Yeah, it's annoying as any non-interactive deck is, I'd never play any deck like that, but it's part of the game. The fact that the GP's meta was so diverse is amazing.
Meh? I saw 8 different archtypes in the top 8, and at leeast 12 different in top 16. Unlikr everyone who is freaking out about eggs, Im really happy modern had an awesome showing tonight, and really want to see the lists for top 16, if not top 32, because there were that many cool little deck twists.
Yes eggs won, why not? Dude did a good job. Eggs is the boggie man of modern in the same way dredge is the boggie man of legacy. Pack hate in your side. As for me, I LOVE TO HATE THAT DECK. I really do. If eggs died in my meta,Id be sad. It actually gives me something to conciter a rival or whatever. I like this format a crap ton.
I agree. I think this format largely showed off what modern is about. I generally have never liked junk decks, but watching the win and in mirror the last round of the swiss was very intense. Game 2 of that match made me want to start casting lingering souls in modern and reminded me how good dark blast is.
Also, I never said the people in this thread weren't competitive. I said I was probably more competitive(or at least more zen).
LP, I'm checking your article out as well. Behind all of your swag is the brain of one of the most intelligent Magic players I've ever known. I guess that's one more thing for you to add to the wall of ego that is your Sally sig.
I can go with that. LK, you are the Mace Windu of red mages...cool, tempered logic in deliberation, but capable of just flat kicking tail when the situation warrants it.
Yeah, it's annoying as any non-interactive deck is, I'd never play any deck like that, but it's part of the game. The fact that the GP's meta was so diverse is amazing.
I feel like I ought to quote this just so it gets to be read again. Guys, take the eggs win with a grain of salt. Modern had an awesome showing. Jund got shown up like crazy. relax. Moderns sky didnt fall the last time, it wont now.
I feel like I ought to quote this just so it gets to be read again. Guys, take the eggs win with a grain of salt. Modern had an awesome showing. Jund got shown up like crazy. relax. Moderns sky didnt fall the last time, it wont now.
But if we're talking about the public perception of the format, Eggs now won the first event (Cifka PT RTR) and last event (this one) of the Modern season. While I agree that Eggs can be hated, and that it's certainly not the format in a nutshell, the public perception is that the best deck in the meta is arguably the most irritating to physically play in the history of Magic, and that's not something that is good for the format.
A lot of people attributed PT RTR as a fluke that would not happen again. Now it has.
I just think it's amusing that in every single Pro Tour/Grand Prix/Worlds/Invitational/not a PTQ Eggs has Top 8'd, Eggs has won the whole deal. Must be some sort of fortune or skill on their side (I remember that Cifka kept some ballsy hands).
Diversity doesn't matter when this stream was literally the most boring magic I've ever seen. And I've seen 8 rounds of Caw-blade. If this deck makes it past the next B&R I will be truly shocked. I don't care if it's fair, I don't care if the pilot did a great job (and he really did) and I don't care what you guys think; it was BORING, the chat box next to the stream was freaking out about how boring it was and there was two god damn spectators standing by the table.
Please don't act like you guys are that oblivious.
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By: ol MISAKA lo
Cockatrice: Infallible
Mhjames: mtgsalvation: I DON'T SEE HOW THIS CARD IS GOOD. I KNOW PATRICK CHAPIN USED IT AND WENT 8-0, BUT THAT WAS A SMALL TOURNAMENT. THE CARD IS TOO SLOW. YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE THE OPPONENT HAS A SPELL IN THE GRAVEYARD
One side is saying: "this deck might not work out too well for new players' perception of this format..."
And the other side is saying: "stop whining, just play more hate cards."
We aren't even talking about the same thing.
It's like if you went up to your friend and said "there are lots of bees over there and I'm scared" and they replied "Shut up, horses can't even hurt you."
One side is saying: "this deck might not work out too well for new players' perception of this format..."
And the other side is saying: "stop whining, just play more hate cards."
We aren't even talking about the same thing.
It's like if you went up to your friend and said "there are lots of bees over there and I'm scared" and they replied "Shut up, horses can't even hurt you."
A more accurate description of what they're saying would be your friend replying "Wear a bee proof suit." which is valid if you intend to pass through the hive once or twice on your way to victory.
If they unban Seething Song, Eggs will probably go back into its shell.
I do find it a little funny that the ban I saw no one ask for (Seething Song) seems to be the one that brought the deck no one liked out of hiding.
Giving life back to different combo deck isn't the way to get rid of this one. They could just as easily get rid of Lotus Bloom and that would solve Eggs. No other deck really uses the card and it's by no means necessary for the format.
