my upkeep,"take four anyways or a red hideous end?" i cant wait to ask that question ,it will be awsome.
this card will see standard play you can even quote me on that and put it in your signature.
If I'm not mistaken, you can respond to the pump, which would be even more devastating, because they lose the 2 life, the Putrid Leech and 2 from Staggershock next upkeep.
uhh why did we bring Goblin Guide into this? Burst Lightning can kill a 4-toughness creature on turn 2 with a Goblin Guide... I don't see your point there. Also, you're assuming a White Weenie match up, which is the best possible application for Staggershock since all the creatures have 2 toughness. How about Naya or Bant? Killing a Noble Hierarch on turn three or four is a little late. It's ramped them and it doesn't matter by then. I don't see how Staggershock nets you more wins... it certainly won't be replacing Burst Lightning any time soon imo.
if you read what he said yes you kill a 4 tuff with burst but it stop there his point is for 3 mana 1 extra your instead of a 2 for 1 in your oppenents favor equals the playing field a goblin andstaggered for a sprouting thorax and a token or even direct damage .
btw is the point on RDW is blood to stop your oppenent from using his non basic stopping creature from being played? if so why put a card Searing Blaze in a deck design to slow or stop creature from being played?
If I'm not mistaken, you can respond to the pump, which would be even more devastating, because they lose the 2 life, the Putrid Leech and 2 from Staggershock next upkeep.
i was thinking more along the lines of my turn 3 their turn 2.
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edit: still keeping my fingers crossed for something like Ghostfire to be printed SCREW YOU WW.
?? What do you mean? I guess with rebound you can add a lightning bolt to kill Baneslayer, but you still need a second spell to kill anything with a toughness>2.
Not that any of those would be bad.
Searing Blaze is almost always good.. and when it's good, it's awesome. That's the only card I can see being somewhat replaced by Staggershock, and that's only if the meta becomes less aggro (like, wouldn't put my money on it).
The things that make Burst Lightning better than Staggershock....
- When do you want to kill a 2-toughness creature that's a threat? In the first two turns. Staggershock can't do that.
- Want to kill a 4-tuffy? Nah.
- Have you ever top-decked burn FTW in a jam? Staggershock says 'No, you cannot win right now.'
I could be misjudging, but I don't see a place for it right now. I'd rather play Forked Bolt (against mana dorks, etc.).
Also, I believe Bolt was confirmed for M11.
I like this as a 2 of somewhere in rdw. I can see it a few ways
"Shock target opponent and kill that creature you didn't want to waste bolt on"
or "Deal 4 damage to target player"
both are good, also after playing this your opponent will be hesitant about playing a x/2 creature. Good against planeswalkers too. Versatiliy is what will make this card good much like the reason burst lightning is good. i could see playing two searing blaze two of this and 3 burst lightning
Kills:
Birds of Paradise
So a common situation could be that i can kill your two drop before you play it, don't play anything else with power 2 else it dies. Removal is good even if you can't kill it right as its played, and you can get a 2 for 1
EllE:
Hoorah!
Protection From Everything
No one runs any of those spells because Earthquake is better, and that doesn't hit the air. Also, you're spending 6+ to kill that 5/5. That's a little nuts and way above the mana curve for a mono-red deck.
Especially since those cards with toughness 4+ which give you the actual problems seem to hit the board turn 3-4 due to mana ramping with a card like Noble Heirarch. Hell, even Knight of the Reliquary hits the board being a 4/4 nine times out of ten.
Even if you only have 3 mana open and don't draw into more, you can always send 2 damage at the stupid Heirarch and on your turn shoot the 2 at the Rhox War Monk or the Knight and Quake/Bolt/Burst for the remainder.
The card has definitely versatility, the question is whether or not it will see play in Standard. If anything it's a Quenchable Fire that's instant and can't be avoided by a deck playing blue. 4 mana for 6 at sorcery speed or 3 mana for 4 at instant speed. As far as right now I can't see it doing much, but I can definitely see it taking Quenchable Fire's slot post-rotation. Seeing as it not only hits the player, but it can hit creatures it seems like it'd be solid creature removal and slight card advantage. Has solid synergy with Surreal Memoir as well.
It's questionable and needs to be tested.
no you can't.
Font of Mythos
+
Howling Mine
+
Rebound
+
Pyros Acension
=
Awsome deck
WURDelver
[/MANA]MANA]R[/MANA]GTron
WDeath and Taxes
WSoul Sisters
RWG Pod Combo
URSplinter Twin
URStorm
RBurn
As for stagger i like. Not flame jav or char good but limited playable .
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It wouldn't put triggers on your Ascension and when you exile the initial copy with Rebound. However, once you have one in your GY you can put it online in one go. I'm pretty sure after it gets exiled through rebound you can't get a copy from that. Otherwise if you could you would just get infinite copies of the spell. Once you copy it and use Rebound, when copies exile they disappear.
