The original thread got moved to the Standard Archives, so there was nowhere to really ask the couple questions I had about this deck. I've been trying to make this deck for a while, and then I saw it on here and my version got so much better....
I know this is probably too many, but I can't figure out what I would remove....each of them is something I'm happy to draw....Steel Hellkite puts in some serious work in this deck, since it's searchable with Ancient Stirrings, Exilable with Hoarding Dragon, and is a pretty solid creature on its own to boot.
The questions that I had basically revolved around what the final product should look like. The manbase is fine, I have so many R/G dual lands that it just works. What I want to know is:
A) More Crystal Ball's? It seems like the scry is really helpful.
B) What about Sylvok Replica? It's searchable with Ancient Stirrings, and it also hates enchantments. My problem is finding something that I could take out in order to put this in.
Can anyone help me out here? Critiques, tips, anything?
I've honestly got no game plan once on of those hits, other than the fact that I'll probably already have a coating. I know how weak that sounds, believe me....that's another reason that I posted this deck. It has all the beatsticks almost as a backup wincon....but yeah, without the coating, the deck works at like 10% capacity. Ideally, I would have dropped coating turn 2, then turn 3/4 drop creatures that destroy artifacts with CITP abilities, so they wouldn't have the mana to play memoricide, but....yeah, it's something of a problem.
unfortunately, this is well said. the deck is inconsistent and scoops to alot. have you considered a blue based deck for liquidmetal? seems like a reasonable idea if you want card draw, not to mention counterspells to further strengthen your denial strategy. but then, one would start asking themselves if liquid metal coating is necessary at all
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Hm, Pyromancer's Ascension does the same thing just about..Call out Grave Titan vs U/B these days and it's looking hectic...Just get out the liquid before they can take it from you.
Overall I like the list, what I've been working on lately is a Naya version, I'll post below in case you get any inspiration. I would say you don't need Gaea's Revenge, at least not maindeck. I like the hoarding dragon idea you may want to go to two.
That's what I'm working with atm. Obviously it includes Besieged cards which I understand we're allowed to post now. So far I haven't tested since the white splash which I only did yesterday. Does anyone have any advice on this mana base? I feel like it could be better.
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Overall I like the list, what I've been working on lately is a Naya version, I'll post below in case you get any inspiration. I would say you don't need Gaea's Revenge, at least not maindeck. I like the hoarding dragon idea you may want to go to two.
That's what I'm working with atm. Obviously it includes Besieged cards which I understand we're allowed to post now. So far I haven't tested since the white splash which I only did yesterday. Does anyone have any advice on this mana base? I feel like it could be better.
There is no reason not to be playing naturalize with G
This setup is focused on the creatures instead of the non-body spells. This way if you don't get out your Coating, you still have bodies to throw out. Mim vat really shines in this deck. Get a slime on it and that's all she wrote!
Kor Sanctifiers are ok, but once the Viridian Corrupter takes their spot this deck will just get even better. I'll likely run it as a 4 of and cut a Wall or land.
White allows for recurrence thanks to the Sun Titan, Leyline of Sanctity to deal with Red, Black, and being Fatesealed by Jace. White also gets you Day of Judgement. Nothing says HAHA! Like a Reset Button.
Kozilek is simply there to deal with Mill Decks. NOBODY likes to get milled...
Revoke Existance is to help deal with those pesky Indestructibles.
It's fairly consistant and is guaranteed to piss off a few people.
Kor Firewalkers are most likely the only true defense you have against Red decks. Red decks are probably the hardest matchup, but if you're lucky enough to snag a couple of Kor Firewalkers early enough then you should be ok.
Autumn's Veil really helps a lot vs Black and Blue, very underated card for green me thinks.
Your deck is interesting, but why would you replace your sanctifiers with viridian corrupter? It would be your only poison creature and therefore have an effective power of 0 in this deck.
