MTG Salvation

I love how you gave me no credit at all even though I supplied like half the cards

I think Morph creatures and Land Destruction are absolutely pivotal. I wouldn't cube without 'em.

Quote from wtwlf123

I think Morph creatures and Land Destruction are absolutely pivotal. I wouldn't cube without 'em.

Well right now I found the cube to be too small to fit morphs in, but when I expand I will add them. I already have all the blue ones pulled out and waiting :D.

Why is land destruction pivotal? I have no good utility lands, and my manafixing lands aren't that great so it will be difficult to build 5CC, which is the main reason to run LD, right?

I have to agree with ThatOneNinja. Land Destruction that targets basic lands tends to be more a griefer than fun. Land Destruction imo should be used for taking down problematic utility lands, (maze of ith, kjeldoran outpost, urza's Factory), Lands that produce way too much mana (gaea's cradle, tolarian academy) or solid mana fixing (Revised duals, city of brass). I don't think any of the non basics he has listed warrent land destruction.

And In conclusion, get a willbender, vesuvan shapeshifter, (save up for an exalted angel), and have the best morphs in your cube.

The game is balanced with land destruction cards in it. The cube is too.

Losing to control all the time because your red deck can't use Pillage is a lot more griefing than occasionally blowing up an Island with it to regulate tempo.

Quote from wtwlf123

The game is balanced with land destruction cards in it. The cube is too.

Losing to control all the time because your red deck can't use Pillage is a lot more griefing than occasionally blowing up an Island with it to regulate tempo.

I agree here. I can understand if you don't want to run cards like Stone Rain or Winter's Grasp, but I think a card like Pillage is definitely needed in a red section. I'll also say that I agree with Pringlesman as well that cube land destruction should be there for problematic lands and not for basics and it certainly shouldn't be a viable archetype. No one wants to play against LD... ever. It's fun to play, but it's so unfun to play against. Cards like Pillage and Aftershock don't do much for an LD archetype, but they do help when building a sort of Ponza RX aggro control deck.

And also I don't understand why you wouldn't include morphs. "The cube isn't big enough" doesn't seem like a very good reason for their exclusion to me. If anything, that's all the more reason to add them... it makes the cube bigger! If nothing else you can at least add the cheaper, more affordable ones.

calibretto

I guess I'll add a few LD cards when I expand the cube (I might start off with a 45 card expansion after M10). I'll add in pillage, Acidic Slime, and Wrecking Ball, and maybe Molten Rain.

As for morphs, I really wanted to put the blue ones in, but I would have to take out a least five creatures in blue (and I only have twenty) and I like the card I have in now better. Right now I have Willbender, Disruptive Pitmage, Fledgling Mawcor, Fathom Seer, Voidmage Apprenticeand Wall of Deceit to put in, which would give blue a total of seven morphs with Quicksilver Dragon. Is that enough morphs to make them not obvious? And if not what do you recommend adding?

I was also having trouble finding good, cheap morphs for other colors. All I could think of was Skinthinner in black. What do you guys recommend?

don't forget that I have a vesuvan shapeshifter, brine elemental, and zoetic carvern that we can borrow from one of my decks to get more morphs in if we have to. What about that red morph that destroys lands when its flipped?

I think that the red morph that destroys lands is too much mana, but there's Gathan Raiders if you want to run it. I don't think that lack of space should make you not want to run morphs, if they're the best creatures in their color (Vesuvan Shapeshifter, Willbender, Exalted Angel [which wouldn't work for budgetary reasons]) then I'd include them, mine has the same number of cards in each color (50) and I've yet to have a problem including morphs. (Also agreed on LD's inclusion, it helps keep things like control/5 color in check, Dwarven Blastminer's a good morph for LD as well.) There's also Nantuko Vigilante in green for a disenchant effect.

Due to popular demand I am expanding the cube by 45 cards in order to fit in morphs and a wee bit of land destruction. I am adding in six morphs: Willbender, Fledgling Mawcor, Fathom Seer, Voidmage Apprentice, Brine Elemental, and Skinthinner. I am also adding six LD cards: Molten Rain, Pillage, Lay Waste, Dwarven Driller, and Mwonvuli Acid-Moss,and Wrecking Ball.

Since I have the room now, I decided to give the Shards some lovin' and added in two cards from each shard.

Heres the breakdown for the additions:

+5 of each color (25 cards)
+1 of each allied pair (5 cards)
+2 of each Shard (10 cards)
+5 artifacts (5 cards)________
45 cards total

Addtions:

I'd consider Demolish over Lay Waste. Lay Waste is pretty bad (too narrow), and they're both "budget" cards.

Instead of Dwarven Driller, you could use Dwarven Blastminer. Not only is it cheap, but it's good, AND it's both a Morph card and an LD card... addressing both of your needs.

Even though Bane of the Living is rare, it's really cheap, and it's one of the best morph creatures out there.

Good additions for the artifacts, but that's a lot of tri-color cards for a cube this size that's lacking on mana-fixing.

I'll second what wtwlf123 said and add that I'd rather have Creeping Mold than Mwonvuli Acid-Moss. I doubt the mana ramp from Acid-Moss will ever be as relevant as being able to target artifacts and enchantments as well as lands.

calibretto

Lay Waste has become Demolish.

