Why doesn't Mul Daya Channelers see play? With the exception of just a handful of cards for the decks not running Planeswalkers or Monuments, it's either a 5/5 or gives you mana. Is it the knowledge drawback or the already clustered 3 drop slot or both?
Ive wanted to test it. but it still seems sub par. reason being, its a coin toss of whether its what you need at the right time or not. and Elves, has an amazing ability to be super-consistent. Mul-daya channelers has a slight problem in that its not consistant at all. in this deck its a random variable that could throw off the whole strategy. sure its a 5/5 beater for 3. but we have plenty of beaters. sure its a mana elf for 3. but we have plenty of those and better ones for 3 mana.
Not to mention with Jace running around fatesealing, you don't want your opponent to know what your drawing. information is a valuable thing, (especially if you opp. doesn't know if the 2 cards in your hand are creatures to bring back 4 vengevines) bottom line i'd rather play other things for 3 mana.
My current list including NPH cards i'll be acquiring pretty easily as my friends are ordering a case :). Comments and criticism would be appreciated. This list OWNS caw-blade like nobody's business, and I think the variety of tutorable answers covers quite a few answers to various threats. Ezuri's Archers are a situational card indeed but I find there is no better elf creature for shooting down that hawk or chumping that Celestial Colonnade for one mana or two with GSZ. I will not run Ezuri as a 4 of because he's just clunky early game to me, I view him as a tutorable win con instead of a battlefield staple.
My current list including NPH cards i'll be acquiring pretty easily as my friends are ordering a case :). Comments and criticism would be appreciated. This list OWNS caw-blade like nobody's business, and I think the variety of tutorable answers covers quite a few answers to various threats. Ezuri's Archers are a situational card indeed but I find there is no better elf creature for shooting down that hawk or chumping that Celestial Colonnade for one mana or two with GSZ. I will not run Ezuri as a 4 of because he's just clunky early game to me, I view him as a tutorable win con instead of a battlefield staple.
Seems like an ok deck, but there are a few changes i would make, although most of them contradict what you have just said.
I do think you need more Ezuri, 3 atleast. maybe take out bellowing tanglewurm.
Put Beast Within in the main deck instead of Lead the Stampede, and Ezuri's Archers. Then put archers in the sb if you really want to keep them.
Your Sideboard seems good. I do like the new Glissa's Scorn instead of Naturalize, its the same and deals an extra damage.
My current list including NPH cards i'll be acquiring pretty easily as my friends are ordering a case :). Comments and criticism would be appreciated. This list OWNS caw-blade like nobody's business, and I think the variety of tutorable answers covers quite a few answers to various threats. Ezuri's Archers are a situational card indeed but I find there is no better elf creature for shooting down that hawk or chumping that Celestial Colonnade for one mana or two with GSZ. I will not run Ezuri as a 4 of because he's just clunky early game to me, I view him as a tutorable win con instead of a battlefield staple.
Okay... im gonna stay calm... you have a good start. but your list has an issue in that it needs direction. your list doesnt seem to have a goal. you have the cards for several different things but you have to hope you get the cards to go down any particular trail.
Good elf decks charge head first down their throats and rip the opponent apart, and if they stop us our back up is throwing vengevines at them till they die. (yes thats a very simplistic way to say it but is true.)
Your deck seems to be running at your opponent while at the same time trying to play the piano, ride a bike, and make an important business call.
Keep the deck simple. that is what gives elves its strength. and i honestly can't support any current standard elves that runs less than 4 ezuri. You need him, ive been playing elves since ezuri was spoiled. and i can safely say. I always want 4. early game is when he is the best. because HE WINS YOU THE GAME. why wouldnt you run 4?
It does seem scattered at first glance but it actually plays pretty well. 4 shamans and 3 GSZ means I can get out whatever is needed. The only time I find the deck falls over is when I don't draw any tutor whatsoever in combination with a lot of 1-drops (a fairly rare occurance)
I tried running 4 ezuri's main after seeing the setup in so many lists in the past ten pages, but honestly I just don't see the use in him early game. If they aren't running basically the same deck (what deck gets a lot of green dudes other than elves..?), I can get the wurm out even faster and that's giving my vengevines intimidate. This combined with a few elves boosted by Archdruid is a quick game over if they can't block it. Wurm is 4/4 so it can't get bolted like ezuri does all day long. It's not doing 4 things at once it does 2, wurm OR ezuri.
