Chimeric Mass has been a sleeper hit for me. Just drop this when you have 1 extra mana lying around. While you are busy proliferating cannon, chalice, and venser, you will be surprised that you suddenly have a beater.
The eldrazi's are there so that you actually have something to ramp to while you are proliferating the cannons and venser.
Win-Cons:
-Eldrazi's through proliferated chalice
-Proliferated Chimeric Mass
I hope it has got a little more focused than before. I have played some fun games with this list :D. Once you have contagion engine and another proliferate thing out, the lux cannons decide to go nuts. Not to mention venser and the chalices...
I am really liking the list with Lux cannon and all. Veneser is a great card that seems to be able to be used with almost anything, and I think this is a good option.
How has it seemed to do as far as testing against some of the bigger decks in the format?
Venser does almost literally nothing in a Machine-X deck like that. I would suggest cutting it, but then it wouldn't belong in this thread.
Has anyone tried Stoneforge Mystic in any of these Venser decks? If it was maindecked, you'd likely be changing most of your strategy, but I could see it being a possible sideboard plan, both giving SFM a double dose of usefulness and also making sure something like Sword of Body and Mind connects with the opponent. Trying out maindeck Sword of Body and Mind in a build with Sea Gate Oracle doesn't really seem too crazy in the right meta; I've even been advocating Scroll Thief over Sea Gate Oracle lately for an incredibly -- like, 80-90% incredibly -- control-heavy metagame, or for those who need a reverse-handicap in control matchups.
I would also like to point out an interaction that, as far as I can tell, has gone unnoticed by the Venser-ing community:
Unless you drafted Rise of the Eldrazi a ton, you might have to read that one. I'll wait.
. . .
With an active Venser, Domestication is effectively a four-mana Mind Control. This might not be the most relevant of shortcuts, but if you're playing a slightly more tap-out version of UW, I could easily imagine a turn three Domestication off of Everflowing Chalice being very strong. If you land a Venser next turn, you get to take any dude you want, for as long as you want.
The real question is whether the Venser community has ignored this interaction because 1) They didn't know about it or 2) It's just not good enough.
Haha, first off, the whole "Venser Community" is just this thread. I don't think it's fleshed out into that yet. Maybe at 6,000 views when I go flip out to my FNM crowd....
Anyways, Domestication is interesting, but not meta-breaking, I don't think. I think, if anything, you've made a pretty clear case for it over Mind Control in the board, which is a personal favorite of mine.
The problem with the Venser build is, you've really got to build a deck that works consistently when you can't keep Venser tabled. For this reason, I wouldn't accuse the Proliferate deck of being in the wrong thread. it's on a completely different tangent than all the other lists, sure, but the strength of Venser in this format is not to try to play him like Jace. I learned that the hard way, going 0-5 in an FNM trying to force a bant list.
Build a good, or a great control list. Look for alternatives that work for venser where possible; For instance, switch that Grasp of Darkness for a Skinrender. Switch Condemn with Tumble Magnet. Trade out Preordain for Sea Gate Oracle. Obviously, not everything translates, and sure, sometimes the sorcery just beats out the creature alter-ego. But if the shell works, you're golden.
I've been testing a new build lately! I've barely begun, though, so I'm really looking for feedback. The Emeria Angels have been all-stars in the control matchup, same with the Birds of Paradise. I'm not sure exactly where to go from here, because I don't know how to predict the Valakut Matchup, the Mono-B Matchup, the Vengevine matchup, the Elves Matchup.... If you think you can, and want to suggest changes to help suit these builds, please lend me your insight. This has tested so far above all previous lists, which bodes well.
Realms Uncharted is testing like an all-star. I can comprehensively force my opponents to give me color, landfall, and manland advantages pretty easily by choosing right with Realms Uncharted. I saw this card get played in my meta, loved the deckthinning interaction, and in testing, it's been superb. I have absolutely no qualms about it!
I chose spreading seas as a cantrip instead of the slightly more powerful Sea Gate Oracle because I felt the Valakut matchup was worth preparing for, now that I know there's a good chance it'll see play in my meta. I also decided to stop ignoring the threat of Jace, the Mind Sculptor, and fully embraced the Jace Beleren + Sun Titan engine.
Questions I might pose to you guys about this list would be:
How's the counter setup look like pre- and post-board?
How's the removal look? One more DoJ in the board? Sunblast?
How do the lands look with Emeria Angel and Realms Uncharted in mind?
And any other suggestions, go for it!
Thanks to ryansolid for helping me work out some details with this in the Next Level Bant 2.0 thread, worth exploring if you're a Venser community member (lol) or if you're looking for an alternative deck in the meta.
There is more to the Magic community than a single website ;-0
RE Your new decklist:
The maindeck splash for Green seems misguided. Cultivate is probably just better than Realms Uncharted, and Birds of Paradise is likely not the cheap accelerator that you want -- ramping from one to three isn't super important in this deck.
I've been a long-time fan of Emeria Angel, but your finisher suite of 2 Frosty, 2 Sunny, and 2 BSA seems very random.
Venser even seems a bit weak in this deck, or at least jarring. The only cards he really combos with are ones that you'd want to cast on the same turn, which is rather awkward.
Lastly, Mystifying Maze seems pretty weak.
Seeing that you have a large number of less-than-four-ofs, I'd recommend adding some card selection in the form of Preordain, Wall of Omens, or Sea Gate Oracle. Your only non-land four-ofs are Birds, Realms, and Journey.
Try some of the choices out. The threat diversity has been working great, as I generally see about 1 of each in a game.
I don't need dig like WoO and Preordain BECAUSE of Realms Uncharted. it massively thins the deck so the little cantrips I already have are more than enough to keep me in business.
On top of that, it's instant cast, so it doesn't slow me down or give a free pass to the opponent like Cultivate does. It also gets non-basics.
Mystifying Maze is pretty good because I can go get it, and it rarely gets picked by my opponent. Even after only one use, it's done it's job.
BoP is the exact manafixer here. Lotus Cobra works best with 8 fetches that I do not have, Oracle requires a higher land count if I don't have Jace the Mind Sculptor, and all the other sorceries and instants don't fix colors as quickly or as efficiently. And he never gets bolted or anything, in my experience with him in a few decks that don't beg for pyroclasm.
I have tried most of these choices out at one point or another in various decks. I even tried to make Realms Uncharted playable for a bit.
The problem is that drawing real cards immediately (now with Oracle and Preordain) is just better than drawing lands with Realms Uncharted. If you're sticking with Realms, though, isn't Explore miles better than BOP? If your opponent isn't bolting your BOP, it's either because 1) your opponent is bad, or 2) BOP isn't as good in your deck as you think.
