I've always been a fan of control, and these colors are two of my favorites. MWC has a Primer thread, and it might be a better deck all around, but I want to see where we can get with these colors. The best part about this deck is that it has a lot of options to completely shut down aggro, from *** board clears to Ghostly Prison to Magus of the Tabernacle to Spell Snare, if you see a lot of aggro you SHOULD be able to build a control deck with these colors to consistently beat it.
Prominent Cards
Board Control Wrath of God Staple Board Control. With your win conditions getting around it, I see no reason not to run 4 main. Day of Judgement Worse than ***, but if aggro is as prevalent as people say it is it might be worth running alongside wrath. I doubt it though. Oblivion Ring Slow, but deals with a lot. Very good. Journey to Nowhere Single target creature hate is OK, but not great because of ***/Day. Path to Exile If only STP were legal... oh well. Next best thing IMO. Condemn Alternate to PtE, but doesn't exile so it's worse. Venser, Shaper Savant Decent in certain matchups.
Counter Control Cryptic Command Top-dog counterspell. The UUU makes it difficult to cast but with the proper manabase it's definitely playable. Cancel Hinder I would run Hinder over Cancel, but I think these cards are kind of slow. Glen Elandra Archmage Decent in the control mirror and vs combo. SB card. Spell Snare Good vs aggro. Maindeck if you see a lot of aggro, SB otherwise. Rune Snag Mana Leak Both of these are great in the aggro matchup Remand Underrated in it's potential, the cantrip effect is amazing and often in this deck you just need to stall. Spell Pierce Popular choice lately and I think it's very good in the current modern environment. One of your only answers to combo that goes off on turn 3.
Aggro Hate Wall of Omens Debating whether or not to main this, it's great vs aggro and nets you a card, but lackluster in the control mirror and vs combo. Ghostly Prison Magus of the Tabernacle Clashes with Sacred Mesa, but alright if you use a different win condition. Vendilion Clique Putting this here but it's good vs control and combo too, quick beater and late game can cyle cards for you Kitchen Finks 2 blocks and 4 life for 3 mana, vs aggro can net you upwards of 10 life over the course of 2 turns. Keeps you alive long enough to find answers. Plumeveil Against aggro this is basically a removal spell. But then, there are cheaper removal options.
Hosing Control and Combo Meddling Mage Maindeck at least 1 to gifts for. I love this card, but it requires knowledge of the decks you're playing against, and might be better in the SB. Ghost Quarter/Crucible of Worlds Combo. Easy to obtain thanks to Gifts Ungiven, works great vs 5CC and 12post. Sideboard material Bribery I'll be playing your turn 5 Emrakul, thanks! Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir Great in the mirror and potential win condition. Iona, Shield of Emeria Most of the time if this creature hits the board you've already won. Unless you're running tron you won't play this card. Aven Mindcensor Absolutely playable in this format, so many decks revolve around tutoring. This card helps shut down 12post by hosing their land tutors just as well as aggro by giving you an instant speed blocker that can cause their fetch lands to self destruct. Angel's Grace Board material vs combo to save you on the turn they go off and allow you to recover during your next turn. Mindbreak Trap Epic tech vs hivemind and storm. Also good vs any combo decks that play a lot of spells on the turn they go off (eggs?) Spreading Seas Seeing as 12post is probably the most popular deck right now, this card will probably be in a lot of sideboards.
Card Advantage Gifts Ungiven Great card, but requires a deck with a lot of targets. Something to build around if you're going to run it. Ponder If only it was instant... still it's decent. Preordain Ponder is better IMO. Solemn Simulacrum Yes, please. Emeria, the Sky Ruin Will we ever see 7 plains? With Solemn, maybe. You could potentially Gifts Ungiven for Plains. If you don't run Cryptic Command, it's likely that you could put 12-14 plains in your deck, in which case this card would be worth it. I would rather have CC, personally. Thirst for Knowledge No Artifacts -> just run Ponder/Preordain. Instant speed is nice though... Jace's Ingenuity Slow, but instant speed means this card could definitely be good in this deck. Compulsive Research Possibly worth running, as control decks generally have an overabundance of land. Reveillark Even without a combo enabler this is a good recursion card. Mystical Teachings Honorable mention because there are UW/b decks that revolve around this card. It can find answers for basically any situation. Like Gifts, requires a deck to be built in such a way that can really abuse it, but if you can pull it of it can be really good.
