How? He's just another EOT Doom Blade target. With permission decks running 8-10 removals, 4-8 counterspells, and 4 Snapcasters, no one will blink an eye destroying a Mayor. He is definitely better than Viridian in that match-up, but he's still just a road bump. We also get no value out of him from a Slagstorm, etc, which kills both him, his night side, and the tokens he makes. Viridian is part of your ramp package that is getting the turn 4 Titan - the longer we wait to drop Titan against control, the harder the rest of the game will be.
With that in mind I will definitely be trying him out. He can be a threat, which makes the threat count ridiculous... but he can also just be a 1/1 for 2.
Exactly. One less removal spell for other threats. It's not a bad TD either. I'll be testing it.
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He only needs it for Kessig, and with Rampant Growh, Primeval, and Solemn he should have no problem fetching it, plus there are Birds in there too.
Would blow if someone destroyed it though lol. Seems like the logical solution might be to not run 1 Mountain... but 2. That's tech right there.
Holy crap he isn't just cat like...he's einstein like!
lol but seriously i love the Dungrove tech. May give me the edge i need in the mirror, and seems good vs. UB Control. Turn 2 Mayor, they kill it then we cast Dungrove and watch it grow
I took out 1 forest and 1 inkmoth for a woodland cemetary and a swamp to run a singleton glissa in the maindeck. Has worked well since she can be tutored with GSZ and is a great wolfrun target.
Sadly monogreen bends to a UW Hero Blade deck, if they resolve a mirran crusader after wiping the board you're in the worse shape ever. I'll stick to the GR version.
How does this Sidebord look? (I'm currently still playing the exact list from the OP with two changes:
-1 Green sun's Zenith +1 Devil's Play
-1 Forest + 1 Ghost Quarter
3 Ancient Grudge vs. UW, PureSteel, Tezzeret(still played in my shop)
3 Mayor of Avabruck vs. UB control (how does this help when they have plenti of removal?)2 Engulfing Slagwurm vs. Mirror (comes down too late to matter. against mirror you want ancient grudge-4 inkmoth- or spellskite-redirect their wolfrun pump)2 Tree of Redemption vs. RDW, other Red base aggro decks
2 Thrun, the Last Troll vs. UW, UB control
1 Slagstorm vs. Tokens, Humans, RDW
1 Primeval Titan vs. Mirror, UB control
1 Ghost Quarter vs. Mirror, UB control (kill Nephalia Drawnyard) (one elixir of imortality and maybe one buried ruin if your worried about getting milled) Engulfing slagwurm has been pretty awesome in my testing so far. It's an extra threat they need to get rid off with beast within. Titans can't attack into it and if you give him trample with Kessig Wolf Run, he's virtually unblockable. One more power and toughness make him a 3 turn clock instead of a titan's/wurmcoils 4 turn clock. He's been great for destroying opposing garruk's. I've been trying him in the token matchup as well, where he's surprisingly good. They can't chump/killblock him all day long if you got a Kessig Wolf Run out, no matter how big their tokens are. Might be a bit slow, but hey, that's what testing is for.
I hope they reprint something like Obstinate Baloth though, Tree of Redemption still feels a bit slow.
not grave yard hate?
you running swords of feast and famine?
not grave yard hate?
you running swords of feast and famine?
You really don't need graveyard hate for the most part. Any deck you'd be worried about it from you can usually steamroll before they get a chance to go anywhere. I took the OP's 75 to states this past weekend and took 2nd place, and that list doesn't run any GY hate. It just isn't necessary for deck's that we're seeing at the moment.
2 Garruk, Primal Hunter
3 Thrun
3 Sword of FnF
2 Acidic Slime
1 Tree of redemption
1 slagstorm
3 Ancient Grudge
Yes 8 Garruks in the 75. I found Relentless stalls all in agro decks enough to hit a Titan with good life total and finish the game. He works wonders on killing mana dorks and/or agro. Once he flips I can search up the Titans/Dungrove/Thrun/Slime and play them in the same turn, normally fetching a land or drawing a card in the process.
Against Control I prefer 4 Primal Hunters for the card draw. We need to keep up with counters/removal and Primal Hunter is the best we have to even up the card adv. Thrun and swords come in.
In Mirror I found 4 Primal and 2 Relentless ensures I win the Garruk war, which in the mirror makes the difference. Acidic Slime, Thrun, and Swords also come in. I normally take out Zenith, Slagstorm, and Dungrove. Connecting with sword of FnF and preventing them from playing a Garruk (due to my 6) wins the game. 3 Slimes, 4 Beast Within, and 2 Ghost Quater takes care of Wolf run/Inkmoth.
