once again, this flip a coin argument is just flat out worng. the deck has unusually high pay outs for getting lucky but as bon sequiter has said it is far more of a roullete wheel than a coin flip. youll hit the jackpot once in a while and just be unstoppable. youll get good draws and have a decently interactive game, and youll completely sputter and do nothing while you draw pump after pump. the idea that this deck either goes nuts or loses is missing a big piece of the variance pie.
also the op may not have called the guy a jerk but he did come into a pauper section of a popular mtg forum and started badmouthing the format and claimed that e deck os for people who dislike thinking of all kind. so i feel like comparing him to the mantra of the scrub doesnt miss the mark as badly as you think.
i personally would be very sad if they banned invigorate which is coming from someone who never played with the deck. it would show that perfectly healthy formats can be completely controlled by players who dont like certain deck styles. this format is the healthiest format in all of magic and wanting to mess with it because you dont like one deck is selfish.
I didn't deserve to win, I deserved a game of magic. Your examples of god draws are great, but find me one that uses only commons that kills on turn 2. I accept the existence of variance, but let me spell this out plainly:
Truth be told, the only difference between Infects god draw that kills you turn 2 and Mono U Delvers god draw that kills you turn 5 or whatever is that you're allowed to have a small semblance of hope against Delver, as you futilely watch all of your spells get countered one by one, one after the other.
So what I'm trying to say is: The difference is 100% in your head.
I never said it was dominating, I said that it is one of the top decks and what you said is clearly wrong. You said "In the bigger picture, infect isn't a big force any more. The good decks have adapted to deal with it, and it just doesn't put up decent numbers any more." I looked at the 5 most recent Dailies listed and each of them have at least 2 (or more) Infect decks that monied. That seems atleast decent, right? I did not look at the player run events as those are far more casual and much different.
A month ago I had no issue with the deck, I thought i was an easy to pick up combo that people could get into Pauper with and pick up some nice wins when they get great draws. My issues come from the numbers that have come out for it in the last couple of weeks, and talking to some of the people that are winning more packs than anybody with the deck. When I hear multiple people saying they don't like playing it, but play it because it is simple and makes it very easy to double or triple queue that seems like a bad thing to me.
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Madmanquail, you're absolutely right. Nothing I've said is correct. The format is perfectly fine and it's a blast to play. These things I'm saying are purely objective and I'm wrong on all counts.
Pauper is fine, and when you get steam-rolled on turn 2 the correct response is "thank you sir, may I have another?" In fact, right now I'm going to go have fun playing a game of chess with this new strategy: After my opponent makes his first move, I'm going to pick up the chess board and knock him unconscious. Maybe he'll influence the game by saying "Hey don't do that" moments before his jaw is cracked and he's sprawled horizontally.
Thank you for showing me how wrong I was. I value your opinion and the thought you put behind it. In no way do I think you're attempting to pull my argument apart because you're afraid of what happens if the status quo is shaken up. Try entertaining the mindset that infect is too strong for a spell, you might be surprised.
Ok then, i pose you a question: what is a "game of magic"?
Thank you for leading questions like this. There is no answer to this question that cannot be torn apart by anyone regardless of what their point may be. It's clear I don't play the same game you do, so I'll go ahead and keep my definition to myself.
I never said it was dominating, I said that it is one of the top decks and what you said is clearly wrong. You said "In the bigger picture, infect isn't a big force any more. The good decks have adapted to deal with it, and it just doesn't put up decent numbers any more." I looked at the 5 most recent Dailies listed and each of them have at least 2 (or more) Infect decks that monied. That seems atleast decent, right? I did not look at the player run events as those are far more casual and much different.
