I'm not sure if this has been discussed or not, but has anyone ever thought about Mirri's Guile? It's not necasarily card advantage, and not as good as the top, but just curious as to what peole's opinions are.
I know it's more of an enchantress card, but hey, what the hell right?
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Decks
UUU - Go Go Gadget Ninjitsu! (casual) GGG - Beatdown Elves (casual) (G/R)(G/R)(G/R) - Progenitus/Elfball (legacy) BBB - Crucible Pox (legacy) (B/G)(B/G)(B/G) - Eva Green (legacy)
I'm not sure if this has been discussed or not, but has anyone ever thought about Mirri's Guile? It's not necasarily card advantage, and not as good as the top, but just curious as to what peole's opinions are.
I know it's more of an enchantress card, but hey, what the hell right?
you're really reaching now.
i'd say no. at least with top and library you could actualy draw a card if needed. granted i've never tested with guile, but i doubt i ever will either. i usualy have a pretty good sense about these things.
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1.) Anyone who thinks cancel is viable should be shot. in the face. with a hammer.
2.) You misunderstand, what I was suggesting was the total exclusion of Spellstutter Sprite, because it just isnt that good anymore.
3.) Understand, Dredge is not really a Magic: The Gathering deck. When a card is playable in it, it doesn't mean it's a tournament playable card. It means it's playable in whatever crazy fantasy world that Dredge operates in.
i'd say no. at least with top and library you could actualy draw a card if needed. granted i've never tested with guile, but i doubt i ever will either. i usualy have a pretty good sense about these things.
I think I should clarify. I wasn't intending on playtesting it either, lol. I was trying to keep the conversation going by offering different options. I'm content with the way the deck list is playing at the moment, but enjoy discussing new ideas regardless of how "off the wall" they may seem, lol. that's all
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Decks
UUU - Go Go Gadget Ninjitsu! (casual) GGG - Beatdown Elves (casual) (G/R)(G/R)(G/R) - Progenitus/Elfball (legacy) BBB - Crucible Pox (legacy) (B/G)(B/G)(B/G) - Eva Green (legacy)
I'm back to the white splash, .....I'm also thinking more and more about converting the deck to Doran-Suicide
don't ya just love emotion-cons (is that what they're called)?
i've gotta say i let out a laugh when i read this. i'm glad you're likeing the change, but please do me a favor in the future.. actualy test before getting me all hyped up.
i take night classes while working full time. my last long responce about this topic caused me to turn in an assignment late.
have fun, and report back what match ups you face... in which games did they seem to help out or hinder you? when you draw vindicate or doran, think to yourself, would the gamestate be effected possitivly or negitivly if this was still a pulse or shade? personaly i always hated pulse. in all my testing, like 70% of the time i'd want to hit a goyf... but not mine. akward. vindicate being able to hit opposing goyfs and basic lands has been amazing for me.
also, i forgot to mention that i really like running a single murmoring bosk along side doran (you can grab it with a B/G fetch).
edit...
i've been testing a lot vs merfs with my deadguy-ish list. i'm moving the shadow of doubt to the board, and adding the 4th swords and 4th vindicate. i know vindicate is slow, but i'd like to see it more often than not. so i'm gonna try the consistancy of 4. i'll be playing a tourny tomorrow night, so i'll report back then.
1.) Anyone who thinks cancel is viable should be shot. in the face. with a hammer.
2.) You misunderstand, what I was suggesting was the total exclusion of Spellstutter Sprite, because it just isnt that good anymore.
3.) Understand, Dredge is not really a Magic: The Gathering deck. When a card is playable in it, it doesn't mean it's a tournament playable card. It means it's playable in whatever crazy fantasy world that Dredge operates in.
i love swords, but not in suicide. snuff out is much better/faster.
infact, after tonight i'm going back to doran sui. bobs were pissing me off all night. combined with little nighthawk, the deck was entirely too slow. though, believe it or not i did whip goblins ass. that was actualy a pretty in depth game three that i just had to play really tight. my opponent made one play errror that i noticed which might have changed things, probably not though.
