Deck thinning is insignificant if you only draw three or four cads after t1, but if your deck has a lot of card draw it becomes significant. If your running Reforge you could easily draw 10+ cards post opening, which would make deck thinning meaningful. Anyone wanting to test Reforge should test it with a lot of fetches I think.
Ah - thank you for the clarification, I certainly agree with where you are coming from.
I'm also intrigued by the new draw. For reference:
1R
Instant
Discard your hand, then draw two cards.
Might be superior to Magma Jet despite not dealing damage? Testing will have to tell. It's always a risky premise to spend mana in this deck without dealing damage or seriously disrupting our opponent, but MAYBE this card can be efficient enough to overcome that.
This is a very interesting card.... it's dead the first few turns but then again, you'll have burn to cast the first few turns anyways. Once you get to 1 or 2 cards in hand (including this one), then it could be very useful.
Yeah, I'm probably going to pay attention to how often I'm out of gas or how many cards I have in hand when I win/lose and see if Risky Bet would have made a difference.
The only thing I'm worried about is the awkwardish interaction with Fireblast. You don't want to pitch it, but saccing two Mountains trying to hope for a finisher isn't the best play either. If it's that late in the game though and you EOT Risky Bet into Fireblast, you're likely to topdeck a land and a burn in one of the three cards you draw, hopefully enough to steal the same.
Basically, if you want to open packs to get cards for Standard and Modern, the simpler approach is to just buy all the singles you need and then set some money on fire to make up the difference.
I'm also intrigued by the new draw. For reference:
1R
Instant
Discard your hand, then draw two cards.
Might be superior to Magma Jet despite not dealing damage? Testing will have to tell. It's always a risky premise to spend mana in this deck without dealing damage or seriously disrupting our opponent, but MAYBE this card can be efficient enough to overcome that.
It's interesting. You will reach a point where you have no cards in hand, so it's two mana for two cards. It's efficient enough, but the loss of damage stings a bit.
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"If you don't wear your seatbelt, the police will shoot you in the head."
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
Deck thinning is insignificant if you only draw three or four cads after t1, but if your deck has a lot of card draw it becomes significant. If your running Reforge you could easily draw 10+ cards post opening, which would make deck thinning meaningful. Anyone wanting to test Reforge should test it with a lot of fetches I think.
It takes more than 10 though. Going through 10 is certainly better than going through 3, but it takes going through more like 30 for thinning to have had an impact.
As much as I like the new card, I see it more fitting into combo decks than burn. With devil and possibly thunderous wrath (though I doubt it) your getting higher damage per resolved card, which means you need to play less cards on average, meaning you'll need the draw less. There is really no good spot in the decks mana curve for this because ideally you would not cast this till turn 3 and by turn 3 ideally you can finish them with what you have.
I almost think that if faithless looting can't make the cut, even when it can flush useless lands from your hand and pitch the new ones it does not need, I can't see this 2 mana draw spell which will often do the same see play. Apples and oranges I know, but still some parallels. If just drawing extra cards or looting to squeeze out extra damage was worth it, people would be playing Needle Drop or Flame jab.
I am just excited that burn has a new card. The first in a while (except Chaos Warp in the side).
It should be clear, but Vexing Devil is the only card spoiled so far that is worth playing in Burn.
The new draw card seems like it would improve consistency but it is a trap. Most of the time you would prefer to just draw about any other card in burn when you are top-decking (the only time this card is good).
It takes more than 10 though. Going through 10 is certainly better than going through 3, but it takes going through more like 30 for thinning to have had an impact.
Thinning has an impact on one card. This is about as obvious as math can get. The question is how many cards before the cumulative impact is worth the risk of Stifle (along with the lesser drawback of pinging yourself)? Probably this is meta dependent.
So i assembled this Burn RDW legacy deck for a tournament and was hoping to prepare a sideboard for an unknown meta. The only confirmed decks i know can and will be there (esperswarn stoneforge affinity & elves) and only because my friends will be running those.
>The blasts i chose for anti: hive/pact, combo, control, etc.
>Shatter storm vs affinity (i know there are more efficient cards like shatterspree and smithereens but I own neither.
