They should also ban Jitte, if you ask me. The problem is that Top should be run by ANY COLOR that plans to play control. These being so ubiquitous is its downfall.
Jitte to a much lesser extent is also rather omnipresent, but it's not going to appear all over at least, as long as affinity is still around.
The top banning seems similar to what happened to brainstorm in Vintage- it's the card's ubiquity and game-slowing effects that are the problems. Sitting waiting for your opponent to finish making Top/Brainstorm decisions each turn is incredibly boring and when the card goes in pretty much every control deck it's an un-fun experience that you'll have to face all day.
Good decision I think... shame I picked up my playset 2 weeks ago in preparation for new season...
Imo Top got the axe because wizards saw an opportunity to diversify what would have been a stale format of decks from last season which were absurd. In preparation for the season now that NLB is dead I predict UW Tron affinity dragonstorm dredge and random aggro along with some slow control deck to make the top tier making everything even faster. Altogether a huge but logical choice by the DCI.
there's nothing wrong with counterbalance by itself, or the top, by itself. I can see why they got rid of the top; its hard to destroy/impossible (tap and return it to library) its a reusable brainstorm, but personally, I would have liked to have seen Counterbalance banned, since it was the actual Counter engine. But now, you can't use Top just by itself, which is what I was doing
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there's nothing wrong with counterbalance by itself, or the top, by itself. I can see why they got rid of the top; its hard to destroy/impossible (tap and return it to library) its a reusable brainstorm, but personally, I would have liked to have seen Counterbalance banned, since it was the actual Counter engine. But now, you can't use Top just by itself, which is what I was doing
And everyone was doing it too, so it got the UH Shaft.
Imo Top got the axe because wizards saw an opportunity to diversify what would have been a stale format of decks from last season which were absurd. In preparation for the season now that NLB is dead I predict UW Tron affinity dragonstorm dredge and random aggro along with some slow control deck to make the top tier making everything even faster. Altogether a huge but logical choice by the DCI.
enjoy your combo deck thats a turn slower than mine...:rolleyes:
They knew I spent all of Sunday playtesting with post-rotation NLU, that's why they banned it.
This does a lot of things to some pretty prominent decks in the format, so get ready for this shake up.
I have to rewrite part of my article now, what wake of wizadry is this?
Oh snap! Guess who's playing TEPS when extended rolls around (not like I wasn't going to anyway, but without CBTop, and the fact that TEPS smashes affinity, AND the fact TEPS is about as cheap as they come in terms of money, maybe TEPS will become the new dredge?)
But seriously, hooray.
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I'm almost certain the ban is entirely related to the fact the card makes every tournament round last an eternity. This is also the reason why they banned the only mini that was ever banned in Dreamblade: Kitsune. It made every game last freaking forever.
It might also be a preemptive ban due to the following interesting Orb of Insight fact: Shards of Alara has the word 'shuffle' 16 times in it. Maybe an interesting/powerful new mechanic that would make the Top even more ludicrously good and/or responsible for slowing down the game.
Was it really THAT big of a problem? I guess that with creating everything with creatures in Lorwyn and with this, is Wizards REALLY trying to cockblock control from doing ANYTHING nowadays?
It's the senseless amount of time wasted by inefficient/bad players when looking under the top... it's prob. even money that top is unbanned once fetchlands leave extended.
Yeah, SDT was a blessing for Red, Green, and White mages. It offered them the ability to control their draws, something Blue and Black was good at. But the degenerative Counterbalance decks cause this little gem to be looked at closely. SDT I will miss you in my decks.
What i dont understand is why they would ban top instead cb. Top can be usefully out side of the combo were cb cant. I just cant understand it??????
Because Counterbalance requires double blue and is harder to fetch, meanwhile Top fits in every deck and makes alot of cards more powerful. Counterbalance, Fetchlands, Dark Confidant (basically neutering its disadvantage). Counterbalance is not the broken card in the combo, on its own it does not do alot. Ask iny countertop player ; if they can only have one of the two cards (cbalance or top) in play, which one would they pick? Without any effects to abuse it even, Top effectively increases your hand size by three.
Also, banning Top allows them to print decent deck manipulation and card draw for 1 and 2 mana. With an Artifact themed Shard in the new block, I can see a top alternative potentially. Something like Scroll Rack maybe (not a direct reprint, it would probably be too powerful. But a Scroll Rack with X in its activation cost would be fine. X : Set aside X cards, draw X cards, put the set aside cards on top.) Or maybe X : Look at the top X cards of your library, you may then shuffle your library.