I totally hear your jump down the opposition's throat strategy, but really if I gear this deck to slap that hard I find it falls apart after day of judgement. I like the beast within for lead the stampede idea though, been looking for a way to oust that card for a second. I think I'll fill the two sideboard slots with 2-3 Fresh Meat as a post-board response to DoJ. Also considering moving slime to SB.
It does seem scattered at first glance but it actually plays pretty well. 4 shamans and 3 GSZ means I can get out whatever is needed. The only time I find the deck falls over is when I don't draw any tutor whatsoever in combination with a lot of 1-drops (a fairly rare occurance)
I tried running 4 ezuri's main after seeing the setup in so many lists in the past ten pages, but honestly I just don't see the use in him early game. If they aren't running basically the same deck (what deck gets a lot of green dudes other than elves..?), I can get the wurm out even faster and that's giving my vengevines intimidate. This combined with a few elves boosted by Archdruid is a quick game over if they can't block it. Wurm is 4/4 so it can't get bolted like ezuri does all day long. It's not doing 4 things at once it does 2, wurm OR ezuri.
I totally hear your jump down the opposition's throat strategy, but really if I gear this deck to slap that hard I find it falls apart after day of judgement. I like the beast within for lead the stampede idea though, been looking for a way to oust that card for a second. I think I'll fill the two sideboard slots with 2-3 Fresh Meat as a post-board response to DoJ. Also considering moving slime to SB.
Honestly, ezuri is a 4of because he allows the t4 kill.(which happens A LOT!) he lets your entire board live through DoJ. early game he is amazing. and you need 4 because he is so fragile. ezuri comes down and puts a huge target on his face that says "KILL ME NOW OR IM GONNA KILL YOU!" now if they kill him you have another. if they don't kill him. you win. simple as that no matter how it works you win.
now looking at your list you are gonna have issues after a DoJ because you have so many non-creature spells main that it ruins the amazing draw power that LTS gives us. LTS allows you to be wrathed. then on your very next turn have a full board without missing a beat. your opponent will be overwhelmed before they have a chance to stop you. My record is 7 complete wraths and still winning the game. my deck is about as breakneck as you can get, and i shake off wrath effects easily, so if you build it right you can too.
now Ezuri's archers.... is just bad... sure he chump block. but elves doesnt care to chump block. we want to keep a constant offensive so they are the ones forced to chump block. our defense is our offense.
the wurm is okay.. and ill admit i have played it before.. its not nearly as good as our other options.
and by not being directed. i mean your deck has...
vengevine package
nissa package
tanglewurm
Corrupter+slime
tech-edge
archers
you basically took every elf variant, including the budget one. and crammed them into one deck. You have too much defense clouding your offense, and your offense is too spread out among different strategies.
Nissa's Chosen is painful to include sometimes but having a blocker that can die and pop out again next turn has proven invaluable on more than one occasion. The real reason she's in there is because she is essentially two wellwishers in one with haste. The low loyalty almost ensures she's getting pwned immediately, but if they don't have removal to handle that they have to attack it with whatever which can leave vulnerable spots open.
Agree to disagree on the ezuri, I have yet to take this list to FNM so if I realize through getting spanked repeatedly there that I need to run 4 I have no problem making the change.
The archers are there as a one-of so I'm not getting pinged to death by some 2/2 flyer all game, without them there a unanswered sword hawk flies straight into my face. Probably unnecessary with beast within and brittle effigy now so I can probably move them out.
Without lead the stampede around (more situational than archers in my opinion) I can move in some Fresh Meat sideboard. So close to Caller of the Claw it kills me
I don't really think of vengevine/shaman as a package in this deck, shaman being an economic 2/2 elf makes her a good attacker and synergy with copperhorn scout makes her tutor extremely dangerous. I was trying to build this deck around no vengevine but after proxying in 4 I had to modify the deck to make him as annoying as possible. Such a great 4-drop and shooting him out of the GY is too satisfying. With the deck having 2 directions it's sometimes a little more challenging getting him out for free but I still pull it off constantly.
