So, if you haven't seen it, you sacrifice Marauders to Husk which triggers either Shenanigans or the Lizard, and your Goblin Warrior persists back, its -1/-1 counter being canceled by awesome Elf dude. You can then infi out ftw. This combo I'm pretty sure is resiliant to terror, unmake, etc., because you can combo out in response. I'm sure there are ways of disruption, so chime in if you find any gaping holes. You can also win by just getting enough Shenans and Lizards out there that sacrificing the Marauders alone a couple times will kill your opponent, that is if you don't have Paragon. I usually run both, maybe 4 Shenanigans and 3 Lizards.
Why I'm posting this is I'm looking for advice of how I might build a deck around this. I think Tutor 1 and Tutor 2 are no brainers, and I usually include Commune with Nature in here as well. I'm just trying to figure how to fill it out. At first I tried stuff that Husk decks usually include, like Bitterblossom, Kitchen Finks, Murderous Redcap, and Sprouting Thrinax, but it was too slow; the effectiveness of the creatures didn't seem to make up for the ground I already lost.
My current build includes mostly removal: Jund Charm and Pyroclasm, and I'm thinking about possibly more burn. The Jund Charms have been fantastic, buying me time against kithy and faeries to get something going. Never forget the other Jund ability to add +1/+1 counters; this has come up big in some matches where I need to get of persist counters before the combo will work.
So please chime in. I hope there are some awesome builders who know just what this needs. It's a lot of fun, and I was desperately seeking a combo for T2 and discovered this one all on my own I am proud to say.
what about throwing quillspike in here (synergy with the neggy counters), you could even rock the quillspike/devoted druid combo in here as well. you might want another sac outlet as well.
just some thoughts...
I posted this idea the very instant Persist was spoiled, I even mentioned Bramblewood Paragon as the likely poster boy
Anyways you could add some more redundancy in the form of Mash Flitterer and Furystoke Giant...both of which play nicely together. Giant doesn't work with Boggart Shenangans though for inf damage, or the marsh fliterer for sacrifice outlet....but he at least works with husk and the rest of the deck
I'm really hesitant on throwing the whole quillspike thing in here. Awkward.
Reveillark is the man, but can't recur Scuzzback, or Lizard, or if someone happens to disenchant Shenanigans. That's three. It CAN recur husk and paragon, but is not worth splashing for just that.
If I am not mistaken, there are no more free sac outlets other than Husk, right?
Edit: +1/+1 counters don't remove -1/-1 counters from creatures if that's your plan. They just cancel each other out, giving neither a negative or positive bonus until more counters are added.
I would consider Boggart Harbinger. That could be very useful as its superior to Queen in finding Marauders, but Queen finds everything else as well, as does Diabolic. I really like general tutors. Elvish Harbinger just finds Bramblewood, which isn't nearly as useful.
Madding I agree 99% with you. If he waits until t3/4 to start of the combo he could already be severely damaged and steps away from a game finishing combo by his opponent.
Edit: +1/+1 counters don't remove -1/-1 counters from creatures if that's your plan. They just cancel each other out, giving neither a negative or positive bonus until more counters are added.
Scuzzback persists back, and its -1/-1 is canceled out by bramblewood's +1/+1, thus allowing you to go infi.
Madding I agree 99% with you. If he waits until t3/4 to start of the combo he could already be severely damaged and steps away from a game finishing combo by his opponent.
See that's my problem. The combo is slow, and has 4 seperate pieces. The best solution to grinding the opponent to a halt I've found is mass removal. I've played many games, esp. Kithkin, where you just need one more turn but their dudes are too strong.
OMG. There was deck based around the rule, awhile back.
If a creature has a -1/-1 counter, and +1/+1 counter, they get removed from the creature. This is, as far as I know, the only instance in which this happens in Magic.
It was even on some of the inserts in Shadowmoor packs. Seriously, don't say something doesn't work, when you don't actually know.
420.5n - If a permanent has both a +1/+1 counter and a -1/-1 counter on it, N +1/+1 and N -1/-1 counters are removed from it, where N is the smaller of the number of +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters on it.
It's hardly new, but it's cute...I just fear it is painfully slow and obvious...particulalry if you broadcast to your opponent what you are doing with various tutors. What can you do early game or in games 2/3 to stay alive? Cryptic Command and Oblivion Ring might ruin your day
It's hardly new, but it's cute...I just fear it is painfully slow and obvious...particulalry if you broadcast to your opponent what you are doing with various tutors. What can you do early game or in games 2/3 to stay alive? Cryptic Command and Oblivion Ring might ruin your day
God! I'm not claiming to be an innovator! I just never saw this version of the combo before.
And you are absolutely right! I'm also not claiming this is an amazing deck! I'D LIKE IT TO BE, that's why I posted it. Like I said, I'm looking for answers.
Bitterblossom will give you chump blockers. I still like the idea of Canonist. But removal is working best right now.
God! I'm not claiming to be an innovator! I just never saw this version of the combo before.
And you are absolutely right! I'm also not claiming this is an amazing deck! I'D LIKE IT TO BE, that's why I posted it. Like I said, I'm looking for answers.
Bitterblossom will give you chump blockers. I still like the idea of Canonist. But removal is working best right now.
Settle, young fella...my primary concern is the lack of anything to do the first few turns...if you go with some token producing cards like BB or lots of persisters, I think Bone Splinters might be wroth tossing in to get rid of larger creatures that are >2-3 toughness...Magma Spray is another cheap costing card that can help
Or how about a combo with Flourishing Defenses?
Bramblewood, Nantuko, Scuzz are in play. You play Flourishing Defenses, sac scuzz to nantuko, it returns with a -1/-1 counter and than loses that counter. You create a 1/1 Elf token. You do this as many times as you want.
Or am I missing something in the 420.5n rule?
Well, even if you only sacrafice 1 creature, your still generating a good amount of tokens each upkeep. I honestly don't know lol. I like Witch more no matter what.
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4 Scuzzback Marauders
4 Bramblewood Paragon
4 Boggart Shenanigans
So, if you haven't seen it, you sacrifice Marauders to Husk which triggers either Shenanigans or the Lizard, and your Goblin Warrior persists back, its -1/-1 counter being canceled by awesome Elf dude. You can then infi out ftw. This combo I'm pretty sure is resiliant to terror, unmake, etc., because you can combo out in response. I'm sure there are ways of disruption, so chime in if you find any gaping holes. You can also win by just getting enough Shenans and Lizards out there that sacrificing the Marauders alone a couple times will kill your opponent, that is if you don't have Paragon. I usually run both, maybe 4 Shenanigans and 3 Lizards.
Why I'm posting this is I'm looking for advice of how I might build a deck around this. I think Tutor 1 and Tutor 2 are no brainers, and I usually include Commune with Nature in here as well. I'm just trying to figure how to fill it out. At first I tried stuff that Husk decks usually include, like Bitterblossom, Kitchen Finks, Murderous Redcap, and Sprouting Thrinax, but it was too slow; the effectiveness of the creatures didn't seem to make up for the ground I already lost.
My current build includes mostly removal: Jund Charm and Pyroclasm, and I'm thinking about possibly more burn. The Jund Charms have been fantastic, buying me time against kithy and faeries to get something going. Never forget the other Jund ability to add +1/+1 counters; this has come up big in some matches where I need to get of persist counters before the combo will work.
So please chime in. I hope there are some awesome builders who know just what this needs. It's a lot of fun, and I was desperately seeking a combo for T2 and discovered this one all on my own I am proud to say.
Thanks,
Ulyssesm90
just some thoughts...
Anyways you could add some more redundancy in the form of Mash Flitterer and Furystoke Giant...both of which play nicely together. Giant doesn't work with Boggart Shenangans though for inf damage, or the marsh fliterer for sacrifice outlet....but he at least works with husk and the rest of the deck
Nice idea..
But once the Scuzzback Marauders removed, it's done...
4x Reflecting Pool
4x Gilt-Leaf Palace
4x Llanowar Wastes
4x Twilight Mire
4x Treetop Village
4x Mutavault
4x Nantuko Husk
4x Bramblewood Paragon
4x Marsh Flitter
4x Devoted Druid
4x Quillspike
3x Kitchen Finks
3x Murderous Redcap
4x Rite of Consumption
3x Overrun
3x Manamorphose
Gogo double combo!
Thanks to spiderboy4 of High~Light Studios for the awesome banner and avatar!
Reveillark is the man, but can't recur Scuzzback, or Lizard, or if someone happens to disenchant Shenanigans. That's three. It CAN recur husk and paragon, but is not worth splashing for just that.
If I am not mistaken, there are no more free sac outlets other than Husk, right?
Here's my current decklist:
4 Nantuko Husk
4 Bramblewood Paragon
4 Scuzzback Marauders
4 Hissing Iguanar
Other Spells:
4 Pyroclasm
4 Jund Charm
4 Commune With Nature
2 Diabolic Tutor
3 Beseech the Queen
4 Boggart Shenanigans
4 Reflecting Pool
2 Twilight Mire
3 Vivid Crag
3 Vivid Grove
4 Vivid Marsh
3 Fire-Lit Thicket
4 Savage Lands
My Sales Post!
No creatures except other Bramblewood Paragon would be getting +1/+1 counters.
Edit: +1/+1 counters don't remove -1/-1 counters from creatures if that's your plan. They just cancel each other out, giving neither a negative or positive bonus until more counters are added.
Scuzzback persists back, and its -1/-1 is canceled out by bramblewood's +1/+1, thus allowing you to go infi.
See that's my problem. The combo is slow, and has 4 seperate pieces. The best solution to grinding the opponent to a halt I've found is mass removal. I've played many games, esp. Kithkin, where you just need one more turn but their dudes are too strong.
If a creature has a -1/-1 counter, and +1/+1 counter, they get removed from the creature. This is, as far as I know, the only instance in which this happens in Magic.
It was even on some of the inserts in Shadowmoor packs. Seriously, don't say something doesn't work, when you don't actually know.
Thanks to spiderboy4 of High~Light Studios for the awesome banner and avatar!
i.e. they cancel
Yes, that deck was Project 420.5n. Look it up.
No double posting.. merged
Counter spells, damage spells, board wipers, bounce all stop the combo from finishing. Or a good old RFG card.
Yeah, I know. What about maybe Ethersworn Canonist?
And remember, cards like Terror we can just go off in response to.
Merged.. again.
God! I'm not claiming to be an innovator! I just never saw this version of the combo before.
And you are absolutely right! I'm also not claiming this is an amazing deck! I'D LIKE IT TO BE, that's why I posted it. Like I said, I'm looking for answers.
Bitterblossom will give you chump blockers. I still like the idea of Canonist. But removal is working best right now.
Settle, young fella...my primary concern is the lack of anything to do the first few turns...if you go with some token producing cards like BB or lots of persisters, I think Bone Splinters might be wroth tossing in to get rid of larger creatures that are >2-3 toughness...Magma Spray is another cheap costing card that can help
or
Mycoloth
?
Or how about a combo with
Flourishing Defenses?
Bramblewood, Nantuko, Scuzz are in play. You play Flourishing Defenses, sac scuzz to nantuko, it returns with a -1/-1 counter and than loses that counter. You create a 1/1 Elf token. You do this as many times as you want.
Or am I missing something in the 420.5n rule?
Defenses is good, but expensive. This deck is slow enough as it is.
I see witch (might as well pump Hush), but what were you thinking with Mycoloth?