Win Conditions Sacred Mesa Win with a flock of pegasus. Enough said. One of the best cards to rebuild with after a Wrath. Baneslayer Angel Sick beater, low casting cost. Elspeth, Knight Errant/Elspeth Tirell Sacred Mesa works great with these, I would run at least one of them. Venser, the Sojourner Gives a creature protection from wrath of god. Combos with Wall of Omens, lets you change Meddling Mage, and oh, you like to cast spells right? You only need 1 thanks to Gifts. Gideon Jura Do I need to explain this? Celestial Colonnade Also gets around Wrath. Consecrated Sphinx Awesome beater with epic card advantage. Staple. Sword of Fire and Ice Along with Light/Shadow this card really brings the pain. Put it on your man-lands after you remove their blockers and see the card advantage pile up in your favor. With man-lands this avoids wrath, too. Sun Titan This can be good, but usually has no targets in this deck.
you forgot mana leak/rune snag, and thirst for knowledge.
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Seems like Reveillark should be in here, considering it can bring back every single one of your creatures. I'm actually drifting towards a WUB or GWU 'Lark build myself for Modern...has a certain degree of inevitability to it and can be transformed to handle most metas.
You also forgot Consecrated Sphinx, which if not a win-con, gets one pretty quick. While maybe not the best, its explosiveness onto the scene instandard is worth testing in Modern.
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candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
~~~~~
UW and UW/b control ranked well in the recent dailies and have been updated to the OP, along with some of the key cards those decks used like Teferi. Looks like this deck is definitely playable in the current meta!
I definitely like the look of the new Fae-based list. My only question is this: as a control deck, how are you generating raw card advantage? Having tons of answers is great, but you need ways to restock your hand and dig for gas.
Without Jace, I've found the best solution to this problem to be Blue Sun's Zenith. Instant speed allows you to avoid tapping out, the shuffle effect makes it reusable (and prevents decking) and lets you get away with fewer copies, and the scalability means that it is almost never a bad topdeck. It may not be capable of digging you out of holes or being a massive toolbox like Jace was, but I think it's the best option for Blue-based control right now.
I would think Mage would be a sideboard card, so you should know what needs to be called out, not rely on Probe to figure it out in game 1. Vendilion Clique also does something similar and doubles as an Instant-speed beatstick.
I can see Ghostly Prison's utility in shutting down both aggro and Twin strategies, but the rest of your suggestions seem rather lackluster. in particular, I would rather have Mindbreak Trap as opposed to other Storm-killers, since it serves double duty in getting around Emrakul.
It ended up going 3-1, beating Infect OTK, Pyro Ascension and Runeflare Combo on the way, and only narrowly losing to RDW. Not the best set of decks to test against, sure, but I can give an indication of how the deck ran;
-Baneslayers were definitely not what I was expecting, and unfortunately, they seem a little bit slow and clunky. Even against the aggro deck, tapping out turn 5 isn't what I wanted to be doing. I'm not even sure this deck needs a big beater, as Clique and Finks did the job the vast majority of the time. I'm currently considering three replacements: Venser, Shaper Savant; Aven Mindcensor; and Seht's Tiger. Each of these is a Flash threat that impacts the board pretty well, Aven blocking off the library, Venser bouncing a relevant threat or Time Walking an opponent, and Tiger preventing vital life loss against the aggro decks.
-Repeal was a pretty good card throughout. Answers anything on the board, and cantrips too. I prefer this over Oblivion Ring because it's a little bit faster, albeit getting very expensive if they drop something huge down.
-MVP from the sideboard was definitely Kitchen Finks. He doesn't just give you a bit of extra live vs. the Aggro decks, he also represents a viable threat against the combo decks as well. Not to mention flashing them in with teferi down is pretty good beats
Great input! I agree that Baneslayers feel slow. I've seen this deck win off of Cliques, Mindcensors and Man-lands alone, with a couple of swords (light/shadow and fire/ice) to really lay the smack down. Repeal is an interesting choice. I feel like Venser might be a little bit better in general.
