i actually wanna know what our plans are on tectonic edge.. it really really kills this deck.. like so badly it make me mad that its getting close to not playable because of one freaking card.. i didn't think that it would be so bad but my god was i wrong.. seeing more then one of them in a game is usually GG.. its half impossible to get 9 straight land drops and still have removal and counters left to stay alive. not to mention, some of the new jace decks run SS as well, which isn't easy to beat anyways, let alone when they mana screw us
im just curious as to how you all will be approaching this glaring problem.
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I wouldn't have said anything in the first place, but I actually played with countersquall preworldwake and always had a hard time casting it because sometimes I didn't have the right mana or I used it to cast something else. 1U is more versatile and easier to cast. The extra 2 damage is great, but doesn't necessarily win you the game, Cruel does.
So you want to run an inferior card, go for it. You keep the deck at tier 2 while the rest of us try to advance it. Seriously its like saying we should run cancel instead of double negative because of the mana requirement. If you screw up and dont have the right mana for countersquall then you have no business in the developing competitive section. I would never run negate over a better card, keep your fnm stuff out of here.
So you want to run an inferior card, go for it. You keep the deck at tier 2 while the rest of us try to advance it. Seriously its like saying we should run cancel instead of double negative because of the mana requirement. If you screw up and dont have the right mana for countersquall then you have no business in the developing competitive section. I would never run negate over a better card, keep your fnm stuff out of here.
if you actually read the rest of the thread, or any of the last one.. you'd know that YOU sir, have no place in this section. the 2 damage is almost irrelevant for this deck, many times sorin drops them to 10 life anyways, oh wait a second i forgot.. you run inferior cards over sorin.. my bad
negate is better and sorin markov WINS GAMES
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i actually wanna know what our plans are on tectonic edge.. it really really kills this deck.. like so badly it make me mad that its getting close to not playable because of one freaking card.. i didn't think that it would be so bad but my god was i wrong.. seeing more then one of them in a game is usually GG.. its half impossible to get 9 straight land drops and still have removal and counters left to stay alive. not to mention, some of the new jace decks run SS as well, which isn't easy to beat anyways, let alone when they mana screw us
im just curious as to how you all will be approaching this glaring problem.
also @ ob nixilis: This debate has been discussed at length, but god forbid you go back to look... I'm glad now that you are on the topic although it has been disproved many times before, YOU are right. Why would the two life matter. We play double negative because cascade MATTERS ALOT. But two life? Maybe you can kill them a turn earlier after a cruel.. when they have nothing in your hand.
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[CENTER][/CENTER][CENTER]
EllE:
Because she's the hero standard deserves, but not the one it needs right now... and so we'll chase her... because she can take it... because she's not a hero... she's a silent guardian
if you actually read the rest of the thread, or any of the last one.. you'd know that YOU sir, have no place in this section. the 2 damage is almost irrelevant for this deck, many times sorin drops them to 10 life anyways, oh wait a second i forgot.. you run inferior cards over sorin.. my bad
negate is better and sorin markov WINS GAMES
If you say so sir. I myself have actually read the whole tread, if you had you would have noticed me making this comment before. If you want to run sorin and keep the deck at tier 2 go for it. If you can't answer anything, like life gain then you have no business playing the deck. Sorin doesn't work at turn 6. You really want to tap out turn 6. Go for it while they probably smash your face in with some card you already think sorin takes care of.
@Gods_R_Overated
Ok.
Really how many cards in you deck don't produce blue and/or black mana. Trying to cast one turn 2 might suck. All the CiPT doesn't make it matter turn 2. Turn 3. Right. Go for it, I'll take the 2 damage over negate.
If you say so sir. I myself have actually read the whole tread, if you had you would have noticed me making this comment before. If you want to run sorin and keep the deck at tier 2 go for it. If you can't answer anything, like life gain then you have no business playing the deck. Sorin doesn't work at turn 6. You really want to tap out turn 6. Go for it while they probably smash your face in with some card you already think sorin takes care of.
@Gods_R_Overated
Ok.
Really how many cards in you deck don't produce blue and/or black mana. Trying to cast one turn 2 might suck. All the CiPT doesn't make it matter turn 2. Turn 3. Right. Go for it, I'll take the 2 damage over negate.
it pretty funny how your version of grixis is just so much better than everyone elses.. im pretty sure if 90% of people playing this deck use negate.. its prolly better, and you really need to get over yourself and start running sorins like every single good player here dude.. hes that good. hes not all about lifegain hate, he just happens to make it his *****.. therefore allowing use to let people gain as much life as they want, and counter/kill worthwhile spells/creatures
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it pretty funny how your version of grixis is just so much better than everyone elses.. im pretty sure if 90% of people playing this deck use negate.. its prolly better, and you really need to get over yourself and start running sorins like every single good player here dude.. hes that good
I actually test my deck almost everyday. I have vampires, jund, and now boss naya. I have rouge janky decks to play with as well. I can build UW at anytime if I need to test that one as well. I have done well at every event I took my build to. How have you done? I'm not bragging by no means. But if 90% of you are still asking for advice then well.......... Just sayin.
