I certainly hope Levelup won't always be a mana cost sorcery mechanic. I'd like it better if it were triggered by other game effects. I'm skeptical of this... and at how piling more complicated mechanics are supposed to entice new players to start?
Having said that, the Eldrazi look amazing. Just spectacular artwork. These huge jellyfish beasts that hove in mid air... and looks like the fat ones are going to be common, too. Bring on the colorless fiesta.
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I certainly hope Levelup won't always be a mana cost sorcery mechanic. I'd like it better if it were triggered by other game effects. I'm skeptical of this... and at how piling more complicated mechanics are supposed to entice new players to start?
If the Levelers didn't have so many levels, I'd agree about there being alternative costs to the mana cost for leveling, but looking at the Chronologist for example, when you think of a cost like discarding cards, sacrificing permanents, you'd start building the deck around the Leveler. These don't seem like the kind of cards that are really meant for you to build the rest of your deck around.
As for the how complicated Leveling is? It isn't, really. It's actually very self-explanatory. Any new player would learn what a Planeswalker is and how it works, and would then be able to look at Levelers and understand it pretty fast.
The rules box for leveller guys is clunky and kinda goofy. The cards spoiled are decent enough, I guess, but I can't see any use for anything except maybe the vamp, and even that seems a stretch.
I love this thread, its Maelstrom Pulse won't see play again and jace and baneslayer are overrated. How many times do you guys wanna be wrong? Level up seems like its going to be very good, and I fully except totem armor to see a crap ton of play once Path/O-Ring/Terminate cycle.
Have a helicopter drop you off out front. Light your cigar with a small Indonesian boy holding a black lotus. Then bust out a craw wurm deck with no sleeves. Raw dog shuffle, loose terribly, flip the table, leave in a hovercraft.
I love this thread, its Maelstrom Pulse won't see play again and jace and baneslayer are overrated. How many times do you guys wanna be wrong? Level up seems like its going to be very good.
yea, cause every person that said level up doesn't look so great also said Jace and Bankslayer are overrated.
yea, cause every person that said level up doesn't look so great also said Jace and Bankslayer are overrated.
what really makes level up look that good to you?
level up is absolute garbage. yes somebody feel free to quote me on this in their sig. NONE OF THE LEVEL UP CARDS SHOWN TODAY WILL SEE COMPETITIVE PLAY OUTSIDE OF LIKE ROE ONLY CONSTRUCTED OR SOME GARBAGE.
theyre SORCERY speed for crying out loud. do you know how BAD that makes them? you level once... oh look a bolt good job waiting your mana during your main phase :/
i really hate people who refuse to call bad cards bad cus they just pray that some1 will find a deck where 1 of them is DECENT and then try to claim people wrong.
level up is absolute garbage. yes somebody feel free to quote me on this in their sig. NONE OF THE LEVEL UP CARDS SHOWN TODAY WILL SEE COMPETITIVE PLAY OUTSIDE OF LIKE ROE ONLY CONSTRUCTED OR SOME GARBAGE.
theyre SORCERY speed for crying out loud. do you know how BAD that makes them? you level once... oh look a bolt good job waiting your mana during your main phase :/
i really hate people who refuse to call bad cards bad cus they just pray that some1 will find a deck where 1 of them is DECENT and then try to claim people wrong.
why did u quote me for that rant? i agree with you, i was asking Avron why he thinks otherwise..
btw, as good as your bolt example is, i think letting the opp sink mana into leveling up to oh 6 or 7 counters, then a nice smother sounds more painful >:]
For a measly 1UUUUUUU That is some potent stuff on the Lighthouse guy, the mere fact you can get this done within: 2 Turns at best in standard after he is summoned, that is nothing to scoff at when the ratio of turns is 2:1 unless you kill this guy, who has the biggest target for you to hit, and since he is a 5 toughness creature by that point, not even Flame Javelin if it were still in standard could hit. If Big Game Hunter was still around, he couldn't peg it because he isn't 4 power. Giving this guy shroud is just nuts.
I respect the fact that the other two are lower levels and look easier to get but in fact cost more than the blue lighthouse guy.
Overgrown Battlement is good if you run lots of defender creatures and I believe we had an article not to long ago that talked of using defender creatures to great effect.
The first drone is MEH really, its a 5cc 3/3 DORK with no ability, but what it brings with it is what is the good stuff, the +3 mana bonus creatures.
Hyena Umbra is okay but since it's common it is forgivable at least.
That new Eldrazi is not to bad, an 8/8 for 8 that is a common! You could expect to see these in drafts I mean really that is amazing this big of a creature with annihilator is a COMMON!
New rebound spell is okay, it's combat tricks do make it a nasty combination with that new Hyena Umbra.
