Falkenrath Noble and I don't think it's particularly close.
Wait, what?
You do know that GW humans is the best archtype in the format, right? And Parish is one of the best rares for it, right?
Not saying Champ is the right call, just saying that you're just wrong when you say "not close."
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You do know that GW humans is the best archtype in the format, right? And Parish is one of the best rares for it, right?
Not saying Champ is the right call, just saying that you're just wrong when you say "not close."
I disagree. Champion of the Parish is not one of the best rares for GW in Innistrad limited. If we were to include mythics, it wouldn't even make the top 10. In fact, dollars aside, there are at least 3-4 commons I'd pick over Champ. I'd say that he's about a 4th-6th pick.
I do agree that "not close" is an unfair assessment. I think I'd consider taking Bonds of Faith over Falkenrath Noble in P1P1. I'm pretty sure I've done it before too.
The only black card is, unfortunately, Altar's Reap.
Whatcha diggin'?
I think you probably go chapel geist. It's the best card, so it has that going for it. Spider spawning is way too speculative here, as is tome. The fact that I just passed a mystics is a bit annoying, here but would not be THE determining factor of taking it vs. passing it -- I mean, it's early.
I don't like moving in on pitchburn devils at this point, just because there are like 10,000 five drops in this format, and the better red decks don't like to play very many of them anyways. I mean, the card is very good, and it has its uses, but I would rather take probably the best white aggro card and see what happens.
At this point we're pretty much ignoring twin, because I don't think I'm taking alter's recap here
Elder, both are great but the elder just slaughters opponents. It puts your opponent in a position of block/don't block for every creature you attack with. It's also slightly less vulnerable to removal than the test subject.
Elder of Laurels is good too, but the big problem with it is that you sometimes won't have enough creatures in play. Four mana is a lot to pay for pump, so you won't usually break the game if you're only getting +2/+2.
Ludevic's Test Subject is worse against Bonds of Faith, Avacynican Priest, Claustrophobia and (to some extent) Typhoid Rats, but it makes up for all that by being able to steal games out of nowhere with a comparatively small mana investment. The capacity to add two counters on your opponent's EOT and then untap and add the other three means you almost never get horrendous tempo-wasting blowouts when the opponent has an answer.
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I might overvalue the Werewolf mechanic, but in Green, I like having ways to spend my mana on something useful without playing a spell. Attaching Equipment, Darkthicket Wolf, and especially Elder of Laurels.
In my experience, I don't like Ludevic's Test Subject as much. You want to be in mainly Blue (not splash) to use it and it seems very vulnerable. I know that both creatures have the same toughness.
I have a friend who is a great player who had a chance to level up his Subject and swing for the win vs. a UWr player but he was wary of the 2 cards in his opponent's hand, so he played 1 more creature to apply pressure. Well the guy topdecked Devil's Play and won, not knowing that he and his 2 lands in hand were dead to the Subject potentially. Now I know people here will say it was a play mistake, which it is, but the Subject makes some really tough decisions that can be wrong just by what an opponent draws.
I've never seen an Elder of Laurels yet, but it seems pretty bombish.
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In my experience, I don't like Ludevic's Test Subject as much. You want to be in mainly Blue (not splash) to use it and it seems very vulnerable. I know that both creatures have the same toughness.
I have a friend who is a great player who had a chance to level up his Subject and swing for the win vs. a UWr player but he was wary of the 2 cards in his opponent's hand, so he played 1 more creature to apply pressure. Well the guy topdecked Devil's Play and won, not knowing that he and his 2 lands in hand were dead to the Subject potentially. Now I know people here will say it was a play mistake, which it is, but the Subject makes some really tough decisions that can be wrong just by what an opponent draws.
I've never seen an Elder of Laurels yet, but it seems pretty bombish.
Yeah, I would take elder. It's just better. The thing is, by the time you're spending 12 mana, you could probably have played basically any finisher in the format. Elder is a much more interesting, unique effect that no other card will provide for you.
Also, I don't like taking something THAT mana intensive so early if I can avoid it.
(I think the pick is easily Juggernaut, but I wanted to pose the question).
I'm surprised people value Juggernaut as much or more than myself.
I think you can pick Juggernaut and stay out of colors early but Falkenrath Noble is pretty awesome too. I probably would take a while to make the pick but in the end pick Juggernaut mainly because I like him in the types of decks I play in Limited.
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I like me some Juggernaut, but I'd go with the Noble here. Both are good, and Juggs keeps me from committing to a color, but I don't like that he has to attack and may well not untap during critical turns if you've got a skilled opponent, and Noble stays active through a good chunk of the removal in the format. Also, it helps that black tends to be underdrafted at my LGS.
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I'd take the Juggernaut. I don't think he's quite on the same power level as the Noble, but close to it. However, there's almost a 100% chance you'll play him, and this early on, there is a chance you won't play Black. You're also sending a strong suggestion to the players on the left to play black, which could pay huge dividends in P2.