Like passturn's complaining how he did. I talked to him for a bit, and he tried to tell me my build wasn't that good. Look how he did. I am top 8 at 5 events I've done so far. These aren't 5k or anything but solid finishes are still solid finishes.
It seems to me everyone wants to get stuck on saying this or that card is or isn't good.. Sorin doesn't work, 1 of him or maybe 2. So your telling me if your dont draw you 1 or 2 of then you lose, right. Sorin puts them at 10 and who needs countersquall. "I used my sorin to put them at 10 life! Now I win the game!" Manland, countersquall, earthquake, and cruel do well enough to get the win. Keep your sorin.
Alright Queers, listen up.
I can't go to fnm friday because i have to go to a dance but i have prepared my final list for big ol' GAMEDAYYYY!!! *cheers*
Anyway i did a bit by bit breakdown of my deck for your benefit.
Should help newbies to the thread to, you know...see what a good deck looks like jk haha
WORLDWAKE GAME DAY
GRIXIS CONTROL DECKLIST
Blake Haehl
DECK NAME: CIARAN IS BAD AT MAGIC.
My Deck Breakdown for my MTGSALV BUDDIES
Lands
4 Crumbling Necropolis
The tri land is a must. I mean as fragile as this deck can be at times especially with the introduction of so much efficient land destruction in the format we need as many versatile lands as we can squeeze in.
4 Drowned Catacomb
4 Dragonskull Summit
Dual Lands are an auto-include.
3 Scalding Tarn
I only run 3 scalding tarn because I always find myself drawing my regular basic lands and considering I only have 5 targets with scalding tarn I always want to have a target to fetch. I never want to miss a land drop and while shuffling the deck after a brainstorm is nice it won’t get me any closer to cruel ultimatum mana.
2 Creeping Tarpit
I run Tarpit as a 2-of because I think that is a solid balance. 4-of is wayyy too much and I only really want to see creeping tarpits maybe 2 games out of 3 because the extra CIPT land isn’t always welcome when you are trying to cover your ass with all of your counters. Now, while using tarpit you can’t be retarded with it – it’s a way to swing in for 3 damage when you can leave counter mana up and you are sure your opponent cant nuke ur 3/2 beater and set you back a whole land drop.
4 Swamp
3 Island
2 Mountain
Basics are strictly based on personal opinion but I think this is the right number for any deck. 2 Mountains seems to be the set number for grixis because it is never a hard color to hit. Island is a color we like to see more often so I ran that as a 3 of to increase the # of targets for tarn and also its more relevant when you are trying to hit jace and double negatives on such early turns. 4 Swamps are included because they let all of your Duals come into play untapped and they should have priority and you always want to see them so you can hit your terminates and black is the main color for cruel and sorin so the abundance of black in your deck is paramount.
Creatures
3 Sphinx of Jwar Isle
Now, I dropped snappers because 1. I find they come up too frequently. 2. Its occasionally hard to hit UU on turn 3 simply because it forces you to make really hard choices with your scalding tarn. I cannot count the number of times I had a hand that looked something like… Creeping Tarpit, Scalding Tarn, Swamp, Terminate, Lightning Bolt, Calcite Snapper, Double Negative. Just awkward hands like that. They always play out fine but it creates a really awkward start. 3. He just isn’t that great in the sense that he is always performing in the shadow of my counters and removal in which I dedicated their slots to more planeswalkers and removal. Sphinx is amazing and he was a 2-of when I ran the turtles but running only 2 creatures w.o the snappers didn’t make sense so I just decided to bump it up to 3 especially since the 3 snappers gave me a lot of breathing room.
Spells
4 Divination
Divination is the best draw spell that grixis has to offer. Well, it probably goes hand in hand with treasure hunt. Now while treasure hunt combo draws more cards it functions in a combo where I rather like my deck to function sharply and independently. Like I’ve said before while treasure hunt can be good it draws focus from your main goal (CRUELING) and turns it into deck thinning by drawing out all of your land. Now while drawing 3-4 cards off of a 2 mana spell can be awesome I’m far more comfortable with the 2 card consistency of divination.
2 Double Negative
Just a Hard counter that doesn’t stress the mana base too much and it allows you to take dumps on those jund cascades ☺
3 Essence Scatter
Essence Scatter is just…epic. Its one of the best counters and I was running 4 mainboard but that number just felt wrong and dropped it back to 3 and bumped up my EQ count to 3 because the versatility of that card is far more useful that a fourth ES.