If opponents are letting you have Maze, then that's because it doesn't hinder them. If it is actually good against them, which is unlikely, then they just won't let you have it.
I understand Lotus Cobra is not good in this deck, but you should still run the fetch lands. They work really well with Realms Uncharted in two ways: they give you more effective duals to search with it, and help to further thin your deck, which you seem to favor over actual card selection in Blue.
The next time you test the deck, could you post some actual game-by-game analysis or commentary? I think seeing what is really happening turn-by-turn will help one of us see what the other is trying to say, and I don't mean that in a facetious "I'm-right-you're-wrong" attitude.
This is the finalized deck list that I have come up with after testing with friends with their vamps, landfall, rdw, UW control, U Permission, and UB control plus two FNM's.
I still find having green in the deck is worth it. With birds for a small early ramp plus a chump flyer for worst case scenarios, garruk for untapping when needed plus overkill game winning overrun, and the slime's (which I do not find slow at all) destructability with Venser great with this deck.
The sideboard I am still working on, the condemns are in there for pesky manlands and revoke for quick WW Quest and Wurmcoils still seem to be lacking while luminarch, summoning trap, mindbreak, have been working excellent. The mana base I have not strugled with at all even when keeping a hand with only two mana in it. I had orginally had 2 suns and 2 battlespheres, though fun, were not cutting it while the titan reigned supreme with increasing mana with misty and getting back journey, wall, or seagate easily. The addition of Kozilek seems odd but I have found myself with the mana to pull it off in a majority of my matches and the worse case sceneario is me drawing four cards and my graveyard is back.
The switch of days to sideboard and journeys to main was great, since it's much cheaper and in my meta there isnt a whole lot of major creature drops. Plus with Venser, you can bounce them and safely target another creature or one with shroud. Overall I am content with this list but I am open to opinions.
I don't need dig like WoO and Preordain BECAUSE of Realms Uncharted. it massively thins the deck so the little cantrips I already have are more than enough to keep me in business.
Preordain and WoO are different that Realms Uncharted. Preordain does not thin your deck, it is there to get the cards that you need which are most likely not lands. Wall of Omens is a wall, it blocks and has a board presence, the cantrip replaces itself in your hand with possibly a non land card. If you want deck thinning, run more fetch lands.
BoP is the exact manafixer here.
BoP is a turn one creature, you have three forests and two fetches that allow you to have a turn one untapped forest to play BoP with, that is not going to be very consistent. I think that you should add in the Razorverge Thicket to help you out there.
I don't really understand why you are even running green in this build, but if you like it, I guess it is fine. It seems like green is only useful after sideboard, but even those cards are not that great. I don't really see how useful Venser is in this deck either, I think he should be a two-of at the most.
While the idea is cute to thin your deck with realms uncharted, it does seem better just to run more fetch lands, especially if you want to run the emeria angels.
I agree with foreshadowsjr in that green is only really relevant in this deck post board, and even there are probably better choices you could make.
Cutting a venser would also be beneficial because like you said you need a deck that works without a tabled venser and you have one. But this deck seems like it could honestly be stronger by just ditching venser entirely, aside from the journeys and the 1 hookmaster, you're mostly just blinking titans.
Preordain and WoO are different that Realms Uncharted. Preordain does not thin your deck, it is there to get the cards that you need which are most likely not lands. Wall of Omens is a wall, it blocks and has a board presence, the cantrip replaces itself in your hand with possibly a non land card. If you want deck thinning, run more fetch lands.
BoP is a turn one creature, you have three forests and two fetches that allow you to have a turn one untapped forest to play BoP with, that is not going to be very consistent. I think that you should add in the Razorverge Thicket to help you out there.
I don't really understand why you are even running green in this build, but if you like it, I guess it is fine. It seems like green is only useful after sideboard, but even those cards are not that great. I don't really see how useful Venser is in this deck either, I think he should be a two-of at the most.
It took me like what, two months? To figure out this was you. I'm so DUMB
It even says Seattle, WA....
Anyways, I'll switch in a Razorhedge Thicket or two. I'm racing to turn 4-5, not turn 3, so it's been kind of OK. They mostly color-fix. I'll make changes as I go along.
Realms uncharted is kind of pointless in this deck. There arent enough lands worth searching for in standard as it is. Turn 3 just play a relevant card instead of playing the 3 mana squadron hawk that is realms uncharted... Actually its slightly worse than a 3 mana squadron hawk squadron hawk can block and attack and be blinked with venser, Realms has no synergy with anything else in your deck, you have nothing to get the lands back, and you dont have any powerful lands. I would just run fetch lands and maybe if i was feeling really frisky id run a pilgrims eye or two because lol venser
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Circular Logic Example: You're splashing a color to fix your colors so you can cast a "tutor" that finds lands that you cut so you could make room for the color that you splashed so you can cast a "tutor" that finds lands that you cut so you could make room for the color that you splashed so you can cast a "tutor" that finds lands that you cut so you could make room for the color that you splashed so you.
I double-checked the rulings, but when you bounce Domestication (enchant creature), the original owner gets his creature back. Its like paying 2 mana more for Journey to Nowhere.
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Bringing Turbo-Hydra back to Standard...
:symg::symr::symb: Domri Jund
I double-checked the rulings, but when you bounce Domestication (enchant creature), the original owner gets his creature back. Its like paying 2 mana more for Journey to Nowhere.
1. I enchant Some Dude with Domestication.
2. You play a Sweet Dude.
3. I blink Domestication with Venser, when it returns, I steal your Sweet Dude.
4. I get to block with your Sweet Dude.
5. Once I untap, I get to attack with your Sweet Dude, and then blink Domestication again so that the enchantment is not sacrificed, after which I just get the Sweet Dude back. I can even take Shrouded Dudes via Venser's blink ability.
It's very different from Journey to Nowhere.
That said, I do not think it is good -- merely a thought for the MTGS community to mull over.
Realms has no synergy with anything else in your deck, you have nothing to get the lands back, and you dont have any powerful lands. I would just run fetch lands and maybe if i was feeling really frisky id run a pilgrims eye or two because lol venser
Firstly, Sun Titan gets lands back. My opponent throwing out a Tectonic Edge just means i'll get them later.
Secondly, with the exception of a few unbelievably powerful lands, I don't think standard has ever had access to BETTER lands. Not only do we have 6 manlands in the set, we have a wasteland effect, a maze, 10 ETB effect lands, and a set of fetches. THis card has never been more timely.
