OR just ban the fetch lands all together, its still a possibility they certainly considered it before the Nacatl bann. The Shock lands still have plenty of synergy with M10 duals and far seek etc. to make them good.
The Modern ban list is already a joke, let's not turn it into a really bad one. Do you really think they would reprint shocks and then ban fetches?
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Legacy W Death and Taxes W U Merfolk U GWR Enchantress GWR WUG BantWUG
The Modern ban list is already a joke, let's not turn it into a really bad one. Do you really think they would reprint shocks and then ban fetches?
The fetches aren't even that bad right now. I might be biased because I have my modern legal playsets but they are all under 20$ for now. Modern isnt a budget format or anything. Plus there is no reason to make mana fixing more difficult. Wizards likes people to be able to cast spells which is why Punishing Fire, and not Grove got the boot.
Quote from Nyzzeh »
It won't be an FNM format until the supply issues are solved.
Do you mean Goyfs? Bobs? Its easy to assume that most of the high end money cards will be reprinted in Modern Masters which should help the supply issue. Most LGS that I've been to also have these cards and other modern staples, people can build modern decks easily if they want. Its less of an availablity issue than it is a price issue.
Most people I know who play eternal formats have most of what is needed to enter modern competitively. The problem in my experience is that WOTC left a bad taste in their mouths with the ban list being silly. For a while there any deck that placed well in the format was weakened by bans. Its also weird to have Nacatl banned while Delver is still okay.
Most standard only or casual players who don't have all the things they need often cite the price or availability issue. This is coupled too with the bannings. People don't want to drop the money on these expensive cards only to possibly have their deck crippled by a banning. Its also difficult to justify spending the money when Modern isnt that popular on paper and there aren't many chances to play the deck.
Wizards has cooled down with the bannings and has created a pretty healthy format. There are a lot of competitive decks out there and modern matches are often fun. With the reprinting of shocks and Modern Masters prices should go down and there is more supply in general. The best way that WOTC could push the format aside from what they have done is give players more chances to play it.
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Currently Playing:
Modern: UWUW TronUW
Legacy: WDeath N TaxesW CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
The Modern ban list is already a joke, let's not turn it into a really bad one. Do you really think they would reprint shocks and then ban fetches?
I dont know if the ban list is that big of a joke, look how healthy the format is. How many different decks were played in Seattle? I think Wotc has done a dam good job with the format.
I dont know if the ban list is that big of a joke, look how healthy the format is. How many different decks were played in Seattle? I think Wotc has done a dam good job with the format.
I agree that the format is healthy, but that doesn't mean that there aren't some silly cards on the ban list. I'm not going to go into specifics because this isn't the right thread for it; I just wish they had let Modern be wide open from the start instead of being overly cautious.
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Legacy W Death and Taxes W U Merfolk U GWR Enchantress GWR WUG BantWUG
Those are the people outside of the casual players who don't care that actually drive sales. Pissing off the people who have all the old staples is one of the worst decisions that wotc could make, because that makes them less likely to buy new product.
Oh please, what a silly bluff.
"OH NOES!!! my goyfs dropped from 100 to 75, Im so angry I will never buy magic again!!!"
You do realize that sounds absurd right?
Right now wizards is pushing modern harder than a pregnant woman pushing a baby out.
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Modern (I collect the format):
WURDelver
[/MANA]MANA]R[/MANA]GTron WDeath and Taxes WSoul Sisters RWG Pod Combo URSplinter Twin URStorm RBurn
One thing about making these draftable boosters is that it will put some cards into the hands of people currently not playing modern because they don't have the cards. If I draft 2 goyfs I might be willing to pony up $100 for the other two (assuming they go down a smudge).
Enough people doing that and you won't see a huge dip in prices because the demand will increase.
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Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
"OH NOES!!! my goyfs dropped from 100 to 75, Im so angry I will never buy magic again!!!"
You do realize that sounds absurd right?
Right now wizards is pushing modern harder than a pregnant woman pushing a baby out.
Resum made a valid point. I don't believe you understood it. While they won't completely cease to purchase product, they will buy much less than if they hadn't suffered a huge loss.
Legacy isn't appealing to most of the new player base getting into Magic these recent yearsSimple as that.
Modern offers the new player base which consists of a new demographic of gamers an exciting format thats not standard. Everything WoTC has been doing the last couple of years have been made to attract new players from different demographics. They uped their artwork, their coverage, their design, their flair, etc. etc. Modern is another example of this. Legacy isn't going to grow much. I don't think it'll do either but it doesn't appeal to the player bases that WoTC wants to tap into.