3 Cruel Ultimatum
^Best Spell in the Format
3 Negate
Negates to deal with all the mainboard problems and it fits In well with 3 ES 2 DN and it completes the suite and running negate MB gives your deck a solid matchup against any deck G1. Gets rid of mindsludge, protects your cruel, stops c pledge, I doubt I have to list the reasons why this card is good.
4 Terminate
(Look at Ob’s Sig )
4 Lightning Bolt
Uhhh excuse my lack of ‘professionalism’ BUT ITS ☺☺☺☺ING LIGHTNING BOLT
2 Sorin Markov
Now while this card is very controversial I have never found it to be anything less than amazing. It’s a midgame stabilizer which can save your ass keep pinging and t6 sorin w t7 cruel is kinda broken. I mean he’s just an awesome card I’ve advocated his use in the deck a lot recently on the forum and I don’t feel like writing more and making this long post even longer.
3 Earthquake
EQ…ITS OUR ONLY SWEEPER. EQ is very flexible and very reliable and can be used as a finisher. What more needs to be said? Its an alternative to chain reaction but chain reaction is soo unrealiable in every MU except tokens…eldrazi etc. And Chain reaction isn’t a finisher.
3 Jace, the Mindsculptor
Ugh….Jace, while I fight against using him all of the time but I just can’t get around the strength of the combination of his brainstorm and bounce abilities and how long they can keep your opponent off tempo and divert their attention from you dying to oh ☺☺☺☺, its jace deal with it in two turns or I lose. Jace buys you a lot of time and his brainstorm can put you in game winning position and that can never be overvalued. That’s how I use jace I think the whole treasure hunt combo is stupid and a waste of effort when jace is a powerhouse by himself.
Sideboard
4 Duress
Amazing against control Mirrors, I’m considering it against vampires to fish out the mindsudges but that might be overkill when I can probably just save a counter.
3 Malakir Bloodwitch
Any deck that runs white, gets past WoD, Baneslayer, Any problem white cards and it essentially has shroud since it is unpathable, unpurgeable, I mean those are primary means of removal in white decks so she is pretty much a shroudy ☺
3 Chain Reaction
Against Eldrazi, Tokens, Naya all that good stuff and I’m sure boss naya will make an appearance. In those matchups I would just swap them in for the Earthquakes because they are to the same effect except no life loss and it is way more devastating.
4 Flashfreeze
Against Jund because it still continues to develop and top 8 and it is still a problem it will be sided in for any deck that relies heavily on green or red. Aka ELDRAZI, TOKENS, JUND, RDW, GOBLINS, BANT, Anything that runs those colors heh.
1 Negate
I had one slot left why not bring negate in and up to 4 for the control mirror. The deck is geared to mostly against agro so the ability to side in 8 cards (malakir, duress, negate) against control cannot be overlooked.
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As the Last of the Control Players, we are all part of a sacred brotherhood; a band of brothers who would rather die on their knees tapping islands and giving permission than live on our feet cascading into Blightning.
I agree with most of what you said. Saying sorin has to be maindeck, I think is more of a feel for how you like to play. It seems my opinion is not well recieved. I dont hate him, just that so many people say he is a must. Sideboard cards, I ran Bloodwitch too and found that is the first card my UW and UWr control opponents take out. Just what I have seen. With 3 jace I think treasure hunt is stronger, but again it is a matter of how you want to play.
I like it, looks solid. Good luck, I would like to know how you did and what you faced.
I actually test my deck almost everyday. I have vampires, jund, and now boss naya. I have rouge janky decks to play with as well. I can build UW at anytime if I need to test that one as well. I have done well at every event I took my build to. How have you done? I'm not bragging by no means. But if 90% of you are still asking for advice then well.......... Just sayin.
Like passturn's complaining how he did. I talked to him for a bit, and he tried to tell me my build wasn't that good. Look how he did. I am top 8 at 5 events I've done so far. These aren't 5k or anything but solid finishes are still solid finishes.