anyway, (Greeny), you say you like the change.. what have you played against? i'm assuming you're running the hippies, and i'm wondering if i should play nighthawks or hippies. with goyf, stalker and doran, maybe the deathtouching hawk isn't needed? i almost wish i could keep them in the board to swap out, but there just isn't any room.
here's what i'm looking at testing/fiddling with for the next week...
would it be worth it to drop a marsh flat and scrubland for a basic plains and forest? my guts saying no, but i'm not sure. i really don't like them clogging up my early land drops when i need double black.
maybe -1 duress, -1 hippy, +1 stalker or vindicate, or reanimate..
or -4 hippy, +2 nighthawk +2 gatekeeper? let the testing begins.
1.) Anyone who thinks cancel is viable should be shot. in the face. with a hammer.
2.) You misunderstand, what I was suggesting was the total exclusion of Spellstutter Sprite, because it just isnt that good anymore.
3.) Understand, Dredge is not really a Magic: The Gathering deck. When a card is playable in it, it doesn't mean it's a tournament playable card. It means it's playable in whatever crazy fantasy world that Dredge operates in.
What about -1 Snuff Out, -1 Duress + 2 Gatekeeper?
problem is i run into a lot of control.
aside from myself (obviously ;)), 5 of the best players around me play tempo thresh, countertop progenitus, team america, landstill, and ichorid. duress's are needed for 4/5 of the decks i'm sure to play. and thats only for the good players. theres still plenty of other guys attempting contol and combo like merfolk, countertop and ANT. plus other randomness like goblins, affinity and zoo.
i was actualy thinking of adding another duress in the board. i also forgot to include the lone terravore. i really enjoy playing it, as it's always a bomb when i draw into it... last night i landed one as a 11/11. of course it's going to be the first thing to get killed, but isn't that the point? all of our guys are big, they can only kill so many creatures. and if they're going to swords my 11/11 (or bigger) terravore, i'll still have a doran stalker or goyf bashing in, along with a much bigger life cushion. and if they don't have the removal ready because they've wasted it on the other creatures, well, i win.
things look pretty tight, but i'll do some tweeking and testing.
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1.) Anyone who thinks cancel is viable should be shot. in the face. with a hammer.
2.) You misunderstand, what I was suggesting was the total exclusion of Spellstutter Sprite, because it just isnt that good anymore.
3.) Understand, Dredge is not really a Magic: The Gathering deck. When a card is playable in it, it doesn't mean it's a tournament playable card. It means it's playable in whatever crazy fantasy world that Dredge operates in.
aside from myself (obviously ;)), 5 of the best players around me play tempo thresh, countertop progenitus, team america, landstill, and ichorid. duress's are needed for 4/5 of the decks i'm sure to play. and thats only for the good players. theres still plenty of other guys attempting contol and combo like merfolk, countertop and ANT. plus other randomness like goblins, affinity and zoo.
i was actualy thinking of adding another duress in the board. i also forgot to include the lone terravore. i really enjoy playing it, as it's always a bomb when i draw into it... last night i landed one as a 11/11. of course it's going to be the first thing to get killed, but isn't that the point? all of our guys are big, they can only kill so many creatures. and if they're going to swords my 11/11 (or bigger) terravore, i'll still have a doran stalker or goyf bashing in, along with a much bigger life cushion. and if they don't have the removal ready because they've wasted it on the other creatures, well, i win.
things look pretty tight, but i'll do some tweeking and testing.
I personally don't mind opposing swords, since getting free life isn't that bad
2x Duress is a solid choice.
Don't forget about Hippy; he's another threat that has to be answered and maybe even one of the most important ones against control/combo. When he gets killed, you'll have Stalkers, Goyfs and Dorans next to your own removal/disruption (no 2/1 Shades anymore that need the mana/rituals to get bigger than they actually are). Shades die too easily against burn, period. Although they can grow, they aren't big threats from themselves; neither is hippy without enough disruption/big guys around him.
Without Shade and with Doran you can finally make better use of your rituals by casting very cheap Stalkers; that's why I seem to like Stalker better as a 4-off now instead of 3-off. I always knew Stalker had some kind of bad synergy with Shade.
