Yeah, the more I think about how good Delay is, the more I am coming to question whether it is at the rumoured mana cost (Moonlight bargain, anyone) or even real.
Hmm interesting cards. The green one draws my attention more, even though I can tell Delay is much better. Of course, I mostly tend to stay away from the counterspell part of blue.
As far as the green spell goes, Currently ther are 11 cards in standard with GGG in their cost, with at least two more to be added in FS (this and Nacatl War Band). Three more than that if Hybrids count. (I'm thinking they do. The rules would ask the g/x hybrid symbols 'Are you green?' and they would answer 'Yes'). Overall, there are 41 cards with 3 or more Green symbols in their casting cost (again, add the FS and hybrids in), and two more in Un-land. The most is Rushwood Elemental, with 5 Green in it's cost.... Not saying that it's a good card, but I think I'll have fun plaing it
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
# of Stuffy Doll decks thought up: 6 (:symr:, :symb:, :symgw:, :symwu:, :symg:/:symrg:, :symur:)
Making contraptions, wishing I could make them twice as efficiently.
I wouldn't bet against Hydro when he gets his info 99 times out of 100 its accurate. Unless he states that it may be off from the orb or something.
The mana cost may be wrong but the card itself isn't that insane.
Well, no. If the mana cost was 3U, it'd bascially be ertai's meddling. But at 1U, it's really the best new counterspell printed since FoW. At this stage in developement, I find it hard to believe R&D is giving us this counter. But that's pessimism for you.
I don't think it would because they aren't actually "green mana symbols." I'm sure that'll be released with the FAQ, though. ^^ -Jack
What about cards from (for example) Urza's block that say "one green mana" (For example, the man-lands). Will those be erratted to fit with the current scheme? What if a card was printed like that, then reprinted with G in core set (or something)?
So blue gets another great counter spell.....thanks wotc. For the same price as a Remand no less, so you can be completly counter locked outta the game now... great... Good job with that one.
if this was costed at 1G and only gained you one life for every green mana symbol then it would be very good. as it is, meh. too high cc for what it does
edit. the counter is just plain ridiculous. better than remand for some decks. combo likes remand, but this counter stalls better than remand (they can't replay it the same turn with mana).
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Khaldun
_____________
“Game over,” Lursen said. “Demon’s Horn.”
Demon’s Horn has a reputation in multiplayer games, Lursen said.“Usually if somebody in multiplayer plays a Demon’s Horn, we all just immediately attack that person, because he’s going to win,” Lursen said.
Yeah, the more I think about how good Delay is, the more I am coming to question whether it is at the rumoured mana cost (Moonlight bargain, anyone) or even real.
Wrong casting costs in the past were due to a combination of incomplete information and guesswork.
From all I am seeing, Hydro's information is fairly complete.
Have you noticed that most of these cards come with card numbers attached?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
News and spoiler contributor for GatheringMagic.com
i fear blue is geting a little to much power in this T2.
Funny, I was thinking the same thing about black since dissension. Realitive to commone interests, all the colors have gotten stronger since we last viewed them in ravnica. But ya, consenus agrees teferi + Delay is amazing. Its like phasing the spell away into nothing.
[card=Dismal Failure]"Two magi could trade spells all day and never crown a victor.
The real battle is not one of power but of will.
If your confidence breaks, so too shall you." —Venser[/card]
I'm hesitant to say Delay is as good as people are thinking. It's great in a lot of ways, but in the end, it is card disadvantage unless you pair it with something else (like a *** for creature, Teferi for spells). Delay isn't an automatic inclusion like Counterspell or Mana Leak/Rune Snag.
That counterspell is ridiculously good, if its in a deck with Teferi. Just counter the spell early, play your Teferi at their EOT, and when this tries to come into play it will be countered. Very nice.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
-Josh
Team Dorito Challenge
WA State Standard Champion 2007
Constructed Rating: 1935
I'm hesitant to say Delay is as good as people are thinking. It's great in a lot of ways, but in the end, it is card disadvantage unless you pair it with something else (like a *** for creature, Teferi for spells). Delay isn't an automatic inclusion like Counterspell or Mana Leak/Rune Snag.
But the speed is all you need.
Someone said this: In a sense, every counter that stops a spell from resolving without some further action or time, is answering the threat. Some counters merely provide a means to play another threat, or a similar threat.
Mana Leak says "Counter target spell. Its controller may pay 3 to copy that spell."
Remand says "Counter target spell. That spell's controller gets a copy of that card in hand. You draw a card."
Delay, you see, says this: "Counter target spell. In its controller's third upkeep from now, that player will play a copy of that spell."