Modern Masters is a brilliant move. It's not just reprints with some new artwork. It's a great marketing device. The new fresh artworks are definitely going to be very eye appealing. The new cards will inspire new brews. The hype will continue to grow as each pt gets covered with better content. It's more fuel to an igniting format.
Everyone that has said Modern has to become an FNM format for the last year or so, sorry I didn't believe you. I wanted it to happen but at the rate that it grew in my LGS, I didn't see it happening. But Wizards has made so many moves to ensure that the format will indeed grow. This was a very good PT indeed.
Resum made a valid point. I don't believe you understood it. While they won't completely cease to purchase product, they will buy much less than if they hadn't suffered a huge loss.
I don't think that it's really a valid point. Cards outside of the Reserved list were always had the possibility of reprint. If someone invested a lot of money on them it was their choice to take the risk. Blaming on Wizzard just because they had a huge loss for having buying expensive singles is pointless.
So, I agree with unkyunk. If they will ragequit because of this... it's not Wizzard fault.
they're not going to ragequit, but what they are going to do is start buying a lot less product. Instead of buying product to augment their collections when standard rotations come, they're going to trade out of the rotating block's cards and just get what they need instead of buying a bunch of product.
I don't think that it's really a valid point. Cards outside of the Reserved list were always had the possibility of reprint. If someone invested a lot of money on them it was their choice to take the risk. Blaming on Wizzard just because they had a huge loss for having buying expensive singles is pointless.
So, I agree with unkyunk. If they will ragequit because of this... it's not Wizzard fault.
Cards get reprinted in mass, the players who had those cards get mad and buy less product because of this bad experience. Its quite simple. Regardless how blame is shifted, bad experiences lead to less purchases.
Cards get reprinted in mass, the players who had those cards get mad and buy less product because of this bad experience. Its quite simple. Regardless how blame is shifted, bad experiences lead to less purchases.
So these people are investing in cards by getting them through shops/online correct? It's not as if these people go out and buy boxes and boxes hoping to pull valuable cards. I'm not doubting that they'll buy less product, it just seems that they're a very small percentage of those who actually buy product.
So these people are investing in cards by getting them through shops/online correct? It's not as if these people go out and buy boxes and boxes hoping to pull valuable cards. I'm not doubting that they'll buy less product, it just seems that they're a very small percentage of those who actually buy product.
That's true. The playerbase has increased enough for Wizards to reprint in large quantities while still obtaining a net positive feedback.
they're not going to ragequit, but what they are going to do is start buying a lot less product. Instead of buying product to augment their collections when standard rotations come, they're going to trade out of the rotating block's cards and just get what they need instead of buying a bunch of product.
Oh please, this is eye-roll worthy.
Provide some real evidence that a sizeable number of players will not purchase as much or admit that you have nothing to stand on.
Simply saying it is so is not evidence. It just sounds like you're going on a tantrum because you don't want your goyfs to go down and projecting that onto all other goyf owners. Well I very recently got Goyfs and could care less if thier price drops to reprints.
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Modern (I collect the format):
WURDelver
[/MANA]MANA]R[/MANA]GTron WDeath and Taxes WSoul Sisters RWG Pod Combo URSplinter Twin URStorm RBurn
Provide some real evidence that a sizeable number of players will not purchase as much or admit that you have nothing to stand on.
Simply saying it is so is not evidence. It just sounds like you're going on a tantrum because you don't want your goyfs to go down and projecting that onto all other goyf owners. Well I very recently got Goyfs and could care less if thier price drops to reprints.
I own 0 goyfs. You also need to look at the comment I was replying to. I inferred that he wanted goyfs to crash to 20 each to "say FU to those people".
You always run the risk of losing out on money when investing in expensive cards. I haven't been around too too long in the Magic fold, so citing any examples beyond recent ones wouldn't go over well, but I remember Vraska, the Unseen being seriously hyped as a big card. Now, you can get her for a twenty and few decks to my knowledge run her. Temporal Mastery had a similar plummet in price.
Then there's the fact that reprints don't even hurt prices right away. Hallowed Fountain is worth about as much as it was before the RTR reprint. In fact, most of the shockland still command close to a twenty dollar price and I don't think the original prints went down at all, or if they did, the price cut was negligible. Tarmogoyf would probably go down more due to its high asking cost, but the original print would probably hold most of its value.
More to the point, what's the big deal unless you're planning to unload your playset? Principle? You'd have had a good run with the pricey Tarmogoyf's before the cut. It's not like Wizards went back on its word and reprinted Black Lotus or something.
