One thing I like about Ambush Viper is how ridiculous it is when you cast and kill something. It feels like you're beating a legitimate T2 deck with a sealed deck, which I find hilarious. Blocking Noble w/ Viper is, I dunno, I get a lot of satisfaction out of it
There was a lot of anti-wurm sentiment in the Developing Dredge thread. Most people seemed to prefer Ambush Viper so the deck had SOME removal. I also have a soft spot for Aether Adepts in this deck too
The decks here and in the Developing Dredge thread are going to end up with remakarbly similar builds.
Shall I just throw the Swiftfoot Boots option out here now then? Get those Cagebreakers attacking straight away
I find that Lunge is the card that is the centerpiece of the deck. It's nice to have Splinterfright and maybe a Boneyard beatdown a bit (possibly even a Cagebreakers), but really I'm trying to setup a massive attack and that usually comes from Lunge. At least, that's how I've won all my games so far.
I've been playing with 4x Reanimating Skeleton in the SB as well versus control. Might as well keep bringing multiples of those back over and over again...
This deck is interesting. I've been playing w/ panda's list, and I find that it can really do some damage.
The one thing that seems to really hurt this deck are dead draws in the early game. Getting a hand of some combination of boneyard wurm, splinterfright, and lunge is just really brutal, and can set you back so far that it's hard to recover. Maybe this is blasphemy, but I think Boneyard Wurm is a weak link and should be reduced in number - maybe 2 is the right count. Splinterfright having trample and a self mill is just a better option.
Wurm is nice late game, and being cheap enough for a Lunge effect. 3 mana for a 8-12 damage kill after someone DOJ's is pretty wacky (and happened to me in a game 1 versus tokens).
I do agree on the poor hands early game. Mulch is totally key. I might start bringing back Forbidden Alchemy as well, but the problem I found was that when I had it in hand, I wanted to play something else, and when it was in the yard, I had already won or was about to win when I could cast it (or was too far behind to have it matter much). It's why I started testing Beast Within... because I knew the token was not at all an issue, and I could hopfully catch up depending on what I blew up on their end. Also it's fun being able to Beast your own Bird late game and pump the Fright/Wurm/Cagebreaker.
As for Viper... I like it as a 2-of, with 2 more in the side versus faster decks. Seems nice, and I always was happy to have him when I needed a chump.
How has this deck done with someone playing a nihil spellbomb? It seems like that would wreck this deck badly since it blanks all your win cons and you have to start over again. I feel like that would almost be an auto lose, am I wrong?
On a side note, awesome looking deck. I love the fact that it is so budget yet it seems like a blast to play.
All these decks are so focussed on the GY. There isn't a way to win outside it.
It may be worth running some non-GY dependent finisher, as a 1-2 of, to avoid issues of losing the GY. This is what I do. Well, 3 slots on a non-GY finisher.
The real question, at least for me, is how much more mill does the deck need? Does it REALLY need Dream Twists or Forbidden Alchemys? As someone rightly pointed out it always seems like you'd rather cast something else but, at the same time, you want to cast it. It's a tricky one and I'm still not sure what combination of Dream Twist/FA is best yet (if it's worth having them at all). It's kind of why I am leaning toward the Mesmerist more and more. It's a mini-Dream Twist but can double up as a decent chump blocker if need be.
For me, my GY tossing is geared toward uncontrolled, and I find that I never want more than 1 Forbidden Alchemy, I only ever want to hit Mulch in the early game, and I'm always happy to see Dream Twist.
I once farted during the final match for prizes at an FNM. It was a tense moment, everything was quiet, control vs control, I was about to mana leak, thought about it.. and farted. Then mana leaked.
ive been intrigued with this deck idea since I saw splinterfright and boneyard wurm. I tried making it work, but never could - I will try again though now that I have some deck lists to base off of!
think molten tail masticore can make the cut? seems like a good sac outlet (and gets around mirran crusader)
ive been intrigued with this deck idea since I saw splinterfright and boneyard wurm. I tried making it work, but never could - I will try again though now that I have some deck lists to base off of!
If you go to the dredge thread you can find some more decks that utilize those cards. =)
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Let it chump block one of our big guys whilst we barrel on through with everything else?
That and early game the Skaab blocks him nicely. By the time they slap a bunch of crap on him, we usually have a couple of huge beasties out. I'd also say this is one thing worth SBing in Vengefull Pharohs for.
That and early game the Skaab blocks him nicely. By the time they slap a bunch of crap on him, we usually have a couple of huge beasties out. I'd also say this is one thing worth SBing in Vengefull Pharohs for.