Anyways. Being an artifact that nearly every deck runs that costs 1 mana and provides so much card advanatge and synnergy with so many already playable cards really hinders design space.
I haven't seen anyone point out that aside from being full of tricks, SDT is also a great target for the unbanned tutor Trinket Mage between seasons of Extended.
Counterbalance is a coin flip card without some deck-stacking enabler on its side. SDT is an enabler in a number of decks, in addition to breaking the back of Counterbalance; Counterbalance with SDT runs the risk of being an unstoppable Chant Lock that also fixes your draws in the process. Counterbalance also has the benefit of stopping up any break in the combo by revealing a 3cc spell to counter the likes of Krosan Grip, an otherwise uncounterable spell (only on a coin toss, but it is still possible nonetheless).
Confidant interaction is a mediocre bonus; NLU was primed to be THE DECK in Extended next season. I'm sure timing issues with top also had something to do with it.
Yeah, SDT was a blessing for Red, Green, and White mages. It offered them the ability to control their draws, something Blue and Black was good at. But the degenerative Counterbalance decks cause this little gem to be looked at closely. SDT I will miss you in my decks.
Is there a non-blue deck other than TNN that plays top in extended?
Ever since Timespiral block has come out Wizards has continued to head in the wrong direction. The first thing I disliked was the future sight cards with different boarders (this made me feel like I wasn't playing magic anymore but some other ccg knock-off like yu-gi-oh), not to mention the printing of a type 2 card reading 1G for a powerhouse in nearly every format. The card itself wasn't the problem for me but the effect it had on the market of mtg cards, since when has a t2 card you could easily crack in a booster any day of the week go for more than a underground sea?!?!? I thought this was ridiculous.. and now Tarmogoyf is at an all time low 80+ for a playset... Wizards didn't stop there, the printing of bitterblossom, ok sure a great card for type 2/ block players but again at it's peak, going for more than a tiaga. I honestly could care less about the price of bitterblossom, I am truely a legacy player and bitterblossom will never see play in the legacy format unless wizards continues to down the road of corruption by banning every single card that has made every single deck amazing in one game or another; Lion's eye diamond will probly be next...
Even drafting has changed with the lastest set, Eventide by cutting the size of the set, Wizards has also cut back on some of the "uneeded jank-ier cards" fillers used to balance out packs, in turn making regular packs of Eventide on average containing more than half of what one may call better picks or playables. You would think this would be better ya? But all it takes is one guy to pick up every single fill in the blank clout of dominus and riverfall mimic that is passed to them and they have a 5/5 shroud unblockable haster swinging at you every turn starting on turn 3. On average, games last 5 minutes with triple eventide b/w me and my friends, Wizards has really taken out the strategy or "fun" at least I used to enjoy while drafting.
Now with this new set shards of alarah or however you spell it, Wizards is coming out with a new rarity, MYSTIC RARE, OMG i feel like I'm playing yu-gi-oh all over again! WHY?!?!?!? not to mention there's suppost to be only 14 cards per pack and 1 basic land. What I think is the funniest thing about it all Wizards is using the excuse, "O well all CCGs except mtg, use a standard system of 4 different rarities" QUICK QUESTION, what CCG has been around since 1993 and continually grows in popularity every single year? What CCG do other CCGs try to copy in hopes to make a new hit? Wizards says alot of what they do is to lure a new crowd, make it easy for people just starting to have access to older formats including legacy! (I mean I've heard things along the lines of Wizards will be re-printing fetch lands in 11th edition...). If they are new players why would Wizards try to get them geared for legacy? Wizards hates legacy players, why? because we got all the cards we need already, we don't buy new product often. Unless that is they keep re-printing a "goyf-like" card in every new set they come out with. I just don't aggree with many things Wizards has done, and finally I come to the banning of TOP! in extended! HAH well I like most players love blue, and if wizards is banning just a good card I mean the most you can run is 4 in one deck and typically if you get one, you usually come upon another one, and tops don't get bonuses for having two, they are pretty much dead draws after the first... Not to mention you don't always start with one in your openning hand, many times one must trinket mage search for one or get it some other way. So ya, I don't think I'll even bother trying to get cards for this extended season, I may just quit altogether... at least take a long-needed break from mtg. (also I have to add i have a playset of foiled tops, they at one time could sell for $80+)...