A month ago I had no issue with the deck, I thought i was an easy to pick up combo that people could get into Pauper with and pick up some nice wins when they get great draws. My issues come from the numbers that have come out for it in the last couple of weeks, and talking to some of the people that are winning more packs than anybody with the deck. When I hear multiple people saying they don't like playing it, but play it because it is simple and makes it very easy to double or triple queue that seems like a bad thing to me.
unfortunately that seems to be a symptom of mtgo which i cant really speak to. it clearly isnt too dominating since many other decks get into the money with ease. i guess we wont be seeing eye to eye on this issue because you are having a problem with it for reasons that dont match what kind of pauper i play
edit:big brass on the other hand doesnt seem to be in a situation where he wants infect stopped for unique reasons. so i will speak to his argument.
that chess comparison is probably one of the silliest arguments for anything ive heard in a long long time. can you explain how logic what utilized in that comparison? i mean one situation involves playing the game the way the rules are definied and one involves breakng the law.
i think the reason we may appear to be afraid to see the status quo shaken up is because the format is extremely healthy. call us stubborn when it comes to not wanting change but we dont see the need for it. im not really afraid what the format would be without invigorate because it would probably be similar to what we have now. we will have knocked a deck out of tier one and we'd probably allow for slower decks to exist but their is no reason for this change. i have a feeling once infect is gone youll complain about my 5cc deck or cycle combo deck because they make game too slow. i feel like you just dont like losing and maybe you shouldnt be playing this game.
A recent discovery of mine, relevant to discussion of hosing Infect's god-hand: Daze was a common
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Oh, you think the losers' bracket is your ally, but you merely adopted the scrub tier. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn’t 4-0 an FNM until I was already a man; by then, it was nothing to me but an extra pack to sell for store credit!
There's nothing wrong with Infect/Storm in Pauper. The same people that complain about this also and will eventually cry about Delver being too powerful. The game's always been about rock/paper/scissors and a knuckle full of luck believe it or not.
I wouldn't mind it people actually checked the Dailies for results and use that data to back up this "ban", but guess what? Most people complaining, aren't checking the results at all. The meta's completely healthy at the moment and if you're crying that your tier 2 or homebrew isn't beating a tier 1 deck, then you should really stop playing competitively if your only response is to ban cards that annoy you. If a Sliver deck can go 4~0 in a Dailies, I don't know what your excuse is.
It's even more insulting that people are now requesting a "Modern" version of pauper? Excuse me, but that's incredibly silly destroying/neutering half of the current archetypes and turn it into ghetto shoe box full of commons format. I'd rather play with cards that I grew up with and has notoriety, not something that hasn't been tested or suggested by real format playtesters, such as Gavin Verhey (Overextended).
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I've been killed by Storm plenty of times in Turn 1 or 2. More times, I should say, than Infect killing me on Turn 2/3.
Should we ban Lotus Petal and all the Rituals/Rites then?
I LOVE Pauper. It's the healthiest format, IMHO. Yes, even with crazy turn 2 kills. Why? Because there are legitimate ANSWERS to those crazy turn 2 kill decks. You can actually INTERACT with Infect.
You bolted his Glistener Elf but he Invigorated? Well, I call that interaction.
See, I play GW tokens in Pauper, and with a good sideboarded hand I can actually shut off Infect--even with a janky card like Kirtar's Desire.
Compare that to the Standard metagame where you face up with Delver, and you have lesser ways to interact with anything because they have Mana Leak, Snapcaster Mage'd Mana Leak, and the hexproof geist dude that spits out Angels from his bunghole. Now THAT is what I would call unfun.
Also, yes, people are using Infect to double/triple-queue, but so what? People also play Storm to double/triple-queue. If they don't enjoy playing, that's their fault. Why are they grinding mindlessly anyway?
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I swear, one day when I get a god hand, I'll suddenly stand up and shout this:
This hand of mine glows with an awesome POWER!
Its burning grip TELLS ME TO DEFEAT YOU!
TAKE THIS! My love, my anger, and ALL OF MY SORROW!
Then I'll sit down and proceed to play calmly as if nothing happened.
Yes, the only reason I have any problem with infect is that I just can't win with my tier 2 deck in Pauper. I guess I make excuses for my inability to compete, but should probably stop with them if even Slivers can 4-0. Maybe I should stop making excuses, and someday I might be able to get a win in competitive Pauper. Who knows though, maybe I will just go to crying about Delver after I am done crying about Infect.