The mainboard I've been looking at testing for the next few weeks. More Fae-based, but I like it this way. Feels very proactive and like I can do something in the early turns.
I'm also definitely looking to find room for Snapcaster Mage on release day. This deck feels powerful, and Snapcaster Mage is such a huge source of potential card advantage.
The sideboard is also in the works. I'll likely come up with something in testing.
i also like this deck for modern, very good control , agresive against agro whit *** and control combo decks, but we have to take out those pre ordain now cuz WoC banned those, anyway try using serum visions i think is one of the best replacements for preordain atm.
I would rather run Think Twice than Ponder. Being able to represent Spellstutter/Rune Snag/Mana Leak on turn 2 and potentially cantrip is bonkers and arguably better than what Ponder can give you at times.
I would rather run Think Twice than Ponder. Being able to represent Spellstutter/Rune Snag/Mana Leak on turn 2 and potentially cantrip is bonkers and arguably better than what Ponder can give you at times.
well ponder is banned anyways, but think twice is tons better. Sure you don't look through your library, but whenever you have 3 mana left over at your opponents end step its nice.
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Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
Hmm..not too many lists running Venser, the Sojourner yet. Seems like with Snapcaster Mage and the faeries that his bounce ability could be quite potent. Add in Meddling Mage or Venser, Shaper Savant from the SB and you've got a nice effect too. Anything with persist also benefits from Venser's bounce.
Hmm..not too many lists running Venser, the Sojourner yet. Seems like with Snapcaster Mage and the faeries that his bounce ability could be quite potent. Add in Meddling Mage or Venser, Shaper Savant from the SB and you've got a nice effect too. Anything with persist also benefits from Venser's bounce.
Thats because venser is pretty meh. Elpseth and gideon are tons better.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
My bad, I had forgotten about Ponder for some reason. I'm still in Standard brewing mode, it seems.
Anyway, Venser is indeed rather subpar. I'm honestly not even sure if Snapcaster makes his way into my lists. I wouldn't run him as more than a 3-of, to be sure. You really don't want those in your opening hand.
Anyway, Venser is indeed rather subpar. I'm honestly not even sure if Snapcaster makes his way into my lists. I wouldn't run him as more than a 3-of, to be sure. You really don't want those in your opening hand.
I suppose so. I don't know, when you've got so many good blinkable effects, he seems more beneficial than he gets credit for, at least as a potential one-off. Bouncing a Clique every turn is a nice effect. Anyway, perhaps he's better in a more aggro-control based shell than in control.
Bouncing either Clique is just bad. Mistbind doesn't give you actual utility, and Vendilion is still letting them dig more than you. Venser does nothing for the Fae version of the deck.
Bouncing either Clique is just bad. Mistbind doesn't give you actual utility, and Vendilion is still letting them dig more than you. Venser does nothing for the Fae version of the deck.
I wouldn't say it's bad -- you're still filtering their hand which is nice against combo -- but it's not optimal, I agree. Yep, Venser is better in a different build.
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Introduction
Prominent Cards
Board Control
Wrath of God Staple Board Control. With your win conditions getting around it, I see no reason not to run 4 main.
Day of Judgement Worse than ***, but if aggro is as prevalent as people say it is it might be worth running alongside wrath. I doubt it though.
Oblivion Ring Slow, but deals with a lot. Very good.
Journey to Nowhere Single target creature hate is OK, but not great because of ***/Day.
Path to Exile If only STP were legal... oh well. Next best thing IMO.
Condemn Alternate to PtE, but doesn't exile so it's worse.
Venser, Shaper Savant Decent in certain matchups.
Counter Control
Cryptic Command Top-dog counterspell. The UUU makes it difficult to cast but with the proper manabase it's definitely playable.
Cancel
Hinder I would run Hinder over Cancel, but I think these cards are kind of slow.
Glen Elandra Archmage Decent in the control mirror and vs combo. SB card.
Spell Snare Good vs aggro. Maindeck if you see a lot of aggro, SB otherwise.
Rune Snag
Mana Leak Both of these are great in the aggro matchup
Remand Underrated in it's potential, the cantrip effect is amazing and often in this deck you just need to stall.
