So there it is. If you had to rank them in regard to how much competitive play they will see in Standard or how much of an influence they will have on the competitive meta - then what's your top 5?
Outside a vacuum, I'd place Vengevine in Momentous Fall's spot. It's a great card but totally situational and in older formats it wouldn't be as great with so many counterspells on top of it's "bad topdeck" status. But I like it better than Vengevine in T2.
Your top 5 is perfect. WW gets student (and its a good fetch target for RoE in some other builds), UW gets wall and Gideon, Jund gets Momentous Fall in the main and Consuming Vapors in the board. I'm glad you didn't have any of the weirdly overvalued junk in here. I think the most overrated card in the set is Vengevine and I'd have it no.6 on the list. It's great... it's going to be awesome where it is played, but that place won't be Jund so it takes a huge hit in terms of how much it's played.
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__________ BBRRRGG Jund UUUWWWR Control RRRRRU Devastating Red
Goblin Arsonist is not, and never will be Mogg Fanatic (which is itself worse under the M10 rules), so please don't over-value it. In reality, the only place it MIGHT see play is in a goblin deck that MIGHT be reasonably competitive.
Good call on Linvala Fantsu. This will see SB play in many competitive decks imo. Oh, and yeah, I knew people would say Vengevine, but it just seems a bit over-hyped atm. Likely many decks will try incorporating it right when the set comes out, but only Naya is likely to succeed.
So a weaker reprint of a card that stopped seeing play when it was still in Standard, was then nerfed again and only has synergy with a Tier 5 deck is in the top 5, but Wall of Omens is trash. Got it.
I think the Goblin Arsonist was a joke. Kinda like the Mindless Null of the set. It's just not very good. I think Vengevine will climb highly in price, peak and then drop slowly. I'd like to get my hands on a playset, but their mythic-ness is quite ridiculous. I might be able to scam some off people at my local store in trades. In other news, Gideon's only going to go up from here, and the Eldrazi will all drop. Also I don't think Wall of Omens is going to be as great as people think it is, Leech and Flame Slash both kill it
So a weaker reprint of a card that stopped seeing play when it was still in Standard, was then nerfed again and only has synergy with a Tier 5 deck is in the top 5, but Wall of Omens is trash. Got it.
Arsonist is actually better than Fanatic after the rules update and works functionally the same
Arsonist is actually better than Fanatic after the rules update and works functionally the same
- This.
Few differences, Fanatic can be sacced in response to exile and such.
but Arsonist is nowhere near the mindless null of the set. I would say its strictly better than raging goblin.
1. It does the 1 extra damage, it's just delayed.
2. It has the opportunity to take out a 2 toughness creature. Something Raging Goblin will never do. (talking strictly card)
Few differences, Fanatic can be sacced in response to exile and such.
but Arsonist is nowhere near the mindless null of the set. I would say its strictly better than raging goblin.
1. It does the 1 extra damage, it's just delayed.
2. It has the opportunity to take out a 2 toughness creature. Something Raging Goblin will never do. (talking strictly card)
And doesn't sac to kill Birds and Nobles which was what Fanatics main purpose was. Not only was Fanatic not good enough at the end, but Arsonist isn't as good and can't do what Fanatic did.
Being better than Raging Goblin isn't saying much. Arsonist won't see real competitive play.
I like the OP's top 5 with the exception of Wall of Omens. I think there are plenty of other cards worth competing for the last slot, but it really remains to be seen how quickly mono-green or G/x beats decklists pick up. Mul Daya Channelers, Vengevine, and Consume the Meek are all definitely top 10. Inquisition of Kozilek is going to give a lot of people headaches.
the only thing that makes arsonist strictly better than mogg fanatic is when you have a sac outlet for him (siege-gang commander comes to mind). other than that, mogg fanatic is a better card hands down.
Wall of Omens, Gideon Jura, Oust, Student of Warfare, Kargan Dragonlord come to mind for me.
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I like Mul Daya Channelers as a sleeper. It needs the deck support and therefore may never end up played, but that's why it's a sleeper and not just awesome, right?
In the right deck it'll be 5/5 almost all the time, for 3 mana and not overly color intensive.