Putting slime in the sideboard. Corruptor and beast within maindeck should be enough permanent hate.
edit: Oh snap an extra slot opened up maindeck. I'll put in a 3rd Ezuri to make you happy btw I can't thank you all (especially kolo) enough for being so immediate with feedback, this forum is awesomely busy.
Probably even more reason to remove him (which I just did). And yes that would be leonin skyhunter in my buddies knight deck haha, pesky creature for me when +1+1 and indestructible due to exemplar. What's funnier is that he hasn't been siding it out I guess we're a bunch of noobs x_x
I like glissa's scorn but the reason naturalize is really there is for enchantment hate. Another area covered by beast within (whoever says it's not crazy dank has lost marbles) but I don't want to attribute too many problems solved to one card I have yet to playtest.
I thought I could do just that, but tutoring for a slime + casting it is a bit slow compared to 2cmc instant speed removal. Outside of honor of the pure I'm thinking about Dark Tutelage and the various leylines going bye bye ASAP. There is only 2 natural ice (as i call it) there, 4 would be overkill I think. If I were running 4 instants for that I'd probably make 2 of them scorn (life loss is pretty cool) but I don't really have the space. This is where beast within comes in yet again, if it weren't for this card being printed I'd definitely be considering 4 instants with all the nasty control artifacts in NPH.
Waiting for all my friends to come back from easter weekend home trips so I can playtest this a little before I ramble on ITT more.
Enchantment hate isn't required greatly in the current meta and you can tutor for acidic slime if someone drops an honor of the pure against you. Thats why i've gone for just glissas scorn in my post NPH build over naturalize (I want to win a game just playing that:D)
Haha, i totally agree, and i too would love to win with my Nissa's Scorn.
It's taking the important part of naturalize and adding some burn on it too, what more could you want
@ Bassist
Good to see you've configured your deck a bit.
I look forward to seeing some matchup results after your FNM, and if it goes well stick with it, its your FNM after all, not ours.
If it doesn't go well, like you say, maybe take a few more of our suggestions, maybe even copy one of our decks
IDk about you guys but beast within is going to take up 4 slots in my 75. at least 2 main. and fresh meat... its almost a better caller of the claw. i can definately see testing it, and most likely SB-ing. it could be too clunky keeping 4 up but i doubt it.
beast within will probably replace naturalize/natures claim altogether. even the plummets in the side. its just so versitile.
beast within seems amazing when our turns go T1 llany. t2 beast within your land. on the play.
2. If yes, how will it affect the playing of Lead the Stampede?
And does it make sense to main both? (is it possible?)
it would probably have to jump in a GSZ slot. and a LTS slot. making lts a 3 of in my deck. this would let us keep the creature spells high. while still maintaining the integrity of the deck. from my list it will be
MD
-1 GSZ -1 LTS +2 beast within
SB
-2 plummet +2 beast within
of course if fresh meat is up to snuff it may replace LTS altogether allowing us to run more non-creature spells.
Garruk is horrible in a good elf deck for one reason. Ezuri.
Also no elves should be running rief. Cipt lands are bad for elves.
- Ezuri dies to removal really easily, and other than Archdruid, is an opponent's #1 target.
- Garruk lets you untap lands for Vengevine triggers. He also provides sac-fodder for Monument.
- Garruk's overrun affects everything on the board, not just elves: so those two Vengevines you recurred from the graveyard? Yep, they're 7/6s with trample.
I'd argue that Garruk fits into the deck better than Nissa. Nissa provides life-gain but that's not nearly as important as being able to swing w/ multiple Vengevines and elves on turn 5 w/ overrun (double if you add in Ezuri).
I can't tell you how many times I've ramped into Garruk on t3 and on t4, been able to double overrun w/ Llanowar, Arbor, Vengevine for 24 damage.
And I don't see why people don't like Oran-Rief. Even as a four-of, starting your hand w/ Llanowar, Arbor, Forest, Forest, Archdruid is incredibly common. Then again, if you're not running Warcaller, there's no point in running Oran-Rief.
- Ezuri dies to removal really easily, and other than Archdruid, is an opponent's #1 target.