I upped the land to 27 due to Ghost Quarter but also found I have Titan/Garruk mana every time now.
The biggest surprise to me was Relentless, I started with 2 but after a few matches I always wanted him Turn 3/4 to kill a creature or add a 2/2 wolf for pressure. I also started with Wurmcoils in the 75, just moved to side, but with Relentless I found I did not need the lifegain as much (most of the time I would not even search up tree with Zenith).
The main reason for the change was due to the fact I was tired of everyone making a copy of my Wurmcoil for 2-3 mana. They can copy the Titan, norammly they fetch dual lands which is not a big deal and next turn when I attack we trade even instead of him getting 6 life and two 3/3s. What we get with Titan turns everything into a win condition, it just adds land for them which normally does not matter at that point.
Yeah, Dungrove Elder starts to look like Tarmogoyf in that list, but I dunno if Owen should have been running so few red sources.
Im running a very similar list with an extra mountain. It wrecks original WRR and has a much better Solar Flare matchup. Wrecks RDW. Wrecks anything besides Solar Flare/UB Control...but still has great matchups against them. Humans/TS can steal a game or two with nut draws.
I've mentioned transitioning this deck to G/W with a splash for activating Kessig Wolf Run in this thread before, and the response was ... less than positive.
But the deck I'm talking about took 2nd at Delaware States, piloted by the 2010 PA State champ, so I figure it can't hurt to post the list. This list went undefeated in the Swiss (5-0 with 2 IDs) and then got to the finals and placed second behind another WRR deck. Maybe it's a bad deck, I don't know, but it did win 7 consecutive matches in a semi-competitive setting, so I strongly suggest that people at least test with it. Obviously this past weekend impacted the meta and some changes to the deck should be made to reflect that, but I still like the concept.
But the deck I'm talking about took 2nd at Delaware States, piloted by the 2010 PA State champ, so I figure it can't hurt to post the list. This list went undefeated in the Swiss (5-0 with 2 IDs) and then got to the finals and placed second behind another WRR deck. Maybe it's a bad deck, I don't know, but it did win 7 consecutive matches in a semi-competitive setting, so I strongly suggest that people at least test with it. Obviously this past weekend impacted the meta and some changes to the deck should be made to reflect that, but I still like the concept.
I've mentioned transitioning this deck to G/W with a splash for activating Kessig Wolf Run in this thread before, and the response was ... less than positive.
But the deck I'm talking about took 2nd at Delaware States, piloted by the 2010 PA State champ, so I figure it can't hurt to post the list. This list went undefeated in the Swiss (5-0 with 2 IDs) and then got to the finals and placed second behind another WRR deck. Maybe it's a bad deck, I don't know, but it did win 7 consecutive matches in a semi-competitive setting, so I strongly suggest that people at least test with it. Obviously this past weekend impacted the meta and some changes to the deck should be made to reflect that, but I still like the concept.
eh. I don't know how to say this nicely, but wolf run was literally the only deck (outside of maybe a true control deck that would have been rogue) that was a correct choice for states.
Any and all variants of the deck crushed everything, because the engine of the deck is so powerful.
Again, I'm not trying to invalidate anyone's results, but reading tournament reports -- it's obvious that a lot of winners simply played a real deck against opponents who weren't playing real decks.
Like, did this do well because it has gideon? Or did making the deck worse not matter, because a bunch of people showed up to this tournament with the wrong deck?
It's going to take a few weeks of results coming in to really find out.
eh. I don't know how to say this nicely, but wolf run was literally the only deck (outside of maybe a true control deck that would have been rogue) that was a correct choice for states.
Any and all variants of the deck crushed everything, because the engine of the deck is so powerful.
Again, I'm not trying to invalidate anyone's results, but reading tournament reports -- it's obvious that a lot of winners simply played a real deck against opponents who weren't playing real decks.
Like, did this do well because it has gideon? Or did making the deck worse not matter, because a bunch of people showed up to this tournament with the wrong deck?
It's going to take a few weeks of results coming in to really find out.
G/W? Why would that be a good transition?
I still think a mix of Relentless/Primal Hunter will end up being crucial for the deck, and I think the 4th place Brisbane list is something to really look at.
Went 3-2 at states, losses due to mana screw (against U/W tapout) and me facing a much better player and being soundly outplayed in games a better player would have won (again U/B). Played against U/Bx2, U/W control, U/W tapout, and Solar Flare. Played against 18-19 flashfreezes post-board (4-1 in 1st games, with a punt on my loss.)
Obviously, I wish I had run the Dungrove version against that gauntlet, but there were plenty of aggro decks near me all day for which I would have really wanted the Slagstorms.