That mythic actually cost 9, 1 and 8u to fire off it's ability which I gotta say WotC really crapped out with this one. I mean seriously level 4-6 nothing, give me Flying, Shroud, Vigilance, hack I'd even take card draw for the extra mana investment. It just seems like way to much for a 3/5 that dies to removal.
Guul Draz Assassin: Seems unplayable in Constructed but bonkers in Limited. Constructed just doesn't want a 1-mana vanilla 1/1 or a 5-mana 2/2, even if you can delay the cost.
I'm sorry dude, but Vampire.dec DOES want a B vanilla that can turn dangerous, we want to keep your removal out of Nocturnus, Nighthawk and Highborn and this is the kind of card that can turn dangerous if removal is not wasted in it.
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I'm sorry dude, but Vampire.dec DOES want a B vanilla that can turn dangerous, we want to keep your removal out of Nocturnus, Nighthawk and Highborn and this is the kind of card that can turn dangerous if removal is not wasted in it.
it turns "dangerous" when you arnt playing anything else. for 5 mana you get a 2/2 that pays B and taps to give something -2/-2... honestly...is that playable to you?
Level up is being seen in the wrong light. You can't just evaluate these cards by how much mana is being invested ("You get a 2/3 flyer for 5" etc.). More often, the mana being used to level up will be excess mana that wouldn't normally be spent anyhow. This is why the chronologist is pretty good. Spending a spare U each turn is easy as long as you keep counterspell mana up.
A lot of people are shooting down Leveling without taking a lot of things into consideration. Probably 90% of the set hasn't been spoiled yet, so we don't even know if there will be spells or cards to assist levelers. Alara isn't too far from rotating out now, which will slow things down. People also are looking at the cards at face value without really thinking of the cards in the context of using them in an actual game.
ok i know this has probably been answered already but can you put 3 level counters on them at once? or can you only put 1 level counter on them per main phase?
Level up is being seen in the wrong light. You can't just evaluate these cards by how much mana is being invested ("You get a 2/3 flyer for 5" etc.). More often, the mana being used to level up will be excess mana that wouldn't normally be spent anyhow. This is why the chronologist is pretty good. Spending a spare U each turn is easy as long as you keep counterspell mana up.
...... i cannot disagree with you more. not only is it cost intensive (doesnt matter if u spend it over several turns... its still cost/time intensive. its also SORCERY SPEED. all your opponent has to do is wait til u build up all those activation until u pay for it 1 last time...
how often do turn 2 lotus cobras live? most the time not past turn 2.
how long do you think a 1/3 for 1U is gonna live when u have to pay like 9 mana for it to do anything at all. actually thats a bad example... cus he probably WILL live longer since hes not a threat until FOREVER and you can even punish your opponent for spending all that mana.
lets say you somehow DO manage to get him to his max level... you still have to wait til the END OF MY NEXT TURN for it to do something. how is that "pretty good"?
you must think master of the hunt is the best creature ever made. in magic christmas land he is a 3/3 for 4 that has infinite tokens.
certainly your deck contains spells or something. its never idea to just pay for leveling costs. instead of playing good cards.
ok i know this has probably been answered already but can you put 3 level counters on them at once? or can you only put 1 level counter on them per main phase?
you can put as many level counters as you can pay for on at one time, so long as it's during your main phase and there's nothing on the stack
ok i know this has probably been answered already but can you put 3 level counters on them at once? or can you only put 1 level counter on them per main phase?
you cant pay for them all at once.
you have to pay them like they are sorceries. which is 1 of the reason theyre garbage.
but you can pay the leveling cost as many times as you want as long as you have the mana in 1 turn as long as its during the main phase.
Have a helicopter drop you off out front. Light your cigar with a small Indonesian boy holding a black lotus. Then bust out a craw wurm deck with no sleeves. Raw dog shuffle, loose terribly, flip the table, leave in a hovercraft.
I really hate how a card doesn't start at level 1, but rather at level 0. There is going to be a lot of confusion at the prerelease when people are thinking that by putting a counter on, your creature is now level 2.
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Oh, what's that you say, Karn? You remove poison counters? You should tell that to Mr. Rosewater.
I really hate how a card doesn't start at level 1, but rather at level 0. There is going to be a lot of confusion at the prerelease when people are thinking that by putting a counter on, your creature is now level 2.
there shouldn't be, because it's very logical that a creature with 1 level counter is at level 1.
I really hate how a card doesn't start at level 1, but rather at level 0. There is going to be a lot of confusion at the prerelease when people are thinking that by putting a counter on, your creature is now level 2.
While I agree that starting at level 0 seems bad flavor-wise, I think your statement is exactly why they did it this way. Having a counter on a leveler (or a die on 1) is much more intuitive if that means it is level one. It could easily get confusing once you have 4 or 5 counters on something if people had to keep remembering that its level was the number of counters plus 1.