Now, as for the synergy part, having lands in hand is amazing synergy with Emeria Angel because it keeps my opponents from making me sac creatures AND it keeps blockers on the field so Venser can go ultimate. By vensering fetch lands, I can give Emeria Angel 3 little friends in a single turn.
Finally, I might run more fetches, but I really don't own any right now. I wouldn't run more than 3 more, though. I thought about Sylvan Ranger over BoP, but I like the speed the BoP provides and the color-fixing, which has been more than relevant with so much double green, white, and blue.
Thanks for the insight, though A lot of people aren't fans of the Realms Uncharted, but I wouldn't be advocating it so heavily if I wasn't having outstanding results.
You're using circle logic to justify using green in this deck. I need green for realms uncharted/bop to fix mana for 3 colors, but im not running anything green in the main except bop, realms uncharted, and a manland. Where if you remove green from the deck, suddenly you don't have to figure out how to have double green, blue or white all on turn 3.
My question is then why run green? Everything green does in your deck (deck thinning/digging), fetch lands (aka not green) or blue (preordaines, JtMS, foresee, etc.) does equally if not better.
Your relevant reasons for running green, gaea's revenge and obstinate baloth are sitting in your board. I would either find something that green could do in the main, other than making it easier to play green cards, or ditch green entirely.
Tec edge+sun titan is cool and everything, but saying that you can ditch your 1 tec edge with realms uncharted and thats fine because of sun titan is just begging for tarpits to bend you over a table.
Hi guys. I'd like to take an (admittedly untested) stab at Venser-dom. Right now it looks like the line between cute and effective with him is blurry. there's really nothing game-breaking to blink every turn with him except for Grave and Primeval Titans.. I think what Venser REALLY needs (and what I hope to see in MBS) is an ETB proliferator. Everyone's Venser theories have been focusing on his +ability... so here's my rough stab at a comprehensively useful Venser deck.
Well, the idea is to push Thrummingbirds through with Venser's -1 to quickly build counters on Chalice, Archmage Ascension, Cryptologist, and Chronologist. And of course Venser himself. Once it's active, tutoring for Mnemonic Wall is game over, once you have the emblem and can Silence every turn. I know it's not as focused as it could be, but I feel it has potential. I'd love to find room for Jace 1.0 (Yes, I know 2.0 would be insanely broken with an active Archmage ascension, but you know how that goes.) Comments? ideas?
You're using circle logic to justify using green in this deck. I need green for realms uncharted/bop to fix mana for 3 colors, but im not running anything green in the main except bop, realms uncharted, and a manland. Where if you remove green from the deck, suddenly you don't have to figure out how to have double green, blue or white all on turn 3.
My question is then why run green? Everything green does in your deck (deck thinning/digging), fetch lands (aka not green) or blue (preordaines, JtMS, foresee, etc.) does equally if not better.
Your relevant reasons for running green, gaea's revenge and obstinate baloth are sitting in your board. I would either find something that green could do in the main, other than making it easier to play green cards, or ditch green entirely.
Tec edge+sun titan is cool and everything, but saying that you can ditch your 1 tec edge with realms uncharted and thats fine because of sun titan is just begging for tarpits to bend you over a table.
A states-winning Eldrazi deck ran a swamp in the main and 3 Memoricide in the board. Just because Green is great only after board doesn't mean I should abandon it. Neither white, nor blue have a creature with as much deck utility as Obstinate Baloth. It's out of Pyroclasm and Bolt range, blocks half the metagame without dying, and gains me life ETB.
and Gaea's Revenge wins the game. WINS the game.
Circle logic? no- thinning my deck and ramping ahead 1 turn is 75% of the way there to justifying green in the deck, and the sideboard pushes it well over a sure thing in my book.
Also, I'll probably be working a pair of sylvan rangers into the main, so it's another green plug
I'd like to preface my response by saying that I am in agreement with Pointicus about one thing: You are using circular logic to justify a green splash, specifically Realms Uncharted.
Circular Logic Example: You're splashing a color to fix your colors so you can cast a "tutor" that finds lands that you cut so you could make room for the color that you splashed so you can cast a "tutor" that finds lands that you cut so you could make room for the color that you splashed so you can cast a "tutor" that finds lands that you cut so you could make room for the color that you splashed so you.
Etc.
I would also like to say that I do not think Realms is necessarily terrible, just that it does not fit into this particular deck, and that even more value can be extracted out of it through other card choices.
Firstly, Sun Titan gets lands back. My opponent throwing out a Tectonic Edge just means i'll get them later.
At this point, both you and your opponent are likely in Stage III of the game. (This is a safe assumption considering you have cast and resolved a Sun Titan; if this isn't so, then you are likely winning anyway, as you are certainly in Stage III, but your opponent is not yet.) If this is so, then Tectonic Edge does not matter -- or at least matters less than it would have in Stages I or II.
If you played four Tectonic Edge instead of playing Green, your Tectonic Edge would be much more reliable (as far as the Battlefield is concerned) and more effective. And you are still just as likely to soft-lock an opponent out of Stage III via Sun Titan.
Secondly, with the exception of a few unbelievably powerful lands, I don't think standard has ever had access to BETTER lands. Not only do we have 6 manlands in the set, we have a wasteland effect, a maze, 10 ETB effect lands, and a set of fetches. THis card has never been more timely.
Aside: I would give almost anything to have 10 Shock Lands/Bounce Lands back, or Charge Lands, or Urza Tron, or Academy Ruins -- we're in an artifact block! But I digress. Certainly, the power level of lands in Standard right now is through-the-roof awesome.
Before I give counterpoints to your argument, I would like to first suggest that because literally every deck is playing at least some of these "unbelievably powerful lands", Realms Uncharted is already at a significant disadvantage. Getting a few more awesome lands matters less when your opponent has the same number of awesome lands that he can use each turn. What I mean by this is that even if you have four creature-lands in play to your opponent's two, you can each likely only activate one -- not to mention, your opponent probably has more Tec Edges in his deck than you do.
What is the Realms package that gives you the best value, using all of these fancy lands? Tec Edge, Maze, Colonnade, Wildwood? You'll likely be handed Maze and Wildwood a majority of the time, as those are the worst of the group by a significant margin. Maybe you'll get handed Colonnade over Wildwood some of the time if the opponent is aggressive. With no way to abuse Realms Uncharted outside of Sun Titan, its most relevant indirect effect seems to be "Search your library for Tectonic Edge, hope your opponent is stupid, and then put it in your graveyard anyway." Now, that is a note-worthy ability, but simply playing four Tectonic Edge accomplishes the same thing, as I have stated above.