1) 3 Wolf Run main - I faced Ghost Quarter in every deck last weekend (not sure how Solar Flare has room for it, but Sun Titan + Ghost Quarter is tough), so I went up to 3. I find early red to be more of an issue than early green, so I cut one forest.
2) Daybreak Ranger main and in the board - lots of decks running nexus. A few running Moorland Haunt and Midnight Haunting. This takes those out nicely. This has tested as a good card in the (non-Dungrove) mirror. As the deck gets more popular, I like maindeck answers for the mirror, but I want to test other answers here. My only use I got out of it at states was killing Hero of Bladehold, but that was pretty important. I cut one Wurmcoil for it and if I thought my meta was more aggro heavy, I'd get that Wurmcoil back in the main and just put one of these in the side.
3) 3 Swords in the side - seems like people are trending away from swords, which I was a few days ago as well, but I still think Thrun (or Dungrove) + Sword is a good plan against U/B.
4) Dismembers in the board - in testing, Hero of Bladehold was a major problem for me and I also wanted to stop a couple of rushes with spells that couldn't be easily Mana Leaked against fast draws by U/W humans/tapout.
5) Garruk Relentless as a 1 of - worth noting you can play the first Garruk in the mirror on the draw.
Deck has been a blast to play and I hope aggro stays a large enough percentage of the meta to keep decks from hating too hard on this. The Dungrove plan might be better now.
Decks with only mana leaks as counters main are in terrible shape against this deck Game 1. So I expect to see more and more dissipates main.
You took out Wurmcoils to add FOUR Garruk Relentless? Is he really THAT much better against the mirror? Also, hows the "Dungrove" List? What's it look like, is the one with ONE dungrove lol?
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Thrun is fun against control but not really that great. EVERYONE is packing Phantasmal Image to get rid of him and he is easily blocked by sun titan or wurmcoil etc. That being said I would still never go less than than 2 in the 75.
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EDH RADAMARO, FIRST TO DESIRER UKEFNET THE MINDFULU GSASAYA, OROCHI ASCENDANTG MODERN RMONO-RED ELDRAZIR
The reason why GW/r is a good idea is that you get access to a few cards that give Dungrove lists a fit without having to compromise your aggro matches.
Mirran Crusader, for example. All you have to do is sit on him, swinging when you can, until you find a sword or a wolf run. With either, he closes out the game nearly immediately.
Most of the new U/B decks cropping up to battle wolf run have very few answers to him, and having access to Obi ring gives you a catch-all that's immune to flashfreeze.
Being the wolf run deck that has inevitability against Dungrove seems like a pretty good reason to splash... Not to mention you net a lot of good anti-aggro cards and better positioning against flashfreeze.
The meta after last weekend is one gunning for us. You have to expect to win every single match against decks heavily prepared for stock GR and Dungrove ramp lists.
Why llanowar elves in that list??
The reason for the elves/birds is to ramp 1-3-4-6 instead of 1-2-4-6. It lets you get Dungrove out on turn 2, racing mana leak, and allows him not to compete with simulacrum.
Well, what's better for the current meta?
Thanks Hero's of the Plane
Modern
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xRxAffinityxRx
Exactly. One less removal spell for other threats. It's not a bad TD either. I'll be testing it.
"In a world where money talks, silence is horrifying."
Ashcoat Bear of Limited
Yeah, Dungrove Elder starts to look like Tarmogoyf in that list, but I dunno if Owen should have been running so few red sources.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
~~~~~
He only needs it for Kessig, and with Rampant Growh, Primeval, and Solemn he should have no problem fetching it, plus there are Birds in there too.
Would blow if someone destroyed it though lol. Seems like the logical solution might be to not run 1 Mountain... but 2. That's tech right there.
Holy crap he isn't just cat like...he's einstein like!
lol but seriously i love the Dungrove tech. May give me the edge i need in the mirror, and seems good vs. UB Control. Turn 2 Mayor, they kill it then we cast Dungrove and watch it grow
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Modern
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not grave yard hate?
you running swords of feast and famine?
Props to DarkNightCavalier 4 da banner and SGT_Chubbz 4 avvie, here
Standard
GRAggro
GRWNaya Purphoros
GWAggro Retired 9/19/2014
RGPrimeval Titan RIP
1/5/2010 - 9/30/2011
Top 4 Channelfireball Winter series 5k Feb. 2011
3rd at California National Qualifiers 2011
40th at GP SLC 2012
Find me on MTGO @ Ruslvmusl91
You really don't need graveyard hate for the most part. Any deck you'd be worried about it from you can usually steamroll before they get a chance to go anywhere. I took the OP's 75 to states this past weekend and took 2nd place, and that list doesn't run any GY hate. It just isn't necessary for deck's that we're seeing at the moment.