It seems to me everyone wants to get stuck on something this or that card is or isn't good.. Sorin doesn't work, 1 of him or maybe 2. So your telling me if you dont draw you 1 or 2 of then you lose, right. Sorin puts them at 10 and who needs countersquall. "I used my sorin to put them at 10 life! Now I win the game!" Manland, countersquall, earthquake, and cruel do well enough to get the win. Keep your sorin.
first of all top 8s fnm doesnt mean a whole lot.
secondly, i've been winning about 70-80% of my games since i began playing this deck, i dont keep track completely but i know that today i beat a couple friends multiple times with them using multiple decks. and i know that anyone that says they win more then that consistently is full of it.
third, you dont let the life gain guy keep gaining unless you have a sorin in hand or you jaced him to the top somewhere, thats just common sense, BUT i would be more inclined to let and ondu cleric sit around alot longer sitting at 1/1 than let a kazandu blademaster keep getting huge with limited removal knowing i have 2 sorins in the deck.
and lastly im telling you that running countersquall is stupid because its much much more difficult to counter say, a chalice or an accelerated behemoths sledge on turn 2 (provided your on the play)
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It looks as though, even with Jace 2.0 and better card draw, the pros have written this deck off already thanks to Tectonic Edge. I have attempted to play Grixis control ever since Zendikar was released and in that time, it always made a decent showing at the various standard tournaments but now if you take a look at the last couple of weekends worth of standard tourneys it is almost non-existent. I am going to keep plugging away at it and hope for the best but it's not looking good ladies and gentlemen, not good at all.
Alright, to give you guys something to flame other than yourselves, here my own decklist. I have a question though, when's the best time to play Calcite Snapper, especially against Jund? I'm perenially afraid of eating Blightning on t3, or BBE into Blightning on t4, so I never get a chance to drop it.
and lastly im telling you that running countersquall is stupid because its much much more difficult to counter say, a chalice or an accelerated behemoths sledge on turn 2 (provided your on the play)
None were fnm, pal. And how often does your turn 2 land not come into play tapped and then the percentage of time that land is untapped turn 2 with a negate in hand. I understand the argument. And sledge come out turn 2, in a deck that runs 1 of. Good draws are hard to beat and hard to come by, I dont think it requires we have to build around it.
Alright, to give you guys something to flame other than yourselves, here my own decklist. I have a question though, when's the best time to play Calcite Snapper, especially against Jund? I'm perenially afraid of eating Blightning on t3, or BBE into Blightning on t4, so I never get a chance to drop it.
personally i would take out the Treasure hunts, if you dont run jace, or halimar depths, its not that good. add in the 4th divination for draw. and complete your set of terminates, they're way to good to use only 2. plus i would take out just one negate for a 3rd EQ as sweepers are key
other then that im just not a big fan of chandra, but if she floats your boat thats cool too.. i have her SB, and i would get on jaces bandwagon cuz hes real good.
as for your jund dilemma, cast him if you dont have the counter obv. and if you only have a double negative, save it for BBE, otherwise look at what colors they have make sure they got what they need now, if not take the risk
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personally i would take out the Treasure hunts, if you dont run jace, or halimar depths, its not that good. add in the 4th divination for draw. and complete your set of terminates, they're way to good to use only 2. plus i would take out just one negate for a 3rd EQ as sweepers are key
other then that im just not a big fan of chandra, but if she floats your boat thats cool too.. i have her SB, and i would get on jaces bandwagon cuz hes real good.
as for your jund dilemma, cast him if you dont have the counter obv. and if you only have a double negative, save it for BBE, otherwise look at what colors they have make sure they got what they need now, if not take the risk
This but I would get rid of the swerve in the SB, and add a double negative and something else.
None were fnm, pal. And how often does your turn 2 land not come into play tapped and then the percentage of time that land is untapped turn 2 with a negate in hand. I understand the argument. And sledge come out turn 2, in a deck that runs 1 of. Good draws are hard to beat and hard to come by, I dont think it requires we have to build around it.
they're just examples but the chalice one is a huge setback for the new jace decks. countersquall is just worse then negate dude, everyone here knows and accepts that, you're not a pro, but if you were you'd be running negates. even esper control decks dont run countersquall, maybe you can go tell them they're not as good as you too.
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they're just examples but the chalice one is a huge setback for the new jace decks. countersquall is just worse then negate dude, everyone here knows and accepts that, you're not a pro, but if you were you'd be running negates. even esper control decks dont run countersquall, maybe you can go tell them they're not as good as you too.
Never said I was a pro, so in conclusion my inclusion of countersquall is ok. I have never had a problem casting one and will continue to run them. As long as I'm winning, then why change.
Who the hell cares if negate is better than countersquall or vice versa, it's all a matter of opinion anyways. I'm tired of reading about you two wankers debating over two cards that don't even make much of a difference in this deck in the first place. Damn I hate when people can't just drop their grudges and just move on to something that's actually important or at least informative to the rest of us. Okay I'm done you guys can continue to waste everyones time now, good day.
personally i would take out the Treasure hunts, if you dont run jace, or halimar depths, its not that good. add in the 4th divination for draw. and complete your set of terminates, they're way to good to use only 2.
as for your jund dilemma, cast him if you dont have the counter obv. and if you only have a double negative, save it for BBE, otherwise look at what colors they have make sure they got what they need now, if not take the risk
This but I would get rid of the swerve in the SB, and add a double negative and something else.