- Garruk lets you untap lands for Vengevine triggers. He also provides sac-fodder for Monument.
- Garruk's overrun affects everything on the board, not just elves: so those two Vengevines you recurred from the graveyard? Yep, they're 7/6s with trample.
I'd argue that Garruk fits into the deck better than Nissa. Nissa provides life-gain but that's not nearly as important as being able to swing w/ multiple Vengevines and elves on turn 5 w/ overrun (double if you add in Ezuri).
I can't tell you how many times I've ramped into Garruk on t3 and on t4, been able to double overrun w/ Llanowar, Arbor, Vengevine for 24 damage.
And I don't see why people don't like Oran-Rief. Even as a four-of, starting your hand w/ Llanowar, Arbor, Forest, Forest, Archdruid is incredibly common. Then again, if you're not running Warcaller, there's no point in running Oran-Rief.
I don't know about Koloblicin and others, but it's getting a little old trying to explain why Ezuri is sooo good. So just read back
And CIPT lands slow the deck down, end of.
I mean look at Koloblicin's results
28 - 10 - 4
thats very good
my deck build has only been around to go to one event,
but i went 4 - 1 (losing against a more aggro UW Caw Blade)
And i beat a pro-tor top 16'er - mark glenister that made me happy
I'm going to my Tuesday Night Magic tomorrow
So i'll post my results tomorrow
(what is it with you americans, we party on a friday night haha)
p.s. sorry if that was blunt at the beginning, but like i said we've been over it so much through these pages. Lets talk about something new, like the new NPH cards.
Kolo and I are freakishly on the same page. I checked his decklist and we are 1 MD card apart. I run a 20th Forest over a singleton T-Don. In order to fit Beast Within, I had decided to shave 1 GSZ and 1 LTS as well. I'm new to Elves, but maybe that's saying something as to the direction of the deck.
AT MOST leaving 4 slots open, and the slots i left open i personally would just fill with the corresponding card, There isnt a whole lot of room for the deck to move around or dick around, so Just role with the deck as is because it has proven itself on many different occasions, the last two tournaments i went to im now 12-0-2.
Ezuri is good, garruk and monument are bad(for this deck), get over it
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I run a similar build to koloblicin and went 4-2 at a large FNM this past friday. I only missed top eight by a fraction of a point due to tiebreakers. My first match the guy dropped after I beat him turn 4 both games. Sunday I went 3-1 and went to top 4 at a small tournament. Then went 5-0 this past Thursday as well. Ezuri is amazing. I love seeing 2x land, copper horn, 1 mana dork, ezuri, and arch druid and then random other card. Normally that gets me a turn 4 win.
Turn 4 one game I swung with +6/+6 to everyone. Turn five same match up swung for +9/+9. I am just having issues dealing with Blue white control if I don't beat them over the head quick enough. Once Jace, Gideon and a bunch of walls hit the ground it gets tough. I think a lot of issues will get resolved with the beast with in, so I am not too worried.
Almost lost to RDW, but third game got a leyline in my opening hand, and then drew into one on turn 3, well he couldn't keep up with the life gain and at that point with an arch druid on the board, all my elves were out of bolt range.
All in all for just getting back in the game 2 weeks ago, I am making a strong presence with Elves. Some people hate seeing me come in and to play against it.
I disagree that Treespeaker is part of the core, gigafish. I play Sylvan Ranger in that spot for reliability. Sylvan Ranger doesn't ramp, but it gets you back into the game after a sweep. The risk for a huge tempo swing that you take playing Treespeaker, having it die in response to a level up doesn't seem worth it. We've got other means of producing mana, that don't require you to waste mana for nothing. Then again, I've always been a ''sure thing'' player. Also, Sylvan Ranger fetching Forests out of your deck helps ever so slighty for LTS to be that much better.
Treespeaker is where being a good player comes in handy, you dont lvl the treespeaker and you beat in for one, knowing the have that kill spell, And it throws them off guard, this deck isnt just a beat over the head it does take some insight knowledge and keenness to play.
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Treespeaker is where being a good player comes in handy, you dont lvl the treespeaker and you beat in for one, knowing the have that kill spell, And it throws them off guard, this deck isnt just a beat over the head it does take some insight knowledge and keenness to play.