Land:
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Inkmoth
2 Wolf Run
4 Mountains
17 forest
Main:
-1 Birds / +1 Dungrove Elder
-2 Garruk, Primal Hunter / +2 Garruk Relentless
-2 Wurmcoil / +2 Garruk Relentless
-1 Wurmcoil / +1 Karn
Side:
2 Garruk, Primal Hunter
3 Thrun
3 Sword of FnF
2 Acidic Slime
1 Tree of redemption
1 slagstorm
3 Ancient Grudge
Yes 8 Garruks in the 75. I found Relentless stalls all in agro decks enough to hit a Titan with good life total and finish the game. He works wonders on killing mana dorks and/or agro. Once he flips I can search up the Titans/Dungrove/Thrun/Slime and play them in the same turn, normally fetching a land or drawing a card in the process.
Against Control I prefer 4 Primal Hunters for the card draw. We need to keep up with counters/removal and Primal Hunter is the best we have to even up the card adv. Thrun and swords come in.
In Mirror I found 4 Primal and 2 Relentless ensures I win the Garruk war, which in the mirror makes the difference. Acidic Slime, Thrun, and Swords also come in. I normally take out Zenith, Slagstorm, and Dungrove. Connecting with sword of FnF and preventing them from playing a Garruk (due to my 6) wins the game. 3 Slimes, 4 Beast Within, and 2 Ghost Quater takes care of Wolf run/Inkmoth.
I upped the land to 27 due to Ghost Quarter but also found I have Titan/Garruk mana every time now.
The biggest surprise to me was Relentless, I started with 2 but after a few matches I always wanted him Turn 3/4 to kill a creature or add a 2/2 wolf for pressure. I also started with Wurmcoils in the 75, just moved to side, but with Relentless I found I did not need the lifegain as much (most of the time I would not even search up tree with Zenith).
The main reason for the change was due to the fact I was tired of everyone making a copy of my Wurmcoil for 2-3 mana. They can copy the Titan, norammly they fetch dual lands which is not a big deal and next turn when I attack we trade even instead of him getting 6 life and two 3/3s. What we get with Titan turns everything into a win condition, it just adds land for them which normally does not matter at that point.
Im running a very similar list with an extra mountain. It wrecks original WRR and has a much better Solar Flare matchup. Wrecks RDW. Wrecks anything besides Solar Flare/UB Control...but still has great matchups against them. Humans/TS can steal a game or two with nut draws.
But the deck I'm talking about took 2nd at Delaware States, piloted by the 2010 PA State champ, so I figure it can't hurt to post the list. This list went undefeated in the Swiss (5-0 with 2 IDs) and then got to the finals and placed second behind another WRR deck. Maybe it's a bad deck, I don't know, but it did win 7 consecutive matches in a semi-competitive setting, so I strongly suggest that people at least test with it. Obviously this past weekend impacted the meta and some changes to the deck should be made to reflect that, but I still like the concept.
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Mayor of Avabruck
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
2 Primeval Titan
3 Solemn Simulacrum
4 Viridian Emissary
2 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Garruk, Primal Hunter
2 Gideon Jura
1 Batterskull
4 Beast Within
3 Day of Judgment
3 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Rampant Growth
4 Inkmoth Nexus
2 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Mountain
2 Plains
3 Razorverge Thicket
2 Rootbound Crag
3 Sunpetal Grove
1 Day of Judgment
2 Naturalize
3 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Sword of Feast and Famine
2 Thrun, the Last Troll
3 Timely Reinforcements
1 Viridian Corrupter
Thanks to Gabgabdevo for the awesome sig image!
I'm always looking for foil Madcap Skills and Ghitu Fire-Eater, [trade thread link forthcoming]
Similar deck also has consistent placing on mtgo.
eh. I don't know how to say this nicely, but wolf run was literally the only deck (outside of maybe a true control deck that would have been rogue) that was a correct choice for states.
Any and all variants of the deck crushed everything, because the engine of the deck is so powerful.
Again, I'm not trying to invalidate anyone's results, but reading tournament reports -- it's obvious that a lot of winners simply played a real deck against opponents who weren't playing real decks.
Like, did this do well because it has gideon? Or did making the deck worse not matter, because a bunch of people showed up to this tournament with the wrong deck?
It's going to take a few weeks of results coming in to really find out.
*DCI Rules Advisor*
G/W? Why would that be a good transition?