1. Wall of Omens: will push control a lot and change the format
2. Student of Warfare: can't believe this guy is only $5-6
3. Vengevine: Jund finally gets to change its decklist
4. Gideon Jura: a house to be built around
5. Kargan Dragonlord: just very powerful, has a lot of potential
Honorable Mentions:
- Mul Daya Channelers: very good, I can certainly see green playing this. This is a close 6th in the ranking
- Momentous Fall: possibly game changing but also a bit slow for aggro decks. Also if it gets countered is gg
- Consuming Vapors: possibly very good and possibly very bad. For example: bad against Jund, as they can sac thrinax or tokens but good against Bant since all their creatures are "huge". Also kinda bad when your opponent only has one creature and you need to get rid of it. Very situational
- Eldrazi Conscription: I love this card! I don't believe it will be played in the immediate future but maybe when shards rotates out. It is better than casting a lesser Eldrazi since your opponent has no time to respond.
- Emerge Unscathed: counter removal and free bash! This will see play
- Kozilek: too expensive as of now but he's definitely the best colorless Eldrazi out there
- Pelakka Wurk: so broken in limited and still pretty good in t2
Top five:
1.) Vengevine - Frankly, i'm sick of defending this pick. He's phenom.
2.) Gideon Jura - A severe bias here, as i play UWr 'Walkers
3.) Wall of Omens - I remember good ol' wall of blossoms. Now it's in a better color.
4.) Momentous Fall - Path my Vengevine? Nah, I'll draw 4 and gain 3 instead.
5.) Student of Warfare - The closest i can get to Figure of Destiny in standard.
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Decks Modern UWRJeskai ControlRWU RWGBurnGWR Legacy UWStonebladeWU
I havea different veiw on this set. My top 5
1 staggershock
2 rapacious one
3 explosive revelation
4 brimstone mage
5 gravitational shift
Ok I love nukes, back in the day, which was a Wednesday, I played DRACO EXPLOSION which as we all know turn 3 or 4 kill now we have EMRAKUL EXPLOSION, slower but just as effective, staggershock turn 3 and 4 maybe 2/3 plus bolt = turn 5 win grav shift for those eldrazi broodmother decks and rapacious one for mana accel, throw a lotus cobra in a green/red beats and you have a 5/3 trampler at turn 3/4 add bear umbra in and gg token glory, yeaq rap is boltable, but get any totem armor on it and he just wasted his hand.
My first 3 picks are based on my estimate that Polymorph could very well become the new best deck in the format. Jund will still be most played just because it will be cheaper to make for those that can't afford 3 or 4 Jace, the Mindsculptor.
Reality Spasm - Sideboard against control to tap out their mana eot.
I also think that the lists don't really need to be all mythics and rares. There are some powerful commons and uncommons. There are even cards that aren't so powerful (Wall of Omens), but will force the current standard format to shift to play around it.
I think cards like Vengevine and Student of Warfare and Momentous Fall are all very powerful, but I don't see them forcing a change in the environment. I see them instead just replacing a worse card in an already existing deck. The same could be said for my first 3 picks in reference to the polymorph deck, but those could put the polymorph deck so far beyond what it is competatively now, that the whole deck will force the format to change. As a little side note, I see all these people talking about replacing duress with Inquisition of Kozilek. Guess what? That is yet another reason Polymorph.dec gets stronger. Duress hits the polymorph, IoK does not.
Just played my pre release, cards I found were good:
1: Momentous Fall, this thing is really good. I can see it being played in constructed and it was amazing in sealed.
2: Vengevine, my friend had it in his pool at prerelease, the games I watched, it basically looked like a better bloodghast
3: Gideon Jura, white's new best friend
4: Realms Uncharted, really good in the sense that you can find the lands you need, with the slight drawback
5: Awakening Zone, I know this card looks bad, but it seems pretty good in a deck that wants to hard cast eldrazi, kind of like a bad bitterblossom, but it can churn out chump blockers
This list is in no particular order...
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#5: Aura Finesse (being able to "reequip" an aura card is insane enough, but this card is instant speed, costs ONE BLUE MANA AND it cantrips... can a card get any better??)
#4: Glory Seeker (The flavor text on this one is great)
#3: Repay in Kind (okay, not only is this a B-B-BOMB in limited, I think with the spawn generation that's going to be ripping up standard more than even the cascade mechanic can ever have claimed to, I think a seven mana sorcery is not going to be out of the question, in fact I predict it'll fast become the norm... I mean would you rather spend your first three turns on Student of Warfare and Blightning or throw down on some Nest Invader, Awakening Zone action and sit back to cast Kozilek or Emrakul 7,8,9 turns later? Exactly.)
2#: Brimstone Mage (I gotta give a shout out to my buddy Greg for uncovering this card for me, but the potential here is endless. I'll give you a scenario, picture this... turn three you play Brimstone Mage, well assuming you have a land to play on turn four YOU'LL HAVE THE MANA AVAILABLE TO LEVEL HIM! That's what really makes this card work... He's the perfect house to drop on turn 3, and then turn four if you've got four mana, I mean what else are you gonna spend it on?? And not only that, but it'll be even easier to level him if you have an eldrazi spawn! Picture turn two Nest Invader, turn three Brimstone Mage turn four EVEN IF you don't draw a fourth land you can tap three and sac a token to level him and now you've got a 2/3 that can lava dart simply by tapping... sure it still dies to Lightning Bolt, but I mean what doesn't? I think the investment is worth it.)
#1: Magmaw (MARK MY WORDS this is THE sleeper card of ROE! I cracked this baby at the prerelease and showed it to everyone and nobody seemed too enthusiastic, but I recognized the sheer power I was holding. GET YOUR PLAYSETS NOW BEFORE EVERYONE ELSE CATCHES ON BECAUSE THIS IS A CARD THAT WILL BE MAKING WAVES ALL THE WAY BACK TO EXTENDED!!! Can you see the synergy with Awakening Zone?!?!? You basically put them on a twenty turn clock starting on turn 5, EVEN EARLIER because you'd have spawn tokens by then so, maybe as early as turn FOUR... GOD this card just keeps getting better.)
And that's my top 5 for the set, I know I left a few out, but there's so many good cards in this set it's hard to narrow them down to just five... honestly, I don't think anyone can deny that this is the most chaseworthy set since Legends, easy. I mean I crack a booster of ROE and I'm on the edge of my seat wondering what my rare is... I sift through the commons, by the time I'm looking at uncommons my jaw is on the floor from the sheer power of the cards I'm bearing witness to, and then I ever so slowly reveal the rare... ... (with sweat forming on my brow) ... ... DORMANT GOMAZOA!!!!!!! YESSSSSSSSSS!!!!! All that energy get released as I leap from my chair in a fit of pure bliss!
I can't wait to see what other crazy interactions people will come up with and I'm really looking forward to playing more standard now... I usually play Legacy, but now that Rise of the Eldrazi is coming out and we finally have a set that invalidates Jund, I might show up at more FNM's!!!
"Life is wonderful... but why??" Legacy:
Burn
:symr:(:symgb:) Goblins
:symu:(:symw:) Merfolk
:symg::symw::symr: Enchantress
:symg::symw::symr:(:symb:) Zoo
:symg::symw::symu: New Horizons
:symg::symw: Berserk Stompy
:symg::symb:(:symw:) Eva Green
:symg::symb: The Cure
Control
Personally, I see Wall of Omens, Momentous Fall, Consuming Vapors, Student of Warfare, and Gideon Jura as mine (in no particular order). Mul Daya Channelers is my sleeper pick.
Outside a vacuum, I'd place Vengevine in Momentous Fall's spot. It's a great card but totally situational and in older formats it wouldn't be as great with so many counterspells on top of it's "bad topdeck" status. But I like it better than Vengevine in T2.
Your top 5 is perfect. WW gets student (and its a good fetch target for RoE in some other builds), UW gets wall and Gideon, Jund gets Momentous Fall in the main and Consuming Vapors in the board. I'm glad you didn't have any of the weirdly overvalued junk in here. I think the most overrated card in the set is Vengevine and I'd have it no.6 on the list. It's great... it's going to be awesome where it is played, but that place won't be Jund so it takes a huge hit in terms of how much it's played.
BBRRRGG Jund
UUUWWWR Control
RRRRRU Devastating Red
Goblin Arsonist is not, and never will be Mogg Fanatic (which is itself worse under the M10 rules), so please don't over-value it. In reality, the only place it MIGHT see play is in a goblin deck that MIGHT be reasonably competitive.
Good call on Linvala Fantsu. This will see SB play in many competitive decks imo. Oh, and yeah, I knew people would say Vengevine, but it just seems a bit over-hyped atm. Likely many decks will try incorporating it right when the set comes out, but only Naya is likely to succeed.
So a weaker reprint of a card that stopped seeing play when it was still in Standard, was then nerfed again and only has synergy with a Tier 5 deck is in the top 5, but Wall of Omens is trash. Got it.
Arsonist is actually better than Fanatic after the rules update and works functionally the same
Few differences, Fanatic can be sacced in response to exile and such.
but Arsonist is nowhere near the mindless null of the set. I would say its strictly better than raging goblin.
1. It does the 1 extra damage, it's just delayed.
2. It has the opportunity to take out a 2 toughness creature. Something Raging Goblin will never do. (talking strictly card)
My Trading Post
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=226506
And doesn't sac to kill Birds and Nobles which was what Fanatics main purpose was. Not only was Fanatic not good enough at the end, but Arsonist isn't as good and can't do what Fanatic did.
Being better than Raging Goblin isn't saying much. Arsonist won't see real competitive play.
RWG Boss Naya
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In the right deck it'll be 5/5 almost all the time, for 3 mana and not overly color intensive.
2. Vengevine
3. Gideon Jura
4. Wall of Omens
5. Consume the Meek
6. Deprive (Had to throw it in there)
Mark my words......Momentous Fall will change Standard in ways you cant even comprehend yet...........
1. Wall of Omens: will push control a lot and change the format
2. Student of Warfare: can't believe this guy is only $5-6
3. Vengevine: Jund finally gets to change its decklist
4. Gideon Jura: a house to be built around
5. Kargan Dragonlord: just very powerful, has a lot of potential
Honorable Mentions:
- Mul Daya Channelers: very good, I can certainly see green playing this. This is a close 6th in the ranking
- Momentous Fall: possibly game changing but also a bit slow for aggro decks. Also if it gets countered is gg
- Consuming Vapors: possibly very good and possibly very bad. For example: bad against Jund, as they can sac thrinax or tokens but good against Bant since all their creatures are "huge". Also kinda bad when your opponent only has one creature and you need to get rid of it. Very situational
- Eldrazi Conscription: I love this card! I don't believe it will be played in the immediate future but maybe when shards rotates out. It is better than casting a lesser Eldrazi since your opponent has no time to respond.
- Emerge Unscathed: counter removal and free bash! This will see play
- Kozilek: too expensive as of now but he's definitely the best colorless Eldrazi out there
- Pelakka Wurk: so broken in limited and still pretty good in t2
- Mortician Beetle: just kidding
1.) Vengevine - Frankly, i'm sick of defending this pick. He's phenom.
2.) Gideon Jura - A severe bias here, as i play UWr 'Walkers
3.) Wall of Omens - I remember good ol' wall of blossoms. Now it's in a better color.
4.) Momentous Fall - Path my Vengevine? Nah, I'll draw 4 and gain 3 instead.
5.) Student of Warfare - The closest i can get to Figure of Destiny in standard.
Modern
UWRJeskai ControlRWU
RWGBurnGWR
Legacy
UWStonebladeWU
1 staggershock
2 rapacious one
3 explosive revelation
4 brimstone mage
5 gravitational shift
Ok I love nukes, back in the day, which was a Wednesday, I played DRACO EXPLOSION which as we all know turn 3 or 4 kill now we have EMRAKUL EXPLOSION, slower but just as effective, staggershock turn 3 and 4 maybe 2/3 plus bolt = turn 5 win grav shift for those eldrazi broodmother decks and rapacious one for mana accel, throw a lotus cobra in a green/red beats and you have a 5/3 trampler at turn 3/4 add bear umbra in and gg token glory, yeaq rap is boltable, but get any totem armor on it and he just wasted his hand.
GBW Control
UWB Esper Thing Control
Inquisition of Kozilek
Student of Warfare
Consume the Meek
Realms Uncharted
—Lim-Dûl, the Necromancer
Reality Spasm - Sideboard against control to tap out their mana eot.
See Beyond - Shores up a weakness of polymorph
Awakening Zone - Format changing in a way that forces people to change their decks to fight off spawns.
Wall of Omens - Again, will force people to play around it.
Gideon Jura - U/W's new powerhouse.
I also think that the lists don't really need to be all mythics and rares. There are some powerful commons and uncommons. There are even cards that aren't so powerful (Wall of Omens), but will force the current standard format to shift to play around it.
I think cards like Vengevine and Student of Warfare and Momentous Fall are all very powerful, but I don't see them forcing a change in the environment. I see them instead just replacing a worse card in an already existing deck. The same could be said for my first 3 picks in reference to the polymorph deck, but those could put the polymorph deck so far beyond what it is competatively now, that the whole deck will force the format to change. As a little side note, I see all these people talking about replacing duress with Inquisition of Kozilek. Guess what? That is yet another reason Polymorph.dec gets stronger. Duress hits the polymorph, IoK does not.
Student of Warfare
Consuming Vapors
Vengevine
Momentousness Fall
No Order.