Also, I'm very curious as to the rules behind leveler. Like whether or not you actually add counters that you can interact with. While doing so would make Hexmage more useful, I think they'd want to stay away from having level counters and +1/+1 counters sharing the same space.
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Having said that, the Eldrazi look amazing. Just spectacular artwork. These huge jellyfish beasts that hove in mid air... and looks like the fat ones are going to be common, too. Bring on the colorless fiesta.
Currently Playing Casual:
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U/
If the Levelers didn't have so many levels, I'd agree about there being alternative costs to the mana cost for leveling, but looking at the Chronologist for example, when you think of a cost like discarding cards, sacrificing permanents, you'd start building the deck around the Leveler. These don't seem like the kind of cards that are really meant for you to build the rest of your deck around.
As for the how complicated Leveling is? It isn't, really. It's actually very self-explanatory. Any new player would learn what a Planeswalker is and how it works, and would then be able to look at Levelers and understand it pretty fast.
(Also known as Xenphire)
really, you can't see any potential in a flat out better than Vine Trellis re-make?
yea, cause every person that said level up doesn't look so great also said Jace and Bankslayer are overrated.
what really makes level up look that good to you?
level up is absolute garbage. yes somebody feel free to quote me on this in their sig. NONE OF THE LEVEL UP CARDS SHOWN TODAY WILL SEE COMPETITIVE PLAY OUTSIDE OF LIKE ROE ONLY CONSTRUCTED OR SOME GARBAGE.
theyre SORCERY speed for crying out loud. do you know how BAD that makes them? you level once... oh look a bolt good job waiting your mana during your main phase :/
i really hate people who refuse to call bad cards bad cus they just pray that some1 will find a deck where 1 of them is DECENT and then try to claim people wrong.
Thanks to Spiderboy4 of High~light Studios for the awesome sig.
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why did u quote me for that rant? i agree with you, i was asking Avron why he thinks otherwise..
btw, as good as your bolt example is, i think letting the opp sink mana into leveling up to oh 6 or 7 counters, then a nice smother sounds more painful >:]
That mythic actually cost 9, 1 and 8u to fire off it's ability which I gotta say WotC really crapped out with this one. I mean seriously level 4-6 nothing, give me Flying, Shroud, Vigilance, hack I'd even take card draw for the extra mana investment. It just seems like way to much for a 3/5 that dies to removal.
I'm sorry dude, but Vampire.dec DOES want a B vanilla that can turn dangerous, we want to keep your removal out of Nocturnus, Nighthawk and Highborn and this is the kind of card that can turn dangerous if removal is not wasted in it.
it turns "dangerous" when you arnt playing anything else. for 5 mana you get a 2/2 that pays B and taps to give something -2/-2... honestly...is that playable to you?
(Also known as Xenphire)
"excess mana you wouldn't normally spend" sounds like a bad curve, imo.
...... i cannot disagree with you more. not only is it cost intensive (doesnt matter if u spend it over several turns... its still cost/time intensive. its also SORCERY SPEED. all your opponent has to do is wait til u build up all those activation until u pay for it 1 last time...
how often do turn 2 lotus cobras live? most the time not past turn 2.
how long do you think a 1/3 for 1U is gonna live when u have to pay like 9 mana for it to do anything at all. actually thats a bad example... cus he probably WILL live longer since hes not a threat until FOREVER and you can even punish your opponent for spending all that mana.
lets say you somehow DO manage to get him to his max level... you still have to wait til the END OF MY NEXT TURN for it to do something. how is that "pretty good"?
you must think master of the hunt is the best creature ever made. in magic christmas land he is a 3/3 for 4 that has infinite tokens.
certainly your deck contains spells or something. its never idea to just pay for leveling costs. instead of playing good cards.
you can put as many level counters as you can pay for on at one time, so long as it's during your main phase and there's nothing on the stack
you cant pay for them all at once.
you have to pay them like they are sorceries. which is 1 of the reason theyre garbage.
but you can pay the leveling cost as many times as you want as long as you have the mana in 1 turn as long as its during the main phase.
I refuse to judge cards until there in standard. I've heard so many people say so many cards are bad and I usually disagree and I'm right alot.
there shouldn't be, because it's very logical that a creature with 1 level counter is at level 1.
While I agree that starting at level 0 seems bad flavor-wise, I think your statement is exactly why they did it this way. Having a counter on a leveler (or a die on 1) is much more intuitive if that means it is level one. It could easily get confusing once you have 4 or 5 counters on something if people had to keep remembering that its level was the number of counters plus 1.
Also, I'm very curious as to the rules behind leveler. Like whether or not you actually add counters that you can interact with. While doing so would make Hexmage more useful, I think they'd want to stay away from having level counters and +1/+1 counters sharing the same space.
Indianapolis Regionals 2009 (Standard)
Worldwake Gameday (Limited)
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