He's not bad at all. Tempo/removal, CA, Beef and Reach all in one card...hrmm...fixed Primetime... ? hrmm..still gets ABUR lands and shocks. hrmm..
Very well could be a replacement for T.Don (finally).
Not very threatening, you wont see much hate from playing the creature itself (more so for the ability) so he'll stick around and if he sticks around you have a 6/8 reach blocker. I can't see someone wanting to use removal on him unless they want to alpha strike or get through for General damage.
T.Don. + Primetime = Sylvan Primordial ?
I'm not really sure this needs testing. It seems solid right out the box.
EDIT: Also, comparing to other Primordials, this one SHOULD always have a target, so there's literally no downside.
He's not bad at all. Tempo/removal, CA, Beef and Reach all in one card...hrmm...fixed Primetime... ? hrmm..still gets ABUR lands and shocks. hrmm..
Very well could be a replacement for T.Don (finally).
Not very threatening, you wont see much hate from playing the creature itself (more so for the ability) so he'll stick around and if he sticks around you have a 6/8 reach blocker. I can't see someone wanting to use removal on him unless they want to alpha strike or get through for General damage.
T.Don. + Primetime = Sylvan Primordial ?
I'm not really sure this needs testing. It seems solid right out the box.
EDIT: Also, comparing to other Primordials, this one SHOULD always have a target, so there's literally no downside.
It can always hit lands which might be one of the more brutal targets as it puts your opponents out utility lands and down land count and accels you forward. I am sure its going to be in most every green deck going forward lol.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
He's definitely absurdly stronger than the other primordials, in that all of them are reliant on there being useful things in grave or on the battlefield. Whereas, like you guys said, this one can always blow up lands. My problem with him is that he only destroys one permanent from each player, so the entirety of his use as a ramp spell is dependent on the number of players in the game and his usefulness otherwise is essentially a stronger acidic slime. I suppose in comparison to old slimebutt; he does the same thing (better), has a bigger body, ramps you a forest, and does that for each player for only 2 more. I would personally hate to sub out T-Don for him though simply because it doesn't usually come down to multiple threats for me late game in this deck. The early game removal and tempo usually sets at least one opponent pretty low, and at that point it's just a matter of taking out another players biggest advantage. IE It's much easier to stop or slow down a player by popping 3 of his permanents than it is to do it by just destroying one.
It's also worth mentioning that we only run 10 forests in the deck. I couldn't see it being a huge problem, but I generally have somewhere between 3-5 forests online by T7. Which would cap us after 1-2 clone / blinks. Though at that point we've ramped and destroyed 2-3 things per player which is pretty huge.
I think it's an excellent card, though I'm not thrilled.
I kind of think he is an auto include for a multiplayer Jenara deck, What would the possible downside be?
Generally speaking the downsides would be mostly something like:
1) Hes not cheap at 7 mana. The move from 6 (Primeval Titan) to 7 is actually a big step up from an opening hand. Slowing down a basic land ramp does decrease its value but we have a lot that we can do with crazy mana so its not bad so much as just extra mana.
2) He is very defensive. This is a pro and a con. He sits back nicely but doesn't swing out very well due to a lack of evasion. Sitting back to block with him is where he starts getting cloned a lot. Primeval Titan drew removal to keep the value in check. This guy is going to probably sit around to be cloned over time more. Someone hitting a Rite of Replication on him will in fact ruin your day regardless if they get to ramp from it.
3) He cant target more than one thing from a single player. I know a lot of people use Terastodon in a way which one player usually gets most of the triggers. This means that more likely you will be picking up a meh ok target from some players.
Personally.... I am toying with the idea of actually removing Akroma from my list... I like her so much but this guy is also defensive in nature and does things when he hits play. I dont know though... I dont have anything squared away yet.
Generally speaking the downsides would be mostly something like:
1) Hes not cheap at 7 mana. The move from 6 (Primeval Titan) to 7 is actually a big step up from an opening hand. Slowing down a basic land ramp does decrease its value but we have a lot that we can do with crazy mana so its not bad so much as just extra mana.
