Any solid deck lists you guys can recommend that make good use of these four cards? Cast Geralf's Messenger for 2 damage. Use Altar's Reap and sacrifice it to bring it back stronger + card draw. Maybe use Havengul Lich to recast Geralf's Messenger and repeat the combo. What do you think?
I think using Altar's Reap and Geralf's Messenger together is fantastic. For 5 mana you deal 4 damage, draw 2 cards, and put a 4/3 zombie in play.
True but at the cost of 8 slots in your deck? Messanger is one of you best weapons what are you hoping to draw thats better, anther one? Would stink to waste one shot with him drawing two lands.
True but at the cost of 8 slots in your deck? Messanger is one of you best weapons what are you hoping to draw thats better, anther one? Would stink to waste one shot with him drawing two lands.
Yes, drawing 2 lands at the end of your opponents turn to get em out of the way for a live draw stinks
Personally, I think that altar's reap has it's uses. As mentioned above, the fact that it's instant makes it more valuable than if it were a sorcery. It gives you the opportunity to wait till the end of their turn, throw a doom blade at their creature to get it out of the way, or if they have tapped out, sac your guy to get two cards and two extra damage. In addition, it may not be something that is expected: 2 dmg + swinging for 1 extra - may end a game earlier than expected for an opposing aggro deck.
I think 1 is solid, 2 has been pretty bad atleast for me since I only seem to use it with Crawler or if they use removal and a lot of times u dont have free mana (u want to use kill spell instead at end of turn etc)
It's better with Gravecrawler (assuming you have another zombie out) because for 3 mana and 1 card you get instant speed 2 cards. This is actually better draw then anything blue has.
It's not terrible with Messenger especially if you're playing green or white which just doesn't have a lot of removal options but against red or black very rarely would I use it other then as a response to their removal. Now obviously if you have them on the ropes it's a nice way to push through another 2 damage.
As a B/U zombie player thought I think Think Twice (or Forbidden Alchemy) is better in most cases.
I think using Altar's Reap and Geralf's Messenger together is fantastic. For 5 mana you deal 4 damage, draw 2 cards, and put a 4/3 zombie in play.
You don't want to blow the Messenger's 2 life loss early, and doing so opens Messenger up to being removed with just one of their spells/blockers, negating some of the advantage he provides against sweepers.
I like Alter's Reap and use it as a 3-of in my list. My best plays with it were sacing my messenger in response to an oblivion ring and 1 of my 3 gravecrawlers to a sever the bloodline.
I'll admit that it's not the greatest card, but sign in blood isn't in the format, so this is probably our best alternative.
You know the card is good when 1/3 of the people say its underpowered, 1/3 say its just right, and the other 1/3 say its overpowered.
Standard GRampG Modern
none atm Legacy 0Afinity0 RGoblinsR Vintage
LOLOL I don't have that kind of money EDH/Commander BGSavra, Queen of the Golgari (tokens/sac)GB WUBRGKarona, False God (allies)GRBUW BSeizan, Perverter of Truth (discard)B WUKangee, Aerie Keeper (bird/ramp)UW
I like Alter's Reap and use it as a 3-of in my list. My best plays with it were sacing my messenger in response to an oblivion ring and 1 of my 3 gravecrawlers to a sever the bloodline.
I'll admit that it's not the greatest card, but sign in blood isn't in the format, so this is probably our best alternative.
I feel as if the saccing is either hit or miss, and you're just playing the messenger or crawler lottery. Granted, card draw would be nice, but the deck is good as is. Besides, when it comes to saving creatures, Vapor Snag does it for cheaper. Not only this, but altar's reap can be a completely dead card.
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Assuming they reprint Goyf, they could make it uncommon if they really wanted to. It's not like it would break limited or anything. I'm just not sure they'd want to drive its price into the ground for all of time. Shocks could be uncommon, too. It's not like dual lands are going to warp limited.
I run Altars Reap as a 2 of, messenger as a 4 of. I can honestly say that you'll only do this 1 time out of every 10 casts of altars reap, usually you're sac'ing either a targeted-by-removal creature, or a gravecrawler that you'll recast anyway.
Altar's reap also negates wurmcoils first attack/block, so remember that as well.
In any deck where I run 4x crawlers and 4x messengers I believe 2x Reap is completely valid. Reap is always a good response to a removal/O-ring on any creature and can be broken on a crawler or messenger as EOT draw. It's a very good advantage that can help just about any deck.