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The DCI doesn't ban cards without having a very good reason behind them. I really don't want to read your wall of text fully, but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have been fun to play in Extended if the top was legal for this upcoming season.
I do agree that many of the cards in standard are inflated in price.
I have to agree with wizards on this one. I was extremely of certain decks being reduced to unplayable because of one combo. Now I think they should have restricted Top instead of Ban. But if wizards belives it needs banned due to whatever may be coming in Shards. Then its there call.
Seems like a very good choice. After that GP that Fabiano won we was quoted to say every deck should replace one land with a SDT, cause you would keep a one land with SDT just as likely as a two land hand. That shows just how powerful the card is. unfortunatly alot of my decks aren't legal on mtgo anymore...
Now that I've calmed down, I honestly can't wait for Friday (Or Thursday night) so I can read WHY they banned this beautiful artifact. I feel it was not as broken as many people claim it to be, granted it let you have an extra three cards in your hand, but only virtually. You can only HAVE one of those cards.
...However, this may go into speculation as a thought. Feel free to quote me, but Alara will have an artifact subtheme, and have something akin to Modular somewhere in it. I am aware, Modular does not show up in the orb, but I have a sneaking suspicion that we will see Modular again. So with all the artifact insanity in Alara going on, with possible Helm of Awakening-esque effect and Magus of the Future in the same extended (Hell, even Future Sight is still legal) Is wizards being early in a nix'ing of a SenseiSensei in Extended?
Now that I've calmed down, I honestly can't wait for Friday (Or Thursday night) so I can read WHY they banned this beautiful artifact. I feel it was not as broken as many people claim it to be, granted it let you have an extra three cards in your hand, but only virtually. You can only HAVE one of those cards.
While I can see where you're coming from, I believe Wizards banned Top because of 5 major reasons:
- It's way too powerful when combined with Counterbalance. With the correct curve in your deck, you can shut down most decks in the format. Storm decks are rendered useless because of this combo, aggro decks might as well just pack it in, and control decks become seriously handicapped against it.
- It's ridiculous with shuffling effects, especially with fetchlands still legal in Extended.
- Anyone can play it. A criterion for banning a card is when the vast majority of the metagame plays that card.
- It's impossible to kill unless you pack Krosan Grip. Sensei's Divining Top might as well say it's indestructible because it is THAT hard to get rid of.
- Time constraints in tournaments. It's an absolute nightmare for TOs when both players are using the top and they're packing a full suite of fetchlands and other shuffle effects. It makes these matches in tournaments stretch far too long.
Jitte to a much lesser extent is also rather omnipresent, but it's not going to appear all over at least, as long as affinity is still around.
RIP Locket Rocket too.
Good decision I think... shame I picked up my playset 2 weeks ago in preparation for new season...
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And everyone was doing it too, so it got the UH Shaft.
enjoy your combo deck thats a turn slower than mine...:rolleyes:
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This does a lot of things to some pretty prominent decks in the format, so get ready for this shake up.
I have to rewrite part of my article now, what wake of wizadry is this?
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It might also be a preemptive ban due to the following interesting Orb of Insight fact: Shards of Alara has the word 'shuffle' 16 times in it. Maybe an interesting/powerful new mechanic that would make the Top even more ludicrously good and/or responsible for slowing down the game.
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Was it really THAT big of a problem? I guess that with creating everything with creatures in Lorwyn and with this, is Wizards REALLY trying to cockblock control from doing ANYTHING nowadays?
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Because Counterbalance requires double blue and is harder to fetch, meanwhile Top fits in every deck and makes alot of cards more powerful. Counterbalance, Fetchlands, Dark Confidant (basically neutering its disadvantage). Counterbalance is not the broken card in the combo, on its own it does not do alot. Ask iny countertop player ; if they can only have one of the two cards (cbalance or top) in play, which one would they pick? Without any effects to abuse it even, Top effectively increases your hand size by three.
Also, banning Top allows them to print decent deck manipulation and card draw for 1 and 2 mana. With an Artifact themed Shard in the new block, I can see a top alternative potentially. Something like Scroll Rack maybe (not a direct reprint, it would probably be too powerful. But a Scroll Rack with X in its activation cost would be fine. X : Set aside X cards, draw X cards, put the set aside cards on top.) Or maybe X : Look at the top X cards of your library, you may then shuffle your library.
Anyways. Being an artifact that nearly every deck runs that costs 1 mana and provides so much card advanatge and synnergy with so many already playable cards really hinders design space.