2) He is very defensive. This is a pro and a con. He sits back nicely but doesn't swing out very well due to a lack of evasion. Sitting back to block with him is where he starts getting cloned a lot. Primeval Titan drew removal to keep the value in check. This guy is going to probably sit around to be cloned over time more. Someone hitting a Rite of Replication on him will in fact ruin your day regardless if they get to ramp from it.
3) He cant target more than one thing from a single player. I know a lot of people use Terastodon in a way which one player usually gets most of the triggers. This means that more likely you will be picking up a meh ok target from some players.
Personally.... I am toying with the idea of actually removing Akroma from my list... I like her so much but this guy is also defensive in nature and does things when he hits play. I dont know though... I dont have anything squared away yet.
The answer is obvious imo. Akroma has got to go. She gets blocked all day long by this thing too.
Isn't Venser PW in your list? Sheesh. This card is nuts.
With the new primordial i'm adding more Forests and swapping out Farhaven Elf for Yavimaya Dryad. I think it's going to be easy to get off with the new landbase, it fetches nonbasics and is a substantially better sword carrier.
Personally I could potentially see adding like another forest or so but honestly I currently run 10 forest targets. Assuming I get this guy into play twice thats all of my "basics" do you really see yourself hitting him into play more than twice though? At that point is it even really about ramping further anymore so much as probably just wanting more removal effects?
Personally I think I am going to keep my landbase as is for now. Assuming I "run out" of forests... I will be so far into my landbase I dont think it really matters but I could be wrong. Testing will ensue but I find it unlikely to change my landbase much of at all if it does change.
Also, as far as Yavimaya Dryad is concerned, I dont run it due to the GG cost in it. It is likely not an issue but I dont find a 2/1 forestwalk especially more useful than a 1/1. A sword carrier is nice but generally speaking I have those regardless. I dont see it being overly problematic though regardless of which you choose. I would almost say you would be better off not picking it up though as it reduces your forest targets for the primortial.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Yea ISP i gotta agree man I know akroma is like your pet card but your lust gas become the etb bant bible and I think it's time to let go and play the new guy he seems alot better. Personally I alwaysed liked Marc's nishoba more than akroma anyway but this guy can replace terra but at this point akroma is mostly in Thier becuase you like her I think. Her best quality is really that she's not seen as a huge threat abd unlike primetime I think the new sage won't look as scary on board after etb.
I actually play against a lot of red and black decks that have problems removing her as well. She works well to just gum everything up for them on my side while I can continue to attack out.
But I think I have to agree to let her go for this guy sadly.... foil akroma may have to have her own deck again...
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
So has anyone gotten their hands on a Sylvan P. and played any games with it yet?
Are we talking about Prime Speaker Zegana? I pre-ordered one but haven't bothered doing any proxy work yet.
As a side note, I ended up getting a Consecrated Sphinx in play and cloning it this weekend to draw like 50 cards. I think 9 cards were drawn by opponents the next turn after that lol.
I am still not entirely sold on what I am going to cut to get her in but she is going in for sure.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
No, Sylvan Primordial was what I meant. That said, I am interested if anyone is running her as well, and how well she has or has not worked out. At 15 or so dollars, I am not ready to jump on her just yet, but if I hear a lot of really good things I may have to get my hands on her.
No, Sylvan Primordial was what I meant. That said, I am interested if anyone is running her as well, and how well she has or has not worked out. At 15 or so dollars, I am not ready to jump on her just yet, but if I hear a lot of really good things I may have to get my hands on her.
Oh, I intend to run it probably in place of Akroma is my current plan. I like the fact that its all upside for us and hard specifically for blue players to steal that well. Some of what I didnt like about Terastodon was that people would steal him and hit me with all three of his triggers too often. At least with this new guy they cant direct it all at me and generally speaking I don't get so overwhelmed that I need to hit someone more than once at a time.
I got lucky and pre-ordered my Zegana at $10.00. It looks like I jumped on the pre-order plan right on time
EDIT: LOL Sylvan Primordial is up in price too. I bought three of them at $0.50 apeace. Whoooooo I got on the cheap train for pre-ordering this time for sure
EDIT 2: I might be moving Sphinx of Uthuun out for Zegana as it stands now... I just feel like Mulldrifter is more versatile overall than Uthuun and due to some crazy possibilities of Constipated sphinx. With Sylvan Primordial moving into the 7 mana slot it doesnt really hit my 7 mana birthing pod options.