That doesn't make any sense at all. Your blaming the synergy of Stalker on the fact that you played with Shade?
Personally, if you saved your rituals for Shade instead of Stalker, you were playing the deck wrong.
And Shade is a great beater against control decks, because not only can you play him turn 1 (instead of 3 like Doran) he can potentially take out opponents Goyfs.
I'm not in favor of the White splash, I think it adds too many inconsistencies, and looks like it folds to Tempo Thresh because of the 3 color requirement.
I personally don't mind opposing swords, since getting free life isn't that bad.
I very much mind... I'd much rather have my creature in play and attacking thank you very much. I'm just saying if they don't, they pretty much loose the game due to trample. If they do, it's one less for my other creatures.
thats why i only play it as a singleton. (i actualy stole the idea from a bunch of guys in europe. there were a bunch of eva green lists in the top 8's of several big european events a few months ago, and they all had a single terravore). like 90% of the time you don't draw it until he's useful/you have the double green. one more reason i like running the single bosk.. i have 5 green sources. IF i were to run a basic, that would make 6. playing with 8 fetches doesn't make it that hard to hit double green. seriously, i've been playing it for a while now, and i think there have only been 2 times i couldn't cast him when i wanted- and that was because he was in my opening hand and the rest was too good to mulligan.
tricky... agressivly muligan, play real tight, top deck like a god, and you can get there. most people may think TA has fallen out of light, but it's played by a guy at my shop who pretty much top 8's every major event he goes to. i'll be the first to admit, he's the better player. just like thresh though, he's light on threats. this gives you time to recoup after you're both done disrupting each other.
I'm not in favor of the White splash, I think it adds too many inconsistencies, and looks like it folds to Tempo Thresh because of the 3 color requirement.
not at all. again, we have to play tight, but this is not too bad of a match up. play smart... if they play land go, don't break a fetch. all of their burn isn't really significant (don't ever block), and the only threat they have aside from goyf is little mongoose. MAYBE a clique.
1.) Anyone who thinks cancel is viable should be shot. in the face. with a hammer.
2.) You misunderstand, what I was suggesting was the total exclusion of Spellstutter Sprite, because it just isnt that good anymore.
3.) Understand, Dredge is not really a Magic: The Gathering deck. When a card is playable in it, it doesn't mean it's a tournament playable card. It means it's playable in whatever crazy fantasy world that Dredge operates in.
not at all. again, we have to play tight, but this is not too bad of a match up. play smart... if they play land go, don't break a fetch. all of their burn isn't really significant (don't ever block), and the only threat they have aside from goyf is little mongoose. MAYBE a clique.
Hmm, maybe I'll dust off my Scrublands and try it out.
he already said he was open to the idea of adding scrublands... right above your post.
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1.) Anyone who thinks cancel is viable should be shot. in the face. with a hammer.
2.) You misunderstand, what I was suggesting was the total exclusion of Spellstutter Sprite, because it just isnt that good anymore.
3.) Understand, Dredge is not really a Magic: The Gathering deck. When a card is playable in it, it doesn't mean it's a tournament playable card. It means it's playable in whatever crazy fantasy world that Dredge operates in.
Shade is a 2/1 creature when it enters the battlefield, thus it dies very easily against burn. Without ritual(s) there are too many situations where Shade is just too small to compete with the rest on the field or to survive burn spells, especially when you're tight on mana; after it enters the battlefield it needs another turn to really do something. Doran doesn't die as easily (if not at all) by burn and he's strong enough to compete with most other creatures on the field; it's always a 5/5 creature; Shade isn't by far...talking about inconsistency.
Add 4 scrublands, 3 Dorans and 3 Vindicates and I'd like to hear your opinion by then.
This is not true at all.
How many architypes have you played against in Legacy?
Shade is extremely good against a number of architypes. Any Stax variant. Any control deck.
Not every deck in Legacy plays Burn. And if your shade keeps dying to removal, your either just playing him out there w/o mana up, no matter what the board position, or not even using your other cards to protect him.
Shade is good. He has been proven, and he does work. To just rag on a card because you want to play Doran is not good.
