Although, I think you can not loose Jitte, it is great to avoid the life loosing caused by Confidant and Thoughtseize.
That is a really good point. The list would bring us to 24 creatures, so we could shave a couple. The only change I would be comfortable there would be to replace 4x Samurai with 2x Grunt and 2x Jitte. I don't know where the other would come from.
And about Ring, it can do the cute Flickerwisp trick, but it has one other advantage over Vindicate - it can kill a Blood Moon where Vindicate can not - not with the lands I proposed. But then, you can't take out Academy Ruins or Maze of Ith or Tabernacle.
The short story is that I was unimpressed. The mana supply was fine. Thoughtseize was fine. Confidant did what it does well enough. But all in all, I am just not convinced any of this is worth the change. I was taking a beating on self-inflicted life loss a couple of times. And the fact that the creatures are a bit smaller than what I had before is an issue. Mongeese roll over Confidants, and between them and Flickerwisp - which is awesome, stuff like Fire//Ice and Darkblast were annoying me a lot.
I did not face any decks that messed with my mana in the testing gantlet, so I have nothing to report there. Cataclysm came in enough that I was missing it a bit, and I was wanting the Samurai a lot.
Also, an interesting suggestion came in from the D+T forum over at TheSource about translating the features of this deck into a Wgb build with Doran and Teeg. I can't seem to find a reasonable way to keep the disruption package working with that, however.
(PD: I fear Ichorid and Graveyard combo... should I run some anti graveyard card, like Tormod's Crypt or Faerie Macabre in my sideboard? We haven't got a thing against Dredge... but, do we need hate against Cephalid?)
I have been thinking about Macabre as some graveyard hate, as it takes no mana commitment and if free to play it's yard ability (And who doesn't love free?) Another plus is the fact it gets around Countertop as your playing an ability as opposed to as a spell. With vial most likely going to be set at three, we can also cast it as a blocker/another flying attacker if we need to in a pinch.
Don't like it. It's only good when it's the only creature in play, and even then it's like a non evasive, non vigilant Serra Avenger that's only big when attacking. With this deck, to mount any sort of meaningful clock you need at least two creatures, and once you have that this guy is useless, except against Propaganda effects.
Don't like it. It's only good when it's the only creature in play, and even then it's like a non evasive, non vigilant Serra Avenger that's only big when attacking. With this deck, to mount any sort of meaningful clock you need at least two creatures, and once you have that this guy is useless, except against Propaganda effects.
You are aware that it can give its bonus to other creatures, right?
Read it again, I didn't quite get it the first time either.
I certainly think that the card warrants a discussion. I have done a lot of testing with D+T at my local store even though I'd rather play Limited then Legacy (and therefore haven't entered a tournament with my all foil deck yet). Honestly, most of the time I'm only attacking with one creature at a time, as the opponent usually never lets you have more the one on the field, or you don't want to attack into their goyf until you draw STP.
I'm not sure Sigiled Paladin will beat out True Believer for me, since it's done wonders, but it deserves consideration.
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I'm bad at magic, you're bad at magic, and Level 4 Pro Ari Lax is terrible at magic.
You are aware that it can give its bonus to other creatures, right?
Read it again, I didn't quite get it the first time either.
I know that. Still, when do you attack with one creature? Almost never, so the card might give you one extra damage every game, when you go, say, turn one vial, turn two this, turn three attack. After that, it's not going to help.
Then again, it is kinda good post Cataclysm, but still, I think all the other options available to us are a lot better.
Alright I have been a long time troller of this deck thread. I really like the deck and I have done some testing on MWS, but I never play any of the good decks. Right now i have been playing Ichorid Combo, and I was wondering if this deck has the capability of beating the top decks. The decks in my meta are: Burn, UB "Faerie" Control, UW Standstill, Agroloam, Thresh etc. My question for you guys is it capable of being competetive and beating them granted it has a good pilot? Thanks, Much Appreciated.
If you could play annul from the sideboard, would you ever consider illumination or does white simply have enough other artifact / enchantment removal for the current game state?
It has been awhile since I played - but with LED and Ritual no longer being Mana Sources, I think abolish could be a better card in my meta with a lot of artifact combo.
This deck has no cycling, so Astral Slide is useless. In theory though you could cycle something in response to Mangara's activation and "blink" him, but Flickerwisp already does this and much much more. Also, Karakas returns stuff to your hand. It doesn't "blink" things.
There is a preview card that could be great in Shards.