I found swerve to be tech against Blightnings, but you're probably right, the uses are very limited elsewhere. Perhaps Pithing Needle SB vs Tectonic Edge?
if you dont care which is better you shouldnt be in a developing competitive forum, and what were doing, debating, is exactly what this forum is made for, to talk about the pros and con of different cards.
and to ob. ill let the negate thing go because if you are ok with it it the same thing essentially, just harder to cast.. but go try playing red/white allys, or some huge lifegain deck, with 2-of sorin and dont kill off the lifegainers, (unless it has the felidar in it) just kill actual threats.. it feels amazing when they think theyre gaining lots of life is relevant then you shatter their dreams
I found swerve to be tech against Blightnings, but you're probably right, the uses are very limited elsewhere. Perhaps Pithing Needle SB vs Tectonic Edge?
your welcome
and i may run a single pithing needle mainboard because it really does alot for us, provided you get it early
no tec edge
no being jaced to death
no manlands if need be
no wasted bolts on plainwalkers
and im sure there plenty more.
and/or perhaps a single Thought Hemorrhage to remove nocturnus or bloodghast, tec edges, jaces, or whatever other nasties we dont like
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Who the hell cares if negate is better than countersquall or vice versa, it's all a matter of opinion anyways. I'm tired of reading about you two wankers debating over two cards that don't even make much of a difference in this deck in the first place. Damn I hate when people can't just drop their grudges and just move on to something that's actually important or at least informative to the rest of us. Okay I'm done you guys can continue to waste everyones time now, good day.
Informative, I will have to try that.
I have a UWr ally deck that gets nasty, it is hard to beat period. I understand the sorin argument. Bruiser might have a slightly valid point I wont argue anymore. It does however give someone reading the ability to come to their own conclusion. Its a matter of how you want to play. The deck right now doesn't have to be net decked and I love it!
if you dont care which is better you shouldnt be in a developing competitive forum, and what were doing, debating, is exactly what this forum is made for, to talk about the pros and con of different cards.
and to ob. ill let the negate thing go because if you are ok with it it the same thing essentially, just harder to cast.. but go try playing red/white allys, or some huge lifegain deck, with 2-of sorin and dont kill off the lifegainers, (unless it has the felidar in it) just kill actual threats.. it feels amazing when they think theyre gaining lots of life is relevant then you shatter their dreams
I couldn't have agreed with you more with your post. Everything you said is true and especially with the life gaining situation. Last FNM, I did play against THE BOSS Naya deck and he was up to 27 health and I was at a measly 12, but once I pulled my Sorin Markov from my deck and played it, it was game over. Put his life points down to 10 and swung for the kill with my Malakirs against his Baneslayers. Sorin has the ability to change the outcome of the match, and I'm so glad I have one in my deck. I might just add another one and replace my Chandra because he's that damn good.
As for the Negate/Countersquall debate, personally I think negate is a better counter just because it's easier to cast, but if countersquall works for you, then by all means play with it. I know most people here play with negate and as do I and I've had no problem playing with negate over countersquall.
I dont have the money to build it yet, mostly cuz jace makes it with the lands and rares like 300$... but i saw some other grixis players at the tournament today
most of them were losing!
to heavy aggro/fast decks like white weenie/rdw/vamps...idk?
since its a really aggro heavy meta these days im looking at testing permafrost trap. i really think its time we started looking outside the box for new options even everflowing chalice isnt out of the question
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im just curious as to how you all will be approaching this glaring problem.
4-0-0
So you want to run an inferior card, go for it. You keep the deck at tier 2 while the rest of us try to advance it. Seriously its like saying we should run cancel instead of double negative because of the mana requirement. If you screw up and dont have the right mana for countersquall then you have no business in the developing competitive section. I would never run negate over a better card, keep your fnm stuff out of here.
if you actually read the rest of the thread, or any of the last one.. you'd know that YOU sir, have no place in this section. the 2 damage is almost irrelevant for this deck, many times sorin drops them to 10 life anyways, oh wait a second i forgot.. you run inferior cards over sorin.. my bad
negate is better and sorin markov WINS GAMES
4-0-0
Start Sleeving up Sideboard Pithing Needles
also @ ob nixilis: This debate has been discussed at length, but god forbid you go back to look... I'm glad now that you are on the topic although it has been disproved many times before, YOU are right. Why would the two life matter. We play double negative because cascade MATTERS ALOT. But two life? Maybe you can kill them a turn earlier after a cruel.. when they have nothing in your hand.
EllE:
If you say so sir. I myself have actually read the whole tread, if you had you would have noticed me making this comment before. If you want to run sorin and keep the deck at tier 2 go for it. If you can't answer anything, like life gain then you have no business playing the deck. Sorin doesn't work at turn 6. You really want to tap out turn 6. Go for it while they probably smash your face in with some card you already think sorin takes care of.
