With new cards like lashwrithe, phyrexian obliterator, and despise I'm working on building a mono-black deck (currently just online, will build the real thing once available). What do you think is the best answer to sword of feast and famine in mono-black? I don't want to enter a second color because lash and obliterator need alot of black mana.
usually I just wait until they stoneforge it up then use duress/IoK to snatch it up. Just don't use your discard on turn 1. Post NPH most caw players run 1/1 split of SoFF and SWaP, so there's very little chance that they'll start with it in their opening hand.
if it hits the field your best bet is oblitorator and killing in response to equip. just pray they don't have a counter in hand.
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Black has a very hard time dealing with this once it hits the field. The only other answer I can recommend is Ratchet Bomb.
This. IoK and Duress are your best weapons. I'd save Extraction for the sideboard though; it's not applicable enough to keep in main deck based on the feedback I've read.
Surgical Extraction is absolutely terrible for dealing with a card like this. Most decks only have 1 Sword in them anyway and they find it with a tutor. Iok/Duress does the job all by itself. Don't screw around with bad stuff like Surgical Extraction. Its not a general purpose answer. Its just terrible at that.
In mono-black (if you must play that) you'll have to rely on artifacts to deal with problems that your color can't. Tumble Magnet (to buy tempo) and Ratchet Bomb (to destroy the sword once and for all) are your only realistic options.
Thanks for the responses everyone. I've found tumble magnet to work great for slowing the opponent down to my speed and I currently have ratchet bomb in my Side board now. I'm really loving black in the new set.
Black Sun's Zenith, Consuming Vapors, Geth's Verdict, Gatekeeper....and they all can be maindecked.
Cheers
I fail to see how that deals with SoFaF. There is almost no way you are going to out-kill squadron hawk, assuming you face caw-blade (which is a reasonable assumption).
The truth is, mono-black has no answer to the sword or any artifact for that matter. Which is why I don't see Mono-black working unless either black gets artifact removal, or they splash (even if it's a teeny tiny splash).
The only options staying mono-black is pretty much tumble magnet and ratchet bomb.
usually I just wait until they stoneforge it up then use duress/IoK to snatch it up. Just don't use your discard on turn 1. Post NPH most caw players run 1/1 split of SoFF and SWaP, so there's very little chance that they'll start with it in their opening hand.
if it hits the field your best bet is oblitorator and killing in response to equip. just pray they don't have a counter in hand.
But they will probably start with their search. Which, in every way, is a better Discard + Extraction target.
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But they will probably start with their search. Which, in every way, is a better Discard + Extraction target.
stoneforge mystic is worthless without the equipment it uses.
I also don't really like using extraction. My method pretty much only factors in using a discard spell. Let them search for their sword. Then take it from them.
by all means. If you have a discard + extraction in your opening hand, go for it. but just remember that you're about to 2 for 1 yourself, and black already has a hard time gaining card advantage.
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I fail to see how that deals with SoFaF. There is almost no way you are going to out-kill squadron hawk, assuming you face caw-blade (which is a reasonable assumption).
The truth is, mono-black has no answer to the sword or any artifact for that matter. Which is why I don't see Mono-black working unless either black gets artifact removal, or they splash (even if it's a teeny tiny splash).
The only options staying mono-black is pretty much tumble magnet and ratchet bomb.
Black's options specifically against Sword of Feast and Famine are Inquisition of Kozilek, Duress, Tumble Magnet, Ratchet Bomb and Phyrexian Revoker. The first 2 are only good in the first few turns of the game. The mileage on the others varies.
There's a reason why Mono Black isn't even a tier right now.
Sword of Feast and Famine is the reason why. Just accept it.
Mono Black hasn't been a tier in Standard since long before Sword of Feast and Famine was printed.
WoTC just does a good job of keeping mono-color power levels down; UB saw some time in the spotlight, B/x combinations see play on the fringe, but single colors just aren't what they used to be (exception being R to some degree)
That's a terrible answer. I play Squadron Hawk, you come back with a turn 3 BSZ. The next turn I play another Hawk and you play Consuming Vapors. Then I play Jace, to avoid the second consuming vapors. Then you play a creature, I play a Hawk, you kick a Gatkeeper and attack Jace. I have 7 cards in hand while you have 2. I've already won.
That's a terrible answer. I play Squadron Hawk, you come back with a turn 3 BSZ. The next turn I play another Hawk and you play Consuming Vapors. Then I play Jace, to avoid the second consuming vapors. Then you play a creature, I play a Hawk, you kick a Gatkeeper and attack Jace. I have 7 cards in hand while you have 2. I've already won.
Absolutely correct. Once you're put in the position of fighting CawBlade by removing things you're most likely already toast because the things they landed early all brought real benefits along with them.
The answer to CawBlade is either to match them move for move with similarly significant plays or to counter or discard the creatures before they can provide advantage.
The reason this meta is so screwed up right now is that the best lists all play creatures that kill you when they land, even if that loss is a turn or a few away.
That's essentially the list to stand a chance, now you just straight up die to everything else, you don't have room to run the previously mentioned cards.