As for the rest, there are a few things that I wanted to address. People keep mentioning to look at the Daily results, and that make me wonder just how many of you play very much sanctioned competitive Pauper, or if most of this info comes from old articles about what is tier 1 in Pauper. Even after Madmanquail posted a link to Daily results, and I said that Infect has posted at least 2 moneys (or more) in the last 5 events, people still say to look at the results. Since then, even more Infect decks have been showing up. The numbers that are moneying even do not completely reflect this, as the deck is not as consistant as something like Delver (and many are very new to the deck.)
A few weeks ago, I had no issue at all with infect in the Pauper metagame. I thought that it was just an easy combo deck to pick up, and with it's very luck based nature it gave something so newer players could get a quick win over one of the top players or decks. However, I think that when large enough numbers are playing the deck these positives become negatives. I have played against an Infect deck in my last 13 Daily Events, including one that I played all four matches against Infect decks. Many people are jumping on to this deck for the easy grinding, more than anything about it being dominant. My main fear is that a huge chunk of the Pauper player base playing Pauper leads to an even bigger chunk of luck based wins/losses that are not really cared about due to the grind for high EV.
I saw borderghost ask why people would be mindlessly grinding with a deck that they have admitted they don't enjoy playing. It is mainly for two reason. The first is that it adds a lot to expected value. Per 16 people a Daily Event takes in 96 tickets and pays out 35 packs. This means, that an average person will pay 6 tickets for 2.74 packs, and most grinders are a good amount above average. The second reason is it makes for an easy way to rack up Qualifier Points for MOCS entry, MOCS byes, or to move up the player of the year leaderboard.
I also saw a few things about Storm that I wanted to address. I was shocked to see that Benny84 has been turn 1 killed twice in a row by Storm. Despite more match wins in Daily Events than anyone else online with Pauper Storm, I have never had two turn 1 kills in the same match. The odds of me getting a turn 1 kill seem to be less than one in two hundred. You are just very, very unlucky I think. I am surprised that borderghost has been killed more by Storm on 1 or 2 than Infect on turn 2 or 3 as simply watching results in a Daily Event will show you that is very uncommon for Storm but very common for Infect. Storm is also much harder to grind these quick games with, as even if the actual game is is close to the same amount of turns, the amount of triggers and actions you must do is much more. One more thing about Storm is that is in a similar place last year to what Infect has been in the last week. Familiar Storm was obviously the top deck in the format, so a lot of people played Warrens Storm because it had a decent matchup due to being about half a turn faster, (but much less consistant.) This lead to a very dull metagame where winning the die roll was huge until WOTC banned Frantic Search and things went back to normal.
As I said before, in small doses I do not have a problem with the infect deck. It is an inconsistent combo deck, that rewards lesser players for playing it, but will hold back some of the most skilled. The alarming part of me is the huge influx of people that have been picking it up in the Daily Events and using it to grind out low effort packs and QP's. If this is a just a phase, and the numbers die down some, I do not see a problem. However, if these numbers continue to grow, I would hope that something would be done. I do not want Pauper to do be a format where the best strategy is to win the die roll, and it is generally thought of as a few bonus packs while playing another format.
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I understand your sentiments, but if you look closely at some recent dailies, it is pretty clear why Infect has suddenly risen in fame. No, it's not only because of its quick kills--it's because the meta has not been harsh to Infect.
Before these recent dailies where Infect has a couple of appearances per event, people's sideboards did not have any answers tailored to the deck. Or at least not as heavily sideboarded as their answers to Storm, Affinity, or Post.
I wasn't around during the heyday of Frantic Storm, but looking at several months worth of daily events during that time, and videos of the deck being played, it has a far, far worse impact on the meta than Infect would theoretically have. There simply is no proper sideboarding against Frantic Storm--it has a great resource engine, superb control pieces, excellent recursion--which outclasses almost any deck it faces even after sideboard. I think the only deck which has a proper chance (i.e., not luck based like Warrens Storm) against Frantic Storm is the UR Cloudpost.
If the meta switched to becoming Infect-heavy, then decks can easily overcome this by sideboarding heavily and putting key cards in main against Infect. Or maybe the meta becomes MBC heavy because it demolishes Infect. After which people would revert back to Storm or Post or WW which has a fair chance against MBC.
I think that's what you would call a healthy format.
