Interesting card. I'm sure this will come up in discussion (or already has), but I'm assuming the 1GWU ability will circumvent how many times this card has re-entered the commander zone (e.g. not having to pay 2 extra mana each time he returns to the commander zone).
I was working on this Bant Blink deck, and was only missing a commander (I didn't like how none of the current Bant commanders reward blinking.) I was hoping the new Commander product would bring one, but the trend of having an effect based on the mana to cast them didn't bode well for me... But this Derevi fellow is exactly what I was looking for!
I just hope the commander new cards are not all commander referencing cards. I love me some multiplayer magic and the last commander decks gave me some very fun cards without being forced to play a format that I personally hate.
It seems like people think that she reads, "Whenever any creature enters the Battlefield, untap target permanent." Not so, only her. Other than that, you have to deal combat damage. She is good, but not format warping good.
I believe you would still use that word because shouting "broken" is easier than thinking and waiting.
Card is fine. Period.
Without having a personal opinion on the matter either way, the best evidence we have (have not read other threads) comes from Perfekt in post 79 of this thread. He has tested it and says about the card in relation to French that:
"This thing is gonna be Tier 1 in Duel commander for sure."
It seems that this would at least be somewhere in the realms of a common definition of broken. And even though it might be wrong, it is easily better evidence than the rantings of a guy hangs out in the EDH forums looking for any opportunity to rave and be antisocial, when bystanders are just trying to have fun.
Cheers
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You colonization of language is not appreciated.
Without having a personal opinion on the matter either way, the best evidence we have (have not read other threads) comes from Perfekt in post 79 of this thread. He has tested it and says about the card in relation to French that:
"This thing is gonna be Tier 1 in Duel commander for sure."
It seems that this would at least be somewhere in the realms of a common definition of broken. And even though it might be wrong, it is easily better evidence than the rantings of a guy hangs out in the EDH forums looking for any opportunity to rave and be antisocial, when bystanders are just trying to have fun.
Cheers
Tier 1 in duel commander = broken in regular? Do you play EDH? Because that is nowhere near the "common definition of broken".
But hey, I'm just an antisocial guy who hangs out in the EDH forums and rants so what do I know.
While we are here, perhaps you could enlighten us on your definition of the word "broken".
Generally I'd consider "broken" to be format warping. Now you can argue that it's kind of vague, but a potential tier one in an odd EDH variant does not make a card even remotely good in regular EDH. People are far too eager to jump and claim a card is going to ruin everything instead of sitting back and playing with it. It happens in every format and it's equally silly there.
How is it relevant that the initial quote is format specific? Are you suggesting the EDH designed legend shall be breaking into Legacy and Vintage? I think we need to live in reality if we want to attempt to have a serious discussion about the card.
But seeing as you use your signature to call people morons I'm not sure I enjoy speaking with you.
Breaking fundamental rules of the format does not make a good or interesting card. The design is lazy if they wanted to give it Flash and make it uncounterable they should have just given it those abilities.
How is it relevant that the initial quote is format specific? Are you suggesting the EDH designed legend shall be breaking into Legacy and Vintage? I think we need to live in reality if we want to attempt to have a serious discussion about the card.
The initial post is NOT format specific, thats the point. We have a small amount of empirical evidence that the card is going to be VERY good in a specific format. In this context, the post that started this seems fairly reasonable, and certainly not something that ought to have been jumped upon.
But seeing as you use your signature to call people morons I'm not sure I enjoy speaking with you.
Fair enough, perhaps my sig could be reconsidered (and are you sure none of your posts have similar, better concealed, messages?). And if you wanna use that as your reason to eject from the conversation, fine - I was just getting ready for bed myself.
Fair enough, perhaps my sig could be reconsidered (and are you sure none of your posts have similar, better concealed, messages?). And if you wanna use that as your reason to eject from the conversation, fine - I was just getting ready for bed myself.
He does have those messages, and he is conceited, but that is just Jivan.
His point, though, is still true: this card isn't broken. It has potential to be good, but people keep looking at it wrong. It doesn't grant universal ETB tap/untap (half of the combos in here, it seems like only would work with that), it only does that by itself and when a creature you control deals combat damage. Now, that has potential, but I like Coastal Piracy and Bident of Thassa better.