Now, as for the synergy part, having lands in hand is amazing synergy with Emeria Angel because it keeps my opponents from making me sac creatures AND it keeps blockers on the field so Venser can go ultimate. By vensering fetch lands, I can give Emeria Angel 3 little friends in a single turn.
Cultivate has more synergy with Emeria Angel than Realms Uncharted. It gives you two lands to feed Landfall, but both lands will be entering the battlefield that turn. Venser increases your Landfall count by the same amount no matter what your 2G spell is.
Finally, I might run more fetches, but I really don't own any right now. I wouldn't run more than 3 more, though. I thought about Sylvan Ranger over BoP, but I like the speed the BoP provides and the color-fixing, which has been more than relevant with so much double green, white, and blue.
If you can acquire fetch lands, I would say go for it.
Sylvan Ranger and BOP are entirely different cards, much in the sense that Cultivate and Realms are different. One is ramp, one "draws" lands. There is a significant difference in these two abilities. This is ignoring their relative mana cost -- the difference between one and two is is more than simple arithmetic would lead you to believe. This makes them difficult, if not pointless, to compare. Outside of a 1-of in a Fauna Shaman deck maybe, nobody should really be playing Sylvan Ranger, but this isn't to say that I think BOP is the optimal ramp card for your deck.
BOP provides some speed, yes, but what are you speeding into? I would argue that Explore or Cultivate do the same job, but more efficiently.
Aside: Explore would be pretty awesome in this deck. It synergizes amazingly with Realms Uncharted. Not that I really think Realms is necessary or even good, but adding Explore would help make it playable. Explore also ramps in the same manner as BOP, but provides extra Landfall to Emeria in Stage III or later in Stage II that you're trying to top-deck out of.
Color-fixing would not be necessary if you cut BOP and Realms, though it appears I will be unable to sway your opinion on this front.
Thanks for the insight, though A lot of people aren't fans of the Realms Uncharted, but I wouldn't be advocating it so heavily if I wasn't having outstanding results.
Good Results are not necessarily The Best Results.
I appreciate your attempt at innovation and desire to discover new, break-out cards, as I am constantly testing new ideas and strategies -- it's a long-forgotten practice in this hive mind world. The ability to differentiate between Actually Good and Good As In Not Terrible, Maybe Even Okay, But Mostly Just Different From The Hive seems to be the next skill you need to develop on your way to becoming a successful rogue deck-builder.
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Circular Logic Example: You're splashing a color to fix your colors so you can cast a "tutor" that finds lands that you cut so you could make room for the color that you splashed so you can cast a "tutor" that finds lands that you cut so you could make room for the color that you splashed so you can cast a "tutor" that finds lands that you cut so you could make room for the color that you splashed so you.
(Edit: I see that I've been Sarnathed by Mdilthey. I'll refrain from adding even more to this post or double-posting just to respond. Instead, I'll respond to any future response.)
A states-winning Eldrazi deck ran a swamp in the main and 3 Memoricide in the board. Just because Green is great only after board doesn't mean I should abandon it. Neither white, nor blue have a creature with as much deck utility as Obstinate Baloth. It's out of Pyroclasm and Bolt range, blocks half the metagame without dying, and gains me life ETB.
and Gaea's Revenge wins the game. WINS the game.
Circle logic? no- thinning my deck and ramping ahead 1 turn is 75% of the way there to justifying green in the deck, and the sideboard pushes it well over a sure thing in my book.
Also, I'll probably be working a pair of sylvan rangers into the main, so it's another green plug
/size]
In response to your post.
1. Comparing what you are doing and what the eldrazi green deck did is like comparing apples and oranges.
A) its 1 swamp, in a deck with primeval titan, that ramps into 10+ colorless spells. That 1 swamp doesnt actually hurt them much (if at all) when they draw it pre-board.
B) you are are running green to mana fix for running 3 colors in the main. Your green spells dont actually do much beyond making it easier to run green.
2. Post board sure, green actually can do something in your deck. I never said that it didnt. Only that its a waste to run green soley because of the board. If you want those cards in your 75, either put them in the main or find something green that actually works in the main. Because right now green hurts you more than it helps. The above poster is correct when s/he discusses realms and the problems with it.
Did you forget your lands? Wait, this is a 20 land deck?
I like the idea but find it a bit too top heavy, dropping the Eldrazi for a more manageable five drop finish in Venser? Squadron Hawk to work with the Cryptologist? Trinket Mage over Ascensions to find the singletons?
Firstly, Sun Titan gets lands back. My opponent throwing out a Tectonic Edge just means i'll get them later.
Secondly, with the exception of a few unbelievably powerful lands, I don't think standard has ever had access to BETTER lands. Not only do we have 6 manlands in the set, we have a wasteland effect, a maze, 10 ETB effect lands, and a set of fetches. THis card has never been more timely.
Now, as for the synergy part, having lands in hand is amazing synergy with Emeria Angel because it keeps my opponents from making me sac creatures AND it keeps blockers on the field so Venser can go ultimate. By vensering fetch lands, I can give Emeria Angel 3 little friends in a single turn.
Finally, I might run more fetches, but I really don't own any right now. I wouldn't run more than 3 more, though. I thought about Sylvan Ranger over BoP, but I like the speed the BoP provides and the color-fixing, which has been more than relevant with so much double green, white, and blue.
Thanks for the insight, though A lot of people aren't fans of the Realms Uncharted, but I wouldn't be advocating it so heavily if I wasn't having outstanding results.
Sun titan gets you back things 3 turns later, and thats completely contingent on you grabbing one of your 2 sun titans from your deck within that time. Emeria angel is probably just dead after you drop a land, 9/10 youre probably just getting 2 birds for that 4 mana. Realms should probably just be cultivate that way you automatically have a land to play and get one into your hand. If youre that worried about getting your "powerful lands" which arent really that powerful considering when you realms them you end up throwing away 2 of the 4 lands you fetch for anyway, then just run expedition map not that that is actually great either. Realms really just does nothing in your deck other than have your 2 best lands fetched by it thrown away. Honestly i would stick to more orthodox cards for deck filtering such as seagate oracle or pre ordain or even foresee, if for no other reasons than seagate oracle has some synergy with venser and he has a body to block with
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Circular Logic Example: You're splashing a color to fix your colors so you can cast a "tutor" that finds lands that you cut so you could make room for the color that you splashed so you can cast a "tutor" that finds lands that you cut so you could make room for the color that you splashed so you can cast a "tutor" that finds lands that you cut so you could make room for the color that you splashed so you.