>Slagstorm I thought would be a good board whipe vs tribals and alternatively a burn player.
>Ratchets, though I only own 2, i have been hearing nothing but praises from you guys in the OP.
Not sure what else to add if not re-proportion things. I don't have money to go and grab anything expensive, but suggestions are welcome.
Also IMO as far as Vexing Devil, people who enjoy Keldon Marauders will enjoy the devils. (though I'd still drop a goblin guide turn 1 over it.) Though I can see them allowed to be played and then sworded or pathed or in mirror just burned. As far as T.Wrath? I can see maybe running a few but max 3 if im feeling super lucky more likely to run 2. Great risk but amazing reward for both of them.
I'm assuming the 2 chain lightning is due to ownership. I would implore you to buy/borrow/steal these. It is the only expensive card in your deck, get a playset.
Cut the Teetering Peaks for Mountains. YOu can't sac them to fireblast and they come into play tapped.
Cut browbeat. It's a long argument, but the card isn't good enough. Replace them with Hellspark Elemental/Keldon Marauders/Figure of Destiny. (whichever you like most) You should be able to pick these up for like a quarter each.
I would personally cut the sideboard Shatterstorm for Smash to Smithereens. It allows you to destroy key artifacts while still dealing damage. Shatterstorm is a bit expensive at 4 mana.
Leline seems useless as a one of. You aren't going to start any games with it, and won't be able to find one before you are too far back to win. Play the graveyard hate over it.
So, this thing ca give haste to Marauders, Devil, and... nothing else but itself really (maybe steppe lynx if you play boros)
I wonder if it'll be of any use
Yea I think with devil and steppe lynx your better off running bushwhacker because of the powerboost, as he also boosts goblin guide. I don't think the card is strong enough for RDWs styled decks in legacy either, let alone burn.
I would not say that Lightning Mauler does nothing in topdeck mode. As long as you control another creature, he gives himself haste. But while I think this will be enough to make him playable in Standard, I don't see him making it into Legacy. At the two drop slot he needs to be better than Keldon Marauders and Hellspark Elemental to make it into the deck. My knee-jerk reaction is "No, he's not."
Cut browbeat. It's a long argument, but the card isn't good enough.
The short version of the argument is this. We need to be as close to 3 damage per mana as we possibly can. I'm working with Bolt effects for now, mainly because I'm on word 83 of a 4000 word essay due in 20 hours time. These are the ratios included mana spent to spend additional spells. I'm skipping free Fireblast due to aforementioned time constraints. Play Browbeat.
Option 1) Opponent takes 5. 1.66:1
Option 2) Draw 3 Bolt effects. 1.5:1
Option 3) Draw 2 Bolt effects, 1 Mountain. 0.83:1
Option 4) Draw 1 Bolt effect, 2 Mountains. 1.33:1
Option 5) Draw 3 Mountains. Next turn, draw a Mountain. 0:1.
Option 6) Draw 3 Mountains. Next turn, draw a Bolt effect.
Magma Jet makes the cut because top deck manipulation helps this deck out so much.
EDH, on the other hand, is more like a monster truck rally. It's more about the spectacle than the race, the games go long, and it's not usually clear who's in the lead until there's only one truck left.*
Single player EDH is like two guys smacking each other with pillows... until one of them pulls out a shotgun.
I would not say that Lightning Mauler does nothing in topdeck mode. As long as you control another creature, he gives himself haste. But while I think this will be enough to make him playable in Standard, I don't see him making it into Legacy. At the two drop slot he needs to be better than Keldon Marauders and Hellspark Elemental to make it into the deck. My knee-jerk reaction is "No, he's not."
I agree, don't think he's good enough to make the cut either. If he was R then it'd be worth discussing but at two mana I really don't have much interest.
Vexing Devil is R for a 4/3 - and though the consensus is he's worth it, it's still a lot of debate. Can't see how to justify 2 cc for a 2/1 with haste IMO.
Actually, the short version of the argument is, "Don't give your opponents choices."
While 5 damage for 3 mana might not be bad when you want it*, and 3 cards for 3 mana might not be bad when you want it, the opponent gets to choose which one is least detrimental for them within the context of a game. And within that context, the chosen option could very well blank the spell.