@Gods_R_Overated
Ok.
Really how many cards in you deck don't produce blue and/or black mana. Trying to cast one turn 2 might suck. All the CiPT doesn't make it matter turn 2. Turn 3. Right. Go for it, I'll take the 2 damage over negate.
it pretty funny how your version of grixis is just so much better than everyone elses.. im pretty sure if 90% of people playing this deck use negate.. its prolly better, and you really need to get over yourself and start running sorins like every single good player here dude.. hes that good. hes not all about lifegain hate, he just happens to make it his *****.. therefore allowing use to let people gain as much life as they want, and counter/kill worthwhile spells/creatures
4-0-0
I actually test my deck almost everyday. I have vampires, jund, and now boss naya. I have rouge janky decks to play with as well. I can build UW at anytime if I need to test that one as well. I have done well at every event I took my build to. How have you done? I'm not bragging by no means. But if 90% of you are still asking for advice then well.......... Just sayin.
Like passturn's complaining how he did. I talked to him for a bit, and he tried to tell me my build wasn't that good. Look how he did. I am top 8 at 5 events I've done so far. These aren't 5k or anything but solid finishes are still solid finishes.
It seems to me everyone wants to get stuck on saying this or that card is or isn't good.. Sorin doesn't work, 1 of him or maybe 2. So your telling me if your dont draw you 1 or 2 of then you lose, right. Sorin puts them at 10 and who needs countersquall. "I used my sorin to put them at 10 life! Now I win the game!" Manland, countersquall, earthquake, and cruel do well enough to get the win. Keep your sorin.
I can't go to fnm friday because i have to go to a dance but i have prepared my final list for big ol' GAMEDAYYYY!!! *cheers*
Anyway i did a bit by bit breakdown of my deck for your benefit.
Should help newbies to the thread to, you know...see what a good deck looks like jk haha
WORLDWAKE GAME DAY
GRIXIS CONTROL DECKLIST
Blake Haehl
DECK NAME: CIARAN IS BAD AT MAGIC.
My Deck Breakdown for my MTGSALV BUDDIES
Lands
4 Crumbling Necropolis
The tri land is a must. I mean as fragile as this deck can be at times especially with the introduction of so much efficient land destruction in the format we need as many versatile lands as we can squeeze in.
4 Drowned Catacomb
4 Dragonskull Summit
Dual Lands are an auto-include.
3 Scalding Tarn
I only run 3 scalding tarn because I always find myself drawing my regular basic lands and considering I only have 5 targets with scalding tarn I always want to have a target to fetch. I never want to miss a land drop and while shuffling the deck after a brainstorm is nice it won’t get me any closer to cruel ultimatum mana.
2 Creeping Tarpit
I run Tarpit as a 2-of because I think that is a solid balance. 4-of is wayyy too much and I only really want to see creeping tarpits maybe 2 games out of 3 because the extra CIPT land isn’t always welcome when you are trying to cover your ass with all of your counters. Now, while using tarpit you can’t be retarded with it – it’s a way to swing in for 3 damage when you can leave counter mana up and you are sure your opponent cant nuke ur 3/2 beater and set you back a whole land drop.
4 Swamp
3 Island
2 Mountain
Basics are strictly based on personal opinion but I think this is the right number for any deck. 2 Mountains seems to be the set number for grixis because it is never a hard color to hit. Island is a color we like to see more often so I ran that as a 3 of to increase the # of targets for tarn and also its more relevant when you are trying to hit jace and double negatives on such early turns. 4 Swamps are included because they let all of your Duals come into play untapped and they should have priority and you always want to see them so you can hit your terminates and black is the main color for cruel and sorin so the abundance of black in your deck is paramount.
Creatures
3 Sphinx of Jwar Isle
Now, I dropped snappers because 1. I find they come up too frequently. 2. Its occasionally hard to hit UU on turn 3 simply because it forces you to make really hard choices with your scalding tarn. I cannot count the number of times I had a hand that looked something like… Creeping Tarpit, Scalding Tarn, Swamp, Terminate, Lightning Bolt, Calcite Snapper, Double Negative. Just awkward hands like that. They always play out fine but it creates a really awkward start. 3. He just isn’t that great in the sense that he is always performing in the shadow of my counters and removal in which I dedicated their slots to more planeswalkers and removal. Sphinx is amazing and he was a 2-of when I ran the turtles but running only 2 creatures w.o the snappers didn’t make sense so I just decided to bump it up to 3 especially since the 3 snappers gave me a lot of breathing room.