Ok, i think i get it, but please tell me if i'm wrong.
You basically hang onto your treaspeaker un-leveled to make them keep hold of their kill spell? interesting.
What if they're then tapped out, do you level it then?
Surely you might aswell just play the sylvan ranger?
i do run 3x treespeaker and 3x lead the stampede, they are my differences to your initial structure.
Well, yes, obviously. However, being put into that situation sucks. Okay, they have kill spell mana up, it's either a bluff or they have it. I get aggressive and go for it, Treespeaker dies and I lose out. I play safe and don't go for it. Treespeaker sits there and nothing happens. Treespeaker gets killed by that sweeper, I'm left with nothing... Or, you play Ranger, grab your Forest, make LTS a better card, and move on. That's how I feel. Of course, an unchecked Treespeaker is good, but it shouldn't go unchecked.
Some games there isnt an option for them to go unchecked and it makes for nut plays, i guess it really all boils down to what the exact situation is and sometimes you level it because if it dies oh well, or you NEED that mana.
I try not to play treespeaker T1, its the alt turn one if i HAVE to, ~that hand im not gonna mulligain just because i didnt get an arbor elf or llanowar. I dont like the Ranger because it doesnt ramp per say, yeah it *can* help out with LTS, but the % is so low.
The difference it will make in a T2 ranger is 1.9% difference in LTS...Not worth it IMO.
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Of course, an unchecked Treespeaker is good, but it shouldn't go unchecked.
It also may not always be unchecked.
Rangers also help in playing 19 lands which does make me happy.
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Un autre con brandit le drapeau de la nouvelle économie. Agitant sa criminelle thérapie, l'abruti prophá¨te s'en va guerrir le monde de ses maux ! Mais la misá¨re n'a que faire de cette médecine á dose homeopathétique, Il n'y a d'autre cure que l'ablation du liberal-fascisme qui nous ronge. - Amanda Woodward, Un Autre Con
I don't run treespeaker for a simple reason. I play in red-heavy meta's. If i were to be playing in a meta where i Didn't expect many red decks, I would play treespeaker. the card is amazing, there is no doubt. If there is any one card that I wish i could play thats it. But like i said i play in areas where it is too likely that they will just go "in response to the level, bolt it." So treespeakers get less useful, and always get sided out.
It is definately defenseable that treespeaker is part of the elf deck core.
Honestly the simplest core of the deck is
8 llanowar elves
4 archdruid (if you run fewer you deserve to be smacked)
4 Ezuri.
2-4 copperhorn scouts
4 fauna shaman
4 vengevine
cards that vary but are often played
Treespeaker
sylvan ranger
warcaller
(cards that just don't make the cut anymore)
Garruk
nissa
monument viridian emissary. <<--- this card in articular IS JUST BAD. don't run it. Its the only card ive seen run that i will never warrent playing. sylvan ranger is leaps and bounds better.
SB choices
Acidic slime
viridian corrupter
naturalize
leyline of vitality. (if you didn't know... it stops pyroclasm.)
some form of creature spot removal. plummet or brittle effigy, both are defensable.
Soon i plan to have 2 beast within MD and 2 more in the side.
Ive wanted to test it. but it still seems sub par. reason being, its a coin toss of whether its what you need at the right time or not. and Elves, has an amazing ability to be super-consistent. Mul-daya channelers has a slight problem in that its not consistant at all. in this deck its a random variable that could throw off the whole strategy. sure its a 5/5 beater for 3. but we have plenty of beaters. sure its a mana elf for 3. but we have plenty of those and better ones for 3 mana.
Not to mention with Jace running around fatesealing, you don't want your opponent to know what your drawing. information is a valuable thing, (especially if you opp. doesn't know if the 2 cards in your hand are creatures to bring back 4 vengevines) bottom line i'd rather play other things for 3 mana.