Currently running two Reap in addition to the regular Messenger/Crawler package. It has given me some stupid acceleration at times, but other times it is just plain dead in hand. With my current build, these are about to go to the side, since I really only like them in response to an O-ring or Celestial Purge. I think in all other matchups, I would just rather have more aggro/creature hate in the board.
i still prefer tezzeret's gambit out of all the options suggested. especially over alter's reap. there is few if no counters to proliferate but when it comes to draw backs gambit packs the least and does not require you to lose any creatures to cast.
in blue black zombies vapor snaging your own messenger makes more sense than using reap to kill it.
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Reap is a decent answer to an O-ring/Celestial Purge on your Messenger/Crawler or a kill spell on any other zombie. This is due to the instant speed, which Gambit does not have. I find instant speed to be the deciding factor here. Now if proliferate could remove a counter...
I run two main currently, but I am thinking of moving them to the board and moving in two more fume spitters, since WRR, RG aggro, and Delver are popular here. They would then come in mostly against decks that can O-ring/CP and UB control.
The silliest thing I have done with Reap is sac a Messenger and, since it is an additional cost to cast, it pushed the two lethal through their Dissipate. Situational? Sure. Satisfying? You betcha'.
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and
Havengul Lich
Arent very good.
Thats a very slow, easily disruptable engine that rewards you very little.
By the time you do all that... your opponent plays a titan.
G2?
Yeah this is slow, even if it would be effective.
EDIT: I still wanna make it work. =]
True but at the cost of 8 slots in your deck? Messanger is one of you best weapons what are you hoping to draw thats better, anther one? Would stink to waste one shot with him drawing two lands.
Yes, drawing 2 lands at the end of your opponents turn to get em out of the way for a live draw stinks
It's not terrible with Messenger especially if you're playing green or white which just doesn't have a lot of removal options but against red or black very rarely would I use it other then as a response to their removal. Now obviously if you have them on the ropes it's a nice way to push through another 2 damage.
As a B/U zombie player thought I think Think Twice (or Forbidden Alchemy) is better in most cases.
You don't want to blow the Messenger's 2 life loss early, and doing so opens Messenger up to being removed with just one of their spells/blockers, negating some of the advantage he provides against sweepers.
I'll admit that it's not the greatest card, but sign in blood isn't in the format, so this is probably our best alternative.
Standard
GRampG
Modern
none atm
Legacy
0Afinity0
RGoblinsR
Vintage
LOLOL I don't have that kind of money
EDH/Commander
BGSavra, Queen of the Golgari (tokens/sac)GB
WUBRGKarona, False God (allies)GRBUW
BSeizan, Perverter of Truth (discard)B
WUKangee, Aerie Keeper (bird/ramp)UW
I feel as if the saccing is either hit or miss, and you're just playing the messenger or crawler lottery. Granted, card draw would be nice, but the deck is good as is. Besides, when it comes to saving creatures, Vapor Snag does it for cheaper. Not only this, but altar's reap can be a completely dead card.
Thanks to DarkNightCavalier for the Avatar and Sig.
Check out my Trade Thread for your Chinese Standard and Pox needs Here!
Altar's reap also negates wurmcoils first attack/block, so remember that as well.
Allows you to attack with crawler, trigger morbid and have another untapped body for the priest.
Altar's Reap is fantastic, by the way. Very overlooked card.
The cutest thing I've ever seen done with it was probably blocking something big with a black cat, then alter's reaping the cat.
in blue black zombies vapor snaging your own messenger makes more sense than using reap to kill it.
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Decks: "Name one! I probably got it built In one of these boxes."
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[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
Merfolk! showing magic players what a shower is since Lorwyn!
Reap is a decent answer to an O-ring/Celestial Purge on your Messenger/Crawler or a kill spell on any other zombie. This is due to the instant speed, which Gambit does not have. I find instant speed to be the deciding factor here. Now if proliferate could remove a counter...
I run two main currently, but I am thinking of moving them to the board and moving in two more fume spitters, since WRR, RG aggro, and Delver are popular here. They would then come in mostly against decks that can O-ring/CP and UB control.
The silliest thing I have done with Reap is sac a Messenger and, since it is an additional cost to cast, it pushed the two lethal through their Dissipate. Situational? Sure. Satisfying? You betcha'.