Ok I went through a lot of renditions of Liquimetal Coating for the first few months of Scars of Mirrodin. The deck is a lot of fun and for those who say what about memerocide and sadistic sacriment, that argument works for any combo deck out there. If your opponent doesnt hand hate u turn 1 then the deck usually worked ok with sadistic and memerocide not mattering all that much because if you didnt hit a liquimetal coating in the first 3-4 turns anyways u were going to loose to any decent deck.
One of the big things I will leave you with is that liquimetal coating works best as somewhat of an agro / control deck. Dont run the really big splashy stuff as its so slow that you will have won or lost the game already by then. Ancient Stirrings in green is far better than including blue in my experience for preordain effects. I would also bring your count of Raging Ravine up to a 4x as it is ridiculously good in the deck. It probably made up for over half of my kills with the deck.
The problem for the deck really is inconsistancy. Not drawing a liquimetal coating makes for bad games of bad creatures. One of the few cards that is coming out that might help this deck would be Tezzeret. The big problem with him though is that blue and black are terrible colors for destroying artifacts. So you would probably have to do light on one of those colors and splash red probably for the Maniac Vandals and Oxxida Scrapmelter.
If you are stuck on trying red green which is a decent build for the deck I can give you some more pointers. Bring down the number of natrualize for more creatures with shatter though. They work better as you can beat face with them too. The nature's spiral should probably be in the sideboard as almost nobody runs artifact hate mainboard.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Your deck is interesting, but why would you replace your sanctifiers with viridian corrupter? It would be your only poison creature and therefore have an effective power of 0 in this deck.
The corrupter has
"When Corrupter ETB, destroy target artifact"
It costs 3 to play, the Sanctifier costs 3 to play, BUT you have to pay the kicker of 1 white mana to get the same effect.
This deck has a drastic lack of decent 3 drops that ETB ART-HATE other than replica, though the replica might as well be a 4 drop since you have to pay 1 green after it hits the board to have it do its business.
Overall I like the list, what I've been working on lately is a Naya version, I'll post below in case you get any inspiration. I would say you don't need Gaea's Revenge, at least not maindeck. I like the hoarding dragon idea you may want to go to two.
That's what I'm working with atm. Obviously it includes Besieged cards which I understand we're allowed to post now. So far I haven't tested since the white splash which I only did yesterday. Does anyone have any advice on this mana base? I feel like it could be better.
I like this list. Perhaps you could add Sphere of the Suns and a bit of blinking to reset it?
Allow me to rephrase: What exactly makes creature based artifact removal(Scrapmelter/Vandal) better than Instant based removal (Naturalize/Shatter)? I know the argument is that you can still hit with the creatures, but hell, you have Manlands....
Wow I feel kinda dumb now. I spent a couple hours today working on a Liquimetal Primer since the old thread was moved to archives and as soon as I post it I see that someone made this thread. Well here is the one I made if we want to consolidate the two into one thread it might be easier.
This setup is focused on the creatures instead of the non-body spells. This way if you don't get out your Coating, you still have bodies to throw out. Mim vat really shines in this deck. Get a slime on it and that's all she wrote!
Kor Sanctifiers are ok, but once the Viridian Corrupter takes their spot this deck will just get even better. I'll likely run it as a 4 of and cut a Wall or land.
White allows for recurrence thanks to the Sun Titan, Leyline of Sanctity to deal with Red, Black, and being Fatesealed by Jace. White also gets you Day of Judgement. Nothing says HAHA! Like a Reset Button.
Kozilek is simply there to deal with Mill Decks. NOBODY likes to get milled...
Revoke Existance is to help deal with those pesky Indestructibles.
It's fairly consistant and is guaranteed to piss off a few people.
Kor Firewalkers are most likely the only true defense you have against Red decks. Red decks are probably the hardest matchup, but if you're lucky enough to snag a couple of Kor Firewalkers early enough then you should be ok.
Autumn's Veil really helps a lot vs Black and Blue, very underated card for green me thinks.