Not sure if mentioned on this thread. But if you are going through all that work to get lands and you really want Green.. I mean Primeval Titan basically does it as well without the downfall of them going in the graveyard. Cultivate ramps, Explore ramps, Primeval Titan ramps. If the interaction that takes advantage is a 6 cost Titan, might as well play the other Titan that just does it naturally. I don't think it's a good fit for the deck but it is the same sort of argument. Realms is no Gifts since it can't lead to you playing exactly what you want regardless of what they choose without tons of other factors that are neither consistent or cost effective.
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Current Decks: GWUKnightfall Modern UWTempo Legacy UGRBurning Wish Cobra Vintage
That's a cool take. Venser must turn quite a clock with his -1 and Student of Warfare (and probably Sun Titan/Colonnade). Not to mention early pressure on other control decks. I see you have tailored your mana base with less tectonic edges. Early white is a lot more important for this deck. You do seem a little light on permission in your 75 to go the full distance, against Ramp or the Control mirror. Although you have enough early board presence to make Luminarch an issue for other control decks.
The 1 of Silence seems interesting to me. Is it because the deck plays tempo and this often all you need to buy the turn to win against Ramp or Control? I'm not quite sure I get the Lighthouse Chronologist. It could be cool late game I guess.. but so could just swinging over with Colonnade and winning. I almost want to see the Chronologist become more Jace, perhaps Beleren. With all the counters and levelers I was looking for a Proliferate theme but I think you have wisely not included that. Ratchet Bombs also seem a bit suspect at first but I guess DoJ hurts yourself a bit? I doubt you'd have problems with opposing Luminarch Ascensions.
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Current Decks: GWUKnightfall Modern UWTempo Legacy UGRBurning Wish Cobra Vintage
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4 Mana Leak
3 Stoic Rebuttal
3 Day of Judgment
Artifact Spells [17]
4 Contagion Clasp
4 Everflowing Chalice
4 Lux Cannon
3 Contagion Engine
2 Chimeric Mass
4 Wall of Omens
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Ulamog, The Infinite Gyre
Planeswalker [3]
3 Venser, the Sojourner
Lands [24]
4 Celestial Colonnade
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Seachrome Coast
4 Halimar Depths
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Island
2 Plains
Chimeric Mass has been a sleeper hit for me. Just drop this when you have 1 extra mana lying around. While you are busy proliferating cannon, chalice, and venser, you will be surprised that you suddenly have a beater.
The eldrazi's are there so that you actually have something to ramp to while you are proliferating the cannons and venser.
Win-Cons:
-Eldrazi's through proliferated chalice
-Proliferated Chimeric Mass
Removal:
-Venser bouncing Contagions clasp/engine
-Proliferated lux cannon's
-Proliferated Venser ultimate
I hope it has got a little more focused than before. I have played some fun games with this list :D. Once you have contagion engine and another proliferate thing out, the lux cannons decide to go nuts. Not to mention venser and the chalices...
How has it seemed to do as far as testing against some of the bigger decks in the format?
Currently Working on:
"All is fair in Love and Magic."
Personal Writings:
Scars Have Torn My Soul: A Tale of Mirrodin
Ch. 1 http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=283875
Ch. 2 http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=304673
Ch.3 http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=6409825#post6409825
Also, check out Deck Tricks in my blog!
Many thanks to FuxAlt for the awesome banner!
Has anyone tried Stoneforge Mystic in any of these Venser decks? If it was maindecked, you'd likely be changing most of your strategy, but I could see it being a possible sideboard plan, both giving SFM a double dose of usefulness and also making sure something like Sword of Body and Mind connects with the opponent. Trying out maindeck Sword of Body and Mind in a build with Sea Gate Oracle doesn't really seem too crazy in the right meta; I've even been advocating Scroll Thief over Sea Gate Oracle lately for an incredibly -- like, 80-90% incredibly -- control-heavy metagame, or for those who need a reverse-handicap in control matchups.
I would also like to point out an interaction that, as far as I can tell, has gone unnoticed by the Venser-ing community:
Unless you drafted Rise of the Eldrazi a ton, you might have to read that one. I'll wait.
. . .
With an active Venser, Domestication is effectively a four-mana Mind Control. This might not be the most relevant of shortcuts, but if you're playing a slightly more tap-out version of UW, I could easily imagine a turn three Domestication off of Everflowing Chalice being very strong. If you land a Venser next turn, you get to take any dude you want, for as long as you want.
The real question is whether the Venser community has ignored this interaction because 1) They didn't know about it or 2) It's just not good enough.
What do you think?
Edit: Oh, hey, Modern is a format.
Anyways, Domestication is interesting, but not meta-breaking, I don't think. I think, if anything, you've made a pretty clear case for it over Mind Control in the board, which is a personal favorite of mine.
The problem with the Venser build is, you've really got to build a deck that works consistently when you can't keep Venser tabled. For this reason, I wouldn't accuse the Proliferate deck of being in the wrong thread. it's on a completely different tangent than all the other lists, sure, but the strength of Venser in this format is not to try to play him like Jace. I learned that the hard way, going 0-5 in an FNM trying to force a bant list.
Build a good, or a great control list. Look for alternatives that work for venser where possible; For instance, switch that Grasp of Darkness for a Skinrender. Switch Condemn with Tumble Magnet. Trade out Preordain for Sea Gate Oracle. Obviously, not everything translates, and sure, sometimes the sorcery just beats out the creature alter-ego. But if the shell works, you're golden.
I've been testing a new build lately! I've barely begun, though, so I'm really looking for feedback. The Emeria Angels have been all-stars in the control matchup, same with the Birds of Paradise. I'm not sure exactly where to go from here, because I don't know how to predict the Valakut Matchup, the Mono-B Matchup, the Vengevine matchup, the Elves Matchup.... If you think you can, and want to suggest changes to help suit these builds, please lend me your insight. This has tested so far above all previous lists, which bodes well.