However, your last paragraph would constitute the problem. If majority of Pauper players are just using the format to grind for QPs and packs without really caring/thinking about the format (e.g. playing Infect in an Infect-heavy meta even if MBC is an option), then yeah, that would be a god-awful format to play in.
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I swear, one day when I get a god hand, I'll suddenly stand up and shout this:
This hand of mine glows with an awesome POWER!
Its burning grip TELLS ME TO DEFEAT YOU!
TAKE THIS! My love, my anger, and ALL OF MY SORROW!
Then I'll sit down and proceed to play calmly as if nothing happened.
If it makes you feel any better, I often play pauper Infect and I consistently get trashed by burn and control decks. I know from turn one that if someone throws down a Snow-Covered Island, it's going to be a long grind to my death.
When it happens 9 times out of ten how is it a nut draw?
I've been playing cloudpost for the past week, and everytime I play agaisnt infect they invigorate in response to my burn, and then next turn pump enough to win.
And don't say its a nut draw, because like I said, it's happened almost every time.
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Originally Posted by Massive Marc
You know back in the old days, when there wasn't EDH, these "griefer" cards in decks were the norm. If you played a Winter Orb when you're opponents were tapped out, it was a good play. Now, you get people tell you they wanna punch you ? It's really sad how carebare this format is, to the point that some loser has to rip up your cards.
Originally Posted by Massive Marc
You know back in the old days, when there wasn't EDH, these "griefer" cards in decks were the norm. If you played a Winter Orb when you're opponents were tapped out, it was a good play. Now, you get people tell you they wanna punch you ? It's really sad how carebare this format is, to the point that some loser has to rip up your cards.
Infect player here, just figured I'd put in my two cents:
Contrary to popular belief, I don't get turn two kills often. Or Turn 3 for that matter. I don't believe the deck is broken to the point where it can't be beaten, however, I'm not really against a banning of invigorate. I mean, yeah, I lose my best card but honestly I don't see Wizards making free cards that benefit other decks so amazingly.
Just figured I'd say my piece and try to show an infect guy that isn't against getting gimped a bit.
In my opinion those really aren't the same, but I see what you're saying. The difference here is my free spell has no drawback if answered except at worst I get 2 for 1'ed. If I answer any of those spells (minus the creatures you listed) they're set back on mana which lets me play out my turn all footloose and fancy free.
However, I fully admit that I could be totally off base here.
Curfew, the only card that can beat the infect 'god hand'
Or just don't play UR Post, control loses to aggro.
Actually its not an aggro deck it's a combo deck.
UR post crushes aggro decks.
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Originally Posted by Massive Marc
You know back in the old days, when there wasn't EDH, these "griefer" cards in decks were the norm. If you played a Winter Orb when you're opponents were tapped out, it was a good play. Now, you get people tell you they wanna punch you ? It's really sad how carebare this format is, to the point that some loser has to rip up your cards.
I don't like cheese decks like that, and honestly I feel storm is the same way, but the format is diversified and just because someone decided to get the nutts a few games doesn't mean invigorate needs to bite it. The only real argument against invigorate is because the format ALSO has Mutagenic growth. How many free common pump spells do you need?
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Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
I don't like cheese decks like that, and honestly I feel storm is the same way, but the format is diversified and just because someone decided to get the nutts a few games doesn't mean invigorate needs to bite it. The only real argument against invigorate is because the format ALSO has Mutagenic growth. How many free common pump spells do you need?
This. Storm has answers. Storm decks also have answers to the answers. Infect has answers, and infect has answers to the answers.
However Infect's answers to their answers don't require mana.
forest elf go, mountain burn invigorate in response, then next turn swing for lethal is not a god hand. It happens very consistently.
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Originally Posted by Massive Marc
You know back in the old days, when there wasn't EDH, these "griefer" cards in decks were the norm. If you played a Winter Orb when you're opponents were tapped out, it was a good play. Now, you get people tell you they wanna punch you ? It's really sad how carebare this format is, to the point that some loser has to rip up your cards.