Gfast animals slow shildrenG
51-18-4 (retired as of 6-4-11)
3 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
4 Fauna Shaman
4 Vengevine
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Arbor Elves
2 Joraga Treespeaker
4 Elvish Archdruid
3 Copperhorn Scout
1 Viridian Corruptor
1 Bellowing Tanglewurm
2 Nissa's Chosen
2 Nissa Revane
Other Spells
3 Beast Within
3 Green Sun's Zenith
Land
2 Tectonic Edge
18 Forest
1 Beast Within
1 Acidic Slime
3 Fresh Meat
3 Brittle Effigy
3 Autumn's Veil
2 Naturalize
2 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
My current list including NPH cards i'll be acquiring pretty easily as my friends are ordering a case :). Comments and criticism would be appreciated. This list OWNS caw-blade like nobody's business, and I think the variety of tutorable answers covers quite a few answers to various threats. Ezuri's Archers are a situational card indeed but I find there is no better elf creature for shooting down that hawk or chumping that Celestial Colonnade for one mana or two with GSZ. I will not run Ezuri as a 4 of because he's just clunky early game to me, I view him as a tutorable win con instead of a battlefield staple.
Brittle Effigy works on crusader which is a threat this deck cannot race lol. Mirran Crusader = ultra pwnage especially if he's in mono-white with things like Honor of the Pure and Armored Ascension.
Seems like an ok deck, but there are a few changes i would make, although most of them contradict what you have just said.
I do think you need more Ezuri, 3 atleast. maybe take out bellowing tanglewurm.
Put Beast Within in the main deck instead of Lead the Stampede, and Ezuri's Archers. Then put archers in the sb if you really want to keep them.
Your Sideboard seems good. I do like the new Glissa's Scorn instead of Naturalize, its the same and deals an extra damage.
Like Kolo. said...
Although i do slightly disagree about acidic slime vs corrupter, but you're running both. And i do think Beast Within trumps Lead the Stampede.
Okay... im gonna stay calm... you have a good start. but your list has an issue in that it needs direction. your list doesnt seem to have a goal. you have the cards for several different things but you have to hope you get the cards to go down any particular trail.
Good elf decks charge head first down their throats and rip the opponent apart, and if they stop us our back up is throwing vengevines at them till they die. (yes thats a very simplistic way to say it but is true.)
Your deck seems to be running at your opponent while at the same time trying to play the piano, ride a bike, and make an important business call.
Keep the deck simple. that is what gives elves its strength. and i honestly can't support any current standard elves that runs less than 4 ezuri. You need him, ive been playing elves since ezuri was spoiled. and i can safely say. I always want 4. early game is when he is the best. because HE WINS YOU THE GAME. why wouldnt you run 4?
Gfast animals slow shildrenG
51-18-4 (retired as of 6-4-11)
I tried running 4 ezuri's main after seeing the setup in so many lists in the past ten pages, but honestly I just don't see the use in him early game. If they aren't running basically the same deck (what deck gets a lot of green dudes other than elves..?), I can get the wurm out even faster and that's giving my vengevines intimidate. This combined with a few elves boosted by Archdruid is a quick game over if they can't block it. Wurm is 4/4 so it can't get bolted like ezuri does all day long. It's not doing 4 things at once it does 2, wurm OR ezuri.
I totally hear your jump down the opposition's throat strategy, but really if I gear this deck to slap that hard I find it falls apart after day of judgement. I like the beast within for lead the stampede idea though, been looking for a way to oust that card for a second. I think I'll fill the two sideboard slots with 2-3 Fresh Meat as a post-board response to DoJ. Also considering moving slime to SB.
Honestly, ezuri is a 4of because he allows the t4 kill.(which happens A LOT!) he lets your entire board live through DoJ. early game he is amazing. and you need 4 because he is so fragile. ezuri comes down and puts a huge target on his face that says "KILL ME NOW OR IM GONNA KILL YOU!" now if they kill him you have another. if they don't kill him. you win. simple as that no matter how it works you win.
now looking at your list you are gonna have issues after a DoJ because you have so many non-creature spells main that it ruins the amazing draw power that LTS gives us. LTS allows you to be wrathed. then on your very next turn have a full board without missing a beat. your opponent will be overwhelmed before they have a chance to stop you. My record is 7 complete wraths and still winning the game. my deck is about as breakneck as you can get, and i shake off wrath effects easily, so if you build it right you can too.
now Ezuri's archers.... is just bad... sure he chump block. but elves doesnt care to chump block. we want to keep a constant offensive so they are the ones forced to chump block. our defense is our offense.
the wurm is okay.. and ill admit i have played it before.. its not nearly as good as our other options.
and by not being directed. i mean your deck has...
vengevine package
nissa package
tanglewurm
Corrupter+slime
tech-edge
archers
you basically took every elf variant, including the budget one. and crammed them into one deck. You have too much defense clouding your offense, and your offense is too spread out among different strategies.