2x Frost Titan
2x Sun Titan
2x Baneslayer Angel
3x Emeria Angel
4x Birds of Paradise
1x Sylvan Ranger
Spells/Enchantments:
4x Journey to Nowhere
2x Day of Judgment
2x Spreading Seas
3x Mana Leak
4x Realms Uncharted
Planeswalkers:
3x Venser, The Sojourner
3x Jace Beleren
4x Celestial Colonnade
3x Stirring Wildwood
3x Glacial Fortress
2x Sunpetal Grove
2x Misty Rainforest
2x Evolving Wilds
1x Tectonic Edge
1x Mistifying Maze
2x Island
2x Plains
3x Forest
2x Spreading Seas
1x Mana Leak
3x Spell Pierce
2x Gaea's Revenge
4x Obstinate Baloth
2x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Linvala, Keeper of Silence
Realms Uncharted is testing like an all-star. I can comprehensively force my opponents to give me color, landfall, and manland advantages pretty easily by choosing right with Realms Uncharted. I saw this card get played in my meta, loved the deckthinning interaction, and in testing, it's been superb. I have absolutely no qualms about it!
I chose spreading seas as a cantrip instead of the slightly more powerful Sea Gate Oracle because I felt the Valakut matchup was worth preparing for, now that I know there's a good chance it'll see play in my meta. I also decided to stop ignoring the threat of Jace, the Mind Sculptor, and fully embraced the Jace Beleren + Sun Titan engine.
Questions I might pose to you guys about this list would be:
How's the counter setup look like pre- and post-board?
How's the removal look? One more DoJ in the board? Sunblast?
How do the lands look with Emeria Angel and Realms Uncharted in mind?
And any other suggestions, go for it!
Thanks to ryansolid for helping me work out some details with this in the Next Level Bant 2.0 thread, worth exploring if you're a Venser community member (lol) or if you're looking for an alternative deck in the meta.
Thanks for reading
RE Your new decklist:
The maindeck splash for Green seems misguided. Cultivate is probably just better than Realms Uncharted, and Birds of Paradise is likely not the cheap accelerator that you want -- ramping from one to three isn't super important in this deck.
I've been a long-time fan of Emeria Angel, but your finisher suite of 2 Frosty, 2 Sunny, and 2 BSA seems very random.
Venser even seems a bit weak in this deck, or at least jarring. The only cards he really combos with are ones that you'd want to cast on the same turn, which is rather awkward.
Lastly, Mystifying Maze seems pretty weak.
Seeing that you have a large number of less-than-four-ofs, I'd recommend adding some card selection in the form of Preordain, Wall of Omens, or Sea Gate Oracle. Your only non-land four-ofs are Birds, Realms, and Journey.
Edit: Oh, hey, Modern is a format.
I don't need dig like WoO and Preordain BECAUSE of Realms Uncharted. it massively thins the deck so the little cantrips I already have are more than enough to keep me in business.
On top of that, it's instant cast, so it doesn't slow me down or give a free pass to the opponent like Cultivate does. It also gets non-basics.
Mystifying Maze is pretty good because I can go get it, and it rarely gets picked by my opponent. Even after only one use, it's done it's job.
BoP is the exact manafixer here. Lotus Cobra works best with 8 fetches that I do not have, Oracle requires a higher land count if I don't have Jace the Mind Sculptor, and all the other sorceries and instants don't fix colors as quickly or as efficiently. And he never gets bolted or anything, in my experience with him in a few decks that don't beg for pyroclasm.
The problem is that drawing real cards immediately (now with Oracle and Preordain) is just better than drawing lands with Realms Uncharted. If you're sticking with Realms, though, isn't Explore miles better than BOP? If your opponent isn't bolting your BOP, it's either because 1) your opponent is bad, or 2) BOP isn't as good in your deck as you think.
If opponents are letting you have Maze, then that's because it doesn't hinder them. If it is actually good against them, which is unlikely, then they just won't let you have it.
I understand Lotus Cobra is not good in this deck, but you should still run the fetch lands. They work really well with Realms Uncharted in two ways: they give you more effective duals to search with it, and help to further thin your deck, which you seem to favor over actual card selection in Blue.
The next time you test the deck, could you post some actual game-by-game analysis or commentary? I think seeing what is really happening turn-by-turn will help one of us see what the other is trying to say, and I don't mean that in a facetious "I'm-right-you're-wrong" attitude.
Edit: Oh, hey, Modern is a format.
3x Venser, the Sojourner
2x Gideon Jura
2x Garruk Wildspeaker
Spells:
4x Journey to Nowhere
4x Mana Leak
2x Stoic Rebuttal
2x Cancel
Creatures:
3x Birds of Paridise
2x Wall of Omens
4x Sea Gate Oracle
3x Acidic Slime
3x Sun Titan
1x Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
2x Misty Rainforest
3x Celestial Colonnade
2x Stirring Wildwood
2x Glacial Fortress
2x Sunpetal Grove
5x Plains
5x Island
4x Forest
2x Condemn
2x Revoke Existence
3x Celestial Purge
2x Day of Judgment
2x Luminarch Ascension
2x Summoning Trap
2x Mindbreak Trap
This is the finalized deck list that I have come up with after testing with friends with their vamps, landfall, rdw, UW control, U Permission, and UB control plus two FNM's.
I still find having green in the deck is worth it. With birds for a small early ramp plus a chump flyer for worst case scenarios, garruk for untapping when needed plus overkill game winning overrun, and the slime's (which I do not find slow at all) destructability with Venser great with this deck.
The sideboard I am still working on, the condemns are in there for pesky manlands and revoke for quick WW Quest and Wurmcoils still seem to be lacking while luminarch, summoning trap, mindbreak, have been working excellent. The mana base I have not strugled with at all even when keeping a hand with only two mana in it. I had orginally had 2 suns and 2 battlespheres, though fun, were not cutting it while the titan reigned supreme with increasing mana with misty and getting back journey, wall, or seagate easily. The addition of Kozilek seems odd but I have found myself with the mana to pull it off in a majority of my matches and the worse case sceneario is me drawing four cards and my graveyard is back.
The switch of days to sideboard and journeys to main was great, since it's much cheaper and in my meta there isnt a whole lot of major creature drops. Plus with Venser, you can bounce them and safely target another creature or one with shroud. Overall I am content with this list but I am open to opinions.
Credit to DNC of Heroes of the Plane Studios
Preordain and WoO are different that Realms Uncharted. Preordain does not thin your deck, it is there to get the cards that you need which are most likely not lands. Wall of Omens is a wall, it blocks and has a board presence, the cantrip replaces itself in your hand with possibly a non land card. If you want deck thinning, run more fetch lands.
BoP is a turn one creature, you have three forests and two fetches that allow you to have a turn one untapped forest to play BoP with, that is not going to be very consistent. I think that you should add in the Razorverge Thicket to help you out there.