Spell Pierce Popular choice lately and I think it's very good in the current modern environment. One of your only answers to combo that goes off on turn 3.
Aggro Hate
Wall of Omens Debating whether or not to main this, it's great vs aggro and nets you a card, but lackluster in the control mirror and vs combo.
Ghostly Prison
Magus of the Tabernacle Clashes with Sacred Mesa, but alright if you use a different win condition.
Vendilion Clique Putting this here but it's good vs control and combo too, quick beater and late game can cyle cards for you
Kitchen Finks 2 blocks and 4 life for 3 mana, vs aggro can net you upwards of 10 life over the course of 2 turns. Keeps you alive long enough to find answers.
Plumeveil Against aggro this is basically a removal spell. But then, there are cheaper removal options.
Hosing Control and Combo
Meddling Mage Maindeck at least 1 to gifts for. I love this card, but it requires knowledge of the decks you're playing against, and might be better in the SB.
Ghost Quarter/Crucible of Worlds Combo. Easy to obtain thanks to Gifts Ungiven, works great vs 5CC and 12post. Sideboard material
Bribery I'll be playing your turn 5 Emrakul, thanks!
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir Great in the mirror and potential win condition.
Iona, Shield of Emeria Most of the time if this creature hits the board you've already won. Unless you're running tron you won't play this card.
Aven Mindcensor Absolutely playable in this format, so many decks revolve around tutoring. This card helps shut down 12post by hosing their land tutors just as well as aggro by giving you an instant speed blocker that can cause their fetch lands to self destruct.
Angel's Grace Board material vs combo to save you on the turn they go off and allow you to recover during your next turn.
Mindbreak Trap Epic tech vs hivemind and storm. Also good vs any combo decks that play a lot of spells on the turn they go off (eggs?)
Spreading Seas Seeing as 12post is probably the most popular deck right now, this card will probably be in a lot of sideboards.
Card Advantage
Gifts Ungiven Great card, but requires a deck with a lot of targets. Something to build around if you're going to run it.
Ponder If only it was instant... still it's decent.
Preordain Ponder is better IMO.
Solemn Simulacrum Yes, please.
Emeria, the Sky Ruin Will we ever see 7 plains? With Solemn, maybe. You could potentially Gifts Ungiven for Plains. If you don't run Cryptic Command, it's likely that you could put 12-14 plains in your deck, in which case this card would be worth it. I would rather have CC, personally.
Thirst for Knowledge No Artifacts -> just run Ponder/Preordain. Instant speed is nice though...
Jace's Ingenuity Slow, but instant speed means this card could definitely be good in this deck.
Compulsive Research Possibly worth running, as control decks generally have an overabundance of land.
Reveillark Even without a combo enabler this is a good recursion card.
Mystical Teachings Honorable mention because there are UW/b decks that revolve around this card. It can find answers for basically any situation. Like Gifts, requires a deck to be built in such a way that can really abuse it, but if you can pull it of it can be really good.
Win Conditions
Sacred Mesa Win with a flock of pegasus. Enough said. One of the best cards to rebuild with after a Wrath.
Baneslayer Angel Sick beater, low casting cost.
Elspeth, Knight Errant/Elspeth Tirell Sacred Mesa works great with these, I would run at least one of them.
Venser, the Sojourner Gives a creature protection from wrath of god. Combos with Wall of Omens, lets you change Meddling Mage, and oh, you like to cast spells right? You only need 1 thanks to Gifts.
Gideon Jura Do I need to explain this?
Celestial Colonnade Also gets around Wrath.
Consecrated Sphinx Awesome beater with epic card advantage. Staple.
Sword of Fire and Ice Along with Light/Shadow this card really brings the pain. Put it on your man-lands after you remove their blockers and see the card advantage pile up in your favor. With man-lands this avoids wrath, too.
Sun Titan This can be good, but usually has no targets in this deck.
If anybody has cards that I missed, let me know.