While you make a good point, 8/10 times the Leyline only works if its in your opening hand, and although you'd have that dosnt always guarentee it 1st turn drop, and if your opponent goes first or you cant draw it in time memoricide will it hit and it will be all over. Now to the guy with the forum, dont get discouraged, I'm only telling you the biggest weakness
It costs 3 to play, the Sanctifier costs 3 to play, BUT you have to pay the kicker of 1 white mana to get the same effect.
This deck has a drastic lack of decent 3 drops that ETB ART-HATE other than replica, though the replica might as well be a 4 drop since you have to pay 1 green after it hits the board to have it do its business.
Mana curve is a valid argument for most things, but in this case I disagree. Since the corrupter will be a 0 power creature in your deck, why not just replace it with a full compliment naturalize, other cheap green artifact hate? The whole point of creatures with ETB effects is that you can still beat with them after, something which these guys can't do.
Ok guys, here's my argument for creatures vs instants-
Recurrence
Naturalize/Nature's Claim/Whatever...has a one time use.
Whereas with Creatures, you get the same effect of the Instant, PLUS a body. Bodies are useful in so so many ways. Chump blocking, beating face, board presence. In addition to the bodies, we have the Mimic Vat, as well as the Sun Titan. You know what that means? It's an endless supply of Vindication. (Potentially endless anyways)
so... One time use....vs.....Same effect with versitility and potential recurrence...
The argument seems pretty one sided to me. I tried with the full Naturalize and Nature's Claim and other instant speed spell sets, they're great and all...but when you don't have the Coating due to bad draws or your opponent using artifact hate, then you got useless spells in your hand and library. At least with the creatures you can defend yourself instead of waiting for them to finish you off while you wait for another coating to pop up.
Man lands don't always win the game. Sure they will a good percentage of the time, but what about when your opponent has something like, oh, I dunno....Tectonic Edge? Acidic Slime? You can't solely rely on your manlands to do all the work for you. They are a huge tool in your arsenal, but your arsenal shouldn't be just manlands and hoping to destroy all of your opponents lands and other board presence.
Man Lands need support just like any other card. What are you going to do when they doom blade your Man Land?
So...my point is, having 10 creatures(or some other low number like that), and counting your Manland as your main board presence is bad for your health. Pun intended.
Geeze this turned out a lot longer than I anticipated... /post
*edit*
As for the corrupters, they're great as chump bait because if I can't kill a big critter anyways, at least I can chump block with one of them, making it weaker and potentially letting one of my other chumps kill it the next time it attacks or blocks. It's also one way to help deal with something indestructible such as Darksteel Myr/Darksteel Sentinel.
Allow me to rephrase: What exactly makes creature based artifact removal(Scrapmelter/Vandal) better than Instant based removal (Naturalize/Shatter)? I know the argument is that you can still hit with the creatures, but hell, you have Manlands....
The problem with manlands is that they take up your entire turn early on to try swinging with them. That is a bit of a problem if you wanted to do anything else.
If instead you drop a creature that kills off your opponent's threat or land base, that creature must be delt with by your opponent or it will start walking on their life total. Thus you opponent needs to use some control or drop another creature in its way. To which you just drop another creature the pops another one of their lands / creatures and they start loosing to 2 for ones. Even if they have the kill to off a few of them, you will have poped so much of their landbase that it should be extremely difficult for them to hit their 6 mana finishers.
With liquimetal control the first 6 turns really dictates if you win or loose the game. A finisher does little for you if you didn't hold back your opponent early on. Against an agro deck those creatures will help pop off a creature then trade with another when they swing in. One of the strongest options is getting card advantage out of these guys. Think of it as if every creature you droped were a shriekmaw. Thats a bit how liquidmetal control should be played.
Here was my last mockup of the deck. It is a bit different due to my local meta, I had a high agro matchup in my meta at the time so I had modified the deck to fight such decks.