I don't really understand why you are even running green in this build, but if you like it, I guess it is fine. It seems like green is only useful after sideboard, but even those cards are not that great. I don't really see how useful Venser is in this deck either, I think he should be a two-of at the most.
I agree with foreshadowsjr in that green is only really relevant in this deck post board, and even there are probably better choices you could make.
Cutting a venser would also be beneficial because like you said you need a deck that works without a tabled venser and you have one. But this deck seems like it could honestly be stronger by just ditching venser entirely, aside from the journeys and the 1 hookmaster, you're mostly just blinking titans.
It took me like what, two months? To figure out this was you. I'm so DUMB
It even says Seattle, WA....
Anyways, I'll switch in a Razorhedge Thicket or two. I'm racing to turn 4-5, not turn 3, so it's been kind of OK. They mostly color-fix. I'll make changes as I go along.
I'm still a huge fan of Realms, sorry andy.
:symg::symr::symb: Domri Jund
1. I enchant Some Dude with Domestication.
2. You play a Sweet Dude.
3. I blink Domestication with Venser, when it returns, I steal your Sweet Dude.
4. I get to block with your Sweet Dude.
5. Once I untap, I get to attack with your Sweet Dude, and then blink Domestication again so that the enchantment is not sacrificed, after which I just get the Sweet Dude back. I can even take Shrouded Dudes via Venser's blink ability.
It's very different from Journey to Nowhere.
That said, I do not think it is good -- merely a thought for the MTGS community to mull over.
Edit: Oh, hey, Modern is a format.
Firstly, Sun Titan gets lands back. My opponent throwing out a Tectonic Edge just means i'll get them later.
Secondly, with the exception of a few unbelievably powerful lands, I don't think standard has ever had access to BETTER lands. Not only do we have 6 manlands in the set, we have a wasteland effect, a maze, 10 ETB effect lands, and a set of fetches. THis card has never been more timely.
Now, as for the synergy part, having lands in hand is amazing synergy with Emeria Angel because it keeps my opponents from making me sac creatures AND it keeps blockers on the field so Venser can go ultimate. By vensering fetch lands, I can give Emeria Angel 3 little friends in a single turn.
Finally, I might run more fetches, but I really don't own any right now. I wouldn't run more than 3 more, though. I thought about Sylvan Ranger over BoP, but I like the speed the BoP provides and the color-fixing, which has been more than relevant with so much double green, white, and blue.
Thanks for the insight, though A lot of people aren't fans of the Realms Uncharted, but I wouldn't be advocating it so heavily if I wasn't having outstanding results.
My question is then why run green? Everything green does in your deck (deck thinning/digging), fetch lands (aka not green) or blue (preordaines, JtMS, foresee, etc.) does equally if not better.
Your relevant reasons for running green, gaea's revenge and obstinate baloth are sitting in your board. I would either find something that green could do in the main, other than making it easier to play green cards, or ditch green entirely.
Tec edge+sun titan is cool and everything, but saying that you can ditch your 1 tec edge with realms uncharted and thats fine because of sun titan is just begging for tarpits to bend you over a table.
4 Thrummingbird
4 Enclave Cryptologist
2 Lighthouse Chronologist
1 Mnemonic Wall
2 Sun Titan
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
4 Silence
4 Into the Roil
Enchantments
3 Archmage Ascension
Artifacts
4 Everflowing Chalice
2 Contagion Clasp
2 Throne of Geth
2 Lux Cannon
1 Elixir of Immortality
3 Venser, the Sojourner
Well, the idea is to push Thrummingbirds through with Venser's -1 to quickly build counters on Chalice, Archmage Ascension, Cryptologist, and Chronologist. And of course Venser himself. Once it's active, tutoring for Mnemonic Wall is game over, once you have the emblem and can Silence every turn. I know it's not as focused as it could be, but I feel it has potential. I'd love to find room for Jace 1.0 (Yes, I know 2.0 would be insanely broken with an active Archmage ascension, but you know how that goes.) Comments? ideas?
A states-winning Eldrazi deck ran a swamp in the main and 3 Memoricide in the board. Just because Green is great only after board doesn't mean I should abandon it. Neither white, nor blue have a creature with as much deck utility as Obstinate Baloth. It's out of Pyroclasm and Bolt range, blocks half the metagame without dying, and gains me life ETB.
and Gaea's Revenge wins the game. WINS the game.
Circle logic? no- thinning my deck and ramping ahead 1 turn is 75% of the way there to justifying green in the deck, and the sideboard pushes it well over a sure thing in my book.
Also, I'll probably be working a pair of sylvan rangers into the main, so it's another green plug
2x Frost Titan
2x Sun Titan
2x Baneslayer Angel
3x Emeria Angel
4x Birds of Paradise
1x Sylvan Ranger
Spells/Enchantments:
4x Journey to Nowhere
2x Day of Judgment
2x Spreading Seas
3x Mana Leak
4x Realms Uncharted
Planeswalkers:
3x Venser, The Sojourner
3x Jace Beleren
4x Celestial Colonnade
3x Stirring Wildwood
3x Glacial Fortress
2x Sunpetal Grove
2x Misty Rainforest
2x Evolving Wilds
1x Tectonic Edge
1x Mistifying Maze
2x Island
2x Plains
3x Forest
2x Spreading Seas
1x Mana Leak
3x Spell Pierce
2x Gaea's Revenge
4x Obstinate Baloth
2x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Linvala, Keeper of Silence
/size]
Circular Logic Example: You're splashing a color to fix your colors so you can cast a "tutor" that finds lands that you cut so you could make room for the color that you splashed so you can cast a "tutor" that finds lands that you cut so you could make room for the color that you splashed so you can cast a "tutor" that finds lands that you cut so you could make room for the color that you splashed so you.
Etc.
I would also like to say that I do not think Realms is necessarily terrible, just that it does not fit into this particular deck, and that even more value can be extracted out of it through other card choices.
At this point, both you and your opponent are likely in Stage III of the game. (This is a safe assumption considering you have cast and resolved a Sun Titan; if this isn't so, then you are likely winning anyway, as you are certainly in Stage III, but your opponent is not yet.) If this is so, then Tectonic Edge does not matter -- or at least matters less than it would have in Stages I or II.
If you played four Tectonic Edge instead of playing Green, your Tectonic Edge would be much more reliable (as far as the Battlefield is concerned) and more effective. And you are still just as likely to soft-lock an opponent out of Stage III via Sun Titan.
Aside: I would give almost anything to have 10 Shock Lands/Bounce Lands back, or Charge Lands, or Urza Tron, or Academy Ruins -- we're in an artifact block! But I digress. Certainly, the power level of lands in Standard right now is through-the-roof awesome.