Like I said, I will test the White, but I do not expect it to be nearly as good as just the straight splash. Other than Vindicate, I do not see any warrant in the White splash.
Hello, I've been putting together an Eva Green deck for a little while now, but can't seem to get my hands on any Nantuko Shades. Would you guys say that a good replacement would be Nakaya Shade or Putrid Leech?
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BMinion of Clan Mono-BlackB
"Be self critical, but divorce your sense of self from your play. You can’t let things affect you emotionally, but at the same time you have to really examine your choices, question them, and see what you could have done better."
- Jon Finkel
Currently Playing:
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Legacy
U/W Tempo
Belcher
Countertop Progenitus
Eva Green or Team America, depends on how I'm feeling
going back to your argument about shade being good against decks other than burn, like stax and control..
why is leach any worse?
he's only bad in the same match ups that shade is bad.
no one's saying to run him instead of goyf,
we're just saying you could run it next to goyf, as goyfs 5-6.
it's really not all that bad if you've got an open slot.
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1.) Anyone who thinks cancel is viable should be shot. in the face. with a hammer.
2.) You misunderstand, what I was suggesting was the total exclusion of Spellstutter Sprite, because it just isnt that good anymore.
3.) Understand, Dredge is not really a Magic: The Gathering deck. When a card is playable in it, it doesn't mean it's a tournament playable card. It means it's playable in whatever crazy fantasy world that Dredge operates in.
going back to your argument about shade being good against decks other than burn, like stax and control..
why is leach any worse?
he's only bad in the same match ups that shade is bad.
no one's saying to run him instead of goyf,
we're just saying you could run it next to goyf, as goyfs 5-6.
it's really not all that bad if you've got an open slot.
Actually, it's strictly worse because of the color requirment.
I've played this deck against enough Blue decks to know that the only reason I should be fetching Green is for Goyf and Goyf alone. There is no reason to open myself up to Goblins or Thresh by fetching a Green land so I can play the under performing Leech.
It just simply shouldn't happen, and that kind of play does not warrant tight play agaisnt a good opponent running a good deck.
Actually, it's strictly worse because of the color requirment.
I've played this deck against enough Blue decks to know that the only reason I should be fetching Green is for Goyf and Goyf alone. There is no reason to open myself up to Goblins or Thresh by fetching a Green land so I can play the under performing Leech.
It just simply shouldn't happen, and that kind of play does not warrant tight play agaisnt a good opponent running a good deck.
I have to agree with this point. The only green I run is for Goyf and Pulse. Which each require only a single G. Other than Bayou, I should only be fetching a swamp, to play my BB cards like Sinkhole and shade etc. Leech isn't a bad card in general, but I think he'd set you back a turn in way.
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Decks
UUU - Go Go Gadget Ninjitsu! (casual) GGG - Beatdown Elves (casual) (G/R)(G/R)(G/R) - Progenitus/Elfball (legacy) BBB - Crucible Pox (legacy) (B/G)(B/G)(B/G) - Eva Green (legacy)
Are most people playing less than 4 Stalkers these days? 4 has worked well for me for quite some time, but I would consider going down to 3 for consistency. It is one of the most unanswerable creatures in Legacy, but the 3rd is always a dead card, and you usually have to wait a bit to play the 2nd. Just wondering what people think about this.
for "consistancies" sake, you should run 4. most winning lists i've seen run 4.
however, i've been running 3 for a long time, just because i hate having a dead card in my opening hand (2 stalkers). some would say this isn't a bad thing, but personally just don't like it. this also gives me another open slot in an already tight list.
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1.) Anyone who thinks cancel is viable should be shot. in the face. with a hammer.
2.) You misunderstand, what I was suggesting was the total exclusion of Spellstutter Sprite, because it just isnt that good anymore.
3.) Understand, Dredge is not really a Magic: The Gathering deck. When a card is playable in it, it doesn't mean it's a tournament playable card. It means it's playable in whatever crazy fantasy world that Dredge operates in.
hmmm. That is kind of dangerous. what happens if they counter your gatekeeper and/or extirpate it? you hane no way of sacking it. If i was your opponent i would let you keep the persecutor in play until i find my win condition.