Counterbalance is a coin flip card without some deck-stacking enabler on its side. SDT is an enabler in a number of decks, in addition to breaking the back of Counterbalance; Counterbalance with SDT runs the risk of being an unstoppable Chant Lock that also fixes your draws in the process. Counterbalance also has the benefit of stopping up any break in the combo by revealing a 3cc spell to counter the likes of Krosan Grip, an otherwise uncounterable spell (only on a coin toss, but it is still possible nonetheless).
Confidant interaction is a mediocre bonus; NLU was primed to be THE DECK in Extended next season. I'm sure timing issues with top also had something to do with it.
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Is there a non-blue deck other than TNN that plays top in extended?
G/B Deathcloud with Planeswalkers plays top. Great synergy with Liliana Vess and Deathcloud itself.
Even drafting has changed with the lastest set, Eventide by cutting the size of the set, Wizards has also cut back on some of the "uneeded jank-ier cards" fillers used to balance out packs, in turn making regular packs of Eventide on average containing more than half of what one may call better picks or playables. You would think this would be better ya? But all it takes is one guy to pick up every single fill in the blank clout of dominus and riverfall mimic that is passed to them and they have a 5/5 shroud unblockable haster swinging at you every turn starting on turn 3. On average, games last 5 minutes with triple eventide b/w me and my friends, Wizards has really taken out the strategy or "fun" at least I used to enjoy while drafting.
Now with this new set shards of alarah or however you spell it, Wizards is coming out with a new rarity, MYSTIC RARE, OMG i feel like I'm playing yu-gi-oh all over again! WHY?!?!?!? not to mention there's suppost to be only 14 cards per pack and 1 basic land. What I think is the funniest thing about it all Wizards is using the excuse, "O well all CCGs except mtg, use a standard system of 4 different rarities" QUICK QUESTION, what CCG has been around since 1993 and continually grows in popularity every single year? What CCG do other CCGs try to copy in hopes to make a new hit? Wizards says alot of what they do is to lure a new crowd, make it easy for people just starting to have access to older formats including legacy! (I mean I've heard things along the lines of Wizards will be re-printing fetch lands in 11th edition...). If they are new players why would Wizards try to get them geared for legacy? Wizards hates legacy players, why? because we got all the cards we need already, we don't buy new product often. Unless that is they keep re-printing a "goyf-like" card in every new set they come out with. I just don't aggree with many things Wizards has done, and finally I come to the banning of TOP! in extended! HAH well I like most players love blue, and if wizards is banning just a good card I mean the most you can run is 4 in one deck and typically if you get one, you usually come upon another one, and tops don't get bonuses for having two, they are pretty much dead draws after the first... Not to mention you don't always start with one in your openning hand, many times one must trinket mage search for one or get it some other way. So ya, I don't think I'll even bother trying to get cards for this extended season, I may just quit altogether... at least take a long-needed break from mtg. (also I have to add i have a playset of foiled tops, they at one time could sell for $80+)...
Extended - Gifts Rock
Legacy - UGRW Stax // SI
The DCI doesn't ban cards without having a very good reason behind them. I really don't want to read your wall of text fully, but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have been fun to play in Extended if the top was legal for this upcoming season.
I do agree that many of the cards in standard are inflated in price.
...However, this may go into speculation as a thought. Feel free to quote me, but Alara will have an artifact subtheme, and have something akin to Modular somewhere in it. I am aware, Modular does not show up in the orb, but I have a sneaking suspicion that we will see Modular again. So with all the artifact insanity in Alara going on, with possible Helm of Awakening-esque effect and Magus of the Future in the same extended (Hell, even Future Sight is still legal) Is wizards being early in a nix'ing of a SenseiSensei in Extended?
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While I can see where you're coming from, I believe Wizards banned Top because of 5 major reasons:
- It's way too powerful when combined with Counterbalance. With the correct curve in your deck, you can shut down most decks in the format. Storm decks are rendered useless because of this combo, aggro decks might as well just pack it in, and control decks become seriously handicapped against it.
- It's ridiculous with shuffling effects, especially with fetchlands still legal in Extended.
- Anyone can play it. A criterion for banning a card is when the vast majority of the metagame plays that card.
- It's impossible to kill unless you pack Krosan Grip. Sensei's Divining Top might as well say it's indestructible because it is THAT hard to get rid of.
- Time constraints in tournaments. It's an absolute nightmare for TOs when both players are using the top and they're packing a full suite of fetchlands and other shuffle effects. It makes these matches in tournaments stretch far too long.