Before I give counterpoints to your argument, I would like to first suggest that because literally every deck is playing at least some of these "unbelievably powerful lands", Realms Uncharted is already at a significant disadvantage. Getting a few more awesome lands matters less when your opponent has the same number of awesome lands that he can use each turn. What I mean by this is that even if you have four creature-lands in play to your opponent's two, you can each likely only activate one -- not to mention, your opponent probably has more Tec Edges in his deck than you do.
What is the Realms package that gives you the best value, using all of these fancy lands? Tec Edge, Maze, Colonnade, Wildwood? You'll likely be handed Maze and Wildwood a majority of the time, as those are the worst of the group by a significant margin. Maybe you'll get handed Colonnade over Wildwood some of the time if the opponent is aggressive. With no way to abuse Realms Uncharted outside of Sun Titan, its most relevant indirect effect seems to be "Search your library for Tectonic Edge, hope your opponent is stupid, and then put it in your graveyard anyway." Now, that is a note-worthy ability, but simply playing four Tectonic Edge accomplishes the same thing, as I have stated above.
Cultivate has more synergy with Emeria Angel than Realms Uncharted. It gives you two lands to feed Landfall, but both lands will be entering the battlefield that turn. Venser increases your Landfall count by the same amount no matter what your 2G spell is.
If you can acquire fetch lands, I would say go for it.
Sylvan Ranger and BOP are entirely different cards, much in the sense that Cultivate and Realms are different. One is ramp, one "draws" lands. There is a significant difference in these two abilities. This is ignoring their relative mana cost -- the difference between one and two is is more than simple arithmetic would lead you to believe. This makes them difficult, if not pointless, to compare. Outside of a 1-of in a Fauna Shaman deck maybe, nobody should really be playing Sylvan Ranger, but this isn't to say that I think BOP is the optimal ramp card for your deck.
BOP provides some speed, yes, but what are you speeding into? I would argue that Explore or Cultivate do the same job, but more efficiently.
Aside: Explore would be pretty awesome in this deck. It synergizes amazingly with Realms Uncharted. Not that I really think Realms is necessary or even good, but adding Explore would help make it playable. Explore also ramps in the same manner as BOP, but provides extra Landfall to Emeria in Stage III or later in Stage II that you're trying to top-deck out of.
Color-fixing would not be necessary if you cut BOP and Realms, though it appears I will be unable to sway your opinion on this front.
Good Results are not necessarily The Best Results.
I appreciate your attempt at innovation and desire to discover new, break-out cards, as I am constantly testing new ideas and strategies -- it's a long-forgotten practice in this hive mind world. The ability to differentiate between Actually Good and Good As In Not Terrible, Maybe Even Okay, But Mostly Just Different From The Hive seems to be the next skill you need to develop on your way to becoming a successful rogue deck-builder.
---
(Edit: I see that I've been Sarnathed by Mdilthey. I'll refrain from adding even more to this post or double-posting just to respond. Instead, I'll respond to any future response.)
Edit: Oh, hey, Modern is a format.
In response to your post.
1. Comparing what you are doing and what the eldrazi green deck did is like comparing apples and oranges.
A) its 1 swamp, in a deck with primeval titan, that ramps into 10+ colorless spells. That 1 swamp doesnt actually hurt them much (if at all) when they draw it pre-board.
B) you are are running green to mana fix for running 3 colors in the main. Your green spells dont actually do much beyond making it easier to run green.
2. Post board sure, green actually can do something in your deck. I never said that it didnt. Only that its a waste to run green soley because of the board. If you want those cards in your 75, either put them in the main or find something green that actually works in the main. Because right now green hurts you more than it helps. The above poster is correct when s/he discusses realms and the problems with it.
3. Sylvan ranger- you cant be serious.
Did you forget your lands? Wait, this is a 20 land deck?
I like the idea but find it a bit too top heavy, dropping the Eldrazi for a more manageable five drop finish in Venser? Squadron Hawk to work with the Cryptologist? Trinket Mage over Ascensions to find the singletons?
-3 Archmage Ascension
-2 Eldrazi
-2 Throne of Geth
-2 Lighthouse Chronologist
-2 Thrumming Bird
-1 Everlasting Chalice
+4 Land
+4 Squadron Hawk
+1 Voltaic Key
+3 Trinket Mage
EDIT: Since we're basically using aggro at this point: Ajani Goldmane over Lux Cannon?
:symg::symr::symb: Domri Jund
Sun titan gets you back things 3 turns later, and thats completely contingent on you grabbing one of your 2 sun titans from your deck within that time. Emeria angel is probably just dead after you drop a land, 9/10 youre probably just getting 2 birds for that 4 mana. Realms should probably just be cultivate that way you automatically have a land to play and get one into your hand. If youre that worried about getting your "powerful lands" which arent really that powerful considering when you realms them you end up throwing away 2 of the 4 lands you fetch for anyway, then just run expedition map not that that is actually great either. Realms really just does nothing in your deck other than have your 2 best lands fetched by it thrown away. Honestly i would stick to more orthodox cards for deck filtering such as seagate oracle or pre ordain or even foresee, if for no other reasons than seagate oracle has some synergy with venser and he has a body to block with
GWU Knightfall Modern
UW Tempo Legacy
UGR Burning Wish Cobra Vintage
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=748966
MTG Complete Index: Magiccards.info.html
Solitaire & Build: Deckstats.net
That's a cool take. Venser must turn quite a clock with his -1 and Student of Warfare (and probably Sun Titan/Colonnade). Not to mention early pressure on other control decks. I see you have tailored your mana base with less tectonic edges. Early white is a lot more important for this deck. You do seem a little light on permission in your 75 to go the full distance, against Ramp or the Control mirror. Although you have enough early board presence to make Luminarch an issue for other control decks.
The 1 of Silence seems interesting to me. Is it because the deck plays tempo and this often all you need to buy the turn to win against Ramp or Control? I'm not quite sure I get the Lighthouse Chronologist. It could be cool late game I guess.. but so could just swinging over with Colonnade and winning. I almost want to see the Chronologist become more Jace, perhaps Beleren. With all the counters and levelers I was looking for a Proliferate theme but I think you have wisely not included that. Ratchet Bombs also seem a bit suspect at first but I guess DoJ hurts yourself a bit? I doubt you'd have problems with opposing Luminarch Ascensions.
GWU Knightfall Modern
UW Tempo Legacy
UGR Burning Wish Cobra Vintage