I do think he's worth testing, since against most decks in the format he's a three turn clock, but I have two concerns:
1. Tombstalker is easier to cast without rituals, and without the potential "drawback".
2. He needs to be built around, ie. including enough cards to consistently kill it, which seems inefficient.
I've got two though, so I'm gonna try them out for the next few days...
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I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.
Originally Posted by Lorgalis What do you think of the potential use of Abyssal Persecutor? In my build I play with Gatekeeper of Malakir and I could add some Cabal Therapies...
hmmm. That is kind of dangerous. what happens if they counter your gatekeeper and/or extirpate it? you hane no way of sacking it. If i was your opponent i would let you keep the persecutor in play until i find my win condition.
thats why he was saying you run therapies as well.
this actualy sounds very appealing to me, running 4xgatekeeper, 4x cabal therapy, 4x abyssal persecutor, 4x tombstaker, 4x dark rits, ect, ect.. innocent blood might be nice too.
I thought about this a few days ago, but upon seeing the prices for persecutor i'm gonna have to wait. i'm only going to buy the foils, and they're rediculious right now. i think it's going to be similar to lotus cobra syndrom.. price should come down soon.
off the top of my head, i might try something like this if/when i get the persecutors..
in fact, this actualy looks really strong. can someone else test this out and report? i just might have to sell my soul to get my set of foil persecutors asap.
1.) Anyone who thinks cancel is viable should be shot. in the face. with a hammer.
2.) You misunderstand, what I was suggesting was the total exclusion of Spellstutter Sprite, because it just isnt that good anymore.
3.) Understand, Dredge is not really a Magic: The Gathering deck. When a card is playable in it, it doesn't mean it's a tournament playable card. It means it's playable in whatever crazy fantasy world that Dredge operates in.
I've never playtested with Vindicate. How does it run with a splash of W? I took my Hypnotic Specters out, because I wasn't happy drawing them late game. Here's my setup:
How's it look? I've tried Tombstalker as a 4 count, but dropped it back down to a 3 count, because I kept getting them early game w/o enough cards to drop them. I do however enjoy dropping a turn 3 Tombstalker. But 3 just feels right to me. Also, I'm intrigued by Vindicate. Very nice card, but I'm worried about mana-fixing, how does it run and are you happy with the results?
As for the abyssal persecutor debate. I'm too worried about changing up the deck too much, which seems like is what's necassary to play him. Maybe it's my ignorance speaking, but I think that as much potential the card has, I think it's not for me.
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Decks
UUU - Go Go Gadget Ninjitsu! (casual) GGG - Beatdown Elves (casual) (G/R)(G/R)(G/R) - Progenitus/Elfball (legacy) BBB - Crucible Pox (legacy) (B/G)(B/G)(B/G) - Eva Green (legacy)
so many 3 drops in my list. and most have to wait till turn 3.
4 hippy, 3 vindicate, 3 doran....:-/
don't get me wrong, i really like doran and vindicate. and i'm not having problems with the mana. i just don't like how the curves been working lately.
i'm playing a small tourny tonight, we'll see what happens.
i really want to get my hands on some persecutors.
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1.) Anyone who thinks cancel is viable should be shot. in the face. with a hammer.
2.) You misunderstand, what I was suggesting was the total exclusion of Spellstutter Sprite, because it just isnt that good anymore.
3.) Understand, Dredge is not really a Magic: The Gathering deck. When a card is playable in it, it doesn't mean it's a tournament playable card. It means it's playable in whatever crazy fantasy world that Dredge operates in.
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I know it's more of an enchantress card, but hey, what the hell right?
UUU - Go Go Gadget Ninjitsu! (casual)
GGG - Beatdown Elves (casual)
(G/R)(G/R)(G/R) - Progenitus/Elfball (legacy)
BBB - Crucible Pox (legacy)
(B/G)(B/G)(B/G) - Eva Green (legacy)
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you're really reaching now.
i'd say no. at least with top and library you could actualy draw a card if needed. granted i've never tested with guile, but i doubt i ever will either. i usualy have a pretty good sense about these things.