I happen to agree that this card could be good, but is not broken. Broken means that every deck that could run it, should run it, and this is not that. It is a niche card that can do what it is supposed to do, but not even in a warping way. It is a decently designed Bant card (not a huge fan of the "avoid commander tax" thing).
I mean think about this, in Duel Commander where Zur is king, this has the ability to shut Zur down by coming in uncounterable and flashed, tapping a Zur down for a turn and giving you the opportunity to have an answer. I've tested it vs G/R deck and it was fairly straight forward. I really like using Silverblade Paladin along side it. I feel like Paladin and Edric have been my go to creatures so far in my games. I also think testing Bident might be worth it, especially when you fetch with stoneforger and then toss it into play for 2 more...
French EDH BRGW Saskia the Unyielding BRGW GUWB Thrasios, Triton Hero // Tymna the Weaver GUWB B Braids, Cabal Minion B G Titania, Protector of Argoth G R Zurgo Bellstriker R
Founding Father of [Team Stepfathers]: We beat you and you hate us My Street Art
I mean think about this, in Duel Commander where Zur is king, this has the ability to shut Zur down by coming in uncounterable and flashed, tapping a Zur down for a turn and giving you the opportunity to have an answer. I've tested it vs G/R deck and it was fairly straight forward. I really like using Silverblade Paladin along side it. I feel like Paladin and Edric have been my go to creatures so far in my games. I also think testing Bident might be worth it, especially when you fetch with stoneforger and then toss it into play for 2 more...
definition of broken? format warping? it's not an objective definition: i can say this is broken and format warping, becuase it completely break an EDH's primary rule: the commander tax. and it does that with flash and uncounterability, also. power level is fine, but i still think it's broken because it throws the commander tax rule out of the window.
it's like a card who says "this card need only to deal 15 commander damage to make a player lose instead of the normal 21". maybe that card would still be weaker than rafiq of the many. but i'll still call that broken
And I'd still call your definition of broken incorrect.
The golden rule of magic is that if a card beats a rule the card wins. The game thrives on this.
definition of broken? format warping? it's not an objective definition: i can say this is broken and format warping, becuase it completely break an EDH's primary rule: the commander tax. and it does that with flash and uncounterability, also. power level is fine, but i still think it's broken because it throws the commander tax rule out of the window.
it's like a card who says "this card need only to deal 15 commander damage to make a player lose instead of the normal 21". maybe that card would still be weaker than rafiq of the many. but i'll still call that broken
I gave you a definition of the word broken, apparently you didn't read that far down.
Format warping/goes in every deck/always useful/etc, etc.
This card is good, but I cannot imagine it being as "broken" as you think. Rafiq seems better in Bant, and I don't know a ton of people that call him broken. He is good, but not broken.
definition of broken? format warping? it's not an objective definition: i can say this is broken and format warping, becuase it completely break an EDH's primary rule: the commander tax. and it does that with flash and uncounterability, also. power level is fine, but i still think it's broken because it throws the commander tax rule out of the window.
it's like a card who says "this card need only to deal 15 commander damage to make a player lose instead of the normal 21". maybe that card would still be weaker than rafiq of the many. but i'll still call that broken
I understand where you are coming from, but I think the Magic community's definition of "broken" doesn't apply here. Granted, a case like this would be a better way to define the term "broken". Currently, the term "broken" applies to any card that is format warping, or makes game play unfair and unbalanced.
I'm going to make up a term. Any card that goes against the fundamental rules of the game in a drastic way, such as this, Misthollow Griffin, or Shahrazad, will be deemed "wrecked". This, of course, could be interpreted in many different ways. Some may say that Time Warp, or even Fog is "wrecked". It's all a matter of perspective.
you cant break something if its indestructible
Seems like a fun card!
I was working on this Bant Blink deck, and was only missing a commander (I didn't like how none of the current Bant commanders reward blinking.) I was hoping the new Commander product would bring one, but the trend of having an effect based on the mana to cast them didn't bode well for me... But this Derevi fellow is exactly what I was looking for!
I believe you would still use that word because shouting "broken" is easier than thinking and waiting.
Card is fine. Period.
MTGS egos at their finest.