If it was P2P1 and I was in Black, I'd probably take the Noble.
I'd probably take the Noble over the Juggernaut, but it would be close. The Noble's life draining ability is more powerful than it first appears, because every combat trade is a 2-point life swing, and he beats down for 2 a turn in the air.
I would go with the Gang, you can splash for it and if you do go red, the removal is better than blacks removal.
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Wait, what?
You do know that GW humans is the best archtype in the format, right? And Parish is one of the best rares for it, right?
Not saying Champ is the right call, just saying that you're just wrong when you say "not close."
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Well, parish works great in a extremly human deck, but getting those together are pretty difficult.
Because GW humans might be the best archtype in the format , its also the most obvious archtype in the format. A lot of people try to draft it.
On avg, falkenrath is much much more effective.
Its even splashable
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I disagree. Champion of the Parish is not one of the best rares for GW in Innistrad limited. If we were to include mythics, it wouldn't even make the top 10. In fact, dollars aside, there are at least 3-4 commons I'd pick over Champ. I'd say that he's about a 4th-6th pick.
I do agree that "not close" is an unfair assessment. I think I'd consider taking Bonds of Faith over Falkenrath Noble in P1P1. I'm pretty sure I've done it before too.
Pitchburn Devils
Chapel Geist
Ulvenwald Mystics
Spider Spawning
Curse of the Bloody Tome
The only black card is, unfortunately, Altar's Reap.
Whatcha diggin'?
I think you probably go chapel geist. It's the best card, so it has that going for it. Spider spawning is way too speculative here, as is tome. The fact that I just passed a mystics is a bit annoying, here but would not be THE determining factor of taking it vs. passing it -- I mean, it's early.
I don't like moving in on pitchburn devils at this point, just because there are like 10,000 five drops in this format, and the better red decks don't like to play very many of them anyways. I mean, the card is very good, and it has its uses, but I would rather take probably the best white aggro card and see what happens.
At this point we're pretty much ignoring twin, because I don't think I'm taking alter's recap here
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Elder, both are great but the elder just slaughters opponents. It puts your opponent in a position of block/don't block for every creature you attack with. It's also slightly less vulnerable to removal than the test subject.
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Elder of Laurels is good too, but the big problem with it is that you sometimes won't have enough creatures in play. Four mana is a lot to pay for pump, so you won't usually break the game if you're only getting +2/+2.
Ludevic's Test Subject is worse against Bonds of Faith, Avacynican Priest, Claustrophobia and (to some extent) Typhoid Rats, but it makes up for all that by being able to steal games out of nowhere with a comparatively small mana investment. The capacity to add two counters on your opponent's EOT and then untap and add the other three means you almost never get horrendous tempo-wasting blowouts when the opponent has an answer.
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
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<Limited Clan>
I have a friend who is a great player who had a chance to level up his Subject and swing for the win vs. a UWr player but he was wary of the 2 cards in his opponent's hand, so he played 1 more creature to apply pressure. Well the guy topdecked Devil's Play and won, not knowing that he and his 2 lands in hand were dead to the Subject potentially. Now I know people here will say it was a play mistake, which it is, but the Subject makes some really tough decisions that can be wrong just by what an opponent draws.
I've never seen an Elder of Laurels yet, but it seems pretty bombish.
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Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Yeah, I would take elder. It's just better. The thing is, by the time you're spending 12 mana, you could probably have played basically any finisher in the format. Elder is a much more interesting, unique effect that no other card will provide for you.
Also, I don't like taking something THAT mana intensive so early if I can avoid it.
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(I think the pick is easily Juggernaut, but I wanted to pose the question).
I'm surprised people value Juggernaut as much or more than myself.
I think you can pick Juggernaut and stay out of colors early but Falkenrath Noble is pretty awesome too. I probably would take a while to make the pick but in the end pick Juggernaut mainly because I like him in the types of decks I play in Limited.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Draft it on Cubetutor!
I like me some Juggernaut, but I'd go with the Noble here. Both are good, and Juggs keeps me from committing to a color, but I don't like that he has to attack and may well not untap during critical turns if you've got a skilled opponent, and Noble stays active through a good chunk of the removal in the format. Also, it helps that black tends to be underdrafted at my LGS.
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UR Melek, Izzet Paragon UR
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BR Rakdos, Lord of Riots BR
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1. Great symmetry with several other common or uncommon cards, particularly sweepers/sacrifice effects
2. Evasion
It is close, though. I really like the juggernaut and I think he's underrated as a cheap 5/5 beater.
~M
If it was P2P1 and I was in Black, I'd probably take the Noble.
If falkenrath noble was 2/1 (or 3/1) or 2BB, then I'd take bonds of faith.
My have/wants trade list.
P1P1
I took keeper, but I felt none too good passing the falkenrath.
Bloodline Keeper = Green Bay Packers
Falkenrath Marauders = New York Giants
The Marauders are a good pull, but you would feel more confident of winning betting on the Bloodline Keeper.
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