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also the op may not have called the guy a jerk but he did come into a pauper section of a popular mtg forum and started badmouthing the format and claimed that e deck os for people who dislike thinking of all kind. so i feel like comparing him to the mantra of the scrub doesnt miss the mark as badly as you think.
i personally would be very sad if they banned invigorate which is coming from someone who never played with the deck. it would show that perfectly healthy formats can be completely controlled by players who dont like certain deck styles. this format is the healthiest format in all of magic and wanting to mess with it because you dont like one deck is selfish.
in pauper
that doesnt seem normal
So what I'm trying to say is: The difference is 100% in your head.
A month ago I had no issue with the deck, I thought i was an easy to pick up combo that people could get into Pauper with and pick up some nice wins when they get great draws. My issues come from the numbers that have come out for it in the last couple of weeks, and talking to some of the people that are winning more packs than anybody with the deck. When I hear multiple people saying they don't like playing it, but play it because it is simple and makes it very easy to double or triple queue that seems like a bad thing to me.
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Pauper is fine, and when you get steam-rolled on turn 2 the correct response is "thank you sir, may I have another?" In fact, right now I'm going to go have fun playing a game of chess with this new strategy: After my opponent makes his first move, I'm going to pick up the chess board and knock him unconscious. Maybe he'll influence the game by saying "Hey don't do that" moments before his jaw is cracked and he's sprawled horizontally.
Thank you for showing me how wrong I was. I value your opinion and the thought you put behind it. In no way do I think you're attempting to pull my argument apart because you're afraid of what happens if the status quo is shaken up. Try entertaining the mindset that infect is too strong for a spell, you might be surprised.
Thank you for leading questions like this. There is no answer to this question that cannot be torn apart by anyone regardless of what their point may be. It's clear I don't play the same game you do, so I'll go ahead and keep my definition to myself.
Oh. You are an apologist btw.
unfortunately that seems to be a symptom of mtgo which i cant really speak to. it clearly isnt too dominating since many other decks get into the money with ease. i guess we wont be seeing eye to eye on this issue because you are having a problem with it for reasons that dont match what kind of pauper i play
edit:big brass on the other hand doesnt seem to be in a situation where he wants infect stopped for unique reasons. so i will speak to his argument.
that chess comparison is probably one of the silliest arguments for anything ive heard in a long long time. can you explain how logic what utilized in that comparison? i mean one situation involves playing the game the way the rules are definied and one involves breakng the law.
i think the reason we may appear to be afraid to see the status quo shaken up is because the format is extremely healthy. call us stubborn when it comes to not wanting change but we dont see the need for it. im not really afraid what the format would be without invigorate because it would probably be similar to what we have now. we will have knocked a deck out of tier one and we'd probably allow for slower decks to exist but their is no reason for this change. i have a feeling once infect is gone youll complain about my 5cc deck or cycle combo deck because they make game too slow. i feel like you just dont like losing and maybe you shouldnt be playing this game.
I think a modern pauper is starting to sound like a really good idea.
I wouldn't mind it people actually checked the Dailies for results and use that data to back up this "ban", but guess what? Most people complaining, aren't checking the results at all. The meta's completely healthy at the moment and if you're crying that your tier 2 or homebrew isn't beating a tier 1 deck, then you should really stop playing competitively if your only response is to ban cards that annoy you. If a Sliver deck can go 4~0 in a Dailies, I don't know what your excuse is.
It's even more insulting that people are now requesting a "Modern" version of pauper? Excuse me, but that's incredibly silly destroying/neutering half of the current archetypes and turn it into ghetto shoe box full of commons format. I'd rather play with cards that I grew up with and has notoriety, not something that hasn't been tested or suggested by real format playtesters, such as Gavin Verhey (Overextended).
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Should we ban Lotus Petal and all the Rituals/Rites then?
I LOVE Pauper. It's the healthiest format, IMHO. Yes, even with crazy turn 2 kills. Why? Because there are legitimate ANSWERS to those crazy turn 2 kill decks. You can actually INTERACT with Infect.
You bolted his Glistener Elf but he Invigorated? Well, I call that interaction.
See, I play GW tokens in Pauper, and with a good sideboarded hand I can actually shut off Infect--even with a janky card like Kirtar's Desire.
Compare that to the Standard metagame where you face up with Delver, and you have lesser ways to interact with anything because they have Mana Leak, Snapcaster Mage'd Mana Leak, and the hexproof geist dude that spits out Angels from his bunghole. Now THAT is what I would call unfun.
