I've been playing GW aggro (or some variation of GW aggro) for over a year now, with mediocre at best results.
My question is, does GW aggro REALLY get powerful after RTR drops? Now everyone is trying to say it could possibly be a tier 1 / 1.5 deck - however, this is what I kept hearing with every set. Control destroys midrange GW aggro, and it seems everyone at my LGS plays some variation of control.
I've been running GW human aggro with Champion of the Parish and Champion of Lambholt and they have been doing pretty well the past two weeks I've been running it narrowly missing the top 8 both times.
Every time I see GW aggro as a viable option I get stomped. BAD.
I was running a mono green Dungrove deck, that was fast and aggro heavy - got destroyed. Then I ran various GW decks for a while - the most recent one I ran was GW humans with Champions of the Parish, rancors, Paladins, etc - and it tanked as well.
Now once again everyone is talking about GW aggro - and I just don't know how much longer I can believe everyone. Thinking it's time to abandon ship.
GW Aggro is usually incredibly powerful, it is just uninteractive. It's rarely a matter of specific cards but where the metagame gets pushed. It was a Tier 1 deck last fall (til Delver took over). So admittedly that was a short month and a half.
Mind you we could be talking about lots of different decks. There is WG aggro which is basically a variant of White Weenie. Those decks in this format especially haven't had the resiliency to sweepers that say WU has.
The general problem with GW aggressive midrange decks is if there is a successful ramp deck that precludes it's inclusion. Basically Primeval Titan has been the reason these decks haven't existed since Alara (which had a lot of GW aggressive midrange). They even found a way around Wolf Run Ramp since it wasn't as effective as Valakut, but Delver showed up and Delver is about the worst imaginable deck against these decks. It's like if I could picture a deck that preyed on them it would be that. A blue tempo deck that can mess with expensive spells and mess up mana development via Gut Shot at no Tempo loss. This forced these decks into Naya value decks. Mind you even if they had red they were largely just GW Aggressive decks, so it hasn't been that long since it was viable. These decks just cannibalized themselves with Bonfire.
Mind you thinking it will be different now might be optimistic. GW midrange decks often end up cannibalizing themselves since they aren't that interactive. At a certain point to beat each other they often go bigger and bigger into durdle oblivion. I mean if I blink my Thragtusk, you want to blink yours more.. Next thing you know my deck does nothing but blink Thragtusk, meanwhile someone has figured out how to just kill me. Even worse, the deck actually only gets value on the board and can't even beat control. This is just a worst case scenario. It doesn't have to be this bad but it's something to consider.
There is no reason a deck in these colors can't beat control, and stabilize against aggro, but you have avoid the temptation to play with yourself doing nothing. If that is your desire play Izzet. Similarly you can't rely on purely a white weenie mentality if the deck doesn't quite have the ability to push the damage. It's a balance and it depends a lot on the direction of the metagame. If there is room for uninteractive decks doing powerful things then it has a shot.
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honestly i feel UW's uncounterable Wrath of god has 1 weakness in GW. Rootborn Defenses. im running a 4 of in SB and a 4 set of sheltering ward in mainboard. ppl dont see these things coming making them awesome homebrew toolbox cards.
It's an instant speed 5/5 trampler for 4. Wtf do you people want seriously? It has applications in populate/ above the curve beats decks, or in Bant control/ flash. I seriously think anyone mad at this card for any reason other than losing an attacker to instant speed wurm, should go home and make their own awesome card game and leave the rest of us alone.
Garruk, Primal Hunter and Sigarda, Host of Herons seem like fantastic options against control. The former laughs at wrath effects, and the latter laughs at targeted removal or edicts. There's also Thragtusk which is resistant to any type of removal, and seems strong against a variety of decks.
I just still can't see it happening. GW would be a decent midrange deck, but I would imagine that would be all. I don't see it ever being a tier 1 deck, because everything GW creates has an immediate answer to it.
Almost any level of control would cripple these decks.
I've been doing very well with GW aggro since AVR came out. Going to have to change it up a bit now after losing BoP and Blade Splicer, but still should be good.
A pure G/W aggro deck isn't going to keep up with zombies:
Dryad Militant vs. Gravecrawler
Call of the Conclave or Strangleroot Gheist vs. Loltleth Troll
Loxodon Smiter or Centaur Healer vs. Dreg Mangler
...etc.
G/W midrange will be a great deck, but GRW Zoo isn't far off. Flinthoof Boar is just begging for a spot, Mizzium Mortars will function in place of Char, we've got Strangleroot Gheist, Loxodon Smiter, we'll probably see a solid RW Gideon Jura for a Planeswalker...so yes, GW aggro will be good, as long as you don't mind some red in the deck.