Spells
4 Divination
Divination is the best draw spell that grixis has to offer. Well, it probably goes hand in hand with treasure hunt. Now while treasure hunt combo draws more cards it functions in a combo where I rather like my deck to function sharply and independently. Like I’ve said before while treasure hunt can be good it draws focus from your main goal (CRUELING) and turns it into deck thinning by drawing out all of your land. Now while drawing 3-4 cards off of a 2 mana spell can be awesome I’m far more comfortable with the 2 card consistency of divination.
2 Double Negative
Just a Hard counter that doesn’t stress the mana base too much and it allows you to take dumps on those jund cascades ☺
3 Essence Scatter
Essence Scatter is just…epic. Its one of the best counters and I was running 4 mainboard but that number just felt wrong and dropped it back to 3 and bumped up my EQ count to 3 because the versatility of that card is far more useful that a fourth ES.
3 Cruel Ultimatum
^Best Spell in the Format
3 Negate
Negates to deal with all the mainboard problems and it fits In well with 3 ES 2 DN and it completes the suite and running negate MB gives your deck a solid matchup against any deck G1. Gets rid of mindsludge, protects your cruel, stops c pledge, I doubt I have to list the reasons why this card is good.
4 Terminate
(Look at Ob’s Sig )
4 Lightning Bolt
Uhhh excuse my lack of ‘professionalism’ BUT ITS ☺☺☺☺ING LIGHTNING BOLT
2 Sorin Markov
Now while this card is very controversial I have never found it to be anything less than amazing. It’s a midgame stabilizer which can save your ass keep pinging and t6 sorin w t7 cruel is kinda broken. I mean he’s just an awesome card I’ve advocated his use in the deck a lot recently on the forum and I don’t feel like writing more and making this long post even longer.
3 Earthquake
EQ…ITS OUR ONLY SWEEPER. EQ is very flexible and very reliable and can be used as a finisher. What more needs to be said? Its an alternative to chain reaction but chain reaction is soo unrealiable in every MU except tokens…eldrazi etc. And Chain reaction isn’t a finisher.
3 Jace, the Mindsculptor
Ugh….Jace, while I fight against using him all of the time but I just can’t get around the strength of the combination of his brainstorm and bounce abilities and how long they can keep your opponent off tempo and divert their attention from you dying to oh ☺☺☺☺, its jace deal with it in two turns or I lose. Jace buys you a lot of time and his brainstorm can put you in game winning position and that can never be overvalued. That’s how I use jace I think the whole treasure hunt combo is stupid and a waste of effort when jace is a powerhouse by himself.
Sideboard
4 Duress
Amazing against control Mirrors, I’m considering it against vampires to fish out the mindsudges but that might be overkill when I can probably just save a counter.
3 Malakir Bloodwitch
Any deck that runs white, gets past WoD, Baneslayer, Any problem white cards and it essentially has shroud since it is unpathable, unpurgeable, I mean those are primary means of removal in white decks so she is pretty much a shroudy ☺
3 Chain Reaction
Against Eldrazi, Tokens, Naya all that good stuff and I’m sure boss naya will make an appearance. In those matchups I would just swap them in for the Earthquakes because they are to the same effect except no life loss and it is way more devastating.
4 Flashfreeze
Against Jund because it still continues to develop and top 8 and it is still a problem it will be sided in for any deck that relies heavily on green or red. Aka ELDRAZI, TOKENS, JUND, RDW, GOBLINS, BANT, Anything that runs those colors heh.
1 Negate
I had one slot left why not bring negate in and up to 4 for the control mirror. The deck is geared to mostly against agro so the ability to side in 8 cards (malakir, duress, negate) against control cannot be overlooked.
Playing: Standard
UWGMythic ConscriptionUWG
47-4-2
UBR Grixis RBU (Retired) 23-17-2
Playing: EDH
Zur the Enchanter
Malfegor
I agree with most of what you said. Saying sorin has to be maindeck, I think is more of a feel for how you like to play. It seems my opinion is not well recieved. I dont hate him, just that so many people say he is a must. Sideboard cards, I ran Bloodwitch too and found that is the first card my UW and UWr control opponents take out. Just what I have seen. With 3 jace I think treasure hunt is stronger, but again it is a matter of how you want to play.