I chose modern because it was more accessible than Legacy but it doesn't change as Standard (even if there are some banned cards, but it's a slow process and not a mass one like t2 rotations), and i found it funny, because it's fast but not as fast as legacy and matches are kinda tight too. So for me this was the right choice.
In many ways modern is faster than legacy because there is a lack of cheap counter spells to keep unfair decks in check. Sure some decks like Belcher can win T1 or T2 but because of FoW and Daze it's possible to keep them from winning and in check.
Modern doesn't have these and there are still t2 wins in the format. I'm not advocating that modern should get these, it's just important to note that Modern is a very fast format.
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Currently Playing:
Modern: UWUW TronUW
Legacy: WDeath N TaxesW CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Turn 2 wins exist? exactly how? Aside from god hands on the play on infect or affinity, i dont know of any other deck capable of winning T2.
And even then, any deck with red can more or less keep them in check.
Turn 2 wins exist? exactly how? Aside from god hands on the play on infect or affinity, i dont know of any other deck capable of winning T2.
And even then, any deck with red can more or less keep them in check.
Infect with a god hand certainly, but did you miss the deck SCG Blue played at the PT?
Turn 2 wins exist? exactly how? Aside from god hands on the play on infect or affinity, i dont know of any other deck capable of winning T2.
And even then, any deck with red can more or less keep them in check.
oh jebus. you've obviously not played against any serious combo environment. I would have trouble stopping naming decks that can win on turn 2. We even had decks that fast in standard (academy). There are literally dozens of archetypes that can pull out a turn 2 win relatively often, and don't bat an eyelash to red (really, red??).
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Here are the little self-imposed guidelines I'm working with for the multiplayer decks I've been building:
• Must be cheap. Total price tag < $100, preferably < $50. Ideally ~$30. No one card greater than about ~$6
• Format: Modern (makes getting the cards somewhat easier for the play group, and almost all my cards are Modern-legal)
• Must be relatively interesting in 1:1 games. I don't need to win against Splinter Twin, but I should be able to play duels now and then
• Avoid instant-win combos; they only serve to make me target #1, and then the deck is worse than useless because I get killed first, every time
• Must have a funny name!
oh jebus. you've obviously not played against any serious combo environment. I would have trouble stopping naming decks that can win on turn 2. We even had decks that fast in standard (academy). There are literally dozens of archetypes that can pull out a turn 2 win relatively often, and don't bat an eyelash to red (really, red??).
oh jebus, you've obviosly never played modern. If you want to claim that there are turn 2/3 consistent combo wins in modern then I'm gonna have to claim you're ignorant or a liar.
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Modern (I collect the format):
WURDelver
[/MANA]MANA]R[/MANA]GTron WDeath and Taxes WSoul Sisters RWG Pod Combo URSplinter Twin URStorm RBurn
oh jebus, you've obviosly never played modern. If you want to claim that there are turn 2/3 consistent combo wins in modern then I'm gonna have to claim you're ignorant or a liar.
Apologies for the snark. Most of them don't exist in modern because their pieces have been banned. I see now that the meaning was "current" decks that win on 2/3. They've existed in the past, but aren't legal now.
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Here are the little self-imposed guidelines I'm working with for the multiplayer decks I've been building:
• Must be cheap. Total price tag < $100, preferably < $50. Ideally ~$30. No one card greater than about ~$6
• Format: Modern (makes getting the cards somewhat easier for the play group, and almost all my cards are Modern-legal)
• Must be relatively interesting in 1:1 games. I don't need to win against Splinter Twin, but I should be able to play duels now and then
• Avoid instant-win combos; they only serve to make me target #1, and then the deck is worse than useless because I get killed first, every time
• Must have a funny name!
What evidence do we have so far that Wizards is pushing Modern?
Wizards dropped Extended and added Modern to the supported formats list.
Wizards gave us PT Philly '11, then gave us PT Seattle '12 this year, as well as a handful of GPs.
Wizards reprinted the shocklands in Return to Ravnica.
Certain cards in recently printed sets have been of a power level sufficiently high to be playable in Modern (e.g. Delver, Death-rite Shaman, Ravnica Charms)
Modern Masters Edition was announced as a limited release
What could be the next steps to establishing Modern as a year-round supported format in the future?
High profile staple common/uncommons are reprinted in Expert and Core sets (e.g. Spell Snare, Inquisition of Kozilek, etc)
A previously format defining Legacy deck enabler is reprinted in a Modern legal set (e.g. Astral Slide, Psychatog, etc)
The fetchland cycle is completed by reprinting the Allied Fetchlands in a Modern legal set.