I think I should clarify. I wasn't intending on playtesting it either, lol. I was trying to keep the conversation going by offering different options. I'm content with the way the deck list is playing at the moment, but enjoy discussing new ideas regardless of how "off the wall" they may seem, lol. that's all
UUU - Go Go Gadget Ninjitsu! (casual)
GGG - Beatdown Elves (casual)
(G/R)(G/R)(G/R) - Progenitus/Elfball (legacy)
BBB - Crucible Pox (legacy)
(B/G)(B/G)(B/G) - Eva Green (legacy)
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don't ya just love emotion-cons (is that what they're called)?
i've gotta say i let out a laugh when i read this. i'm glad you're likeing the change, but please do me a favor in the future.. actualy test before getting me all hyped up.
i take night classes while working full time. my last long responce about this topic caused me to turn in an assignment late.
have fun, and report back what match ups you face... in which games did they seem to help out or hinder you? when you draw vindicate or doran, think to yourself, would the gamestate be effected possitivly or negitivly if this was still a pulse or shade? personaly i always hated pulse. in all my testing, like 70% of the time i'd want to hit a goyf... but not mine. akward. vindicate being able to hit opposing goyfs and basic lands has been amazing for me.
also, i forgot to mention that i really like running a single murmoring bosk along side doran (you can grab it with a B/G fetch).
edit...
i've been testing a lot vs merfs with my deadguy-ish list. i'm moving the shadow of doubt to the board, and adding the 4th swords and 4th vindicate. i know vindicate is slow, but i'd like to see it more often than not. so i'm gonna try the consistancy of 4. i'll be playing a tourny tomorrow night, so i'll report back then.
i love swords, but not in suicide. snuff out is much better/faster.
infact, after tonight i'm going back to doran sui. bobs were pissing me off all night. combined with little nighthawk, the deck was entirely too slow. though, believe it or not i did whip goblins ass. that was actualy a pretty in depth game three that i just had to play really tight. my opponent made one play errror that i noticed which might have changed things, probably not though.
anyway, (Greeny), you say you like the change.. what have you played against? i'm assuming you're running the hippies, and i'm wondering if i should play nighthawks or hippies. with goyf, stalker and doran, maybe the deathtouching hawk isn't needed? i almost wish i could keep them in the board to swap out, but there just isn't any room.
here's what i'm looking at testing/fiddling with for the next week...
3 doran
3 tombstalker
4 hippy
4 dark rit
2 duress
4 thoughtseize
4 hymn
4 sinkhole
3 vindicate
4 snuff out
4 verdant catacombs
4 marsh flats
2 swamp
3 bayou
4 scrubland
1 murmuring bosk
would it be worth it to drop a marsh flat and scrubland for a basic plains and forest? my guts saying no, but i'm not sure. i really don't like them clogging up my early land drops when i need double black.
maybe -1 duress, -1 hippy, +1 stalker or vindicate, or reanimate..
or -4 hippy, +2 nighthawk +2 gatekeeper? let the testing begins.
problem is i run into a lot of control.
aside from myself (obviously ;)), 5 of the best players around me play tempo thresh, countertop progenitus, team america, landstill, and ichorid. duress's are needed for 4/5 of the decks i'm sure to play. and thats only for the good players. theres still plenty of other guys attempting contol and combo like merfolk, countertop and ANT. plus other randomness like goblins, affinity and zoo.
i was actualy thinking of adding another duress in the board. i also forgot to include the lone terravore. i really enjoy playing it, as it's always a bomb when i draw into it... last night i landed one as a 11/11. of course it's going to be the first thing to get killed, but isn't that the point? all of our guys are big, they can only kill so many creatures. and if they're going to swords my 11/11 (or bigger) terravore, i'll still have a doran stalker or goyf bashing in, along with a much bigger life cushion. and if they don't have the removal ready because they've wasted it on the other creatures, well, i win.
things look pretty tight, but i'll do some tweeking and testing.
I don't mind Terravore, I think he's pretty good.
But the double Green seems like a problem for me.
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NO RUG: Primer
Tempo Thresh: Primer
Doesn't fit with the mana denial theme of the deck.