Also, yes, people are using Infect to double/triple-queue, but so what? People also play Storm to double/triple-queue. If they don't enjoy playing, that's their fault. Why are they grinding mindlessly anyway?
This hand of mine glows with an awesome POWER!
Its burning grip TELLS ME TO DEFEAT YOU!
TAKE THIS! My love, my anger, and ALL OF MY SORROW!
Then I'll sit down and proceed to play calmly as if nothing happened.
Yes, the only reason I have any problem with infect is that I just can't win with my tier 2 deck in Pauper. I guess I make excuses for my inability to compete, but should probably stop with them if even Slivers can 4-0. Maybe I should stop making excuses, and someday I might be able to get a win in competitive Pauper. Who knows though, maybe I will just go to crying about Delver after I am done crying about Infect.
As for the rest, there are a few things that I wanted to address. People keep mentioning to look at the Daily results, and that make me wonder just how many of you play very much sanctioned competitive Pauper, or if most of this info comes from old articles about what is tier 1 in Pauper. Even after Madmanquail posted a link to Daily results, and I said that Infect has posted at least 2 moneys (or more) in the last 5 events, people still say to look at the results. Since then, even more Infect decks have been showing up. The numbers that are moneying even do not completely reflect this, as the deck is not as consistant as something like Delver (and many are very new to the deck.)
A few weeks ago, I had no issue at all with infect in the Pauper metagame. I thought that it was just an easy combo deck to pick up, and with it's very luck based nature it gave something so newer players could get a quick win over one of the top players or decks. However, I think that when large enough numbers are playing the deck these positives become negatives. I have played against an Infect deck in my last 13 Daily Events, including one that I played all four matches against Infect decks. Many people are jumping on to this deck for the easy grinding, more than anything about it being dominant. My main fear is that a huge chunk of the Pauper player base playing Pauper leads to an even bigger chunk of luck based wins/losses that are not really cared about due to the grind for high EV.
I saw borderghost ask why people would be mindlessly grinding with a deck that they have admitted they don't enjoy playing. It is mainly for two reason. The first is that it adds a lot to expected value. Per 16 people a Daily Event takes in 96 tickets and pays out 35 packs. This means, that an average person will pay 6 tickets for 2.74 packs, and most grinders are a good amount above average. The second reason is it makes for an easy way to rack up Qualifier Points for MOCS entry, MOCS byes, or to move up the player of the year leaderboard.
I also saw a few things about Storm that I wanted to address. I was shocked to see that Benny84 has been turn 1 killed twice in a row by Storm. Despite more match wins in Daily Events than anyone else online with Pauper Storm, I have never had two turn 1 kills in the same match. The odds of me getting a turn 1 kill seem to be less than one in two hundred. You are just very, very unlucky I think. I am surprised that borderghost has been killed more by Storm on 1 or 2 than Infect on turn 2 or 3 as simply watching results in a Daily Event will show you that is very uncommon for Storm but very common for Infect. Storm is also much harder to grind these quick games with, as even if the actual game is is close to the same amount of turns, the amount of triggers and actions you must do is much more. One more thing about Storm is that is in a similar place last year to what Infect has been in the last week. Familiar Storm was obviously the top deck in the format, so a lot of people played Warrens Storm because it had a decent matchup due to being about half a turn faster, (but much less consistant.) This lead to a very dull metagame where winning the die roll was huge until WOTC banned Frantic Search and things went back to normal.
As I said before, in small doses I do not have a problem with the infect deck. It is an inconsistent combo deck, that rewards lesser players for playing it, but will hold back some of the most skilled. The alarming part of me is the huge influx of people that have been picking it up in the Daily Events and using it to grind out low effort packs and QP's. If this is a just a phase, and the numbers die down some, I do not see a problem. However, if these numbers continue to grow, I would hope that something would be done. I do not want Pauper to do be a format where the best strategy is to win the die roll, and it is generally thought of as a few bonus packs while playing another format.