If you want to try and peddle your pharaohs take it to that silly dredge thread where the bad ideas hang out (just kidding)
But really the idea here is simply getting some mill going to throw a few creatures in the graveyard and then start playing relevant threats such as splinter, splinter and his bros NEED to be dealt with we can use ambush viper to fuel the graveyards a bit more and stall for time
then we try to cagebreak about turn 5-6 and hope it sticks and swing ftw
when they remove cagebreak we try to postmortem lunge, and hope it works this time
Its almost better to think of it as a combo deck imo
The one idea the Dredge had that I really enjoyed was splashing W for Day of Judgement. It's really not so hard as you can easily include Avacyn's Pilgrim for the mana sources. There's nothing quite like wiping the board and dropping a Splinterfright
this is a cool idea do you think there is some way to do a G/W list?
If you want to try and peddle your pharaohs take it to that silly dredge thread where the bad ideas hang out (just kidding)
But really the idea here is simply getting some mill going to throw a few creatures in the graveyard and then start playing relevant threats such as splinter, splinter and his bros NEED to be dealt with we can use ambush viper to fuel the graveyards a bit more and stall for time
I get it... I do... but you're also ignoring Mirran Crusader which really IS our biggest threat next to Nihil Spellbomb. It's all well and good to hope they'll keep him back to use as a blocker... but you and I both know that they'd likely rather throw a ton of Swords/Angelics on him and swing for unblockable.
So as much as I dislike Pharoah... he's also an answer for those who's metas are chalked full of Crusaders.
Ack, fair enough. Sorry, totally didn't re-read the card. Oh well! I guess sideboarding in U bounce like Vapor Snag, or even just countering the mother would be the best options then.
The good news about where we are now is that the second block of innistrad hasn't even come out yet, and this deck becomes more fairly viable to be decent as new ideas come out. Which is exciting!
What about splashing in a little bit of black so that you can recast alchemy as well as have spot removal so you can wallop with the scary critters?
The OP is a moron that cannot understand that the deck has MASSIVE problems.
A single Nihil Spellbomb destroys the deck. Killspells rip it apart, it has 0 ways to deal with threats, is inconsistent (can just not hit enough creatures in the yard)
To top it all off, the deck runs 20 lands and actually expects to cast a 5 mana spell when it wants to.
The OP is a moron that cannot understand that the deck has MASSIVE problems.
A single Nihil Spellbomb destroys the deck. Killspells rip it apart, it has 0 ways to deal with threats, is inconsistent (can just not hit enough creatures in the yard)
To top it all off, the deck runs 20 lands and actually expects to cast a 5 mana spell when it wants to.
/facepalm
Not being the OP, but being a person who realizes that there is a person behind that post, you need to chill. The original post has been modified, and it has had 6 pages of support and people trying it. While I don't know if you are trolling or not, it is irrelevant, because either way, your comment had no intellectual merit to it (besides the spellbomb comment, which fewer and fewer decks run because solar flare is LOLost).
So seriously, take your negativity back to your parents and tell them that they should have raised you better. Just because you are on the internetz and no one can see you doesn't mean that you have to be a dbag.
Honestly, test it... I was balking at the 20 lands as well... until I saw how Mulch helped me rarely miss a drop. It wasn't long ago when 22 lands was considered "too much." It's only within the last few years have we started cramming as much mana into decks as possible.
And yes, Solar Flare has become far less the juggernaut it once was. Spellbomb might be in SBs still, but certainly not as a 4-of.
I still am failing to see how to "stomps"/"walks all over" MBI. All we have to do is wound your mana dorks, removal spell a creature and swing in the air with our stinger or inkmoth w/wo our lashwrithe. The likelyhood of you milling your beast or dismember is very likely.
I find that Lunge is the card that is the centerpiece of the deck. It's nice to have Splinterfright and maybe a Boneyard beatdown a bit (possibly even a Cagebreakers), but really I'm trying to setup a massive attack and that usually comes from Lunge. At least, that's how I've won all my games so far.
I've been playing with 4x Reanimating Skeleton in the SB as well versus control. Might as well keep bringing multiples of those back over and over again...
Double posts merged and warned.
Currently working on: BUGSelf-Mill
And I'm hardly making that claim...
Wurm is nice late game, and being cheap enough for a Lunge effect. 3 mana for a 8-12 damage kill after someone DOJ's is pretty wacky (and happened to me in a game 1 versus tokens).