I still think a mix of Relentless/Primal Hunter will end up being crucial for the deck, and I think the 4th place Brisbane list is something to really look at.
Obviously, I wish I had run the Dungrove version against that gauntlet, but there were plenty of aggro decks near me all day for which I would have really wanted the Slagstorms.
Here's what I have right now
8 Forest
3 Mountain
4 Copperline Gorge
4 Rootbound Crag
3 Kessig Wolf Run
4 Inkmouth
Creatures
4 Viridian Emmisary
3 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Daybreak Ranger
1 Acidic Slime
2 Wurmcoil Engine
3 Primeval Tital
3 Garruk, Primal Hunter
1 Garruk Relentless
Instants
4 Beast Within
Sorceries
3 Slagstorm
4 Rampant Growth
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of War and Peace
1 Daybreak Ranger
3 Ancient Grudge
1 Tree of Redemption
1 Virdian Corruputer
1 Slagstorm
2 Dismember
On the non-conventional choices -
1) 3 Wolf Run main - I faced Ghost Quarter in every deck last weekend (not sure how Solar Flare has room for it, but Sun Titan + Ghost Quarter is tough), so I went up to 3. I find early red to be more of an issue than early green, so I cut one forest.
2) Daybreak Ranger main and in the board - lots of decks running nexus. A few running Moorland Haunt and Midnight Haunting. This takes those out nicely. This has tested as a good card in the (non-Dungrove) mirror. As the deck gets more popular, I like maindeck answers for the mirror, but I want to test other answers here. My only use I got out of it at states was killing Hero of Bladehold, but that was pretty important. I cut one Wurmcoil for it and if I thought my meta was more aggro heavy, I'd get that Wurmcoil back in the main and just put one of these in the side.
3) 3 Swords in the side - seems like people are trending away from swords, which I was a few days ago as well, but I still think Thrun (or Dungrove) + Sword is a good plan against U/B.
4) Dismembers in the board - in testing, Hero of Bladehold was a major problem for me and I also wanted to stop a couple of rushes with spells that couldn't be easily Mana Leaked against fast draws by U/W humans/tapout.
5) Garruk Relentless as a 1 of - worth noting you can play the first Garruk in the mirror on the draw.
Deck has been a blast to play and I hope aggro stays a large enough percentage of the meta to keep decks from hating too hard on this. The Dungrove plan might be better now.
Decks with only mana leaks as counters main are in terrible shape against this deck Game 1. So I expect to see more and more dissipates main.
Also, despise was very good against me.
RADAMARO, FIRST TO DESIRER
UKEFNET THE MINDFULU
GSASAYA, OROCHI ASCENDANTG
MODERN
RMONO-RED ELDRAZIR
For me to play the deck this weekend, its going to have to beat
RG Ramp
Mono Black Infect
Aggro decks
Solar Flare
if i can beat these decks I'm gonna be good. I realize it'll be hard but I'm a good player so i think i can do it we'll see.
Plus me having thrun doesn't help my control matchup so i need to build my list accordingly. Any suggestions?
EDIT: 500 Posts! yay lol
Thanks Hero's of the Plane
Modern
-------------
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RADAMARO, FIRST TO DESIRER
UKEFNET THE MINDFULU
GSASAYA, OROCHI ASCENDANTG
MODERN
RMONO-RED ELDRAZIR
Thanks Hero's of the Plane
Modern
-------------
xRxAffinityxRx
No, the Dungrove List looks like this.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
~~~~~
Thanks Hero's of the Plane
Modern
-------------
xRxAffinityxRx
The reason why GW/r is a good idea is that you get access to a few cards that give Dungrove lists a fit without having to compromise your aggro matches.
Mirran Crusader, for example. All you have to do is sit on him, swinging when you can, until you find a sword or a wolf run. With either, he closes out the game nearly immediately.
Most of the new U/B decks cropping up to battle wolf run have very few answers to him, and having access to Obi ring gives you a catch-all that's immune to flashfreeze.
Being the wolf run deck that has inevitability against Dungrove seems like a pretty good reason to splash... Not to mention you net a lot of good anti-aggro cards and better positioning against flashfreeze.
The meta after last weekend is one gunning for us. You have to expect to win every single match against decks heavily prepared for stock GR and Dungrove ramp lists.
The reason for the elves/birds is to ramp 1-3-4-6 instead of 1-2-4-6. It lets you get Dungrove out on turn 2, racing mana leak, and allows him not to compete with simulacrum.
hmmm only 1 wolf run seems pretty dangerous to me as well as only 1 mountain. you would think that list would easily be hated on with ghost quarter.
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