* Burn, like many decks, has two critical resources: mana and cards. While 5 damage for 3 is a horrible ratio of damage per mana, it's a great ratio of damage per card. The two must be balanced for a Burn deck to be successful. Consider Sonic Seizure: 3 damage per mana, yet it's unusable.
Offering an opponent choices isn't always bad IF the choices all can be made to apply sufficient pressure against the opponent. Browbeat does not make the cut. A card like Gifts Ungiven, however, is a good counterexample of something that clearly can be made to benefit you whatever the opponent chooses.
In my playtesting of Vexing Devil so far, I have found that the choices offered to the opponent usually do work to my favor, regardless of the choice. It does lose play value as the turns advance, but then again so does every creature played in Burn. Playtesting against RUG Delver this afternoon with a friend, I found the Devil indeed better in most situations than Figure of Destiny. Or at least no worse.
I'm assuming the 2 chain lightning is due to ownership. I would implore you to buy/borrow/steal these. It is the only expensive card in your deck, get a playset.
Cut the Teetering Peaks for Mountains. YOu can't sac them to fireblast and they come into play tapped.
Cut browbeat. It's a long argument, but the card isn't good enough. Replace them with Hellspark Elemental/Keldon Marauders/Figure of Destiny. (whichever you like most) You should be able to pick these up for like a quarter each.
I would personally cut the sideboard Shatterstorm for Smash to Smithereens. It allows you to destroy key artifacts while still dealing damage. Shatterstorm is a bit expensive at 4 mana.
Leline seems useless as a one of. You aren't going to start any games with it, and won't be able to find one before you are too far back to win. Play the graveyard hate over it.
This is all very good advice - do what this guy says
I would also mention, I prefer Marauders/Elemental/FoD - in that order.... I'm also not a huge fan of Grim Lavamancer, though I know a lot of people do play him, I personally find him too slow and I like my cards to do <something> when they resolve. That's why I like the Marauders over the rest, though the Devil is making it's case for the second best creature card in burn (I still prefer the Guide more than anything).
For sideboard definitely add graveyard hate or it'll be an auto loss against reanimator. That deck is very strong, but with fairies or crypts you can get rid of Iona and Jin before the get into play.
Most everything else was said above - replace cards like browbeat with more chain lightning, etc, you should be fine.
Best of luck!
Edit: One more thing I forgot to mention - you should be playing mountains, lots and lots of mountains.... I wouldn't even run the fetch lands, that one life can end up being precious in a deck like this. Maybe it's just me, but I've been left at 1-4 life so many times it's feels almost surreal. I think more often than not I'm in that rage, I certainly wouldn't want to be burning through life for fetches - I only run barbarian ring because it can deal 2 dmg that my opponent can't counter. IMO 17 Mountains and 2 Barbarian rings is the magic number, but you could possibly get away with one less mountain depending on your deck and mana curve. In addition, you could just play 19 mountains as well, very popular and a good number for a deck like this.
I'm assuming the 2 chain lightning is due to ownership. I would implore you to buy/borrow/steal these. It is the only expensive card in your deck, get a playset.
Cut the Teetering Peaks for Mountains. YOu can't sac them to fireblast and they come into play tapped.
Cut browbeat. It's a long argument, but the card isn't good enough. Replace them with Hellspark Elemental/Keldon Marauders/Figure of Destiny. (whichever you like most) You should be able to pick these up for like a quarter each.
I would personally cut the sideboard Shatterstorm for Smash to Smithereens. It allows you to destroy key artifacts while still dealing damage. Shatterstorm is a bit expensive at 4 mana.
Leline seems useless as a one of. You aren't going to start any games with it, and won't be able to find one before you are too far back to win. Play the graveyard hate over it.
Yup I currently lack the 2 chains. Ill see what i can do but, money is an issue atm. Btw why is this card like so expensive. Its a strictly worse bolt. I do not see any reason except that its old.
Browbeat not good enough? Ill take your word for it, but.. i'd probably wind up on the other side of that argument. Drawing 3 or they take 5 damage. Didn't seem like a bad deal to me either way even if I net a land or 2. Those would be lands i wont be top decking. But as with most cards the argument is risk vs reward and there are several outcomes that are not as favorable as a guaranteed creature/burn spell. I should have a 3 marauders i can slap in their place. I also have a 4th magma jet if you'd think it'd be worth it.