Modern Event Decks are released, featuring format defining staple cards (e.g. Dark Confidant)
Wizards commits to updating and reprinting Modern Masters Edition every 5 years.
Modern is announced as a supported/alternative FNM format (or gets its own Xxx-day Night Modern designation) with its own promo card support.
The Modern ban list is already a joke, let's not turn it into a really bad one. Do you really think they would reprint shocks and then ban fetches?
W Death and Taxes W
U Merfolk U
GWR Enchantress GWR
WUG BantWUG
The fetches aren't even that bad right now. I might be biased because I have my modern legal playsets but they are all under 20$ for now. Modern isnt a budget format or anything. Plus there is no reason to make mana fixing more difficult. Wizards likes people to be able to cast spells which is why Punishing Fire, and not Grove got the boot.
Do you mean Goyfs? Bobs? Its easy to assume that most of the high end money cards will be reprinted in Modern Masters which should help the supply issue. Most LGS that I've been to also have these cards and other modern staples, people can build modern decks easily if they want. Its less of an availablity issue than it is a price issue.
Most people I know who play eternal formats have most of what is needed to enter modern competitively. The problem in my experience is that WOTC left a bad taste in their mouths with the ban list being silly. For a while there any deck that placed well in the format was weakened by bans. Its also weird to have Nacatl banned while Delver is still okay.
Most standard only or casual players who don't have all the things they need often cite the price or availability issue. This is coupled too with the bannings. People don't want to drop the money on these expensive cards only to possibly have their deck crippled by a banning. Its also difficult to justify spending the money when Modern isnt that popular on paper and there aren't many chances to play the deck.
Wizards has cooled down with the bannings and has created a pretty healthy format. There are a lot of competitive decks out there and modern matches are often fun. With the reprinting of shocks and Modern Masters prices should go down and there is more supply in general. The best way that WOTC could push the format aside from what they have done is give players more chances to play it.
Modern:
UWUW TronUW
Legacy:
WDeath N TaxesW
CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Vintage
WWhite Trash
I dont know if the ban list is that big of a joke, look how healthy the format is. How many different decks were played in Seattle? I think Wotc has done a dam good job with the format.
I agree that the format is healthy, but that doesn't mean that there aren't some silly cards on the ban list. I'm not going to go into specifics because this isn't the right thread for it; I just wish they had let Modern be wide open from the start instead of being overly cautious.
W Death and Taxes W
U Merfolk U
GWR Enchantress GWR
WUG BantWUG
"OH NOES!!! my goyfs dropped from 100 to 75, Im so angry I will never buy magic again!!!"
You do realize that sounds absurd right?
Right now wizards is pushing modern harder than a pregnant woman pushing a baby out.
WURDelver
[/MANA]MANA]R[/MANA]GTron
WDeath and Taxes
WSoul Sisters
RWG Pod Combo
URSplinter Twin
URStorm
RBurn
Enough people doing that and you won't see a huge dip in prices because the demand will increase.
Resum made a valid point. I don't believe you understood it. While they won't completely cease to purchase product, they will buy much less than if they hadn't suffered a huge loss.
Legacy isn't appealing to most of the new player base getting into Magic these recent years Simple as that.
Modern offers the new player base which consists of a new demographic of gamers an exciting format thats not standard. Everything WoTC has been doing the last couple of years have been made to attract new players from different demographics. They uped their artwork, their coverage, their design, their flair, etc. etc. Modern is another example of this. Legacy isn't going to grow much. I don't think it'll do either but it doesn't appeal to the player bases that WoTC wants to tap into.
Modern Masters is a brilliant move. It's not just reprints with some new artwork. It's a great marketing device. The new fresh artworks are definitely going to be very eye appealing. The new cards will inspire new brews. The hype will continue to grow as each pt gets covered with better content. It's more fuel to an igniting format.
Everyone that has said Modern has to become an FNM format for the last year or so, sorry I didn't believe you. I wanted it to happen but at the rate that it grew in my LGS, I didn't see it happening. But Wizards has made so many moves to ensure that the format will indeed grow. This was a very good PT indeed.
Sexy Sig by mchief111 @ Rising Studios
EDH
G Isao
I don't think that it's really a valid point. Cards outside of the Reserved list were always had the possibility of reprint. If someone invested a lot of money on them it was their choice to take the risk. Blaming on Wizzard just because they had a huge loss for having buying expensive singles is pointless.
