I've been toying with it in the delver match, and as importantly, it's pro-green which is a solid vs RGA/MGA... because, strangleroot geist isn't fun at all.
I've also thought how it might be okay in the mirror to glimpse and get ahead in the milling (if you're going the drownyard plan)... Obviously it boils down to how many snapcasters you run and other creatures...
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Mod can you move this to the appropriate forum. It's obviously in the wrong one.
Unfunny.
I mean, maybe you could move it to a Tezzeret or Esper control list thread that run more than 3 creatures, but, I think it's a little more broad than either of those. Ergo, thanks for playing.
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Un autre con brandit le drapeau de la nouvelle économie. Agitant sa criminelle thérapie, l'abruti prophá¨te s'en va guerrir le monde de ses maux ! Mais la misá¨re n'a que faire de cette médecine á dose homeopathétique, Il n'y a d'autre cure que l'ablation du liberal-fascisme qui nous ronge. - Amanda Woodward, Un Autre Con
How many creatures are you running? I'm running 3 Snaps and 3 Grave Titans. Grave Titans don't need a sword to win games and I don't think 3 Snapcaster Mages is enough targets to waste space on a Sword.
I've been toying with it in the delver match, and as importantly, it's pro-green which is a solid vs RGA/MGA... because, strangleroot geist isn't fun at all.
I've also thought how it might be okay in the mirror to glimpse and get ahead in the milling (if you're going the drownyard plan)... Obviously it boils down to how many snapcasters you run and other creatures...
Swords are best in decks running a heavy creature/token base. At that point, you're no longer playing UBx control, you're playing Spirits or Delver or something else.
Unrelated to its use in UB Control, I do wonder why more people haven't tried using it considering the metagame right now is largely blue-based aggro. I mean yeah, Spirit tokens are white so W&P makes sense too but last I knew, Delver and Snapcaster were still blue.
I mean, maybe you could move it to a Tezzeret or Esper control list thread that run more than 3 creatures, but, I think it's a little more broad than either of those. Ergo, thanks for playing.
I wasn't trying to be funny. I honestly thought it was put in the wrong forum as I don't think anyone could be as daft as to suggest that into a UB control list. My bad.
i could "ALMOST" see body and mind coming in in the mirror, when post board you run at least 10 creatures. Personally, post board, even if i bring in all my creatures, it's still only 2 snap, 2 grave, 2 batter, 1 wurmcoil. but i suppose if you're running 3 snaps 3 grave 2 batter 1 wurmcoil and 2 lord of lineage it might be okay...
Really i'm just trying to see OPs side of things... i mean in theory, post board most creature removal should be out, maybe a few lillies, and a bsz or two... if you consistently get even one hit in with SoBaM in the mirror, i guess it's ok...
At this point it just comes down to which is better? Witchbane orb; difficult to deal with, but possibly a do nothing card unless they are purely on the mill you plan? SoBaM; which can either make their removal they were unable to board out live, or just sit dead on the board? or a real card that is extremely difficult to deal with ala jace? I just don't think there's room in the board with a typical UB control lists. A tragic slip in the side trumps Body and Mind.
I can see Body and Mind being tested in an esper deck that runs 4 lingering souls, WSZ, snappy, and a few titans, maybe bringing in a mirran crusader post board... but it just doesn't fit in a true UB control list.
i would still really like to hear how people handle Solar Flare i have been surprise intercourse with that for a while now what is your gameplan and what do you sideboard in and out?
To be fair, a friend of mine once had a pretty good UB control deck that had a slightly heavier creature base (4 snapcasters, a couple of Azure Mage, Sphinx finishers) and he ran a couple of SoFaFs. The ability to get twice the mana every turn made it so that if he could connect with a SoFaF, he would pretty much win because he would just tapout after blocks for a bunch of cards and then untap for answers. Nore: this was back in the pre-DKA Wolf-Run dominated metagame, where such a creature-based strategy wasn't as bad as it would be now.
That being said, if you are in a heavier creature base, Sword of Feast and Famine is what you want. The absurdity of the card advantage it provides (in the right context) is way better than the mill a SoBaM provides. Essentially, SoBaM is a threat card, because it advances our plan to kill them. But it requires a threat to be useful, so you get this redundancy that makes it overall a sub-par card. Now compared to SoFaF, which supplements the equipped threat with card advantage by providing additional resources, is virtually unbeatable once it gets online.