Thoughts on proxies:
Without having a personal opinion on the matter either way, the best evidence we have (have not read other threads) comes from Perfekt in post 79 of this thread. He has tested it and says about the card in relation to French that:
"This thing is gonna be Tier 1 in Duel commander for sure."
It seems that this would at least be somewhere in the realms of a common definition of broken. And even though it might be wrong, it is easily better evidence than the rantings of a guy hangs out in the EDH forums looking for any opportunity to rave and be antisocial, when bystanders are just trying to have fun.
Cheers
You colonization of language is not appreciated.
Tier 1 in duel commander = broken in regular? Do you play EDH? Because that is nowhere near the "common definition of broken".
But hey, I'm just an antisocial guy who hangs out in the EDH forums and rants so what do I know.
The original quote that started it:
Your reply
Please note the absence of the original quote being format specific.
While we are here, perhaps you could enlighten us on your definition of the word "broken".
Cheers
You colonization of language is not appreciated.
Generally I'd consider "broken" to be format warping. Now you can argue that it's kind of vague, but a potential tier one in an odd EDH variant does not make a card even remotely good in regular EDH. People are far too eager to jump and claim a card is going to ruin everything instead of sitting back and playing with it. It happens in every format and it's equally silly there.
How is it relevant that the initial quote is format specific? Are you suggesting the EDH designed legend shall be breaking into Legacy and Vintage? I think we need to live in reality if we want to attempt to have a serious discussion about the card.
But seeing as you use your signature to call people morons I'm not sure I enjoy speaking with you.
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The initial post is NOT format specific, thats the point. We have a small amount of empirical evidence that the card is going to be VERY good in a specific format. In this context, the post that started this seems fairly reasonable, and certainly not something that ought to have been jumped upon.
Fair enough, perhaps my sig could be reconsidered (and are you sure none of your posts have similar, better concealed, messages?). And if you wanna use that as your reason to eject from the conversation, fine - I was just getting ready for bed myself.
Cheers
You colonization of language is not appreciated.
I like it any card that make use of the extra design space found in commander.
Thread | Draft
He does have those messages, and he is conceited, but that is just Jivan.
His point, though, is still true: this card isn't broken. It has potential to be good, but people keep looking at it wrong. It doesn't grant universal ETB tap/untap (half of the combos in here, it seems like only would work with that), it only does that by itself and when a creature you control deals combat damage. Now, that has potential, but I like Coastal Piracy and Bident of Thassa better.
I happen to agree that this card could be good, but is not broken. Broken means that every deck that could run it, should run it, and this is not that. It is a niche card that can do what it is supposed to do, but not even in a warping way. It is a decently designed Bant card (not a huge fan of the "avoid commander tax" thing).
MTGS egos at their finest.
Thoughts on proxies:
BRGW Saskia the Unyielding BRGW
GUWB Thrasios, Triton Hero // Tymna the Weaver GUWB
B Braids, Cabal Minion B
G Titania, Protector of Argoth G
R Zurgo Bellstriker R
Founding Father of [Team Stepfathers]: We beat you and you hate us
My Street Art
I assume you mean Bident of Thassa and Stoneforge Mystic. If so, you can't fetch the Bident with Stoneforge.
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And I'd still call your definition of broken incorrect.
The golden rule of magic is that if a card beats a rule the card wins. The game thrives on this.
I gave you a definition of the word broken, apparently you didn't read that far down.
Format warping/goes in every deck/always useful/etc, etc.
This card is good, but I cannot imagine it being as "broken" as you think. Rafiq seems better in Bant, and I don't know a ton of people that call him broken. He is good, but not broken.
MTGS egos at their finest.
Thoughts on proxies:
I understand where you are coming from, but I think the Magic community's definition of "broken" doesn't apply here. Granted, a case like this would be a better way to define the term "broken". Currently, the term "broken" applies to any card that is format warping, or makes game play unfair and unbalanced.
I'm going to make up a term. Any card that goes against the fundamental rules of the game in a drastic way, such as this, Misthollow Griffin, or Shahrazad, will be deemed "wrecked". This, of course, could be interpreted in many different ways. Some may say that Time Warp, or even Fog is "wrecked". It's all a matter of perspective.
PucaTrade Invite. Sign up and enjoy the first 500 points ($5) free!