Standard
WUW/U HumansUW
Modern
WBW/B TokensBW
1: Momentous Fall, this thing is really good. I can see it being played in constructed and it was amazing in sealed.
2: Vengevine, my friend had it in his pool at prerelease, the games I watched, it basically looked like a better bloodghast
3: Gideon Jura, white's new best friend
4: Realms Uncharted, really good in the sense that you can find the lands you need, with the slight drawback
5: Awakening Zone, I know this card looks bad, but it seems pretty good in a deck that wants to hard cast eldrazi, kind of like a bad bitterblossom, but it can churn out chump blockers
This list is in no particular order...
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LOL
1. Gideon Jura
2. Vengevine
3. Wall of omens
4. Oust
5. Skarrgan Dragonlord
Seriously Momentus Fall is bad though
like pretty bad....
like really bad....
like michael jackson bad.
#4: Glory Seeker (The flavor text on this one is great)
#3: Repay in Kind (okay, not only is this a B-B-BOMB in limited, I think with the spawn generation that's going to be ripping up standard more than even the cascade mechanic can ever have claimed to, I think a seven mana sorcery is not going to be out of the question, in fact I predict it'll fast become the norm... I mean would you rather spend your first three turns on Student of Warfare and Blightning or throw down on some Nest Invader, Awakening Zone action and sit back to cast Kozilek or Emrakul 7,8,9 turns later? Exactly.)
2#: Brimstone Mage (I gotta give a shout out to my buddy Greg for uncovering this card for me, but the potential here is endless. I'll give you a scenario, picture this... turn three you play Brimstone Mage, well assuming you have a land to play on turn four YOU'LL HAVE THE MANA AVAILABLE TO LEVEL HIM! That's what really makes this card work... He's the perfect house to drop on turn 3, and then turn four if you've got four mana, I mean what else are you gonna spend it on?? And not only that, but it'll be even easier to level him if you have an eldrazi spawn! Picture turn two Nest Invader, turn three Brimstone Mage turn four EVEN IF you don't draw a fourth land you can tap three and sac a token to level him and now you've got a 2/3 that can lava dart simply by tapping... sure it still dies to Lightning Bolt, but I mean what doesn't? I think the investment is worth it.)
#1: Magmaw (MARK MY WORDS this is THE sleeper card of ROE! I cracked this baby at the prerelease and showed it to everyone and nobody seemed too enthusiastic, but I recognized the sheer power I was holding. GET YOUR PLAYSETS NOW BEFORE EVERYONE ELSE CATCHES ON BECAUSE THIS IS A CARD THAT WILL BE MAKING WAVES ALL THE WAY BACK TO EXTENDED!!! Can you see the synergy with Awakening Zone?!?!? You basically put them on a twenty turn clock starting on turn 5, EVEN EARLIER because you'd have spawn tokens by then so, maybe as early as turn FOUR... GOD this card just keeps getting better.)
And that's my top 5 for the set, I know I left a few out, but there's so many good cards in this set it's hard to narrow them down to just five... honestly, I don't think anyone can deny that this is the most chaseworthy set since Legends, easy. I mean I crack a booster of ROE and I'm on the edge of my seat wondering what my rare is... I sift through the commons, by the time I'm looking at uncommons my jaw is on the floor from the sheer power of the cards I'm bearing witness to, and then I ever so slowly reveal the rare... ... (with sweat forming on my brow) ... ... DORMANT GOMAZOA!!!!!!! YESSSSSSSSSS!!!!! All that energy get released as I leap from my chair in a fit of pure bliss!
I can't wait to see what other crazy interactions people will come up with and I'm really looking forward to playing more standard now... I usually play Legacy, but now that Rise of the Eldrazi is coming out and we finally have a set that invalidates Jund, I might show up at more FNM's!!!
Is everyone as excited as I am??
Don't troll. It's not funny.
Legacy:
Burn
:symr:(:symgb:) Goblins
:symu:(:symw:) Merfolk
:symg::symw::symr: Enchantress
:symg::symw::symr:(:symb:) Zoo
:symg::symw::symu: New Horizons
:symg::symw: Berserk Stompy
:symg::symb:(:symw:) Eva Green
:symg::symb: The Cure
Control
Um... seems good?
Also, I hate the voice inside my head that tells me Momentous Fall is a bad card. It's like my id and superego are arguing over its merits.. D:
"It's a terrible topdeck!"
"Jund doesn't need topdecks!"
"Jund also doesn't to sac a dude and keep mana open on its fourth turn!"
Yeah, uh... I don't talk to myself though, I swear.