I see the potential for GW midrange to be powerful, but still think the most basic form of control is going to destroy the deck. And yes, I agree - Supreme verdict will definitely see a lot of play. One of these on turn 4-5 means you're pretty much starting over.
The only version that MAY be alright is a more speed/aggro version, running ramp and loxodon smiter / rancor , etc - and pretty early - but will still lose to any form of control mid-late game.
I'm anxious to see how GW plays over the next few weeks, but I'll be honest - if I know my opponent is playing any version of these so called "tier 1" decks, I'm going to look forward to a 2-0 victory.
Any form of GW aggro is pretty much dependant on whether or not a control deck becomes a big part of the meta game.
If it does not, or at least does not at the start, then go nuts! In this environment green and white contain the most powerful creatures, in both strength to mana cost and incremental advantage.
Take Strangleroot Geist as well, team him up with Silverblade Paladin and your looking at a silly amount of damage. Plus, with eight duals and eight dorks that can produce white or green mana; turn two Geist into turn three Paladin is completely possible.
Need I say more?
Sure, these are all great possibilities - but I just ALWAYS see control in the meta game. You might beat people early on, but mid-late game I think these decks crumble. I really wish I could say otherwise, but as a LONG time aggro and GW player, these decks are just not performing anywhere near as good as any control decks.
ive been testing this for a while, and all i can say is that it is amazing.
the only thing that shut this baby down is a well placed mass removal, like terminus/veredict, if not, it kills. and, for this we have rootbound defenses in the sb (terminus sucks, right)
against aggro, i keep flickering centaur healer, and when you can cast a restorarion angel or thragtusk, you are done. the exalted white knight seems very good against zombies.
I think populate effects are insane. Fog populate, Indestructable populate. These are never a waste because the result if you play it right is another creature.
I see the potential for GW midrange to be powerful, but still think the most basic form of control is going to destroy the deck. And yes, I agree - Supreme verdict will definitely see a lot of play. One of these on turn 4-5 means you're pretty much starting over.
There are ways around this. For one, not overextending. We can also stuff our sideboard (or even maindeck!) full of cards that don't die to Wrath, such as planeswalkers or Selesnya Keyrune.
ive been testing this for a while, and all i can say is that it is amazing.
the only thing that shut this baby down is a well placed mass removal, like terminus/veredict, if not, it kills. and, for this we have rootbound defenses in the sb (terminus sucks, right)
against aggro, i keep flickering centaur healer, and when you can cast a restorarion angel or thragtusk, you are done. the exalted white knight seems very good against zombies.
I HOPE YOU ARE RIGHT!
Trust me, I know I'm sounding so pessimistic right now, but I have been fed up with being in 12th place out of 20+ players that only play control. I'm very close to severing ties with GW. I really look forward to see how GW performs these next few weeks!
Midrange vs. control is all about not over-extending. Do you know your opponent is playing 6-8 wrath effects? Then don't dump your entire hand ASAP. Drop a couple threats and ride them until you force your opponent to deal with them. Then drop more. And more. While control would be the worst match-up, it's not as if it's a match that can never be won. Just gotta make smart plays.
G/W has the tools to deal with Control with Restoration Angel, Thragtusk, & Gavony Township. Restoration Angel helps protect your creatures or a card to play on opponent's end step. Thragtusk works with Resto Angel and allows you to overcommit to the board knowing you will get tokens. Gavony Township allows you to ride your current board state to victory while your opponent is forced to act.
My question is, does GW aggro REALLY get powerful after RTR drops? Now everyone is trying to say it could possibly be a tier 1 / 1.5 deck - however, this is what I kept hearing with every set. Control destroys midrange GW aggro, and it seems everyone at my LGS plays some variation of control.
Also, is the only GW aggro deck flicker based? ( Thragtusk , Restoration Angel , Armada Wurm , etc)
I was running a mono green Dungrove deck, that was fast and aggro heavy - got destroyed. Then I ran various GW decks for a while - the most recent one I ran was GW humans with Champions of the Parish, rancors, Paladins, etc - and it tanked as well.
Now once again everyone is talking about GW aggro - and I just don't know how much longer I can believe everyone. Thinking it's time to abandon ship.
Mind you we could be talking about lots of different decks. There is WG aggro which is basically a variant of White Weenie. Those decks in this format especially haven't had the resiliency to sweepers that say WU has.
The general problem with GW aggressive midrange decks is if there is a successful ramp deck that precludes it's inclusion. Basically Primeval Titan has been the reason these decks haven't existed since Alara (which had a lot of GW aggressive midrange). They even found a way around Wolf Run Ramp since it wasn't as effective as Valakut, but Delver showed up and Delver is about the worst imaginable deck against these decks. It's like if I could picture a deck that preyed on them it would be that. A blue tempo deck that can mess with expensive spells and mess up mana development via Gut Shot at no Tempo loss. This forced these decks into Naya value decks. Mind you even if they had red they were largely just GW Aggressive decks, so it hasn't been that long since it was viable. These decks just cannibalized themselves with Bonfire.