He'll usually never be bigger than Stalker, and for 1 less mana I can have a flying creature.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig.
NO RUG: Primer
Tempo Thresh: Primer
That doesn't make any sense at all. Your blaming the synergy of Stalker on the fact that you played with Shade?
Personally, if you saved your rituals for Shade instead of Stalker, you were playing the deck wrong.
And Shade is a great beater against control decks, because not only can you play him turn 1 (instead of 3 like Doran) he can potentially take out opponents Goyfs.
I'm not in favor of the White splash, I think it adds too many inconsistencies, and looks like it folds to Tempo Thresh because of the 3 color requirement.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig.
NO RUG: Primer
Tempo Thresh: Primer
I very much mind... I'd much rather have my creature in play and attacking thank you very much. I'm just saying if they don't, they pretty much loose the game due to trample. If they do, it's one less for my other creatures.
thats why i only play it as a singleton. (i actualy stole the idea from a bunch of guys in europe. there were a bunch of eva green lists in the top 8's of several big european events a few months ago, and they all had a single terravore). like 90% of the time you don't draw it until he's useful/you have the double green. one more reason i like running the single bosk.. i have 5 green sources. IF i were to run a basic, that would make 6. playing with 8 fetches doesn't make it that hard to hit double green. seriously, i've been playing it for a while now, and i think there have only been 2 times i couldn't cast him when i wanted- and that was because he was in my opening hand and the rest was too good to mulligan.
tricky... agressivly muligan, play real tight, top deck like a god, and you can get there. most people may think TA has fallen out of light, but it's played by a guy at my shop who pretty much top 8's every major event he goes to. i'll be the first to admit, he's the better player. just like thresh though, he's light on threats. this gives you time to recoup after you're both done disrupting each other.
not at all. again, we have to play tight, but this is not too bad of a match up. play smart... if they play land go, don't break a fetch. all of their burn isn't really significant (don't ever block), and the only threat they have aside from goyf is little mongoose. MAYBE a clique.
Hmm, maybe I'll dust off my Scrublands and try it out.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig.
NO RUG: Primer
Tempo Thresh: Primer
This is not true at all.
How many architypes have you played against in Legacy?
Shade is extremely good against a number of architypes. Any Stax variant. Any control deck.
Not every deck in Legacy plays Burn. And if your shade keeps dying to removal, your either just playing him out there w/o mana up, no matter what the board position, or not even using your other cards to protect him.
Shade is good. He has been proven, and he does work. To just rag on a card because you want to play Doran is not good.
Like I said, I will test the White, but I do not expect it to be nearly as good as just the straight splash. Other than Vindicate, I do not see any warrant in the White splash.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig.
NO RUG: Primer
Tempo Thresh: Primer
"Be self critical, but divorce your sense of self from your play. You can’t let things affect you emotionally, but at the same time you have to really examine your choices, question them, and see what you could have done better."
- Jon Finkel
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Naya Shaman
Legacy
U/W Tempo
Belcher
Countertop Progenitus
Eva Green or Team America, depends on how I'm feeling
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He's worse than Goyf, costs more life, and will just out right die when against a smart player.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig.
NO RUG: Primer
Tempo Thresh: Primer
why is leach any worse?
he's only bad in the same match ups that shade is bad.
no one's saying to run him instead of goyf,
we're just saying you could run it next to goyf, as goyfs 5-6.
it's really not all that bad if you've got an open slot.
Actually, it's strictly worse because of the color requirment.
I've played this deck against enough Blue decks to know that the only reason I should be fetching Green is for Goyf and Goyf alone. There is no reason to open myself up to Goblins or Thresh by fetching a Green land so I can play the under performing Leech.
It just simply shouldn't happen, and that kind of play does not warrant tight play agaisnt a good opponent running a good deck.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig.
NO RUG: Primer
Tempo Thresh: Primer
I have to agree with this point. The only green I run is for Goyf and Pulse. Which each require only a single G. Other than Bayou, I should only be fetching a swamp, to play my BB cards like Sinkhole and shade etc. Leech isn't a bad card in general, but I think he'd set you back a turn in way.