What perhaps is underestimated, is just how much that extra time means, and also the potential for stealing cards.
I think half of every Blue deck is just delays. As Bound in Silence says, a battle put off forever is already won. Blue embraces that teaching. If those three turns give that stability the Blue decks can really abuse, it is a chance that doth redeem all losses that ever the Blue player has incurred (this game). [/Shakespeare]
Delay completely effaces things which aren't cards, too. It will be RFG, then cease to exist. That's Counterspell, for 1U.
Not to mention, if you Delay something which is useless to play at the beginning of the upkeep, it's also gone. Counters are such spells. Also, narrow cards are really abused by Delay. Say your opponent wants to remove your artifact or enchantment. Now if he has another removal spell in hand, does he use it? Then you can wait out and his delayed one will be played with no target.
But really, I think the main point about Delay is the... delay. Three turns is a lot. Two mana is very little. I will use this card.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Epic banner by Erasmus of æтђєг.
Awesome avatar provided by Krashbot @ [Epic Graphics].
Phosphorescent Feast is awful. Sure it has the potential to gain a ton of life, but why isn't your hand almost empty by the time you're playing it? And what heavy green deck cares enough about gaining life to tap down 5 mana to do it?
Anyone think Delay will be good enough to replace Remand when RAV-block cycles out? -Jack
I could see it replacing Remand before RAV cycles out. Seriously, in the late game, Remand just makes you pay twice for the cheaper spells. This has much more power in the late game. As for the cantrip... Well, you'll have 3 draw phases before this resolves.
I'd probably run both, myself. But I'm a terrible player.
I really don't understand why everyone keeps saying "OMG I CAN'T BELIEVE THEY WOULD PRINT THIS!!!!!!11eleven". The game needs a new counter at this power-level because Counterspell will rotate out of Extended in a matter of months. With such a huge cardpool, that's a scary thought.
EDH/Commander is a social format, right? So why don't people use their social skills to discuss what they like and don't like, instead of adopting a list with 60+ banned cards?
I really don't understand why everyone keeps saying "OMG I CAN'T BELIEVE THEY WOULD PRINT THIS!!!!!!11eleven". The game needs a new counter at this power-level because Counterspell will rotate out of Extended in a matter of months. With such a huge cardpool, that's a scary thought.
If by "a matter of months" you mean about 18 of them, yes. Extended doens't rotate until the block after Lorwyn.
EDH/Commander is a social format, right? So why don't people use their social skills to discuss what they like and don't like, instead of adopting a list with 60+ banned cards?
(assuming the rumoured info is real and correct..)
I really don't like cards that make no sense flavourwise. If Magic is two mages fighting with spells and creatures, what's happening when one mage casts a spell that makes him healthier, depending on the count of green mana symbols on spells he currently has memorized? It's kind of like cards that reference "the legend rule" or "the stack". To me, that's just abusing the rules of the game a couple steps too far.
In terms of power level, also not impressed. Tapping out main phase to get a bunch of life? Meh... been there, done that. Also, it obviously only works in monogreen, which would probably rather drop a Silvos or something.
Delay would be a good card if printed like that. As pointed out above, it would be a little less powerful than Remand, but effective in a few more situations (such as late game). I think it would get played.
The mana cost may be wrong but the card itself isn't that insane.
Feel free to bid on my cards here!
As far as the green spell goes, Currently ther are 11 cards in standard with GGG in their cost, with at least two more to be added in FS (this and Nacatl War Band). Three more than that if Hybrids count. (I'm thinking they do. The rules would ask the g/x hybrid symbols 'Are you green?' and they would answer 'Yes'). Overall, there are 41 cards with 3 or more Green symbols in their casting cost (again, add the FS and hybrids in), and two more in Un-land. The most is Rushwood Elemental, with 5 Green in it's cost.... Not saying that it's a good card, but I think I'll have fun plaing it
Making contraptions, wishing I could make them twice as efficiently.
Well, no. If the mana cost was 3U, it'd bascially be ertai's meddling. But at 1U, it's really the best new counterspell printed since FoW. At this stage in developement, I find it hard to believe R&D is giving us this counter. But that's pessimism for you.
What about cards from (for example) Urza's block that say "one green mana" (For example, the man-lands). Will those be erratted to fit with the current scheme? What if a card was printed like that, then reprinted with G in core set (or something)?
edit. the counter is just plain ridiculous. better than remand for some decks. combo likes remand, but this counter stalls better than remand (they can't replay it the same turn with mana).