I like it, looks solid. Good luck, I would like to know how you did and what you faced.
first of all top 8s fnm doesnt mean a whole lot.
secondly, i've been winning about 70-80% of my games since i began playing this deck, i dont keep track completely but i know that today i beat a couple friends multiple times with them using multiple decks. and i know that anyone that says they win more then that consistently is full of it.
third, you dont let the life gain guy keep gaining unless you have a sorin in hand or you jaced him to the top somewhere, thats just common sense, BUT i would be more inclined to let and ondu cleric sit around alot longer sitting at 1/1 than let a kazandu blademaster keep getting huge with limited removal knowing i have 2 sorins in the deck.
and lastly im telling you that running countersquall is stupid because its much much more difficult to counter say, a chalice or an accelerated behemoths sledge on turn 2 (provided your on the play)
4-0-0
2 Sphinx of Jwar Isle
3 Calcite Snapper
Spells
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Terminate
2 Earthquake
4 Negate
3 Essence Scatter
2 Into the Roil
3 Divination
3 Treasure Hunt
2 Double Negative
3 Cruel Ultimatum
1 Sorin Markov
1 Chandra Nalaar
Lands
4 Drowned Catacomb
4 Dragonskull Summit
4 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Crumbling Necropolis
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Island
3 Mountain
4 Swamp
4 Spreading Seas
1 Essence Scatter
2 Swerve
2 Vampire Nighthawk
2 Malakir Bloodwitch
2 Thought Hemorrhage
2 Duress
Alright, to give you guys something to flame other than yourselves, here my own decklist. I have a question though, when's the best time to play Calcite Snapper, especially against Jund? I'm perenially afraid of eating Blightning on t3, or BBE into Blightning on t4, so I never get a chance to drop it.
None were fnm, pal. And how often does your turn 2 land not come into play tapped and then the percentage of time that land is untapped turn 2 with a negate in hand. I understand the argument. And sledge come out turn 2, in a deck that runs 1 of. Good draws are hard to beat and hard to come by, I dont think it requires we have to build around it.
personally i would take out the Treasure hunts, if you dont run jace, or halimar depths, its not that good. add in the 4th divination for draw. and complete your set of terminates, they're way to good to use only 2. plus i would take out just one negate for a 3rd EQ as sweepers are key
other then that im just not a big fan of chandra, but if she floats your boat thats cool too.. i have her SB, and i would get on jaces bandwagon cuz hes real good.
as for your jund dilemma, cast him if you dont have the counter obv. and if you only have a double negative, save it for BBE, otherwise look at what colors they have make sure they got what they need now, if not take the risk
4-0-0
This but I would get rid of the swerve in the SB, and add a double negative and something else.
they're just examples but the chalice one is a huge setback for the new jace decks. countersquall is just worse then negate dude, everyone here knows and accepts that, you're not a pro, but if you were you'd be running negates. even esper control decks dont run countersquall, maybe you can go tell them they're not as good as you too.
4-0-0
Never said I was a pro, so in conclusion my inclusion of countersquall is ok. I have never had a problem casting one and will continue to run them. As long as I'm winning, then why change.
That makes plenty of sense, thanks!
I found swerve to be tech against Blightnings, but you're probably right, the uses are very limited elsewhere. Perhaps Pithing Needle SB vs Tectonic Edge?
and to ob. ill let the negate thing go because if you are ok with it it the same thing essentially, just harder to cast.. but go try playing red/white allys, or some huge lifegain deck, with 2-of sorin and dont kill off the lifegainers, (unless it has the felidar in it) just kill actual threats.. it feels amazing when they think theyre gaining lots of life is relevant then you shatter their dreams
4-0-0
your welcome
and i may run a single pithing needle mainboard because it really does alot for us, provided you get it early
no tec edge
no being jaced to death
no manlands if need be
no wasted bolts on plainwalkers
and im sure there plenty more.
and/or perhaps a single Thought Hemorrhage to remove nocturnus or bloodghast, tec edges, jaces, or whatever other nasties we dont like
4-0-0
Informative, I will have to try that.
I have a UWr ally deck that gets nasty, it is hard to beat period. I understand the sorin argument. Bruiser might have a slightly valid point I wont argue anymore. It does however give someone reading the ability to come to their own conclusion. Its a matter of how you want to play. The deck right now doesn't have to be net decked and I love it!
I couldn't have agreed with you more with your post. Everything you said is true and especially with the life gaining situation. Last FNM, I did play against THE BOSS Naya deck and he was up to 27 health and I was at a measly 12, but once I pulled my Sorin Markov from my deck and played it, it was game over. Put his life points down to 10 and swung for the kill with my Malakirs against his Baneslayers. Sorin has the ability to change the outcome of the match, and I'm so glad I have one in my deck. I might just add another one and replace my Chandra because he's that damn good.
As for the Negate/Countersquall debate, personally I think negate is a better counter just because it's easier to cast, but if countersquall works for you, then by all means play with it. I know most people here play with negate and as do I and I've had no problem playing with negate over countersquall.
I dont have the money to build it yet, mostly cuz jace makes it with the lands and rares like 300$... but i saw some other grixis players at the tournament today
most of them were losing!
to heavy aggro/fast decks like white weenie/rdw/vamps...idk?