Ethersworn Canonist
{1}{W}
Artifact Creature -- Human Cleric
2/2
Each player who has played a nonartifact spell this turn can't play additional nonartifact spells.
Rare and could replace Orim's Chant as a repetitive beater.
I wouldn't get rid of Orim's Chant but rather True Believer or Glowrider/Thorn of Amethyst. Ethersworn Canonist really improves our control/combo matchup I think.
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I almost think that the Canonist is main deck material, it just helps a ton of matchups like Thresh/Breakfast/Fish where you are only 50/50. I think it pushes it over the edge. Maybe I'll try MDing these and putting the Samurai's to the Side over Glowriders. Now I have to get 4x foil lol.
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Quote from Matt McCullough »
I'm bad at magic, you're bad at magic, and Level 4 Pro Ari Lax is terrible at magic.
And about Ring, it can do the cute Flickerwisp trick, but it has one other advantage over Vindicate - it can kill a Blood Moon where Vindicate can not - not with the lands I proposed. But then, you can't take out Academy Ruins or Maze of Ith or Tabernacle.
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lolwut? Vindicate costs exactly the same as O-ring, mana wise. Moneywise, O-ring wins by a lot.
I have to agree.
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Aether Vial
4 Thoughtseize
4 Dark Confidant
4 Serra Avenger
2 Jotun Grunt
2 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Oblivion Ring
3 Stonecloaker
3 Mangara of Corondor
3 Flickerwisp
4 Karakas
4 Windswept Heath
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scrubland
5 Plains
3 Samurai of the Pale Curtain
4 Orim's Chant
1 Jotun Grunt
3 Tivadar of Thorn
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Cataclysm
The short story is that I was unimpressed. The mana supply was fine. Thoughtseize was fine. Confidant did what it does well enough. But all in all, I am just not convinced any of this is worth the change. I was taking a beating on self-inflicted life loss a couple of times. And the fact that the creatures are a bit smaller than what I had before is an issue. Mongeese roll over Confidants, and between them and Flickerwisp - which is awesome, stuff like Fire//Ice and Darkblast were annoying me a lot.
I did not face any decks that messed with my mana in the testing gantlet, so I have nothing to report there. Cataclysm came in enough that I was missing it a bit, and I was wanting the Samurai a lot.
Also, an interesting suggestion came in from the D+T forum over at TheSource about translating the features of this deck into a Wgb build with Doran and Teeg. I can't seem to find a reasonable way to keep the disruption package working with that, however.
I have been thinking about Macabre as some graveyard hate, as it takes no mana commitment and if free to play it's yard ability (And who doesn't love free?) Another plus is the fact it gets around Countertop as your playing an ability as opposed to as a spell. With vial most likely going to be set at three, we can also cast it as a blocker/another flying attacker if we need to in a pinch.
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If I'm reading it correctly, that ability stacks too.
Don't like it. It's only good when it's the only creature in play, and even then it's like a non evasive, non vigilant Serra Avenger that's only big when attacking. With this deck, to mount any sort of meaningful clock you need at least two creatures, and once you have that this guy is useless, except against Propaganda effects.
You are aware that it can give its bonus to other creatures, right?
Read it again, I didn't quite get it the first time either.
I'm not sure Sigiled Paladin will beat out True Believer for me, since it's done wonders, but it deserves consideration.
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I know that. Still, when do you attack with one creature? Almost never, so the card might give you one extra damage every game, when you go, say, turn one vial, turn two this, turn three attack. After that, it's not going to help.
Then again, it is kinda good post Cataclysm, but still, I think all the other options available to us are a lot better.
Mimeoplasm Midrange, CHAINER CHAINER HIGH VOLTAGE
Rafiq of the Astral Slide, 67land.dec Child of Alara, Gisela <3 Sunforger
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I was just asking to make sure that mangara when RFG'd would come back from a slide.
I wasnt making a remark about the deck, my fault, I guess I wasnt clear enough about that.
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Rafiq of the Astral Slide, 67land.dec Child of Alara, Gisela <3 Sunforger
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Ethersworn Canonist
{1}{W}
Artifact Creature -- Human Cleric
2/2
Each player who has played a nonartifact spell this turn can't play additional nonartifact spells.
Rare and could replace Orim's Chant as a repetitive beater.
so if you play a non-artifact spell means you cant play another nonartifact spell right? So does this stop burn or am i delusional?
Which means he acts exactly like True Believer.
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Except that Canonist is good against things like thresh as well. (i.e.: they play goyf, you swords it, they can't counter)
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