Its a shame to loose the peeks, especially when you consider them a land drop that auto shocks IF i have a creature out. And seeing as id probably be upping the creature count in deck... i'd almost think they'd be more worth it. But that IF, when i have no creatures id rather not even play it. As far as the crack lands, as long as i'm using lavamancers its almost inefficient not to run them. If you belive in deck thinning it does that, but also it just adds fuel to the graveyard.
I'll try to acquire a playset of smash to smithereens, but since that post I reworked a bit of my sideboard:
this is getting absurd legacy staples arnt getting replaced by strange 4/4 dragons for 4 and browbeat devils everyone needs to to calm down and actually test
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Magic players have made it abundantly clear that their time is worth $0/hour in their opinion, so no sympathy there. -DR jeebus or something
And if u run out of gas, it can give u the late game nope ?
Possibly, but it's incredibly mana inefficient for what it does (not to mention vulnerable to removal, being a creature and all). Burn functions best when every spell/creature is as close to Lightning Bolt as possible, 3 damage for 1 mana. Resolve 7 spells and you win, that's all there is to it.
If you're looking for late game staying power if/when you run out of gas I like running 3x Sulfuric Vortex myself. It'll get you there when you run out of gas and shuts off lifegain as well without ever having to recast it again, all for just 3 mana. It's not quite as efficient as Lightning Bolt, since it usually ends up being 6 damage for 3 mana but it's the best we've got when it comes to efficiency in recurring damage.
Browbeats a good card; I like it a lot. Five for three is a good finisher, and three cards is usually better than any damage we'd get from a single spell (it's not like you're cutting bolt for this).
The trouble with Browbeat is that we can only run so many cc3 cards without upsetting our curve, and Sulfuric Vortex is more important.
About Thunderous wrath, what if playing some Cave-in or Pyrokinesis to make the Wraths in your opening hand useful ?
Pyrokineses doesn't contribute to burn's game plan. At all. Cave-in is fun, and a game winner vs elves, affinity, and other aggro decks. But beyond that it takes too many cards to do too little damage. Basically two red spells do only one damage each. You'd need to top deck TW twice to make up for that.
If you were already running Cave-in, TW would be an auto include. Otherwise I'm sure t would bbe fun to run but probably won't improve consistency or speed up your clock.
this is getting absurd legacy staples arnt getting replaced by strange 4/4 dragons for 4 and browbeat devils everyone needs to to calm down and actually test
To an extent, I have the same feeling. Things like the new planeswalker and now Archwing Dragon are just obviously not good for legacy burn. On the other hand, I think discussion is warranted on some of the new card that feel special and powerful, namely, Vexing Devil, Thunderous Wrath, Refourge the Soul, and Risky Bet. If that discussion leads anywhere, we can narrow our testing. If someone thought all four of these cards were good for burn, they'd have a lot of work to do in testing them all. Knowing, via this discussion, that the Miracles don't work in a deck without heavy library manipulation, we can cut that work in half. Knowing that Figure of Destiny is the obvious replacement for Vexing Devil helps further.
Lastly, remember that you don't want to play suboptimal cards just so you can play suboptimal cards. Doing so not only adds suboptimal cards but adds dependencies, and therefore inconsistency.
And there's a reason talk of Browbeat gets posts deleted on the source. It just doesn't work out in the end, as has been said many times before, and there's simply nothing new to add to the discussion.
Browbeats a good card; I like it a lot. Five for three is a good finisher, and three cards is usually better than any damage we'd get from a single spell (it's not like you're cutting bolt for this).
While 5 damage for 3 mana might not be bad when you want it, and 3 cards for 3 mana might not be bad when you want it, the opponent gets to choose which one is least detrimental for them within the context of a game. And within that context, the chosen option could very well blank the spell.
Lastly, cards like Archwing Dragon don't stand up to my sig. Stop thinking "ooh shiny" for a moment and think about what existing staple you'd be willing to take out for this new card. The sound of crickets tells you that it's not viable.