UUU - Go Go Gadget Ninjitsu! (casual)
GGG - Beatdown Elves (casual)
(G/R)(G/R)(G/R) - Progenitus/Elfball (legacy)
BBB - Crucible Pox (legacy)
(B/G)(B/G)(B/G) - Eva Green (legacy)
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however, i've been running 3 for a long time, just because i hate having a dead card in my opening hand (2 stalkers). some would say this isn't a bad thing, but personally just don't like it. this also gives me another open slot in an already tight list.
hmmm. That is kind of dangerous. what happens if they counter your gatekeeper and/or extirpate it? you hane no way of sacking it. If i was your opponent i would let you keep the persecutor in play until i find my win condition.
Thank you mchief111, great sig
Lvl 37 Planeswalker
Current:
Legacy:
:symu::symb::symr::symw::symg: TES | Spiral Tide | MUD | :symu::symb::symg: Lands | Burn | :symr::symbg: Goblins | Elf Combo
Vintage:
:symb::symu: Titan Dredge | :symb::symu::symw: Bomberman
Modern:
:symu::symr: Kiki-Twin | :symr::symg: Tron
Standard:
Wip
EDH:
:symb::symu::symw: Zur
I do think he's worth testing, since against most decks in the format he's a three turn clock, but I have two concerns:
1. Tombstalker is easier to cast without rituals, and without the potential "drawback".
2. He needs to be built around, ie. including enough cards to consistently kill it, which seems inefficient.
I've got two though, so I'm gonna try them out for the next few days...
I am John Galt.
thats why he was saying you run therapies as well.
this actualy sounds very appealing to me, running 4xgatekeeper, 4x cabal therapy, 4x abyssal persecutor, 4x tombstaker, 4x dark rits, ect, ect.. innocent blood might be nice too.
I thought about this a few days ago, but upon seeing the prices for persecutor i'm gonna have to wait. i'm only going to buy the foils, and they're rediculious right now. i think it's going to be similar to lotus cobra syndrom.. price should come down soon.
off the top of my head, i might try something like this if/when i get the persecutors..
4 goyf
4 persecutor
3 tombstalker
4 gatekeeper
2 innocent blood
3 cabal therapy
4 thoughtseize
4 hymn
4 dark rits
4 sinkhole
in fact, this actualy looks really strong. can someone else test this out and report? i just might have to sell my soul to get my set of foil persecutors asap.
I've never playtested with Vindicate. How does it run with a splash of W? I took my Hypnotic Specters out, because I wasn't happy drawing them late game. Here's my setup:
3x Marsh Flats
4x Wasteland
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Bayou
5x Swamp
3x Tombstalker
3x Nantuko Shade
4x Vampire Nighthawk
4x Tarmogoyf
2x Duress
2x Maelstrom Pulse
4x Smother
4x Sinkhole
4x Dark Ritual
4x Thoughtseize
4x Hymn To Tourach
How's it look? I've tried Tombstalker as a 4 count, but dropped it back down to a 3 count, because I kept getting them early game w/o enough cards to drop them. I do however enjoy dropping a turn 3 Tombstalker. But 3 just feels right to me. Also, I'm intrigued by Vindicate. Very nice card, but I'm worried about mana-fixing, how does it run and are you happy with the results?
As for the abyssal persecutor debate. I'm too worried about changing up the deck too much, which seems like is what's necassary to play him. Maybe it's my ignorance speaking, but I think that as much potential the card has, I think it's not for me.
UUU - Go Go Gadget Ninjitsu! (casual)
GGG - Beatdown Elves (casual)
(G/R)(G/R)(G/R) - Progenitus/Elfball (legacy)
BBB - Crucible Pox (legacy)
(B/G)(B/G)(B/G) - Eva Green (legacy)
Visit Maelstrom Graphics for awesome signatures and avatars
so many 3 drops in my list. and most have to wait till turn 3.
4 hippy, 3 vindicate, 3 doran....:-/
don't get me wrong, i really like doran and vindicate. and i'm not having problems with the mana. i just don't like how the curves been working lately.
i'm playing a small tourny tonight, we'll see what happens.
i really want to get my hands on some persecutors.