Bottom line is this: None of the Swords fit in the deck or Board. Every card has to deliver value on it's own because you can't count on seeing the other cards that combo with it -- in the case of Swords these cards are the dorks. I run a heavier than normal dork squad in mine with 2 each Sphinxes and Titans and three Snaps (This pains me, but is necessary in my meta) and I did consider the SoB&M for all of about 5 seconds. My board has two Batterskulls and two Keepers but I don't put them in for a Mirror Gm 2 unless I lost Game one or I'm sure to see Witchbane Orb. So, post-board I have to hit enough dorks to hope one will live long enough to equip with a Sword and then connect -- tapping out my mana a lot in the process. No thanks. Now, if the Sword was a living weapon I'd feel very differently about it, but since it's just a lump of metal that does nothing on it's own...pass.
BTW: Did someone say they Board out BSZ in the mirror? Isn't this an error? Last night I kept mine in and managed to "fatten" my library by casting it for 0 each time I saw it. I did this four or five times over the course of the game (until all three were finally milled away) making it necessary for my oppo to Drown me two more times to finish me. He failed and I won, but it was close.
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Some people like to win MtG matches in the Red Zone. I prefer to win the way God intended: on the stack.
Bottom line is this: None of the Swords fit in the deck or Board. Every card has to deliver value on it's own because you can't count on seeing the other cards that combo with it -- in the case of Swords these cards are the dorks. I run a heavier than normal dork squad in mine with 2 each Sphinxes and Titans and three Snaps (This pains me, but is necessary in my meta) and I did consider the SoB&M for all of about 5 seconds. My board has two Batterskulls and two Keepers but I don't put them in for a Mirror Gm 2 unless I lost Game one or I'm sure to see Witchbane Orb. So, post-board I have to hit enough dorks to hope one will live long enough to equip with a Sword and then connect -- tapping out my mana a lot in the process. No thanks. Now, if the Sword was a living weapon I'd feel very differently about it, but since it's just a lump of metal that does nothing on it's own...pass.
BTW: Did someone say they Board out BSZ in the mirror? Isn't this an error? Last night I kept mine in and managed to "fatten" my library by casting it for 0 each time I saw it. I did this four or five times over the course of the game (until all three were finally milled away) making it necessary for my oppo to Drown me two more times to finish me. He failed and I won, but it was close.
I end up leaving one BSZ, but end up with two USZ post board. the fact that you were drawing those BSZ's to cast them for 0 sounds like you were doing something wrong. wouldn't you rather be drawing into action? also, yes he had to mill you 2 extra times, but that's only because you essentially had 4-5 less draw steps than he did... it obviously ended up working out, but arguably if 2 of those BSZ were something more threatening like jace, karn, wurmcoil, batterskull, or even more impressive SXE+ghost quart (no idea if you already had these) then he would have to use resources countering or getting rid of your threats, maybe even drowning himself for gas, saving you a lot more than 2 extra downings.
Post board i'm on the drown you plan in the mirror, but i still increase my threat density, a resolved jace or karn wins the game, a resolved grave titan or wurmcoil/batterskull stalls them while they try and deal with it. I try to almost never tap below drownyard if i can help it, and don't try and waste counters on protecting my non-mill threats unless the situation calls for it (which is less often then you would think).
If you can draw 2 drownyards with the mana to activate them, you're doing well. If they are flashing back alchemy's you are more than happy. if you're casting BSZ to keep them from milling you... there's something wrong, and you're in one of those situations where YES casting those BSZ's are what kept you from losing the game. but at the same time if they were something else, it could have played out essentially the same just 2 turns of them countering/killing your batter skulls instead of milling you is just as effective as casting BSZ for 0 5 times, except you're putting on pressure, running out his counters putting him in a position where he needs to refill his hand before he can bother returning to the mill you plan.
i would still really like to hear how people handle Solar Flare i have been surprise intercourse with that for a while now what is your gameplan and what do you sideboard in and out?
I end up leaving one BSZ, but end up with two USZ post board. the fact that you were drawing those BSZ's to cast them for 0 sounds like you were doing something wrong. wouldn't you rather be drawing into action? also, yes he had to mill you 2 extra times, but that's only because you essentially had 4-5 less draw steps than he did... it obviously ended up working out, but arguably if 2 of those BSZ were something more threatening like jace, karn, wurmcoil, batterskull, or even more impressive SXE+ghost quart (no idea if you already had these) then he would have to use resources countering or getting rid of your threats, maybe even drowning himself for gas, saving you a lot more than 2 extra downings.
Post board i'm on the drown you plan in the mirror, but i still increase my threat density, a resolved jace or karn wins the game, a resolved grave titan or wurmcoil/batterskull stalls them while they try and deal with it. I try to almost never tap below drownyard if i can help it, and don't try and waste counters on protecting my non-mill threats unless the situation calls for it (which is less often then you would think).