Granted with Pyromancer's online one Stagger shock hits for 8 at your opponents head, since it'll trigger twice.
Since it says you "cast this card from exile" I assume that it will hit the graveyard, since normally it would say "spell" instead of "card".
Commander:
R Daretti, Scrap Savant
BR Olivia Voldaren
BRG Shattergang Brothers
GUR Riku of Two Reflections
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain
Well, I have been messing around with the card a bit, and I would look at it this way:
-Staggershot may cost 3 mana but it is still easily 4 damage distributed in 2 seperate damage over 2 turns. AKA, EOT: kill your opponents Knight of the White Orchard, UPKeep: kill your opponents Noble Hierarch (or Insert Mana dorks name here/white weenie) You just cleared their blocker and mana accel for next turn. Now your Hellspark/Goblin Guide are going to be swinging in for the throat.
-Answer to a 4 tuffy = Staggershock + Goblin Guide (or even Hellspark Elemental). That kills a Wall of Omens and nets you the two dmg you lost last turn because of the wall. Burst Lightning wouldn't be able to take out a Wall or 4 tuffy anything until atleast turn 5. (I say atleast because mana screw does happen every now and then.)
-I understand that being able to tap 5 and deal an instant 4 dmg to the face is nice, but the utility Staggershot offers is going to net you more wins then being able to top deck a deal 4 dmg card is.
While this isn't the best Jund card ever, let's not forget why Jund is so hot right now; every card is a 2 for 1. And In my opinion burn (RDW/RbDW) just got a great 2 for 1.
fire ball 1 red and 4 colorless = 4 damage but wait it's a bane slayer i do red and 5 = dead bane slayer damn sprouting thorax tokens 1red and 6 and 3 dead tokens. fire ball suck to do 3 or less
burst lighting
1red = 2 great bolt better
1red 4 = 4 damage an thats it so any thats say burst lighting is good wtfe
at least the new is 4 damage to 2 targets 2x2
m11 is not spoiled yet and that meas nothing is confirmed if it was then this site would have it on it the m11 bop was a mistake and it is not even for sure
uhh why did we bring Goblin Guide into this? Burst Lightning can kill a 4-toughness creature on turn 2 with a Goblin Guide... I don't see your point there. Also, you're assuming a White Weenie match up, which is the best possible application for Staggershock since all the creatures have 2 toughness. How about Naya or Bant? Killing a Noble Hierarch on turn three or four is a little late. It's ramped them and it doesn't matter by then. I don't see how Staggershock nets you more wins... it certainly won't be replacing Burst Lightning any time soon imo.
Ok, before I start, I just want to mention that reading and comprehension skills will net you more wins in the future than any Burst Lightning or Staggershot combined. And I'm talking IRL too folks.
-"We" brought Goblin Guide into this because Burst Lightning can't kill a 4-toughness creature on turn 2 and deal 2 damage to your Opponents next creature/face on your next upkeep for free. Do you see my point now?
-While you assume that all I'm thinking of is the "White Weenie Ideal situation," try out Bloodbraid Elf while you are at it too. Or maybe even Putrid Leech in response to a pump. Or maybe, if you dare, consider a Ranger of Eos and the Scute Mob he grabbed and played. Burst Lightning has that covered right? Both the Scute Mob and the Ranger? They call that 2 for 1ing. And you can do it against more than White Weenie it turns out.
-How about Naya or Bant? Your not running Lightning bolt? what about Searing Blaze? If this is the RDW deck then you are atleast running Lightning Bolt. So go ahead and deal with the Noble Hierarch now, and the 2 damage you overkilled with it, Staggershot will make up for you later.
-I don't know how it came down to replacing a Burst Lightning, but it certainly does more damage and offers more utility then Burst Lightning. Well, that is unless your game starts with 5 Mana for each player.
ghostfire is not coming atleast in this set
as for the debate about staggershock, i love this card the same reason why i love forked bolt,it can split the damage or be a all in spell, its a 2 for 1 spell,i cant wait to aim it at a putrid leech the first time and if they pay the two life a second time during my upkeep,"take four anyways or a red hideous end?" i cant wait to ask that question ,it will be awsome.
this card will see standard play you can even quote me on that and put it in your signature.
If I'm not mistaken, you can respond to the pump, which would be even more devastating, because they lose the 2 life, the Putrid Leech and 2 from Staggershock next upkeep.
if you read what he said yes you kill a 4 tuff with burst but it stop there his point is for 3 mana 1 extra your instead of a 2 for 1 in your oppenents favor equals the playing field a goblin andstaggered for a sprouting thorax and a token or even direct damage .
btw is the point on RDW is blood to stop your oppenent from using his non basic stopping creature from being played? if so why put a card Searing Blaze in a deck design to slow or stop creature from being played?
i was thinking more along the lines of my turn 3 their turn 2.