About Thunderous wrath, what if playing some Cave-in or Pyrokinesis to make the Wraths in your opening hand useful ?
Im a firm believer in not adding bad cards just to use other sub-par cards. Thunderous Wrath is definitely sub par.
Apart from that, I'm play testing the Devil and he's pretty sweet. Unlike Browbeat, both of these can potentially do damage. The only issue I have is he doesn't do damage when he resolves (something I usually build my burn decks around) and is obviously easily dealt with removal but everyone knows that's a poor argument.
Overall I think he's going to have a full time place in my deck, likely at the expense of the hellspark's as the only other card that has any chance of being dead is the Price of Progress. So useless against mono color decks, so absolutely broken against 3-color decks.
Ah - thank you for the clarification, I certainly agree with where you are coming from.
This is a very interesting card.... it's dead the first few turns but then again, you'll have burn to cast the first few turns anyways. Once you get to 1 or 2 cards in hand (including this one), then it could be very useful.
Definitely worth playtesting...
The only thing I'm worried about is the awkwardish interaction with Fireblast. You don't want to pitch it, but saccing two Mountains trying to hope for a finisher isn't the best play either. If it's that late in the game though and you EOT Risky Bet into Fireblast, you're likely to topdeck a land and a burn in one of the three cards you draw, hopefully enough to steal the same.
It's interesting. You will reach a point where you have no cards in hand, so it's two mana for two cards. It's efficient enough, but the loss of damage stings a bit.
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
It takes more than 10 though. Going through 10 is certainly better than going through 3, but it takes going through more like 30 for thinning to have had an impact.
I almost think that if faithless looting can't make the cut, even when it can flush useless lands from your hand and pitch the new ones it does not need, I can't see this 2 mana draw spell which will often do the same see play. Apples and oranges I know, but still some parallels. If just drawing extra cards or looting to squeeze out extra damage was worth it, people would be playing Needle Drop or Flame jab.
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It should be clear, but Vexing Devil is the only card spoiled so far that is worth playing in Burn.
The new draw card seems like it would improve consistency but it is a trap. Most of the time you would prefer to just draw about any other card in burn when you are top-decking (the only time this card is good).
Standard: UWR
Modern: RDW, Twin
Legacy: I am 3 Candelabra of Tawnos from being able to build almost any tier 1 or 1.5 deck. Here are the ones I care about right now:
-Aggro: UWR/RUB/WUB/RUG/UR Delver; Affinity; Burn
-Control: Stoneblade; UWr Miracles; UB Tezzeret
-Combo: Hive Mind; Combo Elves; Omni Tell; T.E.S.
Vintage: Grixis Painter
EDH: Rith, the Awakener
Thinning has an impact on one card. This is about as obvious as math can get. The question is how many cards before the cumulative impact is worth the risk of Stifle (along with the lesser drawback of pinging yourself)? Probably this is meta dependent.
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RUGLegacy Lands.dec
RUGBLegacy Lands.dec
RGLegacy Lands.dec
WUBRG EDH Lands.dec
UBR EDH Artificer Prodigy
B EDH Relentless Rats
I'm assuming the 2 chain lightning is due to ownership. I would implore you to buy/borrow/steal these. It is the only expensive card in your deck, get a playset.
Cut the Teetering Peaks for Mountains. YOu can't sac them to fireblast and they come into play tapped.
Cut browbeat. It's a long argument, but the card isn't good enough. Replace them with Hellspark Elemental/Keldon Marauders/Figure of Destiny. (whichever you like most) You should be able to pick these up for like a quarter each.
I would personally cut the sideboard Shatterstorm for Smash to Smithereens. It allows you to destroy key artifacts while still dealing damage. Shatterstorm is a bit expensive at 4 mana.
Leline seems useless as a one of. You aren't going to start any games with it, and won't be able to find one before you are too far back to win. Play the graveyard hate over it.
Calvin and Hobbes
Cube Tutor
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BurnR(Legacy)
ReanimatorUB(Legacy)
Ghave, Guru of SporesWGB(Commander)
HumansRW(Standard)
The short version of the argument is this. We need to be as close to 3 damage per mana as we possibly can. I'm working with Bolt effects for now, mainly because I'm on word 83 of a 4000 word essay due in 20 hours time. These are the ratios included mana spent to spend additional spells. I'm skipping free Fireblast due to aforementioned time constraints.