If you can draw 2 drownyards with the mana to activate them, you're doing well. If they are flashing back alchemy's you are more than happy. if you're casting BSZ to keep them from milling you... there's something wrong, and you're in one of those situations where YES casting those BSZ's are what kept you from losing the game. but at the same time if they were something else, it could have played out essentially the same just 2 turns of them countering/killing your batter skulls instead of milling you is just as effective as casting BSZ for 0 5 times, except you're putting on pressure, running out his counters putting him in a position where he needs to refill his hand before he can bother returning to the mill you plan.
I agree that it was underwhelming to cast BSZ for 0 and I would much rather have gone for a lot more interactivity out of the board. If I win game one, I prefer to keep with the Drownyard plan post-board. But even then I am left with a shortage of cards to put in. My LGS is full of aggro decks (I am one of 3 control decks in the room out of about 20 so getting a R1 mirror was a bit of a fluke) so my Board actually has even more anti-aggro gas in it, despite the fact that the MD is already strong. For the mirror I bring in Drownyard #4, 2 x SXE, Jace and Karn. I take out 3 x Mana Leaks ('cause I don't really expect anything to happen until we can both pay three extra for anything) and the Tributes. The BSZ for 0 play is cute, but I actually like keeping them in because if I won game one then they might be on the dork plan for Game 2 and BSZ deals with Titan and Keeper.
I think that the mirror is all about playing lands. I don't want to play Wurmcoil/Titan or even Karn -- really I don't want to play anything at all in my turn as that usually just means I am walking into a counterspell or EoT removal and then not only can they do whatever they want while I am tapped down but I am not drowning them. You make a really good point about forcing him to be reactive though. If you can force him into a situation where he is drowning himself looking a response to a significant on board threat then you have already won, whether you kill him him with the Batterskull or what have you or mill him out later.
/M
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Some people like to win MtG matches in the Red Zone. I prefer to win the way God intended: on the stack.
i suppose you could make a control deck around it running creatures that are not easy to target and have evasion qualities like inkmoth nexus, invisible stalker etc.
problem is your only 1 elesh norn or black suns from being shut down.
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i suppose you could make a control deck around it running creatures that are not easy to target and have evasion qualities like inkmoth nexus, invisible stalker etc.
problem is your only 1 elesh norn or black suns from being shut down.
Sure, you could do this, but why would you? And if you did, wouldn't it just turn into the current iteration of Delver or Esper Spirits or something like that? I ran a singleton SoW&P in my Spirits deck. That could easily be another sword if it made sense.
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Some people like to win MtG matches in the Red Zone. I prefer to win the way God intended: on the stack.
i suppose you could make a control deck around it running creatures that are not easy to target and have evasion qualities like inkmoth nexus, invisible stalker etc.
problem is your only 1 elesh norn or black suns from being shut down.
Just not U/B control, if you want to run that kind of stuff or post SCD of Sword of Body and Mind, this is in the wrong forum.
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Anyone else have any experience with it?
I've been toying with it in the delver match, and as importantly, it's pro-green which is a solid vs RGA/MGA... because, strangleroot geist isn't fun at all.
I've also thought how it might be okay in the mirror to glimpse and get ahead in the milling (if you're going the drownyard plan)... Obviously it boils down to how many snapcasters you run and other creatures...
Unfunny.
I mean, maybe you could move it to a Tezzeret or Esper control list thread that run more than 3 creatures, but, I think it's a little more broad than either of those. Ergo, thanks for playing.
Swords are best in decks running a heavy creature/token base. At that point, you're no longer playing UBx control, you're playing Spirits or Delver or something else.
Secondly, it really doesn't fit in UBx control.
1) Little advantage
2) Requires lots of board slots
3) isn't as good a wincon as a titan or jace.
this sword is underpowered, and it's extra terrible in the context of this deck.
I wasn't trying to be funny. I honestly thought it was put in the wrong forum as I don't think anyone could be as daft as to suggest that into a UB control list. My bad.
Really i'm just trying to see OPs side of things... i mean in theory, post board most creature removal should be out, maybe a few lillies, and a bsz or two... if you consistently get even one hit in with SoBaM in the mirror, i guess it's ok...
At this point it just comes down to which is better? Witchbane orb; difficult to deal with, but possibly a do nothing card unless they are purely on the mill you plan? SoBaM; which can either make their removal they were unable to board out live, or just sit dead on the board? or a real card that is extremely difficult to deal with ala jace? I just don't think there's room in the board with a typical UB control lists. A tragic slip in the side trumps Body and Mind.