First attempt at making a deck:
4 Solemn Simulacrum
4 Wall of Omens
1 Glen Elandra Archmage
1 Meddling Mage
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Consecrated Sphinx
Instants
4 Gifts Ungiven
3 Path to Exile
Sorceries
4 Wrath of God
4 Preordain
Enchantments
4 Oblivion Ring
3 Sacred Mesa
1 Ghostly Prison
1 Crucible of Worlds
Planeswalkers
1 Gideon Jura
1 Venser, the Sojourner
Lands
4 Hallowed Fountain
3 Celestial Colonnade
2 Arid Mesa
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Ghost Quarter
6 Plains
6 Island
3 Ghost Quarter
2 Meddling Mage
3 Ghostly Prison
1 Glen Elandra Archmage
4 Spell Snare
2 Magus of the Tabernacle
Worth mentioning are the decks that have done well in the first few MTGO dailies:
bombwizzi702 8-25-11 (4-0, Rank 3rd overall)
4 Adarkar Wastes
4 Celestial Colonnade
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Island
4 Mystic Gate
4 Plains
2 Tectonic Edge
Creatures
3 Baneslayer Angel
3 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
2 Vendilion Clique
3 Cryptic Command
4 Mana Leak
2 Oblivion Ring
3 Path to Exile
4 Preordain
4 Remand
3 Spell Snare
3 Wrath of God
3 Angel's Grace
3 Disenchant
3 Kitchen Finks
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Path to Exile
3 Tormod's Crypt
1 Wrath of God
U/W/b Variant. Chihoi 8-25-11 (3-1 overall)
Note: Black splash is minimal, 6 black cards + Esper Charm in the main deck
2 Celestial Colonnade
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Hallowed Fountain
3 Island
4 Marsh Flats
2 Misty Rainforest
3 Mystic Gate
2 Plains
2 Sunken Ruins
1 Swamp
1 Watery Grave
Creatures
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Grave Titan
3 Kitchen Finks
2 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
1 Consume the Meek
4 Cryptic Command
1 Day of Judgment
4 Esper Charm
2 Go for the Throat
3 Mystical Teachings
2 Path to Exile
4 Rune Snag
1 Smother
3 Spell Snare
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Wrath of God
1 Consume the Meek
2 Deathmark
1 Divine Offering
1 Extirpate
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Mindbreak Trap
1 Negate
1 Pulse of the Fields
3 Spreading Seas
3 Thoughtseize
New UW Control deck stomping the MTGO daily!
L0rd 8-27-11 (3-1)
1 Arid Mesa
4 Celestial Colonnade
2 Ghost Quarter
4 Island
4 Mutavault
4 Mystic Gate
2 Nimbus Maze
2 Plains
2 Scalding Tarn
Creatures
4 Spellstutter Sprite
3 Vendilion Clique
4 Cryptic Command
1 Day of Judgment
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4 Mana Leak
1 Oblivion Ring
4 Path to Exile
4 Preordain
4 Rune Snag
3 Spell Snare
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Day of Judgment
2 Disenchant
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
3 Kataki, War's Wage
4 Kor Firewalker
3 Mindbreak Trap
aspina 8/30/2011 (3-1)
3 Ghost Quarter
4 Glacial Fortress
9 Island
4 Plains
4 Seachrome Coast
Creatures
3 Aven Mindcensor
4 Spellstutter Sprite
3 Vendilion Clique
4 Cryptic Command
4 Mana Leak
4 Path to Exile
4 Preordain
3 Spell Pierce
4 Spreading Seas
2 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Day of Judgment
4 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Oblivion Ring
2 Sower of Temptation
3 Threads of Disloyalty
3 Timely Reinforcements
UW/r Gifts-based Control/Combo
Wartico1 8-30-2011 (3-1) - Three separate appearances!
2 Arid Mesa
2 Celestial Colonnade
3 Island
2 Mountain
1 Mystic Gate
2 Plains
2 Rugged Prairie
1 Sacred Foundry
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Seachrome Coast
3 Shivan Reef
Creatures
1 Body Double
1 Deceiver Exarch
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Grand Abolisher
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Pestermite
3 Reveillark
1 Spellskite
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
3 Wall of Omens
1 Day of Judgment
1 Firespout
4 Gifts Ungiven
4 Mana Leak
3 Mind Stone
1 Noxious Revival
2 Path to Exile
4 Preordain
1 Splinter Twin
1 Wrath of God
2 Disenchant
2 Firespout
3 Meddling Mage
1 Mindbreak Trap
1 Negate
3 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Path to Exile
2 Pithing Needle
Request for sticky if you think this could be a top tier deck like I do
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
You can find me on MTGO. My username is gereffi.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
~~~~~
The deck seems awesome vs. combo, but struggles vs. aggro. To hate out aggro, we could board in/out some ghostly prisons, etc.