Actually what i've found is that phyrexian obliterator is a good answer to this. he should be hitting the board becuase you've been despising, iok, duressing him so far for his answers. Most caw blades don't run much in the way of spot removal. The most common removal is jace(should hit him with despise, or the stonforge so he doesn't get the sword), or day of judgement(if he uses this he hits his own creatures and gives you some time). if obliterator lives he either has to block with one of his other birds, which he still gets hit for 4 and sac another perm, or with the bird holding the sword. Which he has to sac 4 permemaeants to the ability( or if he has a stone forger block, 5). which puts you in a good board position.
If you have a inquisition of kozilek or a duress in hand in the beginning, save it for them to play stoneforge mystic then get the sword out of their hand when they are tapped out.
I know people still think that torpor orb is bad because it can whiff on the fetch. But if you can keep the birds from getting out of hand your consuming vapor is able to hit them a lot easier.
While the caw-blade can go with a 60%win chance(what i've heard is the win chance post rotation) it doesn't mean that you will always be steam rolled. Just remember its control match up and you have to outplay your opponent.
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This is potentially a turn 1 deal.
Black has a very hard time dealing with this once it hits the field. The only other answer I can recommend is Ratchet Bomb.
if it hits the field your best bet is oblitorator and killing in response to equip. just pray they don't have a counter in hand.
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This. IoK and Duress are your best weapons. I'd save Extraction for the sideboard though; it's not applicable enough to keep in main deck based on the feedback I've read.
The other options black has are in artifact form (aside from the Bomb):
Phyrexian Revoker
Spine of Ish Sah
Lux Cannon
Tumble Magnet
Brittle Effigy
Molten-Tail Masticore
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In mono-black (if you must play that) you'll have to rely on artifacts to deal with problems that your color can't. Tumble Magnet (to buy tempo) and Ratchet Bomb (to destroy the sword once and for all) are your only realistic options.
Cheers
I fail to see how that deals with SoFaF. There is almost no way you are going to out-kill squadron hawk, assuming you face caw-blade (which is a reasonable assumption).
The truth is, mono-black has no answer to the sword or any artifact for that matter. Which is why I don't see Mono-black working unless either black gets artifact removal, or they splash (even if it's a teeny tiny splash).
The only options staying mono-black is pretty much tumble magnet and ratchet bomb.
That was already tried back in Ye olde days with even better cards (Thoughtseize and Extirpate.) Yet extirpate remain in sideboard.
Not saying it may not work now, but, it is to see yet.
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But they will probably start with their search. Which, in every way, is a better Discard + Extraction target.
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
Sword of Feast and Famine is the reason why. Just accept it.
Akuma will wreck you.
stoneforge mystic is worthless without the equipment it uses.
I also don't really like using extraction. My method pretty much only factors in using a discard spell. Let them search for their sword. Then take it from them.
by all means. If you have a discard + extraction in your opening hand, go for it. but just remember that you're about to 2 for 1 yourself, and black already has a hard time gaining card advantage.
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Black's options specifically against Sword of Feast and Famine are Inquisition of Kozilek, Duress, Tumble Magnet, Ratchet Bomb and Phyrexian Revoker. The first 2 are only good in the first few turns of the game. The mileage on the others varies.
Mono Black hasn't been a tier in Standard since long before Sword of Feast and Famine was printed.
WoTC just does a good job of keeping mono-color power levels down; UB saw some time in the spotlight, B/x combinations see play on the fringe, but single colors just aren't what they used to be (exception being R to some degree)
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That's a terrible answer. I play Squadron Hawk, you come back with a turn 3 BSZ. The next turn I play another Hawk and you play Consuming Vapors. Then I play Jace, to avoid the second consuming vapors. Then you play a creature, I play a Hawk, you kick a Gatkeeper and attack Jace. I have 7 cards in hand while you have 2. I've already won.
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Absolutely correct. Once you're put in the position of fighting CawBlade by removing things you're most likely already toast because the things they landed early all brought real benefits along with them.
The answer to CawBlade is either to match them move for move with similarly significant plays or to counter or discard the creatures before they can provide advantage.
The reason this meta is so screwed up right now is that the best lists all play creatures that kill you when they land, even if that loss is a turn or a few away.
For MBC to stand a chance against Caw blade you need:
4 duress
4 Iok
4 Sadistic Sacrament
4 Memoricide
4 tumble magnet
4 Vampire hexmage
4 Contagin clasp
4 Phyrexian crusader
4 Skythrix some dragon
That's essentially the list to stand a chance, now you just straight up die to everything else, you don't have room to run the previously mentioned cards.
If you have a inquisition of kozilek or a duress in hand in the beginning, save it for them to play stoneforge mystic then get the sword out of their hand when they are tapped out.
Another way is to hit the board with massacre wurm. Then follow up with a consuming vapor or gatekeeper of malakir.
I know people still think that torpor orb is bad because it can whiff on the fetch. But if you can keep the birds from getting out of hand your consuming vapor is able to hit them a lot easier.
While the caw-blade can go with a 60%win chance(what i've heard is the win chance post rotation) it doesn't mean that you will always be steam rolled. Just remember its control match up and you have to outplay your opponent.
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