So has anyone gotten their hands on a Sylvan P. and played any games with it yet?
Freaking amazing. I play it in a BUG deck but the effect is still brutal. I won the first game it came in. It came in turn 5 set everyone back a turn then ramped into a Phantasmal Image to set them all back another. This will get stupid quickly. I almost hate playing with it. I fear what it will be to play against.
First, I want to say, great primer. I ran across this one day and had a great laugh, the Jenara deck I put together was almost the exact same as yours. The main difference was yours had much better acceleration compared to mine. I made some changes and wow do they work awesome.
Second, just out of curiosity, why do you run Pact of Negation over something like Force of Will? Is it because you don't want to have to pitch a card/might not always have a blue card for the alternate cost?
Also, what's everyone's opinions on cards like Momentary Blink or Ghostly Flicker?
First, I want to say, great primer. I ran across this one day and had a great laugh, the Jenara deck I put together was almost the exact same as yours. The main difference was yours had much better acceleration compared to mine. I made some changes and wow do they work awesome.
Second, just out of curiosity, why do you run Pact of Negation over something like Force of Will? Is it because you don't want to have to pitch a card/might not always have a blue card for the alternate cost?
Also, what's everyone's opinions on cards like Momentary Blink or Ghostly Flicker?
Thanks.
-Ender
It's been mentioned before but Pact > Force in this deck for two reasons. Firstly is because Force generates card disadvantage, which is what we're trying to avoid here. Secondly, yes you might not always have a blue card in a 3 color goodstuff deck. Being able to pitch it for free always makes it such a powerhouse here.
Momentary Blink and Ghostly flicker were ignored due to the fact that they're only one time use effects, require having a board position to be useful, and the targets can be removed in response. The cards don't generate advantage by themselves, and instead need other cards in order to generate advantage.
First, I want to say, great primer. I ran across this one day and had a great laugh, the Jenara deck I put together was almost the exact same as yours. The main difference was yours had much better acceleration compared to mine. I made some changes and wow do they work awesome.
Second, just out of curiosity, why do you run Pact of Negation over something like Force of Will? Is it because you don't want to have to pitch a card/might not always have a blue card for the alternate cost?
Also, what's everyone's opinions on cards like Momentary Blink or Ghostly Flicker?
Thanks.
-Ender
Its sort of funny how often and similar this list ends up being with others that hadn't seen my page before. I am glad it has been useful to you and welcome to being a salvation member.
Jason got the reasons for pact. I dont like having to try to play my hand around force either and paying 5 for it is something that I wouldn't want to play around. I view it as more of my emergency counter. I dont just throw it at anything.
In the flicker effects, I would run Ghostway first and foremost. If you already have that I would probably consider Vanish into Memory which has solid hand cycling and can net draw a few cards from equipment or counters. Momentary Blink is solid for just fast flickering ETB effects though.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Its sort of funny how often and similar this list ends up being with others that hadn't seen my page before. I am glad it has been useful to you and welcome to being a salvation member.
Jason got the reasons for pact. I dont like having to try to play my hand around force either and paying 5 for it is something that I wouldn't want to play around. I view it as more of my emergency counter. I dont just throw it at anything.
In the flicker effects, I would run Ghostway first and foremost. If you already have that I would probably consider Vanish into Memory which has solid hand cycling and can net draw a few cards from equipment or counters. Momentary Blink is solid for just fast flickering ETB effects though.
What I don't like about momentary blink, is that it doesn't give you gilded drake back. I'd rather run something like flicker for the added capability of being able to target it.
What I don't like about momentary blink, is that it doesn't give you gilded drake back. I'd rather run something like flicker for the added capability of being able to target it.
Run Otherworldly Journey over Flicker (aka sorcery). It can be used to dodge wraths as well as steal creatures back. In a pinch it can buy you a turn against a commander too.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I run Ghostway and Ghostly Flicker both in my deck; Ghostly Flicker because I don't have a copy of Flicker, although I do have a copy of Otherworldly Journey somewhere that I might have to pull out.