Gfast animals slow shildrenG
51-18-4 (retired as of 6-4-11)
Agree to disagree on the ezuri, I have yet to take this list to FNM so if I realize through getting spanked repeatedly there that I need to run 4 I have no problem making the change.
The archers are there as a one-of so I'm not getting pinged to death by some 2/2 flyer all game, without them there a unanswered sword hawk flies straight into my face. Probably unnecessary with beast within and brittle effigy now so I can probably move them out.
Without lead the stampede around (more situational than archers in my opinion) I can move in some Fresh Meat sideboard. So close to Caller of the Claw it kills me
I don't really think of vengevine/shaman as a package in this deck, shaman being an economic 2/2 elf makes her a good attacker and synergy with copperhorn scout makes her tutor extremely dangerous. I was trying to build this deck around no vengevine but after proxying in 4 I had to modify the deck to make him as annoying as possible. Such a great 4-drop and shooting him out of the GY is too satisfying. With the deck having 2 directions it's sometimes a little more challenging getting him out for free but I still pull it off constantly.
Putting slime in the sideboard. Corruptor and beast within maindeck should be enough permanent hate.
edit: Oh snap an extra slot opened up maindeck. I'll put in a 3rd Ezuri to make you happy btw I can't thank you all (especially kolo) enough for being so immediate with feedback, this forum is awesomely busy.
I like glissa's scorn but the reason naturalize is really there is for enchantment hate. Another area covered by beast within (whoever says it's not crazy dank has lost marbles) but I don't want to attribute too many problems solved to one card I have yet to playtest.
Waiting for all my friends to come back from easter weekend home trips so I can playtest this a little before I ramble on ITT more.
Haha, i totally agree, and i too would love to win with my Nissa's Scorn.
It's taking the important part of naturalize and adding some burn on it too, what more could you want
@ Bassist
Good to see you've configured your deck a bit.
I look forward to seeing some matchup results after your FNM, and if it goes well stick with it, its your FNM after all, not ours.
If it doesn't go well, like you say, maybe take a few more of our suggestions, maybe even copy one of our decks
beast within will probably replace naturalize/natures claim altogether. even the plummets in the side. its just so versitile.
beast within seems amazing when our turns go T1 llany. t2 beast within your land. on the play.
Gfast animals slow shildrenG
51-18-4 (retired as of 6-4-11)
1. Does it make sense to main deck Beast Within?
and
2. If yes, how will it affect the playing of Lead the Stampede?
And does it make sense to main both? (is it possible?)
it would probably have to jump in a GSZ slot. and a LTS slot. making lts a 3 of in my deck. this would let us keep the creature spells high. while still maintaining the integrity of the deck. from my list it will be
MD
-1 GSZ -1 LTS +2 beast within
SB
-2 plummet +2 beast within
of course if fresh meat is up to snuff it may replace LTS altogether allowing us to run more non-creature spells.
Gfast animals slow shildrenG
51-18-4 (retired as of 6-4-11)
- Ezuri dies to removal really easily, and other than Archdruid, is an opponent's #1 target.
- Garruk lets you untap lands for Vengevine triggers. He also provides sac-fodder for Monument.
- Garruk's overrun affects everything on the board, not just elves: so those two Vengevines you recurred from the graveyard? Yep, they're 7/6s with trample.
I'd argue that Garruk fits into the deck better than Nissa. Nissa provides life-gain but that's not nearly as important as being able to swing w/ multiple Vengevines and elves on turn 5 w/ overrun (double if you add in Ezuri).
I can't tell you how many times I've ramped into Garruk on t3 and on t4, been able to double overrun w/ Llanowar, Arbor, Vengevine for 24 damage.