Play Browbeat.
Option 1) Opponent takes 5. 1.66:1
Option 2) Draw 3 Bolt effects. 1.5:1
Option 3) Draw 2 Bolt effects, 1 Mountain. 0.83:1
Option 4) Draw 1 Bolt effect, 2 Mountains. 1.33:1
Option 5) Draw 3 Mountains. Next turn, draw a Mountain. 0:1.
Option 6) Draw 3 Mountains. Next turn, draw a Bolt effect.
Magma Jet makes the cut because top deck manipulation helps this deck out so much.
On building a Celestial Kirin Stax EDH:
I agree, don't think he's good enough to make the cut either. If he was R then it'd be worth discussing but at two mana I really don't have much interest.
Vexing Devil is R for a 4/3 - and though the consensus is he's worth it, it's still a lot of debate. Can't see how to justify 2 cc for a 2/1 with haste IMO.
Actually, the short version of the argument is, "Don't give your opponents choices."
While 5 damage for 3 mana might not be bad when you want it*, and 3 cards for 3 mana might not be bad when you want it, the opponent gets to choose which one is least detrimental for them within the context of a game. And within that context, the chosen option could very well blank the spell.
* Burn, like many decks, has two critical resources: mana and cards. While 5 damage for 3 is a horrible ratio of damage per mana, it's a great ratio of damage per card. The two must be balanced for a Burn deck to be successful. Consider Sonic Seizure: 3 damage per mana, yet it's unusable.
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
In my playtesting of Vexing Devil so far, I have found that the choices offered to the opponent usually do work to my favor, regardless of the choice. It does lose play value as the turns advance, but then again so does every creature played in Burn. Playtesting against RUG Delver this afternoon with a friend, I found the Devil indeed better in most situations than Figure of Destiny. Or at least no worse.
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ReanimatorUB(Legacy)
Ghave, Guru of SporesWGB(Commander)
HumansRW(Standard)
This is all very good advice - do what this guy says
I would also mention, I prefer Marauders/Elemental/FoD - in that order.... I'm also not a huge fan of Grim Lavamancer, though I know a lot of people do play him, I personally find him too slow and I like my cards to do <something> when they resolve. That's why I like the Marauders over the rest, though the Devil is making it's case for the second best creature card in burn (I still prefer the Guide more than anything).
For sideboard definitely add graveyard hate or it'll be an auto loss against reanimator. That deck is very strong, but with fairies or crypts you can get rid of Iona and Jin before the get into play.
Most everything else was said above - replace cards like browbeat with more chain lightning, etc, you should be fine.
Best of luck!
Edit: One more thing I forgot to mention - you should be playing mountains, lots and lots of mountains.... I wouldn't even run the fetch lands, that one life can end up being precious in a deck like this. Maybe it's just me, but I've been left at 1-4 life so many times it's feels almost surreal. I think more often than not I'm in that rage, I certainly wouldn't want to be burning through life for fetches - I only run barbarian ring because it can deal 2 dmg that my opponent can't counter. IMO 17 Mountains and 2 Barbarian rings is the magic number, but you could possibly get away with one less mountain depending on your deck and mana curve. In addition, you could just play 19 mountains as well, very popular and a good number for a deck like this.
Yup I currently lack the 2 chains. Ill see what i can do but, money is an issue atm. Btw why is this card like so expensive. Its a strictly worse bolt. I do not see any reason except that its old.
Browbeat not good enough? Ill take your word for it, but.. i'd probably wind up on the other side of that argument. Drawing 3 or they take 5 damage. Didn't seem like a bad deal to me either way even if I net a land or 2. Those would be lands i wont be top decking. But as with most cards the argument is risk vs reward and there are several outcomes that are not as favorable as a guaranteed creature/burn spell. I should have a 3 marauders i can slap in their place. I also have a 4th magma jet if you'd think it'd be worth it.