Mind you thinking it will be different now might be optimistic. GW midrange decks often end up cannibalizing themselves since they aren't that interactive. At a certain point to beat each other they often go bigger and bigger into durdle oblivion. I mean if I blink my Thragtusk, you want to blink yours more.. Next thing you know my deck does nothing but blink Thragtusk, meanwhile someone has figured out how to just kill me. Even worse, the deck actually only gets value on the board and can't even beat control. This is just a worst case scenario. It doesn't have to be this bad but it's something to consider.
There is no reason a deck in these colors can't beat control, and stabilize against aggro, but you have avoid the temptation to play with yourself doing nothing. If that is your desire play Izzet. Similarly you can't rely on purely a white weenie mentality if the deck doesn't quite have the ability to push the damage. It's a balance and it depends a lot on the direction of the metagame. If there is room for uninteractive decks doing powerful things then it has a shot.
GWU Knightfall Modern
UW Tempo Legacy
UGR Burning Wish Cobra Vintage
Yep, Armada Wurm, Angel of Serenity and the two Garruks give GW enough resilience against it's old "weaknesses."
And I absolutely LOVE the GW charm in pretty much every GW build.
4th place at CCC&G Pro Tour
Chances of bad hands (<2 or >4 land):
21: 28.9%
22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
On the lower end of the curve, there's Thalia, Guardian of Thraben. Loxodon Smiter against counters. Strangleroot Geist against most removal. Restoration Angel against targeted effects.
I think GW aggro or midrange has a lot to work with right now.
GWAggro wont work. No Bird of Paradise, No Hero of the Bladehold, No Blade Splicer and no Swords reduce the power level of this deck
I've playtested the deck alot and it just...Fail...
I've been playing GWAggro (Richard Bland's Worlds 2011 list+modification) and post rotation GWAggro is nothing compared to pre-rotation.
Almost any level of control would cripple these decks.
Dryad Militant vs. Gravecrawler
Call of the Conclave or Strangleroot Gheist vs. Loltleth Troll
Loxodon Smiter or Centaur Healer vs. Dreg Mangler
...etc.
G/W midrange will be a great deck, but GRW Zoo isn't far off. Flinthoof Boar is just begging for a spot, Mizzium Mortars will function in place of Char, we've got Strangleroot Gheist, Loxodon Smiter, we'll probably see a solid RW Gideon Jura for a Planeswalker...so yes, GW aggro will be good, as long as you don't mind some red in the deck.
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Usually I'd say "Oh, if you want to play midrange vs. board wipes, go bant" but even THAT isn't an option here.
Because we care about facts.
What about Elite Inquisitor with Pro. Zombies?
The only version that MAY be alright is a more speed/aggro version, running ramp and loxodon smiter / rancor , etc - and pretty early - but will still lose to any form of control mid-late game.
I'm anxious to see how GW plays over the next few weeks, but I'll be honest - if I know my opponent is playing any version of these so called "tier 1" decks, I'm going to look forward to a 2-0 victory.
a 2 colour wrath that does nothing vs the rest of the field?
haha nope
I'm more scared of the 1 mana wrath tbqh.
Sure, these are all great possibilities - but I just ALWAYS see control in the meta game. You might beat people early on, but mid-late game I think these decks crumble. I really wish I could say otherwise, but as a LONG time aggro and GW player, these decks are just not performing anywhere near as good as any control decks.
the only thing that shut this baby down is a well placed mass removal, like terminus/veredict, if not, it kills. and, for this we have rootbound defenses in the sb (terminus sucks, right)
against aggro, i keep flickering centaur healer, and when you can cast a restorarion angel or thragtusk, you are done. the exalted white knight seems very good against zombies.
UGB The mimeoplasm BGU
UBWSharuum the HegemonWBU
RUGAnimar, Soul of Elements GUR
BWGDoran, the siege towerGWB
GRBProssh, skyraider of kherBRG
UBRSedris, The traitor kingRBU
WRGRith, the awakenerGRW
Developing: Skullbriar zombies, Nekuzar Draw&Die, Zedruu enchantment control, Nath BG elves & 5C Slivers.
There are ways around this. For one, not overextending. We can also stuff our sideboard (or even maindeck!) full of cards that don't die to Wrath, such as planeswalkers or Selesnya Keyrune.
I HOPE YOU ARE RIGHT!
Trust me, I know I'm sounding so pessimistic right now, but I have been fed up with being in 12th place out of 20+ players that only play control. I'm very close to severing ties with GW. I really look forward to see how GW performs these next few weeks!
But no, they printed Abrupt Decay AND Dreadbore.
Sadface.