I do agree on the poor hands early game. Mulch is totally key. I might start bringing back Forbidden Alchemy as well, but the problem I found was that when I had it in hand, I wanted to play something else, and when it was in the yard, I had already won or was about to win when I could cast it (or was too far behind to have it matter much). It's why I started testing Beast Within... because I knew the token was not at all an issue, and I could hopfully catch up depending on what I blew up on their end. Also it's fun being able to Beast your own Bird late game and pump the Fright/Wurm/Cagebreaker.
As for Viper... I like it as a 2-of, with 2 more in the side versus faster decks. Seems nice, and I always was happy to have him when I needed a chump.
On a side note, awesome looking deck. I love the fact that it is so budget yet it seems like a blast to play.
It may be worth running some non-GY dependent finisher, as a 1-2 of, to avoid issues of losing the GY. This is what I do. Well, 3 slots on a non-GY finisher.
WRGBCombo MillWRGB
???
Modern:
UUWWErayo AffinityWWUU
WWGUEnchantress ControlUGWW
EDH:
GGBBGlissa MultiplayerBBGG
RRRRKazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs Land DestructionRRRR
For me, my GY tossing is geared toward uncontrolled, and I find that I never want more than 1 Forbidden Alchemy, I only ever want to hit Mulch in the early game, and I'm always happy to see Dream Twist.
WRGBCombo MillWRGB
???
Modern:
UUWWErayo AffinityWWUU
WWGUEnchantress ControlUGWW
EDH:
GGBBGlissa MultiplayerBBGG
RRRRKazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs Land DestructionRRRR
..as long as the Drownyard isn't targetting the guy playing this deck.
WRGBCombo MillWRGB
???
Modern:
UUWWErayo AffinityWWUU
WWGUEnchantress ControlUGWW
EDH:
GGBBGlissa MultiplayerBBGG
RRRRKazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs Land DestructionRRRR
think molten tail masticore can make the cut? seems like a good sac outlet (and gets around mirran crusader)
If you go to the dredge thread you can find some more decks that utilize those cards. =)
Currently working on: BUGSelf-Mill
That and early game the Skaab blocks him nicely. By the time they slap a bunch of crap on him, we usually have a couple of huge beasties out. I'd also say this is one thing worth SBing in Vengefull Pharohs for.
If you want to try and peddle your pharaohs take it to that silly dredge thread where the bad ideas hang out (just kidding)
But really the idea here is simply getting some mill going to throw a few creatures in the graveyard and then start playing relevant threats such as splinter, splinter and his bros NEED to be dealt with we can use ambush viper to fuel the graveyards a bit more and stall for time
then we try to cagebreak about turn 5-6 and hope it sticks and swing ftw
when they remove cagebreak we try to postmortem lunge, and hope it works this time
Its almost better to think of it as a combo deck imo
this is a cool idea do you think there is some way to do a G/W list?
I get it... I do... but you're also ignoring Mirran Crusader which really IS our biggest threat next to Nihil Spellbomb. It's all well and good to hope they'll keep him back to use as a blocker... but you and I both know that they'd likely rather throw a ton of Swords/Angelics on him and swing for unblockable.
So as much as I dislike Pharoah... he's also an answer for those who's metas are chalked full of Crusaders.
No it can't. Pharoh's ability targets.
Currently working on: BUGSelf-Mill
What about splashing in a little bit of black so that you can recast alchemy as well as have spot removal so you can wallop with the scary critters?
MTGS egos at their finest.
Thoughts on proxies:
A single Nihil Spellbomb destroys the deck. Killspells rip it apart, it has 0 ways to deal with threats, is inconsistent (can just not hit enough creatures in the yard)
To top it all off, the deck runs 20 lands and actually expects to cast a 5 mana spell when it wants to.
/facepalm
Let's be civil here, flame warning issued.
Not being the OP, but being a person who realizes that there is a person behind that post, you need to chill. The original post has been modified, and it has had 6 pages of support and people trying it. While I don't know if you are trolling or not, it is irrelevant, because either way, your comment had no intellectual merit to it (besides the spellbomb comment, which fewer and fewer decks run because solar flare is LOLost).
So seriously, take your negativity back to your parents and tell them that they should have raised you better. Just because you are on the internetz and no one can see you doesn't mean that you have to be a dbag.
MTGS egos at their finest.
Thoughts on proxies:
And yes, Solar Flare has become far less the juggernaut it once was. Spellbomb might be in SBs still, but certainly not as a 4-of.