So, I agree with unkyunk. If they will ragequit because of this... it's not Wizzard fault.
Cards get reprinted in mass, the players who had those cards get mad and buy less product because of this bad experience. Its quite simple. Regardless how blame is shifted, bad experiences lead to less purchases.
It's problem is the ever-rising barrier to entry.
Current post- Grand Prix KC Modern Postmortem (7/7/13)
So these people are investing in cards by getting them through shops/online correct? It's not as if these people go out and buy boxes and boxes hoping to pull valuable cards. I'm not doubting that they'll buy less product, it just seems that they're a very small percentage of those who actually buy product.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10507340#post10507340
Youtube Channel
http://www.youtube.com/user/MtgMcQuacks
That's true. The playerbase has increased enough for Wizards to reprint in large quantities while still obtaining a net positive feedback.
Provide some real evidence that a sizeable number of players will not purchase as much or admit that you have nothing to stand on.
Simply saying it is so is not evidence. It just sounds like you're going on a tantrum because you don't want your goyfs to go down and projecting that onto all other goyf owners. Well I very recently got Goyfs and could care less if thier price drops to reprints.
WURDelver
[/MANA]MANA]R[/MANA]GTron
WDeath and Taxes
WSoul Sisters
RWG Pod Combo
URSplinter Twin
URStorm
RBurn
Edit: Wrong thread, sorry.
I own 0 goyfs. You also need to look at the comment I was replying to. I inferred that he wanted goyfs to crash to 20 each to "say FU to those people".
Then there's the fact that reprints don't even hurt prices right away. Hallowed Fountain is worth about as much as it was before the RTR reprint. In fact, most of the shockland still command close to a twenty dollar price and I don't think the original prints went down at all, or if they did, the price cut was negligible. Tarmogoyf would probably go down more due to its high asking cost, but the original print would probably hold most of its value.
More to the point, what's the big deal unless you're planning to unload your playset? Principle? You'd have had a good run with the pricey Tarmogoyf's before the cut. It's not like Wizards went back on its word and reprinted Black Lotus or something.
U Memnarch
RWU Zedruu the Greathearted
In many ways modern is faster than legacy because there is a lack of cheap counter spells to keep unfair decks in check. Sure some decks like Belcher can win T1 or T2 but because of FoW and Daze it's possible to keep them from winning and in check.
Modern doesn't have these and there are still t2 wins in the format. I'm not advocating that modern should get these, it's just important to note that Modern is a very fast format.
Modern:
UWUW TronUW
Legacy:
WDeath N TaxesW
CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Vintage
WWhite Trash
And even then, any deck with red can more or less keep them in check.
Infect with a god hand certainly, but did you miss the deck SCG Blue played at the PT?
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=457021
Its designed to get turn 2/3 kills. Its pretty consistent.
Modern:
UWUW TronUW
Legacy:
WDeath N TaxesW
CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Vintage
WWhite Trash
oh jebus. you've obviously not played against any serious combo environment. I would have trouble stopping naming decks that can win on turn 2. We even had decks that fast in standard (academy). There are literally dozens of archetypes that can pull out a turn 2 win relatively often, and don't bat an eyelash to red (really, red??).
• Must be cheap. Total price tag < $100, preferably < $50. Ideally ~$30. No one card greater than about ~$6
• Format: Modern (makes getting the cards somewhat easier for the play group, and almost all my cards are Modern-legal)
• Must be relatively interesting in 1:1 games. I don't need to win against Splinter Twin, but I should be able to play duels now and then
• Avoid instant-win combos; they only serve to make me target #1, and then the deck is worse than useless because I get killed first, every time
• Must have a funny name!
WURDelver
[/MANA]MANA]R[/MANA]GTron
WDeath and Taxes
WSoul Sisters
RWG Pod Combo
URSplinter Twin
URStorm
RBurn
Apologies for the snark. Most of them don't exist in modern because their pieces have been banned. I see now that the meaning was "current" decks that win on 2/3. They've existed in the past, but aren't legal now.
• Must be cheap. Total price tag < $100, preferably < $50. Ideally ~$30. No one card greater than about ~$6
• Format: Modern (makes getting the cards somewhat easier for the play group, and almost all my cards are Modern-legal)
• Must be relatively interesting in 1:1 games. I don't need to win against Splinter Twin, but I should be able to play duels now and then
• Avoid instant-win combos; they only serve to make me target #1, and then the deck is worse than useless because I get killed first, every time
• Must have a funny name!
What could be the next steps to establishing Modern as a year-round supported format in the future?
Speculate less. Test more.