Ghostway can offer a lot of value, but it also butts heads with the Drake, since it doesn't also exile the Drake, and will exile anything you've taken with the Drake thusfar. I tend to prefer Venser the S. with the Drake anyway, and can easily get either of them back a number of ways. Ghostly Flicker is nice since it can target artifacts and lands too, and I've used it to save myself in land destruction situations (in one game a guy wiped out everyone's lands, but I saved two of my lands, which allowed me to keep myself from getting totally screwed.) That said, it is probably something I will remove at some point for something better, like Sylvan P or something.
Updated my list in the #4 post with GTC changes and a number of others as well. I need to post what foils I have one of these days, but it looks like it's gonna rain outside so it's about time to run out of work!
I have been discovering the advantage of single extra turns... I had been combo with closet witness and time warp but took out closet because infinite extra turns was kinda of meh...
I have been discovering the advantage of single extra turns... I had been combo with closet witness and time warp but took out closet because infinite extra turns was kinda of meh...
Very well could be a replacement for T.Don (finally).
Not very threatening, you wont see much hate from playing the creature itself (more so for the ability) so he'll stick around and if he sticks around you have a 6/8 reach blocker. I can't see someone wanting to use removal on him unless they want to alpha strike or get through for General damage.
T.Don. + Primetime = Sylvan Primordial ?
I'm not really sure this needs testing. It seems solid right out the box.
EDIT: Also, comparing to other Primordials, this one SHOULD always have a target, so there's literally no downside.
It can always hit lands which might be one of the more brutal targets as it puts your opponents out utility lands and down land count and accels you forward. I am sure its going to be in most every green deck going forward lol.
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It's also worth mentioning that we only run 10 forests in the deck. I couldn't see it being a huge problem, but I generally have somewhere between 3-5 forests online by T7. Which would cap us after 1-2 clone / blinks. Though at that point we've ramped and destroyed 2-3 things per player which is pretty huge.
I think it's an excellent card, though I'm not thrilled.
Generally speaking the downsides would be mostly something like:
1) Hes not cheap at 7 mana. The move from 6 (Primeval Titan) to 7 is actually a big step up from an opening hand. Slowing down a basic land ramp does decrease its value but we have a lot that we can do with crazy mana so its not bad so much as just extra mana.
2) He is very defensive. This is a pro and a con. He sits back nicely but doesn't swing out very well due to a lack of evasion. Sitting back to block with him is where he starts getting cloned a lot. Primeval Titan drew removal to keep the value in check. This guy is going to probably sit around to be cloned over time more. Someone hitting a Rite of Replication on him will in fact ruin your day regardless if they get to ramp from it.
3) He cant target more than one thing from a single player. I know a lot of people use Terastodon in a way which one player usually gets most of the triggers. This means that more likely you will be picking up a meh ok target from some players.
Personally.... I am toying with the idea of actually removing Akroma from my list... I like her so much but this guy is also defensive in nature and does things when he hits play. I dont know though... I dont have anything squared away yet.
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The answer is obvious imo. Akroma has got to go. She gets blocked all day long by this thing too.
Isn't Venser PW in your list? Sheesh. This card is nuts.
What do you think about this move?
Personally I think I am going to keep my landbase as is for now. Assuming I "run out" of forests... I will be so far into my landbase I dont think it really matters but I could be wrong. Testing will ensue but I find it unlikely to change my landbase much of at all if it does change.
Also, as far as Yavimaya Dryad is concerned, I dont run it due to the GG cost in it. It is likely not an issue but I dont find a 2/1 forestwalk especially more useful than a 1/1. A sword carrier is nice but generally speaking I have those regardless. I dont see it being overly problematic though regardless of which you choose. I would almost say you would be better off not picking it up though as it reduces your forest targets for the primortial.
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Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
But I think I have to agree to let her go for this guy sadly.... foil akroma may have to have her own deck again...
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Are we talking about Prime Speaker Zegana? I pre-ordered one but haven't bothered doing any proxy work yet.
As a side note, I ended up getting a Consecrated Sphinx in play and cloning it this weekend to draw like 50 cards. I think 9 cards were drawn by opponents the next turn after that lol.
I am still not entirely sold on what I am going to cut to get her in but she is going in for sure.
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Oh, I intend to run it probably in place of Akroma is my current plan. I like the fact that its all upside for us and hard specifically for blue players to steal that well. Some of what I didnt like about Terastodon was that people would steal him and hit me with all three of his triggers too often. At least with this new guy they cant direct it all at me and generally speaking I don't get so overwhelmed that I need to hit someone more than once at a time.
I got lucky and pre-ordered my Zegana at $10.00. It looks like I jumped on the pre-order plan right on time
EDIT: LOL Sylvan Primordial is up in price too. I bought three of them at $0.50 apeace. Whoooooo I got on the cheap train for pre-ordering this time for sure
EDIT 2: I might be moving Sphinx of Uthuun out for Zegana as it stands now... I just feel like Mulldrifter is more versatile overall than Uthuun and due to some crazy possibilities of Constipated sphinx. With Sylvan Primordial moving into the 7 mana slot it doesnt really hit my 7 mana birthing pod options.
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Freaking amazing. I play it in a BUG deck but the effect is still brutal. I won the first game it came in. It came in turn 5 set everyone back a turn then ramped into a Phantasmal Image to set them all back another. This will get stupid quickly. I almost hate playing with it. I fear what it will be to play against.
Thank you so much mchief111 for the amazing art!
BUG is the Jund of EDH!
Modern: Jund, Grixis Delver, Bant Eldrazi, TitanShift
Commander: Brago, Yidris, Mizzix, Marath, Atheros, Daretti
First, I want to say, great primer. I ran across this one day and had a great laugh, the Jenara deck I put together was almost the exact same as yours. The main difference was yours had much better acceleration compared to mine. I made some changes and wow do they work awesome.
Second, just out of curiosity, why do you run Pact of Negation over something like Force of Will? Is it because you don't want to have to pitch a card/might not always have a blue card for the alternate cost?
Also, what's everyone's opinions on cards like Momentary Blink or Ghostly Flicker?
Thanks.
-Ender
It's been mentioned before but Pact > Force in this deck for two reasons. Firstly is because Force generates card disadvantage, which is what we're trying to avoid here. Secondly, yes you might not always have a blue card in a 3 color goodstuff deck. Being able to pitch it for free always makes it such a powerhouse here.
Momentary Blink and Ghostly flicker were ignored due to the fact that they're only one time use effects, require having a board position to be useful, and the targets can be removed in response. The cards don't generate advantage by themselves, and instead need other cards in order to generate advantage.
Its sort of funny how often and similar this list ends up being with others that hadn't seen my page before. I am glad it has been useful to you and welcome to being a salvation member.
Jason got the reasons for pact. I dont like having to try to play my hand around force either and paying 5 for it is something that I wouldn't want to play around. I view it as more of my emergency counter. I dont just throw it at anything.
In the flicker effects, I would run Ghostway first and foremost. If you already have that I would probably consider Vanish into Memory which has solid hand cycling and can net draw a few cards from equipment or counters. Momentary Blink is solid for just fast flickering ETB effects though.
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What I don't like about momentary blink, is that it doesn't give you gilded drake back. I'd rather run something like flicker for the added capability of being able to target it.
Run Otherworldly Journey over Flicker (aka sorcery). It can be used to dodge wraths as well as steal creatures back. In a pinch it can buy you a turn against a commander too.
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Ghostway can offer a lot of value, but it also butts heads with the Drake, since it doesn't also exile the Drake, and will exile anything you've taken with the Drake thusfar. I tend to prefer Venser the S. with the Drake anyway, and can easily get either of them back a number of ways. Ghostly Flicker is nice since it can target artifacts and lands too, and I've used it to save myself in land destruction situations (in one game a guy wiped out everyone's lands, but I saved two of my lands, which allowed me to keep myself from getting totally screwed.) That said, it is probably something I will remove at some point for something better, like Sylvan P or something.
I have been discovering the advantage of single extra turns... I had been combo with closet witness and time warp but took out closet because infinite extra turns was kinda of meh...
But this combo also works with Venser, the Sojurner. Don't you run him?
GWKarametra - The MistveiledGW
GWR Marath - The Egg-laying Wool-Milk-Pig GWR
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