I can see Body and Mind being tested in an esper deck that runs 4 lingering souls, WSZ, snappy, and a few titans, maybe bringing in a mirran crusader post board... but it just doesn't fit in a true UB control list.
That being said, if you are in a heavier creature base, Sword of Feast and Famine is what you want. The absurdity of the card advantage it provides (in the right context) is way better than the mill a SoBaM provides. Essentially, SoBaM is a threat card, because it advances our plan to kill them. But it requires a threat to be useful, so you get this redundancy that makes it overall a sub-par card. Now compared to SoFaF, which supplements the equipped threat with card advantage by providing additional resources, is virtually unbeatable once it gets online.
Also, body and mind isn't so great vs delver, as they have white blockers, and it isn't a large threat.
Against Frites, you basically deal 2 extra damage and get a Wolf AND have them "draw" 10 cards.
Well any deck running Unburial Rites, you almost hand them the win.
BTW: Did someone say they Board out BSZ in the mirror? Isn't this an error? Last night I kept mine in and managed to "fatten" my library by casting it for 0 each time I saw it. I did this four or five times over the course of the game (until all three were finally milled away) making it necessary for my oppo to Drown me two more times to finish me. He failed and I won, but it was close.
Swords don't exist in U/B. Why would you ever think of playing one?
I end up leaving one BSZ, but end up with two USZ post board. the fact that you were drawing those BSZ's to cast them for 0 sounds like you were doing something wrong. wouldn't you rather be drawing into action? also, yes he had to mill you 2 extra times, but that's only because you essentially had 4-5 less draw steps than he did... it obviously ended up working out, but arguably if 2 of those BSZ were something more threatening like jace, karn, wurmcoil, batterskull, or even more impressive SXE+ghost quart (no idea if you already had these) then he would have to use resources countering or getting rid of your threats, maybe even drowning himself for gas, saving you a lot more than 2 extra downings.
Post board i'm on the drown you plan in the mirror, but i still increase my threat density, a resolved jace or karn wins the game, a resolved grave titan or wurmcoil/batterskull stalls them while they try and deal with it. I try to almost never tap below drownyard if i can help it, and don't try and waste counters on protecting my non-mill threats unless the situation calls for it (which is less often then you would think).
If you can draw 2 drownyards with the mana to activate them, you're doing well. If they are flashing back alchemy's you are more than happy. if you're casting BSZ to keep them from milling you... there's something wrong, and you're in one of those situations where YES casting those BSZ's are what kept you from losing the game. but at the same time if they were something else, it could have played out essentially the same just 2 turns of them countering/killing your batter skulls instead of milling you is just as effective as casting BSZ for 0 5 times, except you're putting on pressure, running out his counters putting him in a position where he needs to refill his hand before he can bother returning to the mill you plan.
I agree that it was underwhelming to cast BSZ for 0 and I would much rather have gone for a lot more interactivity out of the board. If I win game one, I prefer to keep with the Drownyard plan post-board. But even then I am left with a shortage of cards to put in. My LGS is full of aggro decks (I am one of 3 control decks in the room out of about 20 so getting a R1 mirror was a bit of a fluke) so my Board actually has even more anti-aggro gas in it, despite the fact that the MD is already strong. For the mirror I bring in Drownyard #4, 2 x SXE, Jace and Karn. I take out 3 x Mana Leaks ('cause I don't really expect anything to happen until we can both pay three extra for anything) and the Tributes. The BSZ for 0 play is cute, but I actually like keeping them in because if I won game one then they might be on the dork plan for Game 2 and BSZ deals with Titan and Keeper.
I think that the mirror is all about playing lands. I don't want to play Wurmcoil/Titan or even Karn -- really I don't want to play anything at all in my turn as that usually just means I am walking into a counterspell or EoT removal and then not only can they do whatever they want while I am tapped down but I am not drowning them. You make a really good point about forcing him to be reactive though. If you can force him into a situation where he is drowning himself looking a response to a significant on board threat then you have already won, whether you kill him him with the Batterskull or what have you or mill him out later.
/M
problem is your only 1 elesh norn or black suns from being shut down.
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Sure, you could do this, but why would you? And if you did, wouldn't it just turn into the current iteration of Delver or Esper Spirits or something like that? I ran a singleton SoW&P in my Spirits deck. That could easily be another sword if it made sense.
Just not U/B control, if you want to run that kind of stuff or post SCD of Sword of Body and Mind, this is in the wrong forum.