Modern: Storm, Jund, Ghast Blaster, Elf Warriors
Legacy: RUG Cascade, Imperial Painter, Affinity, Dredge, Elves, Merfolk, Pox, Dragon Stompie, Goblins, ANT, Belcher
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I understand your sentiments, but if you look closely at some recent dailies, it is pretty clear why Infect has suddenly risen in fame. No, it's not only because of its quick kills--it's because the meta has not been harsh to Infect.
Before these recent dailies where Infect has a couple of appearances per event, people's sideboards did not have any answers tailored to the deck. Or at least not as heavily sideboarded as their answers to Storm, Affinity, or Post.
I wasn't around during the heyday of Frantic Storm, but looking at several months worth of daily events during that time, and videos of the deck being played, it has a far, far worse impact on the meta than Infect would theoretically have. There simply is no proper sideboarding against Frantic Storm--it has a great resource engine, superb control pieces, excellent recursion--which outclasses almost any deck it faces even after sideboard. I think the only deck which has a proper chance (i.e., not luck based like Warrens Storm) against Frantic Storm is the UR Cloudpost.
If the meta switched to becoming Infect-heavy, then decks can easily overcome this by sideboarding heavily and putting key cards in main against Infect. Or maybe the meta becomes MBC heavy because it demolishes Infect. After which people would revert back to Storm or Post or WW which has a fair chance against MBC.
I think that's what you would call a healthy format.
However, your last paragraph would constitute the problem. If majority of Pauper players are just using the format to grind for QPs and packs without really caring/thinking about the format (e.g. playing Infect in an Infect-heavy meta even if MBC is an option), then yeah, that would be a god-awful format to play in.
This hand of mine glows with an awesome POWER!
Its burning grip TELLS ME TO DEFEAT YOU!
TAKE THIS! My love, my anger, and ALL OF MY SORROW!
Then I'll sit down and proceed to play calmly as if nothing happened.
When it happens 9 times out of ten how is it a nut draw?
I've been playing cloudpost for the past week, and everytime I play agaisnt infect they invigorate in response to my burn, and then next turn pump enough to win.
And don't say its a nut draw, because like I said, it's happened almost every time.
You know back in the old days, when there wasn't EDH, these "griefer" cards in decks were the norm. If you played a Winter Orb when you're opponents were tapped out, it was a good play. Now, you get people tell you they wanna punch you ? It's really sad how carebare this format is, to the point that some loser has to rip up your cards.
You know back in the old days, when there wasn't EDH, these "griefer" cards in decks were the norm. If you played a Winter Orb when you're opponents were tapped out, it was a good play. Now, you get people tell you they wanna punch you ? It's really sad how carebare this format is, to the point that some loser has to rip up your cards.
Contrary to popular belief, I don't get turn two kills often. Or Turn 3 for that matter. I don't believe the deck is broken to the point where it can't be beaten, however, I'm not really against a banning of invigorate. I mean, yeah, I lose my best card but honestly I don't see Wizards making free cards that benefit other decks so amazingly.
Just figured I'd say my piece and try to show an infect guy that isn't against getting gimped a bit.
frogmite fireblast daze snap cloud of faeries myr enforcer
However, I fully admit that I could be totally off base here.
Riot Spikes, and then Post your deck list, so we can see what isn't working.
Curfew, the only card that can beat the infect 'god hand'
Or just don't play UR Post, control loses to aggro.
Trade List
Actually its not an aggro deck it's a combo deck.
UR post crushes aggro decks.
You know back in the old days, when there wasn't EDH, these "griefer" cards in decks were the norm. If you played a Winter Orb when you're opponents were tapped out, it was a good play. Now, you get people tell you they wanna punch you ? It's really sad how carebare this format is, to the point that some loser has to rip up your cards.
This. Storm has answers. Storm decks also have answers to the answers. Infect has answers, and infect has answers to the answers.
However Infect's answers to their answers don't require mana.
forest elf go, mountain burn invigorate in response, then next turn swing for lethal is not a god hand. It happens very consistently.
You know back in the old days, when there wasn't EDH, these "griefer" cards in decks were the norm. If you played a Winter Orb when you're opponents were tapped out, it was a good play. Now, you get people tell you they wanna punch you ? It's really sad how carebare this format is, to the point that some loser has to rip up your cards.