Its a shame to loose the peeks, especially when you consider them a land drop that auto shocks IF i have a creature out. And seeing as id probably be upping the creature count in deck... i'd almost think they'd be more worth it. But that IF, when i have no creatures id rather not even play it. As far as the crack lands, as long as i'm using lavamancers its almost inefficient not to run them. If you belive in deck thinning it does that, but also it just adds fuel to the graveyard.
I'll try to acquire a playset of smash to smithereens, but since that post I reworked a bit of my sideboard:
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Echoing Ruin (not instant, but can take out multiple arts for 2, even art lands)
2 Brittle Effigy Iona and other unburnables.
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Pyroblast
3 Slagstorm
[i]Legacy:[/i]
UBW Affinity
RRR Burn
WWW Death and Taxes
[i]EDH:[/i]
UUU Azami's High Tide Wizards
0R0 Daretti's Staxheep
URG Animar Combo
WUBRG Progenitus Superfriends
WWGSissay's Sissies
[i] Tiny Leaders EDH
1RR Chandra Burn
RBW Alesha's Aristocrats & Taxes
UUU Kira's Merfolk Cult
GGG Ezuri's Elfball
Magic players have made it abundantly clear that their time is worth $0/hour in their opinion, so no sympathy there. -DR jeebus or something
Possibly, but it's incredibly mana inefficient for what it does (not to mention vulnerable to removal, being a creature and all). Burn functions best when every spell/creature is as close to Lightning Bolt as possible, 3 damage for 1 mana. Resolve 7 spells and you win, that's all there is to it.
If you're looking for late game staying power if/when you run out of gas I like running 3x Sulfuric Vortex myself. It'll get you there when you run out of gas and shuts off lifegain as well without ever having to recast it again, all for just 3 mana. It's not quite as efficient as Lightning Bolt, since it usually ends up being 6 damage for 3 mana but it's the best we've got when it comes to efficiency in recurring damage.
The trouble with Browbeat is that we can only run so many cc3 cards without upsetting our curve, and Sulfuric Vortex is more important.
Pyrokineses doesn't contribute to burn's game plan. At all. Cave-in is fun, and a game winner vs elves, affinity, and other aggro decks. But beyond that it takes too many cards to do too little damage. Basically two red spells do only one damage each. You'd need to top deck TW twice to make up for that.
If you were already running Cave-in, TW would be an auto include. Otherwise I'm sure t would bbe fun to run but probably won't improve consistency or speed up your clock.
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RUGLegacy Lands.dec
RUGBLegacy Lands.dec
RGLegacy Lands.dec
WUBRG EDH Lands.dec
UBR EDH Artificer Prodigy
B EDH Relentless Rats
To an extent, I have the same feeling. Things like the new planeswalker and now Archwing Dragon are just obviously not good for legacy burn. On the other hand, I think discussion is warranted on some of the new card that feel special and powerful, namely, Vexing Devil, Thunderous Wrath, Refourge the Soul, and Risky Bet. If that discussion leads anywhere, we can narrow our testing. If someone thought all four of these cards were good for burn, they'd have a lot of work to do in testing them all. Knowing, via this discussion, that the Miracles don't work in a deck without heavy library manipulation, we can cut that work in half. Knowing that Figure of Destiny is the obvious replacement for Vexing Devil helps further.
For example, re: Cave-In/Pyrokinesis:
And there's a reason talk of Browbeat gets posts deleted on the source. It just doesn't work out in the end, as has been said many times before, and there's simply nothing new to add to the discussion.
Lastly, cards like Archwing Dragon don't stand up to my sig. Stop thinking "ooh shiny" for a moment and think about what existing staple you'd be willing to take out for this new card. The sound of crickets tells you that it's not viable.
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
Im a firm believer in not adding bad cards just to use other sub-par cards. Thunderous Wrath is definitely sub par.
Apart from that, I'm play testing the Devil and he's pretty sweet. Unlike Browbeat, both of these can potentially do damage. The only issue I have is he doesn't do damage when he resolves (something I usually build my burn decks around) and is obviously easily dealt with removal but everyone knows that's a poor argument.
Overall I think he's going to have a full time place in my deck, likely at the expense of the hellspark's as the only other card that has any chance of being dead is the Price of Progress. So useless against mono color decks, so absolutely broken against 3-color decks.