I'll change Dwarven Driller to Dwarven Blastmaster as soon as I get one and will do the same with the Acid Moss and Creeping Mold.

I will definitely pick up a Bane of the Living.

My brother demands more artifacts(plus we need a couple more fixers for the tricolored cards) so I added: Weatherseed Totem, Darksteel Ingot, Moonglove Extract, Armillary Sphere, and Aether Spellbomb.

I'll test to see 10 tricolors is too many, but I think it will be fine. The only ones that I anticipate having problems with are the thoctar, specter, and thrinax.

Should I add in the Panorama's as more fixing? I also hope that I can pick up the allied painlands on the cheap soon. I don't see why their prices shouldn't plummet soon.

Thanks for all the input.

Land destruction is important in a cube with really strong utility lands. As the current list has only mana fixing lands, and you don't want to spend lots of dollars to get utility lands, land destruction is just nice to have.

So I would not run dedicated land destruction (Molten Rain), but cards like Pillage and Demolish (though I would not run Demolish, but Aftershock, which is a budget card too). I suggest cutting Molten Rain for, say, a burn spell. Dwarven Blastminer is ok. Come M10 I suggest replacing Creeping Mold with Acidic Slime.

Morphs can be a surprise factor at times, but most of the time when my opponent plays a face down creature I can guess what it is. So you do not actually need many morphs, you just need good ones. I'd probably cut Fledgling Mawcor and Voidmage Apprentice. Your brother's Vesuvan Shapeshifter would be a great addition, however.

Then, multicolor cards: I would not run too many. Now this is up to personal preference of course, but I do have a 405 cards cube and the 55 multicolor cards I run are enough for me. Because if you have fewer multicolor cards, you can have more monocolor cards, which is good, because they fit in more decks. As I was talking about land destruction above, I would probably reconsider the addition of Wrecking Ball. If I had to cut two cards in your B/R section, it would be Goblin Deathraiders and Wrecking Ball.

Now this was all just follow ups on answers in this thread. I might actually have a look at your list and give some comments there as well, when I find the time.

edit: Panoramas for more fixing would work, of course. So would Painlands, not just the allied ones, if the price drops enough when they leave standard. I would not play the borderposts, what about the Mirage fetchlands (Rocky Tar Pit)? As for five color fixing, there is Grand Coliseum.

I totally forgot about the Mirage Fetchlands. I will have to pick them up.

Aftershock does look better than demolish, I'll have to pick one up.

The Vesuvan Shapeshifter is decked right now, but I guess he can pluck it out for cube time.

I love multicolored stuff :). I guess I won't add anymore, though, when I expand the cube.

For now I think I won't make any sweeping changes until I actually play the damn thing. I should be able to get a draft going sometime before/after/during the M10 prerelease.

Thanks Norbert!! (Ponder is in the cube already, though)

Question: Mirage Fetchlands or Invasion Taplands?

Mirage Fetchlands.

If the land is already going to come into play tapped, you mas as well also use the one that thins your deck and shuffles your library.

Quote from Konfusius

...most of the time when my opponent plays a face down creature I can guess what it is. So you do not actually need many morphs, you just need good ones.

???

If you only include a few really good ones, then obviously you can predict what they are...

Quote from ThatOneNinja

For now I think I won't make any sweeping changes until I actually play the damn thing. I should be able to get a draft going sometime before/after/during the M10 prerelease.

Yes. Play the thing. Have fun.

Then change the list, because to work on the cube is a lot of fun, too

I was just having a quick look and I think you need more artifacts. So in addition to the ones mentioned by norbert88, consider:

Grafted Wargear
Sigil of Distinction
Loxodon Warhammer (this used to be uncommon back in Mirrodin)
Triskelion
Grim Poppet
Crystal Shard
Ankh of Mishra
Coldsteel Heart
Prismatic Lens

Just what I could think of right now.

edit:

Quote from wtwlf123

???

If you only include a few really good ones, then obviously you can predict what they are...

You are right, does not really make sense my argument. The point that I wanted to make was that I would not include bad morphs just to add a surprise factor.

New Question: Invasion Taplands or Panoramas (only going in if I cant afford pains)

One last question: Should Mirrodin Talismans be the next 5 artifacts I add? or stuff recomended by Konfusius?(see Goals on original post).

Again, thanks everyone for all the help. Hopefully I can give some feedback on your cubes soon!

@Konfusius: I know, I just don't own very many good artifacts (p.s. I got Crystal Shard in already).

you might as well jack a warhammer from my zoo deck since the cube is already borrowing one bloodbraid and savanah lions from it. That deck is already like voltron anyways, it assembles from like five other decks as it is.

Also, I still think we need a skullclamp. It can't be that broken in cube. We could even use the one that has "To Gaylord" written on it so people won't be as prone to use it....

I have a grim poppet thats been less than impressive in my wither deck that can go in the cube too.

Now that my brother has informed me that he's willing to undeck some cards here's some minor changes:

OUT: Vulshok Battlegear, Moonglove Extract, and Pentavus

IN: Loxodon Warhammer, Skullclamp, and Grim Poppet