What the full deck looks like right now is:
4 Copperline Gorge
3 Rootbound Crag
2 Tectonic Edge
2 Raging Ravine
8 Mountain
6 Forest
3 Manic Vandal
2 Oxxida Scrapmelter
1 Hoarding Dragon
1 Hoard-Smelter Dragon
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Gaea's Revenge
4 Liquimetal Coating
1 Temple Bell
1 Crystal Ball
Sorceries/Instants
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Galvanic Blast
4 Naturalize
3 Nature's Spiral
I'm running the usual Liquimetal Control Package
4x Naturalize
2x Oxxida Scrapmelter
3x Manic Vandal
These cards are pretty self explanatory.
I've got some card draw, but not much, given the color split:
1x Crystal Ball
1x Temple Bell
I've got a bit of recursion for whatever I need it for, in the form of:
Got some burn as well:
4x Galvanic Blast
I've got a few things as Beatsticks:
1x Hoard-Smelting Dragon
1x Hoarding Dragon
1x Steel Hellkite
1x Gaea's Revenge
I know this is probably too many, but I can't figure out what I would remove....each of them is something I'm happy to draw....Steel Hellkite puts in some serious work in this deck, since it's searchable with Ancient Stirrings, Exilable with Hoarding Dragon, and is a pretty solid creature on its own to boot.
The questions that I had basically revolved around what the final product should look like. The manbase is fine, I have so many R/G dual lands that it just works. What I want to know is:
A) More Crystal Ball's? It seems like the scry is really helpful.
B) What about Sylvok Replica? It's searchable with Ancient Stirrings, and it also hates enchantments. My problem is finding something that I could take out in order to put this in.
Can anyone help me out here? Critiques, tips, anything?
Ok, well, no.
I've honestly got no game plan once on of those hits, other than the fact that I'll probably already have a coating. I know how weak that sounds, believe me....that's another reason that I posted this deck. It has all the beatsticks almost as a backup wincon....but yeah, without the coating, the deck works at like 10% capacity. Ideally, I would have dropped coating turn 2, then turn 3/4 drop creatures that destroy artifacts with CITP abilities, so they wouldn't have the mana to play memoricide, but....yeah, it's something of a problem.
unfortunately, this is well said. the deck is inconsistent and scoops to alot. have you considered a blue based deck for liquidmetal? seems like a reasonable idea if you want card draw, not to mention counterspells to further strengthen your denial strategy. but then, one would start asking themselves if liquid metal coating is necessary at all
Check out NoShyfts, the webcomic that I illustrate for!
GUPrime Speaker ZeganaGU
GGG Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger GGG
GWB Teneb, the Harvester GWB
2 Oxxida Scrapmelter
4 Leonin Relic Warder
4 Manic Vandal
4 Divine Offering
Utility
4 Birds of Paradise
Draw
2 Viridian Revel
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Wall of Omens
Wincon
4 Liquimetal Coating
2 Sun Titan
2 Mimic Vat
2 Raging Ravine
2 Copperline Gorge
2 Stirring Wildwood
3 Mountains
3 Forests
4 Razorverge Thicket
4 Arid Mesa
4 Plains
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Tunnel Ignus
3 Ricochet Trap
3 Autumns Veil
2 Thrun, the Last Troll
That's what I'm working with atm. Obviously it includes Besieged cards which I understand we're allowed to post now. So far I haven't tested since the white splash which I only did yesterday. Does anyone have any advice on this mana base? I feel like it could be better.
I'm a proud member of the Online Campaign for Real English. If you believe in capital letters, correct spelling, and good sentence structure, then copy this into your signature.
"People with needs have trivial purchasing power while people with purchasing power have trivial needs."
-Steve Randy Waldman, Interfludity
There is no reason not to be playing naturalize with G
:symg::symu:
Valakut Aggro
:symr::symg:
23 Forest
Creatures (16)
4 Sylvok Replica
4 Acidic Slime
4 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Wall of Tanglecord
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Liquimetal Coating
4 Naturalize
4 Viridian Revel
2 Slice in Twain
3 Mimic Vat
3 Oxidda Scrapmelter
3 Sylvok Replica
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Molten-tail Masticore
2 Inferno Titan
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Natures Claim
4 Liquimetal Coating
3 Pyroclasm
2 Crystal Ball
2 Mimic Vat
Some new cards im looking out for in new set...