By me from Hakai Studios.
blatlas on cockatrice. Test standard, legacy, or EDH!
Without Jace, I've found the best solution to this problem to be Blue Sun's Zenith. Instant speed allows you to avoid tapping out, the shuffle effect makes it reusable (and prevents decking) and lets you get away with fewer copies, and the scalability means that it is almost never a bad topdeck. It may not be capable of digging you out of holes or being a massive toolbox like Jace was, but I think it's the best option for Blue-based control right now.
Legacy: UB(R/G) Storm UB(R/G)
Vintage: UBG Gush Storm UBG
Legacy: UB(R/G) Storm UB(R/G)
Vintage: UBG Gush Storm UBG
Combo killers need to be in the board
post do make the mana leak / rune snag idea a lot less appealing. Can it be a format where remand is the premier counter. Oh the humanities.
I'm also not sold on the CC. They seem awfully slow
Cards that worth mentioning
Chalice of the void
Ethersworn Canonist
Aven Mindcensor
Ghostly Prison
Suppression field
Runed Halo
Rule of Law
And I know it's not terribly exciting but still worth considering
Inspiration
With the lack of solid counters you need other ways to control the board
Insert witty phrase here
I can see Ghostly Prison's utility in shutting down both aggro and Twin strategies, but the rest of your suggestions seem rather lackluster. in particular, I would rather have Mindbreak Trap as opposed to other Storm-killers, since it serves double duty in getting around Emrakul.
Legacy: UB(R/G) Storm UB(R/G)
Vintage: UBG Gush Storm UBG
Great input! I agree that Baneslayers feel slow. I've seen this deck win off of Cliques, Mindcensors and Man-lands alone, with a couple of swords (light/shadow and fire/ice) to really lay the smack down. Repeal is an interesting choice. I feel like Venser might be a little bit better in general.
4 Celestial Colonnade
4 Seachrome Coast
4 Mystic Gate
4 Mutavault
3 Island
2 Plains
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Scaling Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Spellstutter Sprite
3 Vendilion Clique
2 Mistbind Clique
Other Spells (25):
4 Rune Snag
4 Cryptic Command
4 Path to Exile
4 Think Twice
3 Spell Snare
2 Gideon Jura
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
I'm also definitely looking to find room for Snapcaster Mage on release day. This deck feels powerful, and Snapcaster Mage is such a huge source of potential card advantage.
The sideboard is also in the works. I'll likely come up with something in testing.
Legacy: UB(R/G) Storm UB(R/G)
Vintage: UBG Gush Storm UBG
Casual - Aura Nightmare WU
Modern - Acid Prison GW
Legacy: UB(R/G) Storm UB(R/G)
Vintage: UBG Gush Storm UBG
well ponder is banned anyways, but think twice is tons better. Sure you don't look through your library, but whenever you have 3 mana left over at your opponents end step its nice.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
Thats because venser is pretty meh. Elpseth and gideon are tons better.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
Anyway, Venser is indeed rather subpar. I'm honestly not even sure if Snapcaster makes his way into my lists. I wouldn't run him as more than a 3-of, to be sure. You really don't want those in your opening hand.
Legacy: UB(R/G) Storm UB(R/G)
Vintage: UBG Gush Storm UBG
I suppose so. I don't know, when you've got so many good blinkable effects, he seems more beneficial than he gets credit for, at least as a potential one-off. Bouncing a Clique every turn is a nice effect. Anyway, perhaps he's better in a more aggro-control based shell than in control.
Legacy: UB(R/G) Storm UB(R/G)
Vintage: UBG Gush Storm UBG
I wouldn't say it's bad -- you're still filtering their hand which is nice against combo -- but it's not optimal, I agree. Yep, Venser is better in a different build.