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I don't think it's unfair to assume Storm wasn't nearly as awful to sit across from/watch as Eggs.
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By: ol MISAKA lo
Cockatrice: Infallible
Mhjames: mtgsalvation: I DON'T SEE HOW THIS CARD IS GOOD. I KNOW PATRICK CHAPIN USED IT AND WENT 8-0, BUT THAT WAS A SMALL TOURNAMENT. THE CARD IS TOO SLOW. YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE THE OPPONENT HAS A SPELL IN THE GRAVEYARD
If they unban Seething Song, Eggs will probably go back into its shell.
I do find it a little funny that the ban I saw no one ask for (Seething Song) seems to be the one that brought the deck no one liked out of hiding.
Unban? lol. Nothing is getting unbanned. Something from eggs is going on the ban list instead, if anything.
I mean, we could always throw control a bone so we wouldn't have **** like this happen every time a modern GP rolls around, but no. Wizards would rather just keep banning stuff from combo and aggro decks until god knows what happens with the format.
Also, I'm still kind of surprised eggs has done so well. Where's all the hand disruption and counter magic? I mean, I know control is weak in this format, but I thought there'd be enough control elements in place to keep silly combo decks like eggs wrecking a tournament.
The power level of the deck isnt the problem, why wont you guys understand that??
The issue is that IT IS ****ING BORING TO WATCH IT/PLAY AGAISNT IT.
I had to play against it once on a ptq, won thxs to a good SB choice, but i still was pissed to have to watch the guy play solitaire for 10 minutes.
IT IS NOT FUN.
I do agree that it was easier for people to lose to storm then to eggs since storm killed a LOT faster.
Also, there's a philosophical question in if it's warranted to ban the deck based on the loser not having fun. The winner should be having fun and most people that like eggs LOVE eggs. "Fairness" and all that. Luckily the universe isn't fair and whatever wizards thinks will make them the most money will be the decision that wins out.
LP, I'm checking your article out as well. Behind all of your swag is the brain of one of the most intelligent Magic players I've ever known. I guess that's one more thing for you to add to the wall of ego that is your Sally sig.
I can go with that. LK, you are the Mace Windu of red mages...cool, tempered logic in deliberation, but capable of just flat kicking tail when the situation warrants it.
The power level of the deck isnt the problem, why wont you guys understand that??
The issue is that IT IS ****ING BORING TO WATCH IT/PLAY AGAISNT IT.
I had to play against it once on a ptq, won thxs to a good SB choice, but i still was pissed to have to watch the guy play solitaire for 10 minutes.
IT IS NOT FUN.
Exactly. I for one am not complaining of it's power, i'm complaining about how boring it was to sit through those matches. And before anyone says " YOU DONT HAVE TO/YOU COULD SCOOP" shut your dirty mouths. You know you have to watch it and not scoop when it comes to a high level event.
This deck is worse than High Tide and Storm combined. I haven't seen a deck masturbate so much in my entire life. And because it's so awful I didn't even think to bring up "Sixteen Damage in hand, opponent at sixteen life" and losing to double Wurmcoil Engine after being thwarted by Cryptic Command, which was ****ing amazing.
And I bet you most people won't take that memory with them either.
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By: ol MISAKA lo
Cockatrice: Infallible
Mhjames: mtgsalvation: I DON'T SEE HOW THIS CARD IS GOOD. I KNOW PATRICK CHAPIN USED IT AND WENT 8-0, BUT THAT WAS A SMALL TOURNAMENT. THE CARD IS TOO SLOW. YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE THE OPPONENT HAS A SPELL IN THE GRAVEYARD
Unban? lol. Nothing is getting unbanned. Something from eggs is going on the ban list instead, if anything.
I mean, we could always throw control a bone so we wouldn't have **** like this happen every time a modern GP rolls around, but no. Wizards would rather just keep banning stuff from combo and aggro decks until god knows what happens with the format.
Also, I'm still kind of surprised eggs has done so well. Where's all the hand disruption and counter magic? I mean, I know control is weak in this format, but I thought there'd be enough control elements in place to keep silly combo decks like eggs wrecking a tournament.
Explain how having 2 combo decks in a top 8 is wrecking the tournament. They simply chose poor coverage matches. The scapeshift matches were entertaining especially the part when he worm coiled his face. The banned list has created eggs and banning eggs will just make another problematic deck (Probably the grisselbrand deck) Seriously. People just don't get it. The only way you're going to get less combo is by unbanning some of the control cards (There is no valid reason to have sword of the meek and bitterblossom banned given the current meta. They fix the problems control has against fair decks while not being blank against combo)
But if we're talking about the public perception of the format, Eggs now won the first event (Cifka PT RTR) and last event (this one) of the Modern season. While I agree that Eggs can be hated, and that it's certainly not the format in a nutshell, the public perception is that the best deck in the meta is arguably the most irritating to physically play in the history of Magic, and that's not something that is good for the format.