Crush
Leonin Relic-warder
Divine Offering
not sure how im going to alter though, may have to spash white..
WR Boros Burn WR
Modern
R Burn R
Here's what I've been running with great success.
3x Sun Titan
4x Sylvok Replica
3x Kor Sanctifiers - Will be replaced by Viridian Corrupter
3x Wall of Omens
3x Acidic Slime
PW 2
2x Gideon Jura
Artifacts 7
3x Mimic Vat
4x Liquimetal Coating
3x Day of Judgement
4x Ancient Stirrings
3x naturalize
2x Viridian Revel
Land 23
6x Plains
6x Forest
4x Stirring Wildwood
4x Sunpetal Grove
3x Razorverge Thicket
3x Kor Firewalker
4x Autumn's Veil
3x Revoke Existance
4x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
This setup is focused on the creatures instead of the non-body spells. This way if you don't get out your Coating, you still have bodies to throw out. Mim vat really shines in this deck. Get a slime on it and that's all she wrote!
Kor Sanctifiers are ok, but once the Viridian Corrupter takes their spot this deck will just get even better. I'll likely run it as a 4 of and cut a Wall or land.
White allows for recurrence thanks to the Sun Titan, Leyline of Sanctity to deal with Red, Black, and being Fatesealed by Jace. White also gets you Day of Judgement. Nothing says HAHA! Like a Reset Button.
Kozilek is simply there to deal with Mill Decks. NOBODY likes to get milled...
Revoke Existance is to help deal with those pesky Indestructibles.
It's fairly consistant and is guaranteed to piss off a few people.
Kor Firewalkers are most likely the only true defense you have against Red decks. Red decks are probably the hardest matchup, but if you're lucky enough to snag a couple of Kor Firewalkers early enough then you should be ok.
Autumn's Veil really helps a lot vs Black and Blue, very underated card for green me thinks.
Your deck is interesting, but why would you replace your sanctifiers with viridian corrupter? It would be your only poison creature and therefore have an effective power of 0 in this deck.
One of the big things I will leave you with is that liquimetal coating works best as somewhat of an agro / control deck. Dont run the really big splashy stuff as its so slow that you will have won or lost the game already by then. Ancient Stirrings in green is far better than including blue in my experience for preordain effects. I would also bring your count of Raging Ravine up to a 4x as it is ridiculously good in the deck. It probably made up for over half of my kills with the deck.
The problem for the deck really is inconsistancy. Not drawing a liquimetal coating makes for bad games of bad creatures. One of the few cards that is coming out that might help this deck would be Tezzeret. The big problem with him though is that blue and black are terrible colors for destroying artifacts. So you would probably have to do light on one of those colors and splash red probably for the Maniac Vandals and Oxxida Scrapmelter.
If you are stuck on trying red green which is a decent build for the deck I can give you some more pointers. Bring down the number of natrualize for more creatures with shatter though. They work better as you can beat face with them too. The nature's spiral should probably be in the sideboard as almost nobody runs artifact hate mainboard.
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
The corrupter has
"When Corrupter ETB, destroy target artifact"
It costs 3 to play, the Sanctifier costs 3 to play, BUT you have to pay the kicker of 1 white mana to get the same effect.
This deck has a drastic lack of decent 3 drops that ETB ART-HATE other than replica, though the replica might as well be a 4 drop since you have to pay 1 green after it hits the board to have it do its business.
Huh? Who are you talking to and in regards to what?
If you're talking to me about the Viridian Corrupter...then I have no idea how to even respond to that. lol.
I like this list. Perhaps you could add Sphere of the Suns and a bit of blinking to reset it?
Credit to Rivenor for the AWESOME sig.