And I don't see why people don't like Oran-Rief. Even as a four-of, starting your hand w/ Llanowar, Arbor, Forest, Forest, Archdruid is incredibly common. Then again, if you're not running Warcaller, there's no point in running Oran-Rief.
I don't know about Koloblicin and others, but it's getting a little old trying to explain why Ezuri is sooo good. So just read back
And CIPT lands slow the deck down, end of.
I mean look at Koloblicin's results
28 - 10 - 4
thats very good
my deck build has only been around to go to one event,
but i went 4 - 1 (losing against a more aggro UW Caw Blade)
And i beat a pro-tor top 16'er - mark glenister that made me happy
I'm going to my Tuesday Night Magic tomorrow
So i'll post my results tomorrow
(what is it with you americans, we party on a friday night haha)
p.s. sorry if that was blunt at the beginning, but like i said we've been over it so much through these pages. Lets talk about something new, like the new NPH cards.
4 arbor elf
4 Joraga Treespeaker
4 Elvish archdruid
4 ezuri, renegade leader
4 fauna shaman
4 vengevine
4 lead the stampede
18 forest
AT MOST leaving 4 slots open, and the slots i left open i personally would just fill with the corresponding card, There isnt a whole lot of room for the deck to move around or dick around, so Just role with the deck as is because it has proven itself on many different occasions, the last two tournaments i went to im now 12-0-2.
Ezuri is good, garruk and monument are bad(for this deck), get over it
Currently playing in Modern:
BBB8Rack
Currently Playing in Legacy:
Foil BELCHER
"Never interrupt your opponent while he's making a mistake"
Turn 4 one game I swung with +6/+6 to everyone. Turn five same match up swung for +9/+9. I am just having issues dealing with Blue white control if I don't beat them over the head quick enough. Once Jace, Gideon and a bunch of walls hit the ground it gets tough. I think a lot of issues will get resolved with the beast with in, so I am not too worried.
Almost lost to RDW, but third game got a leyline in my opening hand, and then drew into one on turn 3, well he couldn't keep up with the life gain and at that point with an arch druid on the board, all my elves were out of bolt range.
All in all for just getting back in the game 2 weeks ago, I am making a strong presence with Elves. Some people hate seeing me come in and to play against it.
Currently playing in Modern:
BBB8Rack
Currently Playing in Legacy:
Foil BELCHER
"Never interrupt your opponent while he's making a mistake"
Ok, i think i get it, but please tell me if i'm wrong.
You basically hang onto your treaspeaker un-leveled to make them keep hold of their kill spell? interesting.
What if they're then tapped out, do you level it then?
Surely you might aswell just play the sylvan ranger?
i do run 3x treespeaker and 3x lead the stampede, they are my differences to your initial structure.
I try not to play treespeaker T1, its the alt turn one if i HAVE to, ~that hand im not gonna mulligain just because i didnt get an arbor elf or llanowar. I dont like the Ranger because it doesnt ramp per say, yeah it *can* help out with LTS, but the % is so low.
The difference it will make in a T2 ranger is 1.9% difference in LTS...Not worth it IMO.
Currently playing in Modern:
BBB8Rack
Currently Playing in Legacy:
Foil BELCHER
"Never interrupt your opponent while he's making a mistake"
It also may not always be unchecked.
Rangers also help in playing 19 lands which does make me happy.
It is definately defenseable that treespeaker is part of the elf deck core.
Honestly the simplest core of the deck is
8 llanowar elves
4 archdruid (if you run fewer you deserve to be smacked)
4 Ezuri.
2-4 copperhorn scouts
4 fauna shaman
4 vengevine
cards that vary but are often played
Treespeaker
sylvan ranger
warcaller
(cards that just don't make the cut anymore)
Garruk
nissa
monument
viridian emissary. <<--- this card in articular IS JUST BAD. don't run it. Its the only card ive seen run that i will never warrent playing. sylvan ranger is leaps and bounds better.
SB choices
Acidic slime
viridian corrupter
naturalize
leyline of vitality. (if you didn't know... it stops pyroclasm.)
some form of creature spot removal. plummet or brittle effigy, both are defensable.
Soon i plan to have 2 beast within MD and 2 more in the side.
Gfast animals slow shildrenG
51-18-4 (retired as of 6-4-11)