A lot of people attributed PT RTR as a fluke that would not happen again. Now it has.
As an interested observer of the format (I might consider playing it at some stage down the track, but just building my collection up atm), I echo this statement. The optics of this winning both the pro tour and this GP are appalling, especially considering how easily those two pilots appeared to navigate the constructed field (they dropped, what, one match between them in both events?). Right or wrong, what it seems to say is that if you put this incredibly boring, NPE, wanky deck in the hands of someone really good at it, it can dominate. And I might be misreading, but it doesn't look like people were completely unprepared in both main deck and sideboard for this deck. I saw lots of stony silences, lots of thoughtsieze/raven's crime and other discard and a fair bit of graveyard hate. And Holiday casually 2-0ed an actual control deck in the final, he wasn't just crusing past kibler's (awesome looking but terribly fair) deck or something.
Anyone who thinks that the continued presence of this deck in the meta isn't hurting outsider perception of the format is kidding themselves. Almost all of the good PR the format may have gotten off this weekend has just been wiped out by that deck winning.
As lot of people had correclty said, the main problem is not about eggs power, the problem is just the way the deck works and how it affect the structure of a tournament, the entretaining of the players (because after all magic is still a game, so if it isnt beeing fun for the players something is not going how it should), even the fact that "isnt playable" on mtgo while being a top deck in paper would lead into paper and mtgo metagames being completly different witch if absurd
Its not a problem about players hating combo, i love combo myself for example but im still against this deck, just for the healthy of the format and the game itself, no because of its power but because of the way it affects the game as i stated before
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"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire."
-Jaya Ballard, task mage
Wizards would rather just keep banning stuff from combo and aggro decks until god knows what happens with the format.
This right here is my biggest problem with Modern. If Wizards just keeps banning problem cards eventually the banned list will be too big to manage since every time something new comes out something will become a "problem card."
One combo deck is not the same as another. Nobody is here complaining about combo specifically. Scapeshift is interesting to watch because it is at least interactive. Nobody is watching magic to see the brain power of one person that can do a lot of math in his head while he stares at a board. People watch to see the strategy interactions between two people. Eggs doesn't have that and that's why it fails.
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Unban? lol. Nothing is getting unbanned. Something from eggs is going on the ban list instead, if anything.
Er, I said:
"If they unban Seething Song, Eggs will probably go back into its shell."
The purpose of an if-then statement is to indicate that if something is true, then something else will be. Admittedly, I heft out the "then," but it's implied. I was noting that part of the reason for Eggs coming back was likely that Seething Song was banned, making Eggs fill the spot where Storm used to. Because of that, I noted that if they unbanned Seething Song, then Eggs would likely lose popularity and not cause the problems people are complaining about.
I never said they would unban it (I doubt they will), I just made a simple if-then statement observing the fact that the Seething Song ban (which, again, I never saw a single person advocate) was likely what made Eggs (a deck a lot of people don't like) popular again.
Now, if your argument is that unbanning it would not do anything to remove Eggs, that's an argument that could be made, but you didn't do that.
I suppose, to be fair, that this was incorrectly dragging the Seething Song ban into an unrelated discussion, and I suppose that was unnecessary on my part. Honestly, the main reason I phrased it that way was because I was trying to make a weak pun on "egg" and "shell."
Undone, you have no idea... Bitterblossom does nothing vs. eggs. Sword is broken. But I'm not here to complain about what should be unbanned, I'm here to beg any powers that be to ban eggs.
I just finished GP San Diego (10-5, 72nd) and the worst part about the tournament was eggs. In my one match vs. it his game one took 30 minutes, of which I used two and a half minutes tops. He beat me game 2, but if he hadn't there's no way we could've finished, except of course by going way, way way over time as everyone waits. GP San Diego was very efficiently run, pairings going out seconds after the last result came in. Still, eggs, and eggs alone, is the reason the tournament dragged on late into the night. All the judges I talked to hate eggs. All the players i talked to hate having a plan for it.
Oh, and discard doesn't work as a plan, they play 4x leyline in their board and have 4x silence for your counters.
Suppression field is good, but eggs plays bounce and you cant use your own abilities either. Still, I argue that Eggs isn't broken good, it's broken mechanically. It takes too long and is a detriment to the tournament as a whole.
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YMTC: We need a spikey red enchantment. My creations:
RR
Whenever a player taps a nonbasic land, [Card] deals 2 damage to them.
-or-
R
Whenever a player would gain life, flip a coin. If heads, that player loses that much life instead. If tails sacrifice [card] and that player gains that life as per usual.
I never said they would unban it (I doubt they will), I just made a simple if-then statement observing the fact that the Seething Song ban (which, again, I never saw a single person advocate) was likely what made Eggs (a deck a lot of people don't like) popular again
There's two things wrong with that statement (hint: it's the words in bold). The deck's not popular in terms of overall numbers, nor has it only just re-emerged post-banning (see: Cifka).
D- for coherence of argument, but I guess you can have a B+ for the attempted pun :).
I agree. I think this format largely showed off what modern is about. I generally have never liked junk decks, but watching the win and in mirror the last round of the swiss was very intense. Game 2 of that match made me want to start casting lingering souls in modern and reminded me how good dark blast is.
Also, I never said the people in this thread weren't competitive. I said I was probably more competitive(or at least more zen).
I feel like I ought to quote this just so it gets to be read again. Guys, take the eggs win with a grain of salt. Modern had an awesome showing. Jund got shown up like crazy. relax. Moderns sky didnt fall the last time, it wont now.
But if we're talking about the public perception of the format, Eggs now won the first event (Cifka PT RTR) and last event (this one) of the Modern season. While I agree that Eggs can be hated, and that it's certainly not the format in a nutshell, the public perception is that the best deck in the meta is arguably the most irritating to physically play in the history of Magic, and that's not something that is good for the format.
A lot of people attributed PT RTR as a fluke that would not happen again. Now it has.
GX Tron XG
UR Phoenix RU
GG Freyalise High Tide GG
UR Parun Counterspells RU
BB Yawgmoth Token Storm BB
WB Pestilence BW
Please don't act like you guys are that oblivious.
By: ol MISAKA lo
Cockatrice: Infallible
Modern Junk Primer
Legacy ANT Primer
L1 Judge
I do find it a little funny that the ban I saw no one ask for (Seething Song) seems to be the one that brought the deck no one liked out of hiding.
One side is saying: "this deck might not work out too well for new players' perception of this format..."
And the other side is saying: "stop whining, just play more hate cards."
We aren't even talking about the same thing.
It's like if you went up to your friend and said "there are lots of bees over there and I'm scared" and they replied "Shut up, horses can't even hurt you."
A more accurate description of what they're saying would be your friend replying "Wear a bee proof suit." which is valid if you intend to pass through the hive once or twice on your way to victory.
Wizards in relation to modern.
"The bannings will continue until attendance improves."
Not sure if trolling or just very stupid.:fry:
Giving life back to different combo deck isn't the way to get rid of this one. They could just as easily get rid of Lotus Bloom and that would solve Eggs. No other deck really uses the card and it's by no means necessary for the format.
Modern
xWBreakfast at Urza'sxW
UWGBantUWG
GWRNaya ZooRWG
By: ol MISAKA lo
Cockatrice: Infallible
Unban? lol. Nothing is getting unbanned. Something from eggs is going on the ban list instead, if anything.
I mean, we could always throw control a bone so we wouldn't have **** like this happen every time a modern GP rolls around, but no. Wizards would rather just keep banning stuff from combo and aggro decks until god knows what happens with the format.
Also, I'm still kind of surprised eggs has done so well. Where's all the hand disruption and counter magic? I mean, I know control is weak in this format, but I thought there'd be enough control elements in place to keep silly combo decks like eggs wrecking a tournament.
Modern Junk Primer
Legacy ANT Primer
L1 Judge
The issue is that IT IS ****ING BORING TO WATCH IT/PLAY AGAISNT IT.
I had to play against it once on a ptq, won thxs to a good SB choice, but i still was pissed to have to watch the guy play solitaire for 10 minutes.
IT IS NOT FUN.
Also, there's a philosophical question in if it's warranted to ban the deck based on the loser not having fun. The winner should be having fun and most people that like eggs LOVE eggs. "Fairness" and all that. Luckily the universe isn't fair and whatever wizards thinks will make them the most money will be the decision that wins out.
Exactly. I for one am not complaining of it's power, i'm complaining about how boring it was to sit through those matches. And before anyone says " YOU DONT HAVE TO/YOU COULD SCOOP" shut your dirty mouths. You know you have to watch it and not scoop when it comes to a high level event.
This deck is worse than High Tide and Storm combined. I haven't seen a deck masturbate so much in my entire life. And because it's so awful I didn't even think to bring up "Sixteen Damage in hand, opponent at sixteen life" and losing to double Wurmcoil Engine after being thwarted by Cryptic Command, which was ****ing amazing.
And I bet you most people won't take that memory with them either.
By: ol MISAKA lo
Cockatrice: Infallible
Explain how having 2 combo decks in a top 8 is wrecking the tournament. They simply chose poor coverage matches. The scapeshift matches were entertaining especially the part when he worm coiled his face. The banned list has created eggs and banning eggs will just make another problematic deck (Probably the grisselbrand deck) Seriously. People just don't get it. The only way you're going to get less combo is by unbanning some of the control cards (There is no valid reason to have sword of the meek and bitterblossom banned given the current meta. They fix the problems control has against fair decks while not being blank against combo)
Wizards in relation to modern.
"The bannings will continue until attendance improves."
Not sure if trolling or just very stupid.:fry:
As an interested observer of the format (I might consider playing it at some stage down the track, but just building my collection up atm), I echo this statement. The optics of this winning both the pro tour and this GP are appalling, especially considering how easily those two pilots appeared to navigate the constructed field (they dropped, what, one match between them in both events?). Right or wrong, what it seems to say is that if you put this incredibly boring, NPE, wanky deck in the hands of someone really good at it, it can dominate. And I might be misreading, but it doesn't look like people were completely unprepared in both main deck and sideboard for this deck. I saw lots of stony silences, lots of thoughtsieze/raven's crime and other discard and a fair bit of graveyard hate. And Holiday casually 2-0ed an actual control deck in the final, he wasn't just crusing past kibler's (awesome looking but terribly fair) deck or something.
Anyone who thinks that the continued presence of this deck in the meta isn't hurting outsider perception of the format is kidding themselves. Almost all of the good PR the format may have gotten off this weekend has just been wiped out by that deck winning.
Its not a problem about players hating combo, i love combo myself for example but im still against this deck, just for the healthy of the format and the game itself, no because of its power but because of the way it affects the game as i stated before
-Jaya Ballard, task mage
This right here is my biggest problem with Modern. If Wizards just keeps banning problem cards eventually the banned list will be too big to manage since every time something new comes out something will become a "problem card."
Modern
xWBreakfast at Urza'sxW
UWGBantUWG
GWRNaya ZooRWG
"If they unban Seething Song, Eggs will probably go back into its shell."
The purpose of an if-then statement is to indicate that if something is true, then something else will be. Admittedly, I heft out the "then," but it's implied. I was noting that part of the reason for Eggs coming back was likely that Seething Song was banned, making Eggs fill the spot where Storm used to. Because of that, I noted that if they unbanned Seething Song, then Eggs would likely lose popularity and not cause the problems people are complaining about.
I never said they would unban it (I doubt they will), I just made a simple if-then statement observing the fact that the Seething Song ban (which, again, I never saw a single person advocate) was likely what made Eggs (a deck a lot of people don't like) popular again.
Now, if your argument is that unbanning it would not do anything to remove Eggs, that's an argument that could be made, but you didn't do that.
I suppose, to be fair, that this was incorrectly dragging the Seething Song ban into an unrelated discussion, and I suppose that was unnecessary on my part. Honestly, the main reason I phrased it that way was because I was trying to make a weak pun on "egg" and "shell."
I just finished GP San Diego (10-5, 72nd) and the worst part about the tournament was eggs. In my one match vs. it his game one took 30 minutes, of which I used two and a half minutes tops. He beat me game 2, but if he hadn't there's no way we could've finished, except of course by going way, way way over time as everyone waits. GP San Diego was very efficiently run, pairings going out seconds after the last result came in. Still, eggs, and eggs alone, is the reason the tournament dragged on late into the night. All the judges I talked to hate eggs. All the players i talked to hate having a plan for it.
Oh, and discard doesn't work as a plan, they play 4x leyline in their board and have 4x silence for your counters.
Suppression field is good, but eggs plays bounce and you cant use your own abilities either. Still, I argue that Eggs isn't broken good, it's broken mechanically. It takes too long and is a detriment to the tournament as a whole.
Whenever a player taps a nonbasic land, [Card] deals 2 damage to them.
-or-
R
Whenever a player would gain life, flip a coin. If heads, that player loses that much life instead. If tails sacrifice [card] and that player gains that life as per usual.
Fires Rf Salvation
There's two things wrong with that statement (hint: it's the words in bold). The deck's not popular in terms of overall numbers, nor has it only just re-emerged post-banning (see: Cifka).
D- for coherence of argument, but I guess you can have a B+ for the attempted pun :).