RKrenko, Mob BossR
RWBAlesha, Who Smiles at DeathBWR
BRRakdos, Lord of RiotsRB
BGRProssh, Skyraider of KherDeckRGB
Modern:WBTokensBW
Standard: BUGSultai DeliriumGUB
While you make a good point, 8/10 times the Leyline only works if its in your opening hand, and although you'd have that dosnt always guarentee it 1st turn drop, and if your opponent goes first or you cant draw it in time memoricide will it hit and it will be all over. Now to the guy with the forum, dont get discouraged, I'm only telling you the biggest weakness
Mana curve is a valid argument for most things, but in this case I disagree. Since the corrupter will be a 0 power creature in your deck, why not just replace it with a full compliment naturalize, other cheap green artifact hate? The whole point of creatures with ETB effects is that you can still beat with them after, something which these guys can't do.
Recurrence
Naturalize/Nature's Claim/Whatever...has a one time use.
Whereas with Creatures, you get the same effect of the Instant, PLUS a body. Bodies are useful in so so many ways. Chump blocking, beating face, board presence. In addition to the bodies, we have the Mimic Vat, as well as the Sun Titan. You know what that means? It's an endless supply of Vindication. (Potentially endless anyways)
so... One time use....vs.....Same effect with versitility and potential recurrence...
The argument seems pretty one sided to me. I tried with the full Naturalize and Nature's Claim and other instant speed spell sets, they're great and all...but when you don't have the Coating due to bad draws or your opponent using artifact hate, then you got useless spells in your hand and library. At least with the creatures you can defend yourself instead of waiting for them to finish you off while you wait for another coating to pop up.
Man lands don't always win the game. Sure they will a good percentage of the time, but what about when your opponent has something like, oh, I dunno....Tectonic Edge? Acidic Slime? You can't solely rely on your manlands to do all the work for you. They are a huge tool in your arsenal, but your arsenal shouldn't be just manlands and hoping to destroy all of your opponents lands and other board presence.
Man Lands need support just like any other card. What are you going to do when they doom blade your Man Land?
So...my point is, having 10 creatures(or some other low number like that), and counting your Manland as your main board presence is bad for your health. Pun intended.
Geeze this turned out a lot longer than I anticipated... /post
*edit*
As for the corrupters, they're great as chump bait because if I can't kill a big critter anyways, at least I can chump block with one of them, making it weaker and potentially letting one of my other chumps kill it the next time it attacks or blocks. It's also one way to help deal with something indestructible such as Darksteel Myr/Darksteel Sentinel.
The problem with manlands is that they take up your entire turn early on to try swinging with them. That is a bit of a problem if you wanted to do anything else.
If instead you drop a creature that kills off your opponent's threat or land base, that creature must be delt with by your opponent or it will start walking on their life total. Thus you opponent needs to use some control or drop another creature in its way. To which you just drop another creature the pops another one of their lands / creatures and they start loosing to 2 for ones. Even if they have the kill to off a few of them, you will have poped so much of their landbase that it should be extremely difficult for them to hit their 6 mana finishers.
With liquimetal control the first 6 turns really dictates if you win or loose the game. A finisher does little for you if you didn't hold back your opponent early on. Against an agro deck those creatures will help pop off a creature then trade with another when they swing in. One of the strongest options is getting card advantage out of these guys. Think of it as if every creature you droped were a shriekmaw. Thats a bit how liquidmetal control should be played.
Here was my last mockup of the deck. It is a bit different due to my local meta, I had a high agro matchup in my meta at the time so I had modified the deck to fight such decks.
4 Manic Vandal
3 Sylvok Replica
4 Oxidda Scrapmelter
2 Inferno Titan
SPELLS (23)
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 nature's claim
4 liquimetal coating
3 Pyroclasm
2 Crystal Ball
2 Mimic Vat
4 Copperline Gorge
4 Rootbound Crag
3 Raging Ravine
7 Forest
6 Mountain
4 Ricochet Trap
2 Nature's Spiral
1 Pyroclasm
1 Inferno Titan
3 Kuldotha Phoenix
2 Naturalize
2 Arc Trail
Let me know if you have any questions about my list or why I picked them
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies