I very much doubt we'll see Nephilim legends, like for a really long time. It's simply too close to a full-color theme to actually make it attractive and overall there's little support for that amount of colors.
Making the shards or wedges is the limit I think as they represent somewhat a theme of identity and still lacks a few colors so their answers can be diversified between the colors but still be lackluster to some things.
It wouldn't surprise me if the next commander is another Wedge and possibly the next after a Shards-based again. After that I suppose we'll see if they'll create more commander cycles, and if they do I wouldn't be surprised if it was 2-colored, allied-colors and enemy-colors to make two additional cycles.
My reasoning for another round of Wedge commander: The low amount of tri-color generals.
It would be nice to have to option, but studies and experience show that 4 color creatures are hard to design properly, and are generally not well liked.
If anybody in my playgroup was hellbent on playing a 4color Commander, I'd let them use the Nephilim.
It would be easy to do 4-color legendary Dragons. Every color has had Dragons, and you can make them powerful. Say the one without green. Give him W R combat abilities and a U/B special ability like milling.
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It would be nice to have to option, but studies and experience show that 4 color creatures are hard to design properly, and are generally not well liked.
I bet they'd be well liked purely for being 4-colour Commanders. Commander is a funny format that can drastically change how a card is received, and I think putting them in a Commander product would effectively negate the unpopularity effect (if such an effect can be reasonably surmised from a sample size of only five in the first place)
Whether they will or not is another question. I was half expecting this product to be 4-colour. Instead, they went with shards, which already have a lot of available Legends. So it's difficult to predict what they'll do next. Maybe they'll go back to wedges and make it an alternating thing, or maybe they'll just abandon the symmetrical 5 deck plan and have whatever colour combinations they happen to choose. They still might do 4-colour but I think the fact that this wasn't it lowers those odds significantly.
Major props to Zaphod and High~Light Studios for the sig!
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me
One is Slivers
One is Dragons
One is Elementals
One is 5 color artifacts with a Scarecrow subtheme
The last one gets Cromat
What's wrong with Cromat? D:
I think allied two color is the most likely. I'm not sure how they'd throw in colorless and five color, but it'd be cool. Maybe do three wedges and one five color, one colorless?
Which existing five color legend would be the most likely to be thrown in? I think Cromat, honestly, the other ones are fairly too "build around" although seeing Reaper King get more support would be awesome.
Winatog
WUBRG
Legendary Creature- Atog
Each other Atog Creature gets +1/+1 and has protection from it's own color.
Whenever Winatog or another Atog creature enters the battlefield choose two: Draw a card; Each Atog creature you control gets +1/+0 until end of turn; Atog Creatures you control gain protection from the color of your choice until end of turn; Put a +1/+1 Counter on Each Atog creature you control, untap those creatures; Each opponent sacrifices a non-Atog creature.
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Major props to Zaphod and High~Light Studios for the sig!
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me
I dunno, I was rushing and tired, I guess a better one instead of the +1/+0 would be "Deal damage equal to the number of Atogs you control to each/target Opponent"
Probably not gonna happen but it'd be cool
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Major props to Zaphod and High~Light Studios for the sig!
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me
I doubt that WotC shall give much attention to four-color combinations, since they are difficult to design; a four-colored card is too similar to a five-colored card, so it is often easier to simply make a card all five colors, instead.
I myself would like to see both a five-colored deck and a completely colorless deck in the next Commander set, since those are areas that are seldom explored in most formats, which give WotC much room for exploration.
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“Those who would trade their freedoms for security will have neither.”-Benjamin Franklin
“When the people fear the government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.”-Thomas Jefferson
“A vote is like a rifle; its usefulness depends upon the character of its user.”-Theodore Roosevelt
“Patriotism means to stand by one's country; it does not mean to stand by one's president.”-Theodore Roosevelt
I doubt that WotC shall give much attention to four-color combinations, since they are difficult to design; a four-colored card is too similar to a five-colored card, so it is often easier to simply make a card all five colors, instead.
I myself would like to see both a five-colored deck and a completely colorless deck in the next Commander set, since those are areas that are seldom explored in most formats, which give WotC much room for exploration.
Having looked into it, a completely colorless commander deck, while not impossible by any means, cannot have any basic lands, and thus has a rather complicated and confusing mana base. It also can't run the two lands they've made specifically for commander, so I doubt they would do it.
It occurs to me that all we were promised was a Commander Product each year. We were never told we would get Commander decks each year. Remember that last year's product was the Commander's Arsenal.
With that in mind, things that could happen next year are....
5 more decks: Seems like kind of the easy way but could also overwhelm players and use up design space quickly. Arsenal 2: If printed at levels seen with the decks this could be HUGE and would leave players much happier then they were after the first one. Commander Masters: A small set of Commander focused cards much like Modern Masters but I would hope again printed at higher volumes so casual players can get a crack at it. Commander Toolkit: Something like the current toolkits that could jump start new players but that could have good new and old cards in it so experienced people could still get something out of it. Something Else: They do have some clever people working there.
One of the best parts about any of the non deck ideas is that 4 color legends could be included and it would be up to the player to create the deck so it's not Wizard's fault if it all just feels like 5 color.
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There's no proof she's being chased
by ninja squirrels either. - Dr. Wilson
Having looked into it, a completely colorless commander deck, while not impossible by any means, cannot have any basic lands, and thus has a rather complicated and confusing mana base. It also can't run the two lands they've made specifically for commander, so I doubt they would do it.
I would think that preconstructed colorless commander deck would be the perfect place to place a relentless land into. And by that I mean a land that only taps for colorless mana that states on it, "A deck can have any number of cards named ~". Where ~ is the name of the land and then have those be in place of the basic lands that come in these things. If nothing else, it would make constructing a colorless general a lot more appealing to those on a budget.
I would think that preconstructed colorless commander deck would be the perfect place to place a relentless land into. And by that I mean a land that only taps for colorless mana that states on it, "A deck can have any number of cards named ~". Where ~ is the name of the land and then have those be in place of the basic lands that come in these things. If nothing else, it would make constructing a colorless general a lot more appealing to those on a budget.
Rosewater's article on Oct 28 explained that the big problem with 4 color generals is that there would be no prexisting alt commanders to reprint. They would have to design 3 generals per set. The only way I can see them creating such cards if is if they are in a 5 color deck or in another PCH or ARC set.
Even if they are hard to design, there is a demand for them. Someday there will be 4 color legendaries.
Honestly, they should have just made legendary Nephilim in Return to Ravnica, but there are only so many things you can revisit in the block and Nephilim were probably pretty low on the list.
I think we will see wedge decks again next year or a combination of wedge and shard decks (with the unused combinations coming up the following year). I don't think we'll see something like Commander's Arsenal again because the only reason they did that was because they wanted to make something for Commander, but the decision was made too late to create a new set of cards/decks.
Personally, I doubt we will ever see 4-color Legends. As a lot of people have pointed out, they are really hard to design (especially for the justification "because they haven't been done"), as a creature with all but one color will more often than not seem like a five-color, or worse, just seem to have no identity at all. Also, while there is certainly a subset of players that want them, it isn't a very big one, and in any case most of the time a 4-color EDH deck would be nigh indistinguishable from a 5-color deck with a similar strategy.
And in any case, there are options for 4-color decks if you really want one - for instance, as many have mentioned, I would imagine that your playgroup would let you use the Nephilim as commanders if you really wanted too, besides which you can use a five-color commander if you want to build a 4-color deck but don't want to use the Nephilim (things like filter lands, Command Tower, and anything which says "add mana of any color to your mana pool" could be used to cast it, and you'd probably use such things in a 4-color deck anyway - besides which that Reaper King can be cast with only 4 colors).
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Someday, I will own all of the dragons. All of them. 43/111, approximately 39% complete. Over a third done.
(calling it now; there will be a cycle of Legendary dual lands with Basic Land types in Theros block)
... AAAAAAAAND I was wrong
2. If so how would they be split up into five decks. I think the only way they could do so would be
WUBR
UBRG
BRGW
RGWU
GWUB
With each deck defined more by the lack of a color than the colors it contains.
3. Any possible ideas for the generals?
Making the shards or wedges is the limit I think as they represent somewhat a theme of identity and still lacks a few colors so their answers can be diversified between the colors but still be lackluster to some things.
It wouldn't surprise me if the next commander is another Wedge and possibly the next after a Shards-based again. After that I suppose we'll see if they'll create more commander cycles, and if they do I wouldn't be surprised if it was 2-colored, allied-colors and enemy-colors to make two additional cycles.
My reasoning for another round of Wedge commander: The low amount of tri-color generals.
If anybody in my playgroup was hellbent on playing a 4color Commander, I'd let them use the Nephilim.
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It's not like they are going to get a huge (or any at all really) advantage from it
5 colors deck X voltrom colorless deck
Cromat X Kozilek .... Buahahaha
I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝
One is Slivers
One is Dragons
One is Elementals
One is 5 color artifacts with a Scarecrow subtheme
The last one gets Cromat
Owner of IcyGeek.com
I bet they'd be well liked purely for being 4-colour Commanders. Commander is a funny format that can drastically change how a card is received, and I think putting them in a Commander product would effectively negate the unpopularity effect (if such an effect can be reasonably surmised from a sample size of only five in the first place)
Whether they will or not is another question. I was half expecting this product to be 4-colour. Instead, they went with shards, which already have a lot of available Legends. So it's difficult to predict what they'll do next. Maybe they'll go back to wedges and make it an alternating thing, or maybe they'll just abandon the symmetrical 5 deck plan and have whatever colour combinations they happen to choose. They still might do 4-colour but I think the fact that this wasn't it lowers those odds significantly.
Nah, the last one would be Atogatog
Major props to Zaphod and High~Light Studios for the sig!
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me
What's wrong with Cromat? D:
I think allied two color is the most likely. I'm not sure how they'd throw in colorless and five color, but it'd be cool. Maybe do three wedges and one five color, one colorless?
Which existing five color legend would be the most likely to be thrown in? I think Cromat, honestly, the other ones are fairly too "build around" although seeing Reaper King get more support would be awesome.
WUBRGCommander Decklists - PaperWUBRG
CCCCCommander Decklists - TheorycraftCCCC
Sig Credit: Pegasus Bishop
But what would be the new general? Atogatogatog?
Winatog
WUBRG
Legendary Creature- Atog
Each other Atog Creature gets +1/+1 and has protection from it's own color.
Whenever Winatog or another Atog creature enters the battlefield choose two: Draw a card; Each Atog creature you control gets +1/+0 until end of turn; Atog Creatures you control gain protection from the color of your choice until end of turn; Put a +1/+1 Counter on Each Atog creature you control, untap those creatures; Each opponent sacrifices a non-Atog creature.
Major props to Zaphod and High~Light Studios for the sig!
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me
Why would you choose the first one?
Also, I support four color commanders.
Probably not gonna happen but it'd be cool
Major props to Zaphod and High~Light Studios for the sig!
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me
I myself would like to see both a five-colored deck and a completely colorless deck in the next Commander set, since those are areas that are seldom explored in most formats, which give WotC much room for exploration.
“When the people fear the government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.”-Thomas Jefferson
“A vote is like a rifle; its usefulness depends upon the character of its user.”-Theodore Roosevelt
“Patriotism means to stand by one's country; it does not mean to stand by one's president.”-Theodore Roosevelt
Having looked into it, a completely colorless commander deck, while not impossible by any means, cannot have any basic lands, and thus has a rather complicated and confusing mana base. It also can't run the two lands they've made specifically for commander, so I doubt they would do it.
With that in mind, things that could happen next year are....
5 more decks: Seems like kind of the easy way but could also overwhelm players and use up design space quickly.
Arsenal 2: If printed at levels seen with the decks this could be HUGE and would leave players much happier then they were after the first one.
Commander Masters: A small set of Commander focused cards much like Modern Masters but I would hope again printed at higher volumes so casual players can get a crack at it.
Commander Toolkit: Something like the current toolkits that could jump start new players but that could have good new and old cards in it so experienced people could still get something out of it.
Something Else: They do have some clever people working there.
One of the best parts about any of the non deck ideas is that 4 color legends could be included and it would be up to the player to create the deck so it's not Wizard's fault if it all just feels like 5 color.
There's no proof she's being chased
by ninja squirrels either. - Dr. Wilson
I would think that preconstructed colorless commander deck would be the perfect place to place a relentless land into. And by that I mean a land that only taps for colorless mana that states on it, "A deck can have any number of cards named ~". Where ~ is the name of the land and then have those be in place of the basic lands that come in these things. If nothing else, it would make constructing a colorless general a lot more appealing to those on a budget.
Barry's Land, at long last!
Even if they are hard to design, there is a demand for them. Someday there will be 4 color legendaries.
I think we will see wedge decks again next year or a combination of wedge and shard decks (with the unused combinations coming up the following year). I don't think we'll see something like Commander's Arsenal again because the only reason they did that was because they wanted to make something for Commander, but the decision was made too late to create a new set of cards/decks.
And in any case, there are options for 4-color decks if you really want one - for instance, as many have mentioned, I would imagine that your playgroup would let you use the Nephilim as commanders if you really wanted too, besides which you can use a five-color commander if you want to build a 4-color deck but don't want to use the Nephilim (things like filter lands, Command Tower, and anything which says "add mana of any color to your mana pool" could be used to cast it, and you'd probably use such things in a 4-color deck anyway - besides which that Reaper King can be cast with only 4 colors).
43/111, approximately 39% complete. Over a third done.
(calling it now; there will be a cycle of Legendary dual lands with Basic Land types in Theros block)
... AAAAAAAAND I was wrong
The Attention Deficit Guy URGU
i.e. design 1 4 colour commanders for each combo and then reprint 2 relevant 2 colour generals.
or Design 1 4 colour general and 1-2 4 colour spells to go with.
If you read MaRo's article he was pretty clear that it was the requirement for 3 generals per deck that was the issue.