I'm posting this after exactly one cube experience with the card, so I don't have a lot of perspective on it yet. This morning my fiancee was out of town so I decided to do a MODO cube draft. I'd never actually done one before, so this is my first experience with the MODO cube. I drafted a GWB reanimator deck with Griselbrand, Grave Titan, and Sphinx of the Steel Wind as my only reanimator targets. It honestly wasn't a very good deck. However, I managed to use Lake of the Dead to cast Griselbrand several times, and I used it for an early Grave Titan once or twice as well. I was really surprised at just how explosive it was.
It certainly fills a very small niche, but G/B ramp or any black reanimator deck would like to have this card. Is it good enough for 450, or only for the 720 size the MODO cube is? Did I just have a good run with it (I 3-0'd the draft, so maybe I'm looking through rose colored glasses)? Or is it actually that good?
Honestly, I've been feeling that maybe Griselbrand costs too much to keep in, as much as I like him, but if I could bring in something like that that would help him get cast more often, I think that'd be a good thing.
It has similar problems as Seething Song:
> it does nothing until turn 3
> it is bad at powering out spells that are not in the same color
+ can give you an additional mana
- much harder to cast
- permanent loss of a 2 mana sources
So if whatever you cast does not win you the game, you are heavily disadvantaged.
These are all good points, but I do think the fact that it plays so well with Crucible and Loam can negate the drawback pretty well. Also, I think in cube gaining a ton of black mana can be a lot better than gaining a ton of red mana, usually.
I'm not saying I necessarily disagree with your points. I don't really know what I think now, I'm just kinda trying to work it out.
I think this card is butt, and I wouldn't cube it at any size. Even if mono/heavy black is pushed to the extreme, this is still like the 4th or 5th best black-based land ...which is just so far down from playability.
I've tried it a few times in the MODO cube, and it's not very good, sometimes you power out the sweetness, but if they answer it you're already behind in mana, and the only way to stay even is to keep saccing swamps to it. You really have to close out the game fast with this card and I haven't had many experiences where it worked out exactly as planned.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Want to Cube but don't have one? Check the map if anyone is in your area and get cubing!
I really don't like this card. Most decks wouldn't want to sacrifice long term mana stability for such a short term gain. What really kills this card is that you even have to sacrifice a land before getting any gain at all.
I think Lake of the Dead is cubable if you have a high number of high cc black cards. I remember playing this in constructed with Necro and Drain Life's. But powering out Grave Titan, Griselbrand and the like is good enough:) Lake is no Dark Ritual, but it can make for crazy plays.
Having LFTL or Crucible is nice of course, but it remains slow and your deck needs ways to use the mana. So you need to have the ramp targets for it to be playable.
We had it in our first iteration of the cube, four or five years ago. It was too slow and too narrow at that moment. I can only see this beeing good enough in smaller cubes that support LFTL/Crucible, mono black control and black based ramp decks.
As far as black lands, I think you'd want to support a heavy black theme for it to pay off. You'd want to cast things like necropotence and Obliterator. Otherwise, you're better using the slot for a different black utility land. Not the usual direction taken for cubes, but if you love the monoblack deck, I think it's worth considering in that narrow niche.
BUT, its not the best black land there is and I only support 1 or 2 lands per color. Volrath's stronghold is too strong not to take the spot and I personally love Urborg as a second choice, though im close to cutting it, because it lets blacks heavy mana investments not be a problem. Urborg in a black deck has a 100% include rate in my group, i'd imagine anyone would put it in a nonmonoblack deck and it isnt strictly worse then a swamp in a monoblack deck. After that there is the famous cabal coffers Which can provide a mana accel late game without the land sacrfiice, but forces monoblack, or including urborg in your deck.
Edit: just to be clear in a monoblack deck you will love that your stripmines can tap for B every once in a while.
I wouldn't play this in a cube size less than 720. The only way I would play it in a 720+ card list is if I were heavily supporting monoblack as a strategy.