_____________
“Game over,” Lursen said. “Demon’s Horn.”
Demon’s Horn has a reputation in multiplayer games, Lursen said.“Usually if somebody in multiplayer plays a Demon’s Horn, we all just immediately attack that person, because he’s going to win,” Lursen said.
Wrong casting costs in the past were due to a combination of incomplete information and guesswork.
From all I am seeing, Hydro's information is fairly complete.
Have you noticed that most of these cards come with card numbers attached?
Twitter
I hope it right, and he is rarely off. This AND Remand AND Teferi in the same standard? *Drool*
Peak rating 1832
Brain Freeze is the coolest card ever printed.
That's true. But I hate to get too excited. This card is simply the nuts.
It kills combo. It's great against control (except of course they are going to have them too). It's better than Mana leak or Rune Snag late game.
Then there are the little things. Like it gives you 3 turns to put out Meddling Mage naming the card instead of the one (or none) you get with Remand.
It kills any spell with X in the cost. (Other than Demonfre)
And the aforementioned interaction on several levels with Teferi.
The list goes on. It's jsut so hard to believe WoTC let this one past.
Oh well, if it's real, it's a foil playset for me.
I'm gonna feel guilty when I run 4 now, especially with my Remands.
Awesome avatar provided by Krashbot @ [Epic Graphics].
Funny, I was thinking the same thing about black since dissension. Realitive to commone interests, all the colors have gotten stronger since we last viewed them in ravnica. But ya, consenus agrees teferi + Delay is amazing. Its like phasing the spell away into nothing.
:symr::symu: Reality Bites
:symr::symu: Delver Cyclops
:symr::symu: Niv Control EDH
:symg::symw: Sigarda EDH
The real battle is not one of power but of will.
If your confidence breaks, so too shall you."
—Venser[/card]
Delay on a creature against any type of agro deck is pretty much a hard counter.
Team Dorito Challenge
WA State Standard Champion 2007
Constructed Rating: 1935
But the speed is all you need.
Someone said this: In a sense, every counter that stops a spell from resolving without some further action or time, is answering the threat. Some counters merely provide a means to play another threat, or a similar threat.
Mana Leak says "Counter target spell. Its controller may pay 3 to copy that spell."
Remand says "Counter target spell. That spell's controller gets a copy of that card in hand. You draw a card."
Delay, you see, says this: "Counter target spell. In its controller's third upkeep from now, that player will play a copy of that spell."
What perhaps is underestimated, is just how much that extra time means, and also the potential for stealing cards.
I think half of every Blue deck is just delays. As Bound in Silence says, a battle put off forever is already won. Blue embraces that teaching. If those three turns give that stability the Blue decks can really abuse, it is a chance that doth redeem all losses that ever the Blue player has incurred (this game). [/Shakespeare]
Delay completely effaces things which aren't cards, too. It will be RFG, then cease to exist. That's Counterspell, for 1U.
Not to mention, if you Delay something which is useless to play at the beginning of the upkeep, it's also gone. Counters are such spells. Also, narrow cards are really abused by Delay. Say your opponent wants to remove your artifact or enchantment. Now if he has another removal spell in hand, does he use it? Then you can wait out and his delayed one will be played with no target.
But really, I think the main point about Delay is the... delay. Three turns is a lot. Two mana is very little. I will use this card.
Awesome avatar provided by Krashbot @ [Epic Graphics].
I have playsets of Cancel waiting to trade for your delays.
I can think of many spell I'd rather have removed from the game for 3 turns than in my opponent's graveyard. And Mana leak is not a hard counter.
I could see it replacing Remand before RAV cycles out. Seriously, in the late game, Remand just makes you pay twice for the cheaper spells. This has much more power in the late game. As for the cantrip... Well, you'll have 3 draw phases before this resolves.
I'd probably run both, myself. But I'm a terrible player.
If by "a matter of months" you mean about 18 of them, yes. Extended doens't rotate until the block after Lorwyn.
I really don't like cards that make no sense flavourwise. If Magic is two mages fighting with spells and creatures, what's happening when one mage casts a spell that makes him healthier, depending on the count of green mana symbols on spells he currently has memorized? It's kind of like cards that reference "the legend rule" or "the stack". To me, that's just abusing the rules of the game a couple steps too far.
In terms of power level, also not impressed. Tapping out main phase to get a bunch of life? Meh... been there, done that. Also, it obviously only works in monogreen, which would probably rather drop a Silvos or something.
Delay would be a good card if printed like that. As pointed out above, it would be a little less powerful than Remand, but effective in a few more situations (such as late game). I think it would get played.
.