I'm posting this after exactly one cube experience with the card, so I don't have a lot of perspective on it yet. This morning my fiancee was out of town so I decided to do a MODO cube draft. I'd never actually done one before, so this is my first experience with the MODO cube. I drafted a GWB reanimator deck with Griselbrand, Grave Titan, and Sphinx of the Steel Wind as my only reanimator targets. It honestly wasn't a very good deck. However, I managed to use Lake of the Dead to cast Griselbrand several times, and I used it for an early Grave Titan once or twice as well. I was really surprised at just how explosive it was.
It certainly fills a very small niche, but G/B ramp or any black reanimator deck would like to have this card. Is it good enough for 450, or only for the 720 size the MODO cube is? Did I just have a good run with it (I 3-0'd the draft, so maybe I'm looking through rose colored glasses)? Or is it actually that good?
Honestly, I've been feeling that maybe Griselbrand costs too much to keep in, as much as I like him, but if I could bring in something like that that would help him get cast more often, I think that'd be a good thing.
My MTGSalvation Cube Page (not always up to date, but sweet pics of my alters)
Why would you splash for a mana accelerant in the first place?
(I assume that you mean that it's easy to cast.)
I used to write cube articles on StarCityGames, now for GatheringMagic and podcast about cube (w/Antknee42.)
These are all good points, but I do think the fact that it plays so well with Crucible and Loam can negate the drawback pretty well. Also, I think in cube gaining a ton of black mana can be a lot better than gaining a ton of red mana, usually.
I'm not saying I necessarily disagree with your points. I don't really know what I think now, I'm just kinda trying to work it out.
My MTGSalvation Cube Page (not always up to date, but sweet pics of my alters)
It's not uncommon to splash for rituals in the modo storm deck, which is really the only application of either card in cube.
Draft it on Cubetutor!
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
The Great Cube Map!
My Powered Cube
Draft it here!
I'd dispute that it's the only application, especially since I just 3-0'd a draft by using it to cast Griselbrand and Grave Titan.
I'm beginning to come around that it may not be good enough, but it sure was explosive enough in my reanimator deck today.
My MTGSalvation Cube Page (not always up to date, but sweet pics of my alters)
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
Having LFTL or Crucible is nice of course, but it remains slow and your deck needs ways to use the mana. So you need to have the ramp targets for it to be playable.
We had it in our first iteration of the cube, four or five years ago. It was too slow and too narrow at that moment. I can only see this beeing good enough in smaller cubes that support LFTL/Crucible, mono black control and black based ramp decks.
I feel compelled to repeat everything I hear
ha! you're funny.
As far as black lands, I think you'd want to support a heavy black theme for it to pay off. You'd want to cast things like necropotence and Obliterator. Otherwise, you're better using the slot for a different black utility land. Not the usual direction taken for cubes, but if you love the monoblack deck, I think it's worth considering in that narrow niche.
360 Uncommons only Cube!
BUT, its not the best black land there is and I only support 1 or 2 lands per color. Volrath's stronghold is too strong not to take the spot and I personally love Urborg as a second choice, though im close to cutting it, because it lets blacks heavy mana investments not be a problem. Urborg in a black deck has a 100% include rate in my group, i'd imagine anyone would put it in a nonmonoblack deck and it isnt strictly worse then a swamp in a monoblack deck. After that there is the famous cabal coffers Which can provide a mana accel late game without the land sacrfiice, but forces monoblack, or including urborg in your deck.
Edit: just to be clear in a monoblack deck you will love that your stripmines can tap for B every once in a while.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=484979
Blimpy's Aggro-Focused Cube (powered 360)
I'm always open to suggestions on how to improve my cube. Take a look and ask a question, or give a constructive critique whenever you can.
While I am a fan of this card